Folding Bikes - Downtube folding bike

I just received my Downtube VIIIH, and I have some immediate questions:

Does the front suspension adjust? How? I've never had a suspension bike before. Should it noticably compress/decompress when I get on and off the bike?

Does the bike lock in the folded position?

What is the best method for rolling it when it is folded?

I'm sure there will be other questions... right now I'm off to ride it to work!

Natalie

Hi Nat, Yan will correct me if there's been changes to the models with the new Hub Downtubes, but I think I can safely say:

1. No, suspension does not adjust.

2. No, bike doesn't lock in folded position. Did yours come with a bungie cord? If so, use that. I wrap the bungie from the rack, around the steerer tube, back to the rack.

3. Don't expect it to roll when folded. It's not a Brompton, and while it's *conceivable* that you can get your folded DT rolling along, it won't be easy and it'll tend to fall over on you.

Impressions wanted once you've had a chance to ride it!

Nat,

I got my VIIIH today as well. I had to adjust the shifter by putting it in 4th gear and lining up the yellow dots. After I did that I gave it a good work out and was very pleased.

I also have an IXFS, which I love, and bought the "H" for my wife as the internal hub is less maintenance and easier for her to live with i.e. shifting while sitting still etc.

I was pleased with several things--the luggage rack is very well built, the new pedals are really nice, it rides and handles like a dream, and the 8 speed internal hub is a breeze to use--- it is also nice to not have to worry about a dérailleur hanging down low and getting damaged.

Over all I think this bike will be a winner for Downtube and the people that buy them.

As the previous poster mentioned I don't think it is practical to try to role the bike while folded.

As far as locking in a folded position I went to the hardware store and bought a couple of 1 inch nylon straps approximately 14" long that I use to cinch the wheels together--I like this better that a bungee and they are very light and easy to store.

I hope you enjoy your Downtube as much as I enjoy mine.

Hee hee, betcha I get mine tomorrow! Friday latest! This is gonna be so cool.
~'spin!~
Well, hot, then.

Well, I've been riding it around town, and my first impressions are pretty favorable. It seems solid... a little twitchy compare to my full sized Bianchi. The gearing is sure different! I feel like I'm working harder on this bike, but maybe I"m just out of shape.

I got my first ever "nice bike" comment as I was riding home from work today.

My big concern now is that since I adjusted the hub it's started making noises. Sort of a repeated mechanical rattle when I pedal (it disappears when I coast.) Any ideas?

Well, I've been riding it around town, and my first impressions are pretty favorable. It seems solid... a little twitchy compare to my full sized Bianchi. The gearing is sure different! I feel like I'm working harder on this bike, but maybe I"m just out of shape.

I got my first ever "nice bike" comment as I was riding home from work today.

My big concern now is that since I adjusted the hub it's started making noises. Sort of a repeated mechanical rattle when I pedal (it disappears when I coast.) Any ideas?


Please check if the cable may have changed "shape" after adjustment. Just the other day I adjusted my mini and it seemed out of adjustment within 5min. After a "test" fold the shifter cable physically moved and developed a "bigger" bend at the bottom of the frame and needed to be readjusted.

Additionally, make sure your cable housing is not bent(kinked) from a fold.

I can chat with you on the phone, would you like to talk? Just drop me an email and I will call you.

Thanks,
Yan

bike review:

I am not associated with downtube and not personally familiar with anyone from their organization:

I ordered and received the downtube IX with front suspension from their website. It arrived about a week after the order and was rideable out of the box. The hanger was slightly bent from transit and required tweaking to get good gearing during the recommended visit to a local bike shop.

The gearing is sufficient for a rider of moderate ability and strength to do pretty much anything you might want to do. I tried out hill work that would be average to hilly and the approximately 11-29/52 with the 20 inch wheels to be great for the “ups”. You will probably spin out going down on anything but moderate descents, but no big deal, the bike is heavy and pretty fast and stable.

I bought it to keep up training during a road trip, fits in the trunk of my car, and for 15 -20 mile training rides, its just perfect. Fat seat, rack, yup-even a kick stand, it has all the things that i’d never consider on a serious sport bike. ....for the casual ride and convenience its unbeatable fun! The only upgrade I made was a matching carbon forte water bottle holder, which at $30, is ten percent of the cost of the bike!

