Folding Bikes - Downtube folding bike

Hi!

I found these "Downtube" folding bikes online and was wondering if anyone here owns one, has tested/seen one or knows of any independent review of any kind. From the description and the pictures on the webiste it looks pretty nice. Also the price seems quite reasonable.

Any thoughts...?!

Here are the links to the bikes:

http://www.downtube.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1307&osCsid=0c725dbe3876e3dd303c90514771fac6

http://www.downtube.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1306&osCsid=0c725dbe3876e3dd303c90514771fac6

It looks like a Dahon wanna-be. It resembles my Dahon Boardwalk.

non replacable chainring ? spindly steel seatpost, sun race shifter ?

and what about the bad roads, which makes the cars dont slip backwards ?
( maybe snow in the mountains on St Thomas ? )

well I dont know .... the compononents are certainly sub standard if you compare it to a boardwalk.... and comparing it to a jetstream p 8 is hilarious at best ...

take a testride for sure, than try a boardwalk and see for yourself

Thor

I have always liked my suntour shifters .I understand Sunrace is suntours latest form.If you have never used sunrace shifters are you qualified to criticize them?Inferior compared to what?Shimano or Sram. As for the non replaceable chainring my boardwalk has one as well.Spindly steel seatpost? My yeah has one and it is not spindly.I do not like the latches though ,dahon has better seatpost and frame latches in my opinion and I have used the type present on the Downtube.I think the reference to the roads made in the ad copy for downtube simply referred to gravel offering more traction in certain conditions than concrete or asphalt.The shipping charges are high is he shipping from China ( Or wherever these are manufactured )direct?

I have seen and ridden a Downtube viii. It seems very nice and fits me (5'2) much better than my dahon speed8 (I had to change the handlebars - speed8 is way too long for me and causing back and wrist pain). Seat is much nicer than speed8 to me and it is standard type so it can be changed. To me it is very similar to my friend's KHS F20-iv. I do not know how it would fit a taller rider (although handlebars are easily adjustable with quick release) - but for my height - downtube is much more comfortable. I don't know anything about sunrace componants - shifting worked okay as far as I could tell and the chain has not fallen off yet nor have gears been slipping as on dahon.

Other downtube viii info - the pedals seem to be all plastic and they fold like the Dahon - but the plastic may make them less substantial than the ones on dahon. No flats reported on downtube yet- many on my dahon (I had two in the first week). The folding mechanisms on downtube are not quite as smooth or quite as quick as on dahon - but only require a little more effort (time increase is not significant that I have noticed - certainly less than 1 minute). Folding mechanisms are (to my unprofessional eye) exactly like the KHS F20iv. I am going to trade my speed8 for awhile and try commuting on Downtube while partner uses dahon for more gentile (park) riding- I am particularly interested in whether the tires hold up better to urban commute and also whether gears slip/chain drop as on dahon. I got the downtube for less than dahon boardwalk 7 would cost for partner (did not want to spend much on a bike she would possibly not ride). My needs are not quite as extensive as some - I have a hybrid for more major riding - but I need a small reliable(so far dahon has not been as carefree as I would like) commute bike that will fit in my small office, in a small apartment, and reasonably easily fit into almost any vehicle. My commute is not much - 4 miles each way - so I will give it a test.

I have now ridden the downtube 20 miles (Sunday and Monday) in rather hot St. Louis weather (bike was fine - just too hot to ride much for me - 100 degree temps). It is a nice bike so far and I like the way it handles and fits me - gears all seem to work well - no slipping or chain dropping or flat tires. It is somewhat heavier than the dahon speed 8, although I can pick it up and carry it without trouble (I have not tried the carrying bag yet) and the grips on the handlebars are not as wide - so someone with large hands might find it uncomfortable. I like the end bars (I think that is what they are called) - but again - they are rather small and I have placed them in a way others might not - but I am comfortable with them. The downtube is less twitchy or sensitive (I cannot think of another word to describe it ) than the dahon - whether from weight or other I don't know - I like the ride of the downtube better - but I am used to a heavier hybrid - not a road bike (which - when I borrow one from a friend - also seems more sensitive or twitchier to me). I found that the back wheel did not skid or slide like on the dahon when I go fast around corners or into turns and downtube can take traffic bumps and low curbs better in my opinion. This is not to say dahon is not a good bike (it was certainly a more expensive bike and componants may be better, and the folding mechanisms are nicer - but dahon has been in the shop for chain/gear problems- not as useful for commuting but possibly not as big a deal to someone who is better at bicycle mechanics than I am) and I will use it for certain things - but downtube does fit my short fire hydrant shaped body better and possibly my riding style. It does ride very much like the KHS F20iv If I can figure out how to post pictures, I will.

