Folding Bikes - Downtube folding bike

I did not go with a 9sp at first due to cost. I'd love to swap over now if I had a choice. However, just last week I was told 9sp components would not be available.

I hope they will be available in January, if so I will spec them on the Downtube IX.

Thanks,
Yan


I'm curious - is there a reason that the current models couldn't hold a 9 speed rear drivetrain now? I'm sure cost is a factor; it seems like 8 speed stuff is fairly cheaper than that. But I've also heard that chainline becomes more of an issue on a folder because of reduced wheelbase, and also it's a real 8 speed drivetrain, whereas in most bikes only 7 of the 8 speeds would be recommended for each chainring.

I guess the current freehub will hold a 9 speed cassette since they're the same size as an 8 speed.

Which chain are you spec'ing for use with 9 speeds? Something more bendy than normal? I've read the SRAM chains are a bit noisier than the shimano (9 speed) chains, implying that some chains are a bit better suited for bending than others.

Af, I wasn't in doubt about the cassette replacement (assuming that a normal freehub is in use here). It's the narrow wheelbase that can make this very challenging (not as much lateral distance over which the chain can bend).

If I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly, your concern has to do with greater distance between smallest and largest cog in a 9-speed cassette versus and 8-speed - with a short wheelbase the chain off-axis angle is greater.

I *think* it's the same cassette width so as long as an 8-speed work vis-a-vis chain angle, a 9-would be identical - it just packs more cogs in the same space.

Am I off base with any of that?

If I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly, your concern has to do with greater distance between smallest and largest cog in a 9-speed cassette versus and 8-speed - with a short wheelbase the

Yes, the cassette is identically wide for 8sp and 9 speed. I've just read that others had had problems in well estimating number of usable gears in small wheelbase (is there a better word for rear_hub-BB distance?) applications, which would explain well why so many folders seem to be 5-6-7 speed and not 9 speed (ie. Dahon Boardwalk 7 speed).

There is indeed a bit greater bend in the extremes of the individual cogs, because each cog is a bit narrower. So while the left side of the chain is laterally as far left on the big cog for 8sp/9sp, the right side of it is a fraction of a millimeter further left. Imagining decreasing the wheelbase to an arbitrarily small value where it's obvious that the chain couldn't bend well means that somewhere between this value and a normal bike wheelbase is where a difficulty will arise.

But, as Yan has just posted, apparently there isn't an issue since that wasn't the reason for not including 9 speed. Perhaps on a bit smaller folder. FYI - I had read this in regard to mods people had used for trying to do a derailleur solution on 16" bikes (where you rarely do seem to see a multispeed derailleur, but instead a flat chainline and internal speed hub).

I did not go with a 9sp at first due to cost. I'd love to swap over now if I had a choice. However, just last week I was told 9sp components would not be available.


Well, thanks to your design using more standardized parts, one can "upgrade" their drivetrain to 9speed for minimal cost (no more than $40-50, assuming that the rear derailleur might not complain too much). Personally, I don't mind being "limited" with the 8 speeds. The overall ratio is what's most important to me, and that's really quite ample. One can even go further with the 11-34 cassettes (originally spec'ed as 11-28) to get an extra 55% gear range (309% vs. 254%), also assuming that the shipped derailleur's cage is adequate (capacity won't be an issue for lack of front rings, but perhaps max difference since the spec'd cassette appears more road like). I've run a road bike with a long cage mtn rear derailleur in this setup for a while and like the low gearing at times (only 2 rings in front). Wonder if a really long derailleur cage on the 20" wheels would actually hit the ground..

This flexibility precisely what I've been looking for in a folder design. And I'll be looking forward to playing with my new one - I just bought a VIII online.

Hi Chris,

The included bag is terrific, made well, and the bike fits in easily for me.

Bruce
How on Earth did you get the bike to fit in the bag! I picked up my DT VIII today, and neither I, nor the woman who showed me how to fold/unfold the bike could get it entirely in the bag. We were able to zip on both sides, but the squarish metal bar on the bottom of the bike (sort of like a stand, but not the kick stand) kept us from completely zipping the bag. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

jpscunil: try flipping the bike upside-down or "slide" the bag onto the bike so the zipper is on the bottom before closing it.