For the price of a “middling” wheel set, i got a human powered segway that will give me more range then the electric version and do me more good. The ‘killer app” for the bike will be getting to an area without convenient parking and popping the bike from the trunk and riding away. No racks, no shoes, no chamois, no hassle!

The idea of modifying luggage to fly the bike on trips will be an added bonus.

All in all, both my thumbs way up! Thanks downtube..

bike review:

I am not associated with downtube and not personally familiar with anyone from their organization:

I ordered and received the downtube IX with front suspension from their website. It arrived about a week after the order and was rideable out of the box. The hanger was slightly bent from transit and required tweaking to get good gearing during the recommended visit to a local bike shop.

The gearing is sufficient for a rider of moderate ability and strength to do pretty much anything you might want to do. I tried out hill work that would be average to hilly and the approximately 11-29/52 with the 20 inch wheels to be great for the “ups”. You will probably spin out going down on anything but moderate descents, but no big deal, the bike is heavy and pretty fast and stable.

I bought it to keep up training during a road trip, fits in the trunk of my car, and for 15 -20 mile training rides, its just perfect. Fat seat, rack, yup-even a kick stand, it has all the things that i’d never consider on a serious sport bike. ....for the casual ride and convenience its unbeatable fun! The only upgrade I made was a matching carbon forte water bottle holder, which at $30, is ten percent of the cost of the bike!

For the price of a “middling” wheel set, i got a human powered segway that will give me more range then the electric version and do me more good. The ‘killer app” for the bike will be getting to an area without convenient parking and popping the bike from the trunk and riding away. No racks, no shoes, no chamois, no hassle!

The idea of modifying luggage to fly the bike on trips will be an added bonus.

All in all, both my thumbs way up! Thanks downtube..

Amen, bruddha.

My VIII-H came last week and was ready to ride straight out of the box. Thanks to Yan, I was able to check the shifter alignment - you have to look up at it from below the bike - which was spot-on. I mainly ride it alongside my four-legged domestic partner, who thinks it's the best thing since sliced bologna.

Amen, bruddha.

My VIII-H came last week and was ready to ride straight out of the box. Thanks to Yan, I was able to check the shifter alignment - you have to look up at it from below the bike - which was spot-on. I mainly ride it alongside my four-legged domestic partner, who thinks it's the best thing since sliced bologna.

Hey Woofman! Running my mutt is the exact reason I chose my Downtube FS last year, then modified it with an 8spd Shimano hub... I love the trails and so does he!

Bruce

Would you share with us how you check the shifter alignment?

Tom


Amen, bruddha.

My VIII-H came last week and was ready to ride straight out of the box. Thanks to Yan, I was able to check the shifter alignment - you have to look up at it from below the bike - which was spot-on. I mainly ride it alongside my four-legged domestic partner, who thinks it's the best thing since sliced bologna.

Would you share with us how you check the shifter alignment?

Tom

I copied the below from http://www.sturmey-archer.com/pdfs/XRF8.pdf

2.1 Gear Adjustment
1. Select 4th gear on the shifter.
2. Turn the cable-adjusting screw until
the yellow arrow on the pulley is
aligned within the yellow indicator of
the fulcrum lever. Tighten the
cable-adjusting locknut to locate the
gear changing system.
3. Select 1st gear, rotate the pedal crank,
change back to 4th gear and check the
gear adjustment.
4. Retry the stages description above
when the gear changing is not correct.

Thanks,
Yan

Hey yan, I see that Downtube has a physical store location now. My girlfriend got on my DTVIII the other day; first bike ride in years, and rather likes it. I was describing the difference to her between the various models, and she basically told me that she'd like to try some of them out, and maybe buy one. (I'm tentatively predicting that she'll go with the mini). We're in Jersey, but could maybe make it to PA on a weekend... what are the store hours?

Also, a recommendation for the ebay sales, of course you can take it or leave it:

It's a good idea that you changed the meta in your listings so that they come up when someone searches for "folding bike" or "folding bicycle". I think it's a bad idea, long-term, to include "Dahon" in your descriptions, even if you are saying "It's not a Dahon" or "It's like a Dahon". The DT's may be comparable to Dahons, but it seems like all the el-cheapo folding bikes being hawked on ebay are using this same tactic.... it'll likely lump you in with them, in the minds of people who are doing an ebay search for "Dahon". Also, if you market yourself as being "Like Dahons", it puts your bikes perpetually in their shadow. Even though it may be slower to grow by word of mouth, it doesn't sound like you're hurting for sales, and I think that DT's stand on their own merits pretty darn well.