It looks like a Dahon wanna-be. It resembles my Dahon Boardwalk.


For what it is worth, and remember that I did buy a dahon , I had two different lbs try to talk me out of dahon - one urged the giant halfway and the other encouraged the khs folders - both said they had worked on dahons and found the quality wanting. Neither carried any folders in stock and said they could order any of them- so I don't believe it was because they wanted to sell me something they just had lying around.

Thanks everyone!

I finally bought a Downtube VIIIFS (the full suspension model) about a week ago. I got it new on e-bay for around $200 plus $27 shipping.
After I got it I took it for a very short test ride and decided that the "top tube length" is to short for me. Therefore I installed a regular stem on the head tube and switched the flat handlebar to drop bars. I also changed the crankset and now have a 52 tooth chainring.

Today I commuted to campus on it and it rides great. My commute is about 16 miles each way. I was actually quite surprised how fast the ride is. The suspension takes care of most bumps and the seat is very comfortable. The have the seatpost at the extension limit and wish it would extend one or two more centimeters, but I really like to be stretched out on a bike. :)

Thanks everyone!

I finally bought a Downtube VIIIFS (the full suspension model) about a week ago. )


Yeah - I am glad to have another downtube rider around. I have ridden mine (non-suspension) for 3 to 4 weeks without problems. I thought - because mine fit me so well (5'2) that a taller person mgiht find it a bit short. GLad you are working around that problem. Full suspension - does it make it impossible to use a rack or do you carry gear in a backpack? Or even carry no gear at all?

Thanks - I was just curious about commuting with full suspension because I thought the rack thing was not as easy. Although it appears I was wrong.

I got the orange one. And yes at 180cm (~5'11) it originally is somewhat short for me since i like to be stretched out. (one of my "regular" bikes even is a 59cm frame)
I actually have a rear rack on it. It is one of those racks that attach to the seatpost. I can't take very heavy things, but it easily carries a change of clothes and some tools.

As soon as I have pictures, I will post them. :)

Thanks a lot! i am now going to wake up in the middle of the night with an unquenchable desire for that second bike. :o

Yeah - I am glad to have another downtube rider around. I have ridden mine (non-suspension) for 3 to 4 weeks without problems. I thought - because mine fit me so well (5'2) that a taller person mgiht find it a bit short. GLad you are working around that problem. Full suspension - does it make it impossible to use a rack or do you carry gear in a backpack? Or even carry no gear at all?

Hi all, I'm new here to 'bikeforums' but not new to 'folders' as I have 2 Dahon Helios 8's, a new 05 Jetstream XP and a new 05 SpeedPro. Recently I purchased 3 Downtube VIII FS (two whites and an orange). One I sold to one of my customers who is a teacher and rides it around campus, one is a birthday present to a girlfriend, and the other one is my day to day workhorse for errands and general street and some dirt trail riding. Below is a little impression I wrote a few weeks back that went on the Downtube site. After riding it steady since, I like it even more for it's ability to run smoothly on rough paved roads as well as trails. Amazing bikes for the money the new ones are now going for on ebay. Anyways, here's what I wrote:

I like 'folders' and have been riding Dahons for a few years (Helios
P8s). Just recently I bought a new Downtube VIII FS. It is an outstanding
value and an excellent 'all around' folder. It's very comfortable and
stable on 'less than perfect' roads. I take it on trails and broken roads
that I would not consider on the Helios. At 30lbs it's not the lightest
of the bunch, but it feels and gives a confident ride that is appreciated .
I think the gearing is optimum for the intended use. Little included extras
like braze-ons for a waterbottle/air pump, a traveling bag, bell, dual
chainring guards (I've yet to throw a chain), telescoping handlebar all
add to great value. Having good quality components with a strong frame,
strong wheels, great brakes and front and rear suspension with excellent
customer service at a very competitive price add up to a winning bike. I
actually bought a second one for another location. The FS has become my
first choice for my general day to day in town riding .