Just suggesting that because of this pic: http://www.downtube.com/images/Bikes_7-14/BikeinBag.jpg

Which shows the stand you're referring to on the zipper side of the bag. :)

jpscunil: try flipping the bike upside-down or "slide" the bag onto the bike so the zipper is on the bottom before closing it.

Just suggesting that because of this pic: http://www.downtube.com/images/Bikes_7-14/BikeinBag.jpg

Which shows the stand you're referring to on the zipper side of the bag. :)

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried one more time and finally got it right. The Downtube person left the seat on, but took the handle bars off. She said she is able to leave the seat on with her VIII FS. As it turns out, the seat comes off and the handle bars stay on! Too bad, because it's tough getting that seat off. I may do what someone on one of the posts suggested: cut an inch off the post so the seat does not have to be removed. I've had this bike less than 12 hours, and I love it already! \

BTW, it is easiest to leave the bike right side up, and put the cover over the bike, then turn the bike upside down - the zipper is then on top.

I did not go with a 9sp at first due to cost. I'd love to swap over now if I had a choice. However, just last week I was told 9sp components would not be available.

I hope they will be available in January, if so I will spec them on the Downtube IX.

Thanks,
Yan

Hi Yan!

Hi Downtubers!!

Still really enjoying my VIIIFS.. here's a couple of pics showing my update over the weekend. First time for me for anything like this... I laced up the 8spd Shimano Nexus 'red band' to an Alex16 rim. Very cool to ride... Slick and quiet.. easy to do with the horizontal dropouts. The Nexus has a 307% overall gear ratio...about the same as a 9spd mega-range 11-34...

Bruce

ps for Yan... I could use a couple more of those seatpost shims....thanks!

dangit! you beat me to the punch! as you know, I had the same idea for my downtube viii, but I am afraid the vertical dropouts make it a far less appealing idea. may still try it with a singleator or some such jury-rigging, but yours looks great!

Nice back wheel! Good job on the lacing. How many spokes and how long did the lacing take start to finish?

Still really enjoying my VIIIFS.. here's a couple of pics showing my update over the weekend. First time for me for anything like this... I laced up the 8spd Shimano Nexus 'red band' to an Alex16 rim. Very cool to ride... Slick and quiet.. easy to do with the horizontal dropouts. The Nexus has a 307% overall gear ratio...about the same as a 9spd mega-range 11-34...

Bruce

Bruce,
I was thinking of converting my VIIIFS into a fixed gear, but since the hinge of the rear suspension arm is not at the bottom bracket I fear that every time I hit a bump it is going to mess up the chain tension or throw the chain. How is the chain tension holding up for you, since you don't run any chain tensioner?

Nice back wheel! Good job on the lacing. How many spokes and how long did the lacing take start to finish?

Yo Vince, Thanks!... I know this kind of thing is 'old hat' for many on the list, but for me it was exciting. The Nexus hub is a 36 hole unit. So I picked the Alex DA-16 Aero rim, 1.8mm spokes laced 2x and at the moment, running a Kenda Kwest 20x1.5 100psi. I'm sure it took me way too long, and my hat is off to all those who charge $30 or $40 bucks to build wheels, but I started on Sunday afternoon and probably spent a solid 4hrs on it by the time it was trued. I let it sit overnight and checked tension again and then mounted it to the bike on Monday night. The only snag was the new supplied shift cable was surprisingly about 4" shorter than my stock one, so I had to run down to Performance and spend $2.50 on a longer cable. I wasn't pressed for time, so I took a lot of it...haha

Bruce

Bruce,
I was thinking of converting my VIIIFS into a fixed gear, but since the hinge of the rear suspension arm is not at the bottom bracket I fear that every time I hit a bump it is going to mess up the chain tension or throw the chain. How is the chain tension holding up for you, since you don't run any chain tensioner?