I personally get tired enough of people who have ebay listings that say "Not Dahon" (an obvious way to insert "dahon" as a word into their listing) that I specifically exclude that phrase from my searches when I'm looking around at folding bikes.

Hey yan, I see that Downtube has a physical store location now. My girlfriend got on my DTVIII the other day; first bike ride in years, and rather likes it. I was describing the difference to her between the various models, and she basically told me that she'd like to try some of them out, and maybe buy one. (I'm tentatively predicting that she'll go with the mini). We're in Jersey, but could maybe make it to PA on a weekend... what are the store hours?

Also, a recommendation for the ebay sales, of course you can take it or leave it:

It's a good idea that you changed the meta in your listings so that they come up when someone searches for "folding bike" or "folding bicycle". I think it's a bad idea, long-term, to include "Dahon" in your descriptions, even if you are saying "It's not a Dahon" or "It's like a Dahon". The DT's may be comparable to Dahons, but it seems like all the el-cheapo folding bikes being hawked on ebay are using this same tactic.... it'll likely lump you in with them, in the minds of people who are doing an ebay search for "Dahon". Also, if you market yourself as being "Like Dahons", it puts your bikes perpetually in their shadow. Even though it may be slower to grow by word of mouth, it doesn't sound like you're hurting for sales, and I think that DT's stand on their own merits pretty darn well.

I personally get tired enough of people who have ebay listings that say "Not Dahon" (an obvious way to insert "dahon" as a word into their listing) that I specifically exclude that phrase from my searches when I'm looking around at folding bikes.


Brian,

I'd love to have you stop by the shop, we are in and out all day (doing shipping) during the week. Weekends we are open 11-3. Please call me at 215-245-4032 before you come. I live 5 min away and would love to see you there.

Thanks for the auction advice. I will change my auctions soon.

Thanks again,
Yan

Hey Yan - received my IX and have put 30 miles on it and it sure is a great little bike, ready to ride right out of the box and almost as fast as my 10 speed and much more comfortable. Two questions for you:
1. Can I get a set of fenders for it if I need them in the future?
2. What is the function of the red ring around the edge of the shifter barrel (on the handlebars) that has a "R" on it and indexes to the words "soft" to "firm"?

Thanks for your great service and great bike!
Will

1. Can I get a set of fenders for it if I need them in the future?
yes, however we don't sell them....too busy shipping bikes


2. What is the function of the red ring around the edge of the shifter barrel (on the handlebars) that has a "R" on it and indexes to the words "soft" to "firm"?
Will
It adjusts the shifter. I like to set it to firm to minimize play.

Thanks,
Yan

Hello Yan,
I would like to get more extension on my mini with my upper body. Do you recommend that I get an adjustable stem like your 20" bikes? What size do I need? Thanks. I love the bike, its small but I think it'll still be a nice ride for a tall stocky guy like myself.

Hello Yan,
I would like to get more extension on my mini with my upper body. Do you recommend that I get an adjustable stem like your 20" bikes? What size do I need? Thanks. I love the bike, its small but I think it'll still be a nice ride for a tall stocky guy like myself.

I recommend trying a high rise bar. A height adjustable stem will ruin the super compact fold.

Thanks,
Yan

I'm interested in a Downtube VIIIH, but understand it uses the older front suspension frame and may not be comfortable for me at 6'2" tall. Yan suggested that there may be someone in St. Louis that has one that I could try. The 2006 1/2 FS has the newer 2" taller frame and would be interested in trying it as well. If you have a DownTube in the St. Louis area, I'd appreciate the opportunity to try a short ride on the bike to see if it will work. Please email or you can also call me at (314) 566-5468 cell.
Thanks
John Lark

The mark of great customer care is how you act when things don't go exactly as planned, and this is where Yan and Downtube really prove themselves. I bought my VIII through ebay a bit over a month ago, and had several niggling problems. Nothing major, but things like a bad pedal bearing and such, and I was getting frustrated. I wrote to Yan, and he was very responsive throughout the process of sorting out the bike, both with advice and with replacing the couple of parts that were faulty. I just wanted to thank Yan publicly for his help and encourage anyone that's on the fence about Downtube (as I was) to give them a shot. I have no affiliation with Downtube, just a happy customer.

sf

YAn,
Is there anyway to stiffen the rear suspension on the mini? Perhaps I can add a stiffer spring or a piece of rubber? It bounces quite a bit and has a pogo stick feel when I ride it. I weigh 175 lbs and am currently modifying the bike frame to fit my 6' frame.