Bruce

Nice! Got any close-up pics of the bike? (stuff like the derailleurs, QR's for the stem, seat-post, shocks, shifters - oh! and the hinge!)

I did a review of the KHS here: http://www.halffg.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/foldsoc/canada.html

Maybe the Folding Society (http://www.foldsoc.co.uk/) would publish a report on the Downtube too.

I figure the longevity of a bike is inversely proportional to it's weight. I'll take beefy anyday. Besides, 29lbs isn't bad. :) The DT site leaves out some details - maybe you could fill us in. What's the actual seat-post length and diameter? How far can you extend the stem and what's the distance from center of bottom bracket to top of seat with the post at max-safe extension?

One thing my bike didn't come with was a bag to carry it folded. Any idea if DT will sell the bags seperately?

Thanks!
Chris

Hi Chris,

I'll get you the measurements later after my workday. The included bag is terrific, made well, and the bike fits in easily for me. I even use it for my Dahons. I don't know if Dr. Yan (DownTube owner/designer) would sell them outright, but he is very accessible by phone and I've talked to him a few times. They certainly would be worth a few bucks. One thing I forgot to mention about the FS models is that they are quiet on the road and don't creak from the hinges, seat, or steering posts like some folders. The main folding hinges look like over-kill to me (and are not pretty) and even have a spring loaded pin which fits in a hole to prevent the hinge from coming apart even if the main hinge handle were to come completely loose. The spring loaded pin must be 'defeated' to un-hinge.

Here's a link to more pics you may not have seen:

http://www.downtube.com/images/Bikes_7-14/

Bruce

Very cool. This pic: http://www.downtube.com/images/Bikes_7-14/BikeinBag.jpg
...left me with a question.

Is that little black bobble to the right of the bag with the bike in it - actually what the bag looks like folded up?! (if so, I MUST HAVE ONE)


Yup! It's designed to attach to the rear seat when not in use......Although the pic shows the bike sticking out of the bag, it can be completely enclosed and zipped up....ahha

Bruce

FRICKIN' AWESOME!!! That's EXACTLY what I've been looking for! Something I can pack down and stuff in a pannier when I'm riding and then open up and put the bike in when I need to jump a train!!!

Oh boy - I've so gotta send Dr.Yan an email. Hope he doesn't mind selling the bags seperately. I didn't know about Downtube before I bought a folder. :\

wow - I am going to have to try my downtube bag now.

If you don't have any luck, try finding a bag for the Breezer i7 (which is what I am using for my Gobike). It works the same way. Not sure what bike you have, but maybe you could even use the smaller i3 bag. Like the i7,my bike is a bit taller and narrower than most when folded. As a result, the i3 bag is too small and I couldn't use a bag that would fit, for instance a 20" Dahon. Avenir also has a similar bag for their folders, but I think that the bags come with the bike, so they may not be sold separately. Good luck.

Any views on suspension vs. non-suspended Downtubes?

Any views on suspension vs. non-suspended Downtubes?

I have the suspension one. Obviously the suspension (especially the fork) is not the latest and greatest in suspension technology, but it soaks up the bumps relatively well and doesn't bounce too much while pedaling.
:)

As far as I can tell the company seems to be plugging along, slowly. Seems that they have a great design, but limited resources. There are a couple of international sites marketing their products, and they still answer their phones, respond to e-mail, etc.

Why didn't I see this thread before I ordered the Dahon Boardwalk S1? For a little more to get a full suspension would be excellent. Do I need another folder? Decision decision...