Hi Rincewind8,

When I set up the chain tension initially, I loaded the rear suspension first, set what I considered nomal tension and that was it. It does tend to tighten when suspension is compressed, so if you set it tight unloaded, it will be too tight when ridden. Just came back from my 10mi lunch run and it worked perfect. The shifting is very smooth and the hub surprisingly quiet in any gear. I jumped a few curbs for grins and didn't loose the chain. I can't see how it would, but my impending trail riding should be a good test. I don't know how critical chain tension is on a fixed gear bike, but worse case scenario, a tensioner could be added.

Bruce

Where did you buy the Nexus-8? Price? Any feelings of inefficiencies with it?

That's cool!

That is cool. Now, any imput on those working with a 7s cassete and derailleur at the same time?

Your bike looks awesome by the way!

That is cool. Now, any imput on those working with a 7s cassete and derailleur at the same time?


What do you mean- Input on building a wheel around a normal freehub rear hub?

That is cool. Now, any imput on those working with a 7s cassete and derailleur at the same time?

Your bike looks awesome by the way!

you need a sram 3x9 for that. I've got one on a dahon and (and a sachs 3x7 on my bike friday.) gives an impressive range of gears. sheldon brown has converted standard geared hub to work with a cassette, but it requires a bit of work.
http://www.sram.com/en/sram/comfort/dualdrive/dualdrive24/hubcassette.php

No, sorry for my lack of details:

My curiosity is around a geared hub (speed hub) used simultaneously with a regular 6,7,8 or 9 speed cassete.

Without a front derailleur, you can still reach 126 gears (14rohloff x9speed cassete).

My bike cannot fit a front derailleur, so I may consider in the future a speed hub if that is do-able (if I can get it and keep the current 7 speeds that I have)

Thank you,

Rafael

Without a front derailleur, you can still reach 126 gears (14rohloff x9speed cassete).

Why do you need 126 gears? Or anything close to that? Are you trying to set a speed record and pull a 500lb trailer with the same bike? :eek:

No, sorry for my lack of details:

My curiosity is around a geared hub (speed hub) used simultaneously with a regular 6,7,8 or 9 speed cassete.

Without a front derailleur, you can still reach 126 gears (14rohloff x9speed cassete).

My bike cannot fit a front derailleur, so I may consider in the future a speed hub if that is do-able (if I can get it and keep the current 7 speeds that I have)

Thank you,

Rafael

Rafael, you want a SRAM DualDrive (http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/COMPHUINT/HU2591) This hub came standard on my Dahon SpeedPro and also the Speed TR and is used on many Bike Friday configs as well as a host of others ... it is an awesome solution for small wheeled bikes that spend most all there time on pavement. Especially good for touring as it employs a mega gear range for climbing or pedaling those 35+mph downhills. I've had zero problems with mine.

Bruce

Where did you buy the Nexus-8? Price? Any feelings of inefficiencies with it?

That's cool!

It was $166.95 and I bought it retail online from BikeMan (http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/COMPHUINT/HU7860). Their service was excellent and has continued to be as I've purchased other things also.

I don't find the Nexus inefficient. Actually, the opposite. It shifts smooth, the chainline is always straight, it's pretty quiet, the ratios are nice and you can tailor the overall gear ratio with easily replaceable sprockets from 13t to 21t. In the last couple of days of riding, it is faster than before, but I attribute that in part to the 100psi Kenda Kwest on the rear. It does weigh a little more than the stock wheel/derailleur setup, but the extra mass is at least in the best place possible, in the center of the wheel.

Bruce

That is what I was considering actually.

I have a trip to south america (already scheduled for this december) that will be my final test for the current configuration of my bike. If I feel the need of more gears (either low or high) my only solution is a hub, and the SRAM dualdrive is one of my options.

Now, the 3 gears that it brings to the bike, are those low-equal-high compared to a non-geared hub or Super-low/low/still-low or high/higher/highest?

In other words, will it increase my range or just increase my number of gears in one direction (low or high).