YAn,
Is there anyway to stiffen the rear suspension on the mini? Perhaps I can add a stiffer spring or a piece of rubber? It bounces quite a bit and has a pogo stick feel when I ride it. I weigh 175 lbs and am currently modifying the bike frame to fit my 6' frame.
Not the frame, actually I'm adding a telescoping seat post and longer, adjustable stem. I'll be losing some of it's compact fold for comfort on longer rides, but as long as I can still get it on trains and planes OK, then I'm happy.:)

Not the frame, actually I'm adding a telescoping seat post and longer, adjustable stem. I'll be losing some of it's compact fold for comfort on longer rides, but as long as I can still get it on trains and planes OK, then I'm happy.:)

Try to add a high rise handlebar (instead of the spec'd low rise), it will fold just as compactly and may give you all the space (to streach) that you need. I do not have any other springs for the suspension. I am 200+lbs and I don't believe it is bouncy.

Please tell me your final mods.

Thanks,
Yan

Hello out there! Can anyone tell me more about internal hub gearing verses derailers? The Downtube I want has one and I know nothing about them. Are they reliable? Can they be fixed if I do brake it? Some of their bikes come with but not all. (the ones on ebay don't have) Seems like a cool idea to me. Less to worry about! Thanks!

Hello! Can someone tell me more about internal hub gearing vs derailers? The Downtube I want has one, but the cheeper ones on ebay don't. Are they reliable? Can they be fixed? Is one better for a man vs a lighter woman? Thank you!

Hi Bestmate,

I received my Downtube VIII H a few weeks ago and haven't had time to post. I'm a 115 lb. woman, and I don't think that's at all a factor in the 'vs' question. If you were to read this entire thread, you would find a discussion about the internal hub, as the new VIII H was the first Downtube to have it, and according to Yan, the list price the the Sturmey Archer internal hub is $200 (true), which is why those with it are more expensive. I've had a derailleur all my life and I love the internal hub. None of that long greasy dangly stuff, which on the lower wheeled folder is more vulnerable to damage, and also because of its folding. I like that I can shift gears while at a stop, and it's a real plus when someone decides to shift your gears while you're in a supermarket buying your groceries! :) According to Sturmey Archer its hub is supposed to be maintenance free. From what I've read, its only real downside is its weight but IMO, and apparently many others, a couple of extra pounds is worth it for the convenience.

Hope that's a help,

Anna

I think the major pluses of the internal hub are:

1. low maintenance
2. less chain and stuff hanging out to get gunk all over you
3. Shift at stops
4. Cleaner fold (see #2)
5. Rarely need adjustment
6. No bits sticking out to get broken off if the bike falls over
7. No low hanging parts like a derailleur cage to collect dirt or twigs so chain stays cleaner longer

They tend to be very reliable. The biggest issues used to be they didn’t have such a wide gear range and were slightly less efficient than derailleurs. Those issues have been pretty much addressed in the latest versions. Efficiency is very slightly less on the better hubs and we aren’t talking about bikes used for racing. You might have a 1-2% loss and this is often less than that if you are in the 1:1 ratio. On the SA 8 spd hub on the DT, that is first gear. Other gears will be less efficient.

This is somewhat made up for by the chain isn’t so low to the ground so it doesn’t pick up as much dirt so in some conditions the internal hub may be more efficient unless you chain your chain very often.

I am a super big fan of the modern internal hubs as they have excellent shifting qualities. They shift very well under load though the SA isn’t as good as the Nexus (Shimano). Typically to downshift an internal hub you need to ease up pressure just a bit on the pedals to shift to a lower gear. On the Nexus I haven’t even noticed the need to let up. Try this on a derailleur bike where if you are under a severe load the bike won’t shift at all sometimes.

Most prominent internal hubs from SA, SRAM and Shimano will last a long time. A Rohloff will often go 50,000km (30,000 miles) without any work but changing its oil. So from now on I’ll pretty much buy internal hubs for all my bikes except for a race bike. They are really that good now. The slight weight increase isn’t that huge for me compared to the convenience. If you are leaning toward the internal hub, then spend the few extra dollars and get it!