I am the designer of the Downtube Bike, my name is Yan Lyansky. I wanted to thank everyone for all the kind words about our bikes. There were some people that mentioned problems in trying to contact us in earlier posts. If anyone has any questions about the bikes please email me at yan@downtube.com or call my cell at 215-313-4844. I try my best to help all our customers in a timely fashion, however, my response may be delayed because I am a full time professor.

Overall, we are very excited about our bikes, in our first month we sold about 150 and sales are increasing. We are able to sell our bikes for less than our competition for several reasons. We design/import/distribute/retail our bikes. This allows for phenominal cost savings which we pass on to our customers. We feel many quality products are overpriced, our goal is assist in making a more efficient market.

To clear up some points brought up in earlier posts our seatposts are aluminum, the only steel components are the chainring, and the stem. The frame, brakes, barends, cranks, hubs, handlebar, and cassette are all high quality aluminum. Next years model will add an alloy stem, alloy chainring, and lighter wheels. I love some of the ideas brought up in this forum and we will use many in our future designs.

Thanks,
Yan

I'm always pleased when manufactures come onto boards (bicycling or other subjects). I don't know why more do not -- they or at least their employees must read them.

I'm wondering what size tires & tubes the current downtube takes, for availability of spares and options for replacement.

The owners/manufacturer can confirm this but I'd wager the Downtube takes ETRTO 406 sized tires - aka "20 inch."

These are arguably the MOST common tire size next to MTB 26 inch and 700c - making them VERY easy to source. Tons of options for 406 sized touring tires. I'm running 100psi Schwalbe Marathon 20x1.50's. (40-406)

I'm always pleased when manufactures come onto boards (bicycling or other subjects). I don't know why more do not -- they or at least their employees must read them.

I'm wondering what size tires & tubes the current downtube takes, for availability of spares and options for replacement.

We use Kenda 47-406 20"x1.75”, replacements should be easy to find.

Thanks,
Yan

Do any of you have pictures of folding your downtube and putting it in the bag? My bars
(viii non fs)
seem to fold to the inside rather than the outside of the bike. What am I doing wrong? Thanks. I still love this bike and use it more often than my dahon - which is my 2nd back up bike. I don't often need to fold it - but thought I would practice putting it in bag for when I do - it was a disaster. Icouldn't find pictures of how to fold on downtube site - so I thought I would ask here.

I am the designer of the Downtube Bike, my name is Yan Lyansky.

Someone else here mentioned being 180 cm tall, and right on the limit of the stock seat post. I'm 194 cm (6' 4") so I'm guessing the bike won't fit me.

Is there a longer seatpost available?

Is it possible to swap out the riser to get a more comfortable position for a taller rider?

(Good info to add to the website, maybe...?)

./Magnus

Do any of you have pictures of folding your downtube and putting it in the bag? My bars
(viii non fs)
seem to fold to the inside rather than the outside of the bike. What am I doing wrong? Thanks. I still love this bike and use it more often than my dahon - which is my 2nd back up bike. I don't often need to fold it - but thought I would practice putting it in bag for when I do - it was a disaster. Icouldn't find pictures of how to fold on downtube site - so I thought I would ask here.

The stem should fold to the right of the bike (assuming you are on the bike) however several customers have swapped the orientation of the stem. Rotating it 180 degrees it will fold to the left and will give a more compact fold. However that folding technique may take an extra second or two. Either approach should be compact enough for the bag. Once the stem is folded the frame can swing around to give you a nice compact fold.

To be honest I am not a big fan of using the bag, I hardly ever use it. Well over 50% of our customers requested a bag when they bought our VI model last year, hence we decided to include a bag with every purchase. I can try to take some pictures next weekend, however if I look clumsy/silly I will not post :)

Someone else here mentioned being 180 cm tall, and right on the limit of the stock seat post. I'm 194 cm (6' 4") so I'm guessing the bike won't fit me.

Is there a longer seatpost available?

Is it possible to swap out the riser to get a more comfortable position for a taller rider?

(Good info to add to the website, maybe...?)

./Magnus

Magnus,

The seatpost is 500mm from bottom to the seatpost clamp, I do not think you will find a longer post. I have a friend that is 6'4" and rode my bike. It seemed fine for short distances...around the block. However, I think the top tube length may be too short for a tall rider. An option may be to replace the stem with a Zoom adjustable stem. Unfortunately, I can not guarantee this setup will work for you. If you are in the Philly area stop by and try one out.