Thank you,

Rafael

That is what I was considering actually.

I have a trip to south america (already scheduled for this december) that will be my final test for the current configuration of my bike. If I feel the need of more gears (either low or high) my only solution is a hub, and the SRAM dualdrive is one of my options.

Now, the 3 gears that it brings to the bike, are those low-equal-high compared to a non-geared hub or Super-low/low/still-low or high/higher/highest?

In other words, will it increase my range or just increase my number of gears in one direction (low or high).

Thank you,

Rafael

The Dual Drive 3spd hub is: Low (underdrive) Middle (direct drive) and High (overdrive)..you can play with some online gear calculators to find a 'gear inches' range that would suit you. The overall range of even the 7x3 21 speed is over 500%.

One more option, although not inexpensive is a SpeedDrive (http://schlumpf.ch/sd_engl.htm). I have one of these going into a Jet XP when I get the time.. They are terrific, Swiss made, and another solution for extending the gear range of a single chainring bike.

Bruce

Why do you need 126 gears? Or anything close to that? Are you trying to set a speed record and pull a 500lb trailer with the same bike? :eek:


Not really! I just live in Florida (still looking for a place on earth as flat as Florida) and mainly use the bike inside an University campus and as a recreational vehicle (50 miles a week at most). for these purposes, the bike is actually almost perfect ( a little low geared if I get picky).

However, I travel at least once a year to Brazil, where climbing mountains is a common practice. Since the idea is to have my bike as my only bike, I am just trying to expand my gear option.

I don't have a front derailleur, so I would never reach 100+ gears. All I need is some way to compensate the lack of 2 chainrings. Seems like a geared hub is a good option...I am just refining my research about it.

Besides the options mentioned here, is there anything else that can be done? (budget aprox US200.00)

Rafael

Well Rafael i was thinking about just using a Sturmey Archer 3 or 5 speed (cheap as NOS) and a triple front chain ring... Is this even possible, and especially is it possible on a folder? The range wouldn't be massive and the gears wouldn't be loads but enough for quite a lot of applications. Plus it would be cheap & durable i guess. But maybe it is totally unworkable? I don't know.

One more option, although not inexpensive is a SpeedDrive (http://schlumpf.ch/sd_engl.htm). I have one of these going into a Jet XP when I get the time.. They are terrific, Swiss made, and another solution for extending the gear range of a single chainring bike.

Bruce

I'm really curious about these. Have you actually tried them out? Is it as easy to shift as the website suggests? If so, it seems like a perfect (though expensive) solution for Folders, being able to get rid of the cables, and only needing a single chainring. If you're able to take a picture of the conversion once it's done, it would be great to see.

Shilun

...i was thinking about just using a Sturmey Archer 3 or 5 speed (cheap as NOS) and a triple front chain ring...

Are you considering a triple front chan ring for your Halfway RS? Please let me know if this is possible. Maybe it's even cheaper than the hub option.

Rafael

I don't have a front derailleur, so I would never reach 100+ gears. All I need is some way to compensate the lack of 2 chainrings. Seems like a geared hub is a good option...I am just refining my research about it.

Besides the options mentioned here, is there anything else that can be done? (budget aprox US200.00)
A not ideal but pretty cheap option would be to change the crank set to a (used to make it cheaper) dual chain ring crank set and "shift" by hand. Since you already mentioned that you think it is a little undergeared, you could use a little larger chain ring as your usual chain ring with which you still can tackle short inclines. If however you encounter a long incline you could stop and "shift" to the climbing chain ring.
I changed the crank set to a dual crankset, but never used the small chain ring. I mainly wanted a bigger front chain ring and haven't taken of the small front chain ring because the crank bolts would be too long to just attach one chain ring to the crank. :)

@ Rafael. i don't own a Halfway...? Just my Twenty. And i really have not inkling of a clue whether what i want to try someday works.

As for "manual shifitng" on a dual chain ring.. That does mean a derrallieur in the back i presume, otherwise don't you totally mess with your chain tension?