Lastly it is not a guy or girl thing.

Thanks for improving upon my effort, Wavshdr ... I did my best, honest! ;)

Has anyone else checked out the upgrades someone did to their VIII FS that was posted at the Downtube forum? WOW!

http://www.teos.net/photos/2005DowntubeVIIIFS.jpg (hope s/he doesn't mind me posting it here)

And a link to the details on the upgrades ... http://www.downtube.com/forum/read.php?4,15

I'd love to read what someone more knowledgable about bicycles, like you, thinks about them, but maybe you would post to wskteo ...

Anna

Anna - You did fine. It is a learning process. Most importantly is you enjoy your bike and it has been good to you too. :-)

As for the modified DT they did a nice job on it. That was way too much money to spend on it though. They must have REALLY liked the bike. If I had gone that far I'd have changed the forks too.

I hope you are still enjoying your DT!

Hi I am going to get the dual suspension orange bike. I like the taller frame profile. I am a bike designer and do a lot of bike modding and had some questions about modding the bike a bit:

Here goes: First I want to add cut off/bulhorn bars to the front. Do you think it will still fold?

Then I was wondering if the rear drop outs on the 2006 will accept one of those disc brake adapters? These adpaters convert non disc brake bikes into a disc caompataible bike provided the drop out tabs are fully flat? I have a 20" 8 speed disc wheel from a recumbent tadpole I hacked up a few years back. Any thoughts?

Also on the top screw on the rear shock I want to add an industrial quickrelease ball pin where the top of the rear shock meets the main frame. I am hoping to get it to swing under a bit like a Birdy to condense even smaller when folded.

I was also wondering if the downtube name o nt he frame is a sticker or painted into the bike. I live in the city and any labels on a bike make it more of a stealing target.

Last but not least ad on one of my Gucci fabric seat covers with matching bar tape. Swap the cranks and pedals. And try to put a pump in the seat post for easy access and simply to hide it away.

Anythoughts?

Bars would still probably fold based on how it works in general.

Don't know about the dropouts, stock brakes are pretty good so far.

Screw on the rear shock would be possible if you get the right diameter and adapt the mechanism. Check Xootr and maybe try one of theirs from the scooters. It is REALLY strong as its been on a scooter and supported over 400lbs!

Decals for the name.

Hope that helps.

Picked up a new internal hub model for my son and I am quite pleased with it. First I must say that there are VAST improvements in the overall look and feel of the bike compared to my ’05 model. Yan has definitely up the component specs of a lot of parts and the bike has DEFINITELY moved upscale. I will post a more detailed report later as we get some miles on it.

All I can say is you are sitting on the fence about buying a Downtube you need to snap up one the internal hub ones! So far my ONLY complaints are the rear fender is too short and the gearing is a little tall. So many things are upgraded over the older models I don’t even know where to begin. This bike is definitely a serious player.

I'll give Yan 2 thumbs up for this bike! I'll post a more detailed review in another thread later.

Is that the third Downtube you've bought, Wavshrdr? Did you buy the 20" or 16" internal hub? I'll be looking forward to reading your detailed review. I wrote one (well, okay ... not detailed in your sense of the word ;) and clicked to post and got the message that the server was too busy and lost it. I'll try again now and make a copy before I click to post.

I recently received my Downtube VIIIH and have rarely felt more sure that I'd made the right choice. The Downtube is fabulous! It feels so much trimmer and, of course, lighter than my old lady's Raleigh. Any other folders in any comparable price range were 1 or 3 speed, for example. I might not find all 8 speeds useful that often, but living on a 'mountain', when they are, they are. I also noticed that at least one had the non-adjustable-height handlebars that someone else mentions above. And then there are the other pluses!

The Sturmey Archer twist and click gear shift works so well, and not only the absence of a derailleur, but the ease and stability of shifting is amazing compared to what I've been used to. I discovered a new plus after parking it in front of the supermarket; someone couldn't resist shifting up to 8th with that slick looking shifter while I was shopping - no problem! (Do I remember correctly from my youth or is this the way that 'one speeders' got back at those high and mighty multi-speeders or anyone they were pissed off with - shifting their gears while their bikes were parked?)

It's been mentioned before, but another key reason I went with Downtube over other folders is that someone mentioned that if an unusual bike needed special parts it could make things difficult at times; Downtube uses all standard parts.

Even 'little' things like the well positioned kickstand, simple foam handgrips and nice metal folding pedals add to the overall pleasure of having such a light, compact (fits right in my closet near the front door), great-looking and feeling bike.

The only thing I want to upgrade right now is the seat - to a lady's sprung Brooks ... hopefully sooner, rather than later. (And yes, Wavshrdr, I was wondering about the amount of upgrades that the VIII FS owner did and you'll be impressed that I too wondered about the forks because of something I'd read around here! and yes I am still immensely enjoying my DT and hope to keep enjoying it for a long, long time! :)

I think Montreal is relatively tame wrt bike theft depending upon how, when, where, how often and how long you lock your bike outside and leave it, but, I've been wondering about getting Pitlocks for my front and rear wheels - I hate the feeling of someone stealing any part of my bicycle-friend, not to mention the hassle/expense of replacement. Any comments, O Cycle Gurus of bikeforums.net? The front wheel is quick release, so I think I should at least change that, but I worry about that internal hub - would never want to lose that!! A small plus in that end is that many don't even know what it is yet, it seems from the questions/comments I've received - which are many considering the little time I've had for cycling lately. I'm glad it's easy to say, "Just go to downtube.com!" That's one thing that's surprised me: the amount of attention my bike gets, but then again, Mr. KHS, af895 who also lives in Montreal, has seen only one other folder around here, and I've never seen one at all before my own and didn't know they existed until I started looking into getting at least a lighter bike so that I could lift it more easily to keep it safe inside my home - learning about folders has made this more possible than I ever imagined.

And then there's learning about the ins and outs of various folders, to which I can only thank the wonderful posters here not only for the free intensive education, but also for the Downtube thread which I found here through a Google search and without which I would never have learned about Yan's new little marvels! So a very, very big thank you to you all, and an especially big thank you to Yan who made my dream of a light, good quality folder, with at least 7 speeds, that I could afford come true! :)

Warmest regards,

Anna

Anna, I'm in total agreement with you about the VIII-H. I've had mine a few weeks and love its size and features. The one thing I'd like to do is make it a little bit lighter. Hopefully, Wavshrdr or someone else equally knowledgeable, can make a suggestion or two. I'm guessing that I should start with lighter rims, but maybe I'm wrong.

In regards to locking quick-release skewers: you might also want to check out Veratomic quick-locks (http://www.veratomic.com/phpshop/frame.php?p=1). These are pretty nicely made.

In regards to a Brooks saddle: (1) you will add weight to your bike; (2) it's a target for thieves esp. if they know the value of Brooks; and (3) if you have to lock your bike up, you also better think of a way to secure your seatpost/seat as it is easily removable as a unit and a custom part which is a pain to replace.

Lighter rims won't save much weight.

Anna- I have the Downtube VIIIH like you with the 20" wheels. Yes it is my 3rd DT. I am definitely going to look in changing the gearing a bit. We spent about 15 miles on them today. Truly a nice bike. I really can't say enough about the improvements in general. It is still a little stiff to shift but I think that will improve with time and if not I'll try some lube.

As for upgrading the seat the VIIIH seat is MUCH better than I thought it would be. I don't think you will gain that much over the stock one with a lady's sprung Brooks. As mentioned by SB11 it will add some weight and you CAN'T get it wet once it is broken in. I can't stress this enough. If it rains, keep it covered. It will take some time to break-in but it is worth it.

Glad you are still enjoying it. A good upgrade would be to better tires if you want a nice ride. I'd suggest the Schwalbe Big Apples and they'll go right on the DT and improve your ride and performance. They are great tires and act like you have suspension. Might negate the need for the sprung seat and save you a few $$$ and give you a better ride front and rear.

Best of luck with it.

Anna, I'm in total agreement with you about the VIII-H. I've had mine a few weeks and love its size and features. The one thing I'd like to do is make it a little bit lighter. Hopefully, Wavshrdr or someone else equally knowledgeable, can make a suggestion or two. I'm guessing that I should start with lighter rims, but maybe I'm wrong.

You will save ounces most places and not pounds. You can shave some weight but it isn't going to be free. Lighter rims won't save you too much. You will improve a bit in efficiency. Ditch the stock seat for a lighter one and go with lighter tires and tubes. The SA hub is heavier than a derailleur but I still prefer it. Really tires are the best place to shave a little weight. Almost forgot, the pedals could be changed for some light MKS ones. The stock ones seem REALLY strong but are not light. I think with a little work you could shave off 2-3 lbs.