@Wind8: I actually managed to switch from big chainring to small chainring using my food against the wheel in a competition before!

@V1nce: Sorry vince, I mixed your post with Shilun's, the other guy from this forum that has a halfway RS. My bad!

So far, as soon as I get back from Brazil, my options are The Dual Drive 3spd hub and Shimanos 7 or 8 speed similar.

Rafael

That Speeddrive seems intriguing. Anyone know what kind of durability we are talking about? Also will it work with odd brackets such as the 26 TPI (rather than 24) BB shell in a Raleigh Twenty. To get a good range one must still combine the SpeedDrive with a 3 (or more) speed hub correct?

I'm really curious about these. Have you actually tried them out? Is it as easy to shift as the website suggests? If so, it seems like a perfect (though expensive) solution for Folders, being able to get rid of the cables, and only needing a single chainring. If you're able to take a picture of the conversion once it's done, it would be great to see.

Shilun

I have one on a Dahon Helios XX.. I like it so much another is going on an XP.. You see them used on Recumbents and HPVs. They can be installed on steel or aluminum bottom brackets of 67-73mm widths and 33.6-34.5mm diameters. It's appears to be made really well, uses standard 110mm chainrings, and I haven't had any problems. It shifts very easily, and there are flat 'extenders' available cheap that run along the crank arm if you want it even easier. For a folder, you'd want the 'SpeedDrive' with a 1.6:1 overdrive or possibly the 'High Speed Drive" with a 2.5:1 overdrive. A 'Mountain Drive' is available, but that is a 2.5:1 underdrive. Attached are a couple of quickie pics.

Bruce

Yan, any ideas on where to find a 550mm 27.2 seatpost for the Downtube? Would a design be possible that's similar to the other telescoping models out there, so that the seatpost could be dropped all the way down and not protrude too high from the folded frame?

Or is there such a thing as an adapter onto which the seat could sit to give it a bit more height? It would have rails like a normal seat, be grabbed by the clamps on the normal seatpost, and then have clamps for the desired saddle.

Thanks,

I have one on a Dahon Helios XX.. I like it so much another is going on an XP.. You see them used on Recumbents and HPVs. They can be installed on steel or aluminum bottom brackets of 67-73mm widths and 33.6-34.5mm diameters. It's appears to be made really well, uses standard 110mm chainrings, and I haven't had any problems. It shifts very easily, and there are flat 'extenders' available cheap that run along the crank arm if you want it even easier. For a folder, you'd want the 'SpeedDrive' with a 1.6:1 overdrive or possibly the 'High Speed Drive" with a 2.5:1 overdrive. A 'Mountain Drive' is available, but that is a 2.5:1 underdrive. Attached are a couple of quickie pics.

Bruce

Thanks for the pictures. What range of gearing does that give you? [Could you use inches as I'm a little behind the times on these kind of things]

Shilun

Thanks for the pictures. What range of gearing does that give you? [Could you use inches as I'm a little behind the times on these kind of things]

Shilun

As an example, using a 490mm wheel, 44t chainring, 11-34 cassette, you would get a 509% overall range with 24 to 127 gear inches.... that's huge! About the same as a Rohloff hub or a SRAM Dual Drive. Personally, I reduce the cassette range and would jockey the chainring number to get me closer to 115 gear inches at the top.

Bruce

Bruce,

It seems that you had access to a lot of different things, so le me ask you this:

Comparing the Sram dual drive with not having anything at all (besides a rear derailleur), what is your opinion about the "dragging" factor?

I read several threads after a search in these forums and, so far, there are a few comments like "it feels like there is a full bottle of water inside my wheel" or "I will never have gear hubs again".

The main reason I started investing on upgrades is a (now gone) "dragging" feeling that I was having, mainly due to por psi and low gear range. Would be horrible to compromise the almost perfect situation that I have now with another high investment.

Still on the same topic, how much would cost the entire SRAM Dual drive mod? (derailleur, cassete, hub, shifter and instalation). Just to have an idea...