For the torque monsters on DTs, beware of tacoing your crankset. I was riding out of the saddle yesterday, my usual mashing up hill in 8th gear, and suddenly the chain was off the chainring .... because the spider supporting the chain ring had warped so as to derail the chain. I was able to keep my balance and stop, put the chain on, and get home while watching the 10mm deviation of the chain ring. I had been planning to change the BB and cranks to a NB Isis set... did that today. To be honest.... I was way beyond the design limits of the OEM crank.... but it is the first time I've actually tacoed a crank spider. I've tacoed cassette cogs before.... but I can now add a new type of front derailleur to my CV.

You will save ounces most places and not pounds. You can shave some weight but it isn't going to be free. Lighter rims won't save you too much. You will improve a bit in efficiency. Ditch the stock seat for a lighter one and go with lighter tires and tubes. The SA hub is heavier than a derailleur but I still prefer it. Really tires are the best place to shave a little weight. Almost forgot, the pedals could be changed for some light MKS ones. The stock ones seem REALLY strong but are not light. I think with a little work you could shave off 2-3 lbs.

On your suggestion, Wav, I decided to compare the weight of the Big Apples to the stock Kendas. The Apples are 530 g (20 x 2.00) and 650 g (20 x 2.3) - I'm not sure which is right size for comparison - whereas I couldn't even find model used on the VIII-H on the Kenda website for a 20 x 1.75. Can you help?

I think Montreal is relatively tame wrt bike theft depending upon how, when, where, how often and how long you lock your bike outside and leave it, but, I've been wondering about getting Pitlocks for my front and rear wheels - I hate the feeling of someone stealing any part of my bicycle-friend, not to mention the hassle/expense of replacement.

One cheap solution would be to fold the bike up every time you lock it to a post/sign/etc. Since the front wheel folds against the back, a single cable could secure them together. Just make sure to run the cable through part of the metal frame, as well. This would take an extra 30-60 seconds of effort each and every time you lock up the bike, but would have the added benefit of making the bike visually less "steal-worthy".

Glad to hear that the bike is serving you so well. Have you met af895? I haven't seen him on these boards lately, his contributions are missed.

For the torque monsters on DTs, beware of tacoing your crankset. I was riding out of the saddle yesterday, my usual mashing up hill in 8th gear, and suddenly the chain was off the chainring .... because the spider supporting the chain ring had warped so as to derail the chain. I was able to keep my balance and stop, put the chain on, and get home while watching the 10mm deviation of the chain ring. I had been planning to change the BB and cranks to a NB Isis set... did that today. To be honest.... I was way beyond the design limits of the OEM crank.... but it is the first time I've actually tacoed a crank spider. I've tacoed cassette cogs before.... but I can now add a new type of front derailleur to my CV.
I think the first think I changed on my DT was to replace the crankset with a road crankset. The gearing with the original cranks was to low for me. With the road crankset I could change the chainring and increase the gearing. I run a 53 T front ring, now.

Anna- I have the Downtube VIIIH like you with the 20" wheels. I am definitely going to look in changing the gearing a bit.

Wav, please keep us informed if you go ahead and modify the hub gearing. Seems daunting.

Yes, I've thought about that, but I understand that those long cables can be relatively easily cut. I use a Ming Tai (?) heavy plastic-covered cable with a round keyhole that I've read can be in somecases easily breached. I don't have any idea how good it is. I did a search here and found lots of discussion and suggestions, including Pitlocks. Someone told me that I wouldn't need to worry about the back wheel too much for short lock-ups because it isn't quick release. And thanks, spambait (love your name! ;) for the suggeston of the Veratomic - I'm just not sure that I need quick release at all. My Peugeots and Raleigh had quick release and I never used them once in the span of 30 years. Yeah, I'm not mechanically minded. :) And I've thought about the theft-target potential of the Brooks and you might be right but I know it would feel so good! And yes, Wavshrdr, there's the additional concern of not letting it get wet and the stock DT seat was better than I expected too. Yan isn't big on the Brooks either. Definitely drawbacks to consider. More hmmmm. I guess I should look into the Big Apples as well; I've heard them mentioned a lot around here.