Rafael

Bump

Bruce: is US$340.00 for dual drive system (SRAM 3x9 + Megarange Cassette + shifter + Box +megarange compatible derailleur) fully installed a decent price?

My roomate got his Downtube FS today by the way...I'll see if I can put some miles on it tomorrow but so far it is a confortable ride! May get one for me.

Rafael.

Bump

Bruce: is US$340.00 for dual drive system (SRAM 3x9 + Megarange Cassette + shifter + Box +megarange compatible derailleur) fully installed a decent price?

My roomate got his Downtube FS today by the way...I'll see if I can put some miles on it tomorrow but so far it is a confortable ride! May get one for me.

Rafael.

Sure, if all parts are new....a new wheel has to be built, so a few hours could be tied up with the whole installation..

Nice way to go, DualDrive's are really a top choice for extending gear range on small wheeled bikes, and I certainly like the one on my SpeedPro.

One cheap way (not going the used route) is to increase the chainring ($32)... I just put a 58t on my Swift to compliment the 9spd 11-34 cassette... this effectively gives me a 10t top gear (approx 105 gear inch) and is just right for me for pedaling at 30mph (conditions optimum) and this change only went from a 30" to 32" on the bottom (where I don't spend much time)..

Bruce

Thank you. I got 54T on the front and anything bigger than that will turn my "sidewalk climbing habits" into something that I need to pay more attention than I desire. :)

Can't wait to have it installed. Now it's time for a downtube ride.

Once again, thank you.

Rafael

I am sorry my supplier is unable to get 550mm posts. I am trying to source them, however it is difficult.

Thanks,
yan


Yan, any ideas on where to find a 550mm 27.2 seatpost for the Downtube? Would a design be possible that's similar to the other telescoping models out there, so that the seatpost could be dropped all the way down and not protrude too high from the folded frame?

Or is there such a thing as an adapter onto which the seat could sit to give it a bit more height? It would have rails like a normal seat, be grabbed by the clamps on the normal seatpost, and then have clamps for the desired saddle.

Thanks,

Bruce,

Bike looks awsome!!! Tell me if you didn't get the shims.

Thanks,
Yan


Hi Yan!

Hi Downtubers!!

Still really enjoying my VIIIFS.. here's a couple of pics showing my update over the weekend. First time for me for anything like this... I laced up the 8spd Shimano Nexus 'red band' to an Alex16 rim. Very cool to ride... Slick and quiet.. easy to do with the horizontal dropouts. The Nexus has a 307% overall gear ratio...about the same as a 9spd mega-range 11-34...

Bruce

ps for Yan... I could use a couple more of those seatpost shims....thanks!

Cool Bike!! :-)

I love the construction, solid welds and simple but distintive logo/font! Great product guys! Also i find the philosophy "Overall, we are very excited about our bikes, in our first month we sold about 150 and sales are increasing. We are able to sell our bikes for less than our competition for several reasons. We design/import/distribute/retail our bikes. This allows for phenominal cost savings which we pass on to our customers. We feel many quality products are overpriced, our goal is assist in making a more efficient market." great.

That is exactly the philosphy i hold/appreciate.

"Kronan" bikes had the same bizz practice and filosophy in the Netherlands for the first few years. As a result they went from a tiny company to selling lots and lots of bikes... Of course then they kinda sold out after a few years and abandoned their filosophy and i think merged/became a regualr company using regular distribution and such. The result was that prices became much higher.

I hope Downtube will never go this way!

If you Downtube guys need a contact or advocate in the Netherlands i am game! The folder market seems to be exploding here.


Thanks for the words of encouragement!!!!

We will never change our philosophy. I own the Downtube and will never sell it....I am not doing this for the money (I teach full time at Coker College in Hartsville, SC). I created the company to help make society more efficient. Thus far I am happy with our progress, and I hope our future will be a bright one. I am currently writing a book defining our business model with a basic implementation. I hope others will carry our ideas to other markets.....we'll see

Thanks,
Yan

Bruce,

Bike looks awsome!!! Tell me if you didn't get the shims.

Thanks,
Yan

Hi Yan!..not only is it looking good, but it is performing even better!!... latest mod was the addition of some MKS Q/R pedals and Powergrips.. this holiday weekend saw my White FS and my girlfriend's Orange FS tossed in the trunk of my Alfa sedan for a 4day trip to the beaches and bike paths of central California.. both bikes worked great.. the Orange FS really got the positive comments and attention from the other bikers we came in contact with (maybe it was the blonde girlfriend) ...anyway, we were pretty conspicuous in parking lots with bikes hanging off racks and atop cars and there we were pulling two full suspension 8spd folders out of the trunk..haha...had to demo my bike more than once! Only glitch is my gf really, really liked my Nexus hub geared bike, now I may have to build another wheel....

And yes, the parts came in!! Thanks so much!

Bruce

Hi Yan!..not only is it looking good, but it is performing even better!!... latest mod was the addition of some MKS Q/R pedals and Powergrips.. this holiday weekend saw my White FS and my girlfriend's Orange FS tossed in the trunk of my Alfa sedan for a 4day trip to the beaches and bike paths of central California.. both bikes worked great.. the Orange FS really got the positive comments and attention from the other bikers we came in contact with (maybe it was the blonde girlfriend) ...anyway, we were pretty conspicuous in parking lots with bikes hanging off racks and atop cars and there we were pulling two full suspension 8spd folders out of the trunk..haha...had to demo my bike more than once! Only glitch is my gf really, really liked my Nexus hub geared bike, now I may have to build another wheel....

And yes, the parts came in!! Thanks so much!

Bruce

FYI I will have some Sturmey Archer internal 8sp bikes next year...thanks for the idea!

Yan

Yan, if you're taking requests for bike features, I'd like to see something that folds really small, ala Brompton, and still uses off the shelf parts, and has the value you've integrated into the Downtube. That would be the market killer.


FYI I will have some Sturmey Archer internal 8sp bikes next year...thanks for the idea!

Yan,

Do you have the rear rack for the full Suspension bike Available? Pictures?

I need 2 of those ASAP (going to Brazil December 19th).

@ Yan. It would be cool if you could look into the S-Ram 7 speed hub rather than the Shimano 8 Speed.

Reasons (most subject to debate of course so guys please correct when i am wrong):

1. The S-ram may have one gear less but i gather the range is considerably greater despite this.

2. If have understood from various LBS shops i trust that the Shimano is very very complicated to repair (impossible for the person tinkering at home) and that if you want replacement parts Shimano doesn't sell little seperate parts. They only sell entire hubs or 3 or four different assemblies/units each one being about half the price of an entire new hub! Now it it true that with a little care and luck hubs rarely need service. But the contrast with the S-Ram is great, according to the LBS (and they actually sell way more Shimano units) the S-Ram can be fixed almost with your eyes closed, the parts are available seperately and affordable.

3. I think the S-Ram is (a lot) cheaper. Also Shimano is a mega-corporation while S-Ram is kindoff a old timer that got nearly wiped out but now is an upstart that is taking on the giant shimano. I like their innovation and prices. Lastly i understand from many Shimano users (even fans) that over the years Shimano's quality has suffered. Mostly in derallieurs, they seem to have build in obsolesence. I could be wrong but i think Shimano now owns and produces Sturmey Archer 3 speed hubs and people say that the old hubs (before Shimano) are (much) better quality despite being the same design.

Lastly S-Ram is coming out with a 9 speed soon (heard this on these boards) which could be a good option too.

@ Yan. It would be cool if you could look into the S-Ram 7 speed hub rather than the Shimano 8 Speed.

Reasons (most subject to debate of course so guys please correct when i am wrong):

1. The S-ram may have one gear less but i gather the range is considerably greater despite this.

2. If have understood from various LBS shops i trust that the Shimano is very very complicated to repair (impossible for the person tinkering at home) and that if you want replacement parts Shimano doesn't sell little seperate parts. They only sell entire hubs or 3 or four different assemblies/units each one being about half the price of an entire new hub! Now it it true that with a little care and luck hubs rarely need service. But the contrast with the S-Ram is great, according to the LBS (and they actually sell way more Shimano units) the S-Ram can be fixed almost with your eyes closed, the parts are available seperately and affordable.