No, I haven't met af895 yet. When he was free I had the complication of an unexpected house guest for a couple of weeks, and since I've been free he's been working very long days - he emailed me a couple of days ago. Even I noticed his absence from the new KHC folders thread! ;) Hopefully he'll have more time soon, then maybe he'll have some more comments on the DT and some time to post here again.

I'll keep reading and thinking - thanks again to all for your useful feedback!

Anna

'lo all,

i m in oakland, ca. anyone within a few miles of a bart station have a DT i can try for a few minutes before i buy? tyvm.

elbe

I asked Yan about this and I think he said it was a 1 1/8 inch threaded, which is an odd size-so I want to recheck. I am looking at a front shock upgrade but it is available only in 1 inch threaded or 1 1/8 inch threadless.

'lo everyone,

can i change a DT 8 speed cassette to 9 speed cassette? is the derailler on the 8 speed models the right size for a 9 speed cassette?will a 9 speed cassette fit on the wheel from an 8 speed model? will either a 9 speed 11-32 tooth or an 11-34 tooth cassette work? what problems might i have with this change? tyvm.

elbe

'lo everyone,

can i change a DT 8 speed cassette to 9 speed cassette? is the derailler on the 8 speed models the right size for a 9 speed cassette?will a 9 speed cassette fit on the wheel from an 8 speed model? will either a 9 speed 11-32 tooth or an 11-34 tooth cassette work? what problems might i have with this change? tyvm.

elbe
As far as I know you can change the cassette without a problem. I think it is a Shimano compatible hub. The derailleur should also work fine, but you would definitely need a new shifter and chain. Maybe just a different 8 speed cassette would do the trick?

For more reading:

http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html

'lo everyone,

can i change a DT 8 speed cassette to 9 speed cassette? is the derailler on the 8 speed models the right size for a 9 speed cassette?will a 9 speed cassette fit on the wheel from an 8 speed model? will either a 9 speed 11-32 tooth or an 11-34 tooth cassette work? what problems might i have with this change? tyvm.

elbe

8sp derailleurs use a different parallelogram than a 9sp. You will need to swap cassette, derailleur, and shifter to upgrade to 9sp

Thanks,
Yan

Yeah - I am glad to have another downtube rider around. I have ridden mine (non-suspension) for 3 to 4 weeks without problems. I thought - because mine fit me so well (5'2) that a taller person mgiht find it a bit short. GLad you are working around that problem. Full suspension - does it make it impossible to use a rack or do you carry gear in a backpack? Or even carry no gear at all?

I can't tell you (but will try) how glad I am to read your reviews! I am just shy of 4'11" and aching to put a (hopefully not too expensive) folder in my car - have become totally dissatisfied with my 2 current bikes which I am selling. I plan to buy a recumbent pretty soon but that doesn't satisfy my yen to have a bike that is easily transported, so that I can ride it at whim. I too live in St. Louis, and would love to see that downtube in person, if that is a possibility...Tori

Tori- I wrote a pretty complete review of a current model Downtube. My kids love to ride it and they are pretty close to your size, well at least one of them. Go here to see it:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=215537

If you come a bit North you could look at mine.

Hi everyone,

:roflmao: I'm very excited about getting my DT. I've been looking for a folder to take when we travel with the Airstream. We like to bring our kayaks when we travel, so there is no room on top of the tow vehicle or behind because of the hitch. That left us putting our bikes in the back of our short bed which left little room for the other things we need to bring plus it is such a pain to take them off the rack, put the front wheel back on,....

The VIII H looks like it will fit my needs perfectly, the color is pefect (matches the airstream) the fact that iit is aluminum suits me (Airstream is aluminum). I like the idea of not getting grease all over, the internal hub should help minimize any damage that might occur bouncing around the back of the truck. I can't wait, I'm sure after my husband tries it he'll want one too.

My question for Yan is, I know that when I placed my order it said that they were expected to be in stock on the 14th of August is this still true? If I live on Cape Cod when can I expect to receive it? Getting together with a bunch of Airstreamers over Labor Day at the shore and would love to have it to show them. Birdy is now working with Airstream with a special edition (Airstream label on it) but at $1250 it's no bargain. If I'm as pleased with the DT as everyone seems to be I know that I can convince quite a few to check it out. Too bad I can't get it by the 12th of August, heading up to a huge Region Rally with over 120 trailers where there'll be a couple Airstream Birdys. Would be nice to compare them side by side.

Guess I'll wait patiently to hear when this little treasure will be here.