3. I think the S-Ram is (a lot) cheaper. Also Shimano is a mega-corporation while S-Ram is kindoff a old timer that got nearly wiped out but now is an upstart that is taking on the giant shimano. I like their innovation and prices. Lastly i understand from many Shimano users (even fans) that over the years Shimano's quality has suffered. Mostly in derallieurs, they seem to have build in obsolesence. I could be wrong but i think Shimano now owns and produces Sturmey Archer 3 speed hubs and people say that the old hubs (before Shimano) are (much) better quality despite being the same design.

Lastly S-Ram is coming out with a 9 speed soon (heard this on these boards) which could be a good option too.

Yo Vince, good points. here's some more observations.

Yan mentioned using the Sturmey 8spd, not the Shimano on selected Downtube bikes.

The gear range of the new Shimano Nexus 8 is 307%....the SRAM 7 is 303%... the Shimano obviously has a closer gear ratio spacing in addition to wider overall gear range.

The Nexus 8 is over 150g lighter than the SRAM 7

The Nexus (locally)with shifter is $46 (US) more than the SRAM 7

Sunrace has Sturmey now, not Shimano.

I don't know anything about the parts availability of either unit in the US because I haven't needed to find out yet. My Nexus unit is performing great, but anything could happen.

The SRAM unit also has an external 'click box' for shifting which protrudes beyond the dropouts and is potentially vulnerable to impacts... on my DualDrive, I haven't seen any problems with this, but I also don't go trailing with it (which I do with my Nexus 8 hubbed Downtube FS). The Shimano unit has all shifting mechanism within the rear dropouts.

I am looking forward to any new offering in the hubgear arena, the SRAM 9 looks interesting, but for now, I'm building a second wheel with the Shimano hub.

Bruce

We are working on it, no timetable yet.

Thanks,
Yan


Yan, if you're taking requests for bike features, I'd like to see something that folds really small, ala Brompton, and still uses off the shelf parts, and has the value you've integrated into the Downtube. That would be the market killer.

I have chosen to go with a Sturmey Archer on the VIII bike. We will not have any FS internal hub bikes this year. My main reason for going with Sturmey Archer is:

1. 8sp
2. 305% gear ratio (303% SRAM )
3. Made by Sun Race a great fast growing company.
4. Price!

Thanks,
Yan


@ Yan. It would be cool if you could look into the S-Ram 7 speed hub rather than the Shimano 8 Speed.
Reasons (most subject to debate of course so guys please correct when i am wrong):

1. The S-ram may have one gear less but i gather the range is considerably greater despite this.

2. If have understood from various LBS shops i trust that the Shimano is very very complicated to repair (impossible for the person tinkering at home) and that if you want replacement parts Shimano doesn't sell little seperate parts. They only sell entire hubs or 3 or four different assemblies/units each one being about half the price of an entire new hub! Now it it true that with a little care and luck hubs rarely need service. But the contrast with the S-Ram is great, according to the LBS (and they actually sell way more Shimano units) the S-Ram can be fixed almost with your eyes closed, the parts are available seperately and affordable.

3. I think the S-Ram is (a lot) cheaper. Also Shimano is a mega-corporation while S-Ram is kindoff a old timer that got nearly wiped out but now is an upstart that is taking on the giant shimano. I like their innovation and prices. Lastly i understand from many Shimano users (even fans) that over the years Shimano's quality has suffered. Mostly in derallieurs, they seem to have build in obsolesence. I could be wrong but i think Shimano now owns and produces Sturmey Archer 3 speed hubs and people say that the old hubs (before Shimano) are (much) better quality despite being the same design.

Lastly S-Ram is coming out with a 9 speed soon (heard this on these boards) which could be a good option too.