Thanks,
Yan

Someone else here mentioned being 180 cm tall, and right on the limit of the stock seat post. I'm 194 cm (6' 4") so I'm guessing the bike won't fit me.

Is there a longer seatpost available?

Is it possible to swap out the riser to get a more comfortable position for a taller rider?

(Good info to add to the website, maybe...?)

./Magnus
Magnus,

I just measured my downtube bike (VII-FS). With the seatpost at full extension (extended to the markings) it measures 68.5cm from the center of the bottom bracket to the center of the seat rails, and about 60.5cm from the middle of the seat rail fixture (of the seatpost) to the center of the original handlebars.
Just as comparison my road bike's (frame size 56cm) measurements are 71cm and 71cm. Since I have "fine tuned" my seating position on that road bike for quite some time, I tried to replicate those measurements on the folding bike. And I actually came pretty close with installing a regular 1 1/8 inch stem on the steerer tube. Obviously the folding capability suffers a little bit, but I don't need to fold it very often. Most bus drivers let me take it on the bus without folding it.

:)
Christoph

Magnus,

I just measured my downtube bike (VII-FS). With the seatpost at full extension (extended to the markings) it measures 68.5cm from the center of the bottom bracket to the center of the seat rails, and about 60.5cm from the middle of the seat rail fixture (of the seatpost) to the center of the original handlebars.
Just as comparison my road bike's (frame size 56cm) measurements are 71cm and 71cm.

Christoph,

The bike looks really good in bright orange with the drop bars!

I just played around with a tape measure and stationary bike.. Actually the extension will be no problem. I seem most comfortable in the 68 - 72 cm range. Seems I could easily manage that with a new stem. I suppose I prefer a fairly upright posture for my height.

I think the real killer is leg length - center of b-b to top of saddle was 79 cm.

Since you already have a decent road bike, I don't suppose you choose the Downtube to go for a hard & fast ride. But if you did, and if you stood up to go fast uphill.. what then? Flexy?

cheers, Magnus

I think the real killer is leg length - center of b-b to top of saddle was 79 cm.
I measured to the seat rails, since not all saddles are created equal... ;) So I guess if I add the stock saddle it would be 4-5 cm more (total of 73cm maybe?).


Since you already have a decent road bike, I don't suppose you choose the Downtube to go for a hard & fast ride. But if you did, and if you stood up to go fast uphill.. what then? Flexy?
I take it for commuting to campus. That's about 18 miles each way. For 16 miles I take a bike path that gives the opportunity to go fast. It doesn't feel flexy in those cases. :)

This is my first post on the forums. I currently have a Dahon Mariner and just received my new white VIII folder. Here is a link to some pictures and a short video. I will write a quick review when I get a little time.

http://bridgeofwalls.darktech.org:8080/pictures

Let me know if anyone wants and detailed pictures of any part of the bike.

My first ride was very nice. Frame feels stiffer than my Dahon and I'm not scared to go down STEPS on it! See the video on my site.

Cool Bike!! :-)

@ There, Thanks a lot for the pictures. But: They are huge and many rather blurry, any chance for other/improved ones? Plus the video looks very promising but i don't see any bike in it! Just the staircase...?

Perhaps Downtube could even more good pictures too, i think it would really help interest and sales.

For the rest: a most impressive bike for the money for sure! Personally i think:

The Pedals, brake levers look so so, as does the front chainring and suspension. Then again that is just an opinion and i have never even seen one, so i am not even very informed either.

Maybe it is just a prejudice/taste but personally i would go for the non-suspended version i think and buy a sprung Brooks saddle. I find that cheap suspension systems tend to add a lot of complexity, weight and lack of reliability to a bike, plus a lot of the cheap suspension systems soak up a lot of your pedalling energy. Still if you are not so so concerned about efficiency this is the best deal you can get on a full suspension folder bar none! I will be very curious to see next years incarnation and whether the price will remain the same!

I wonder is it possible to order just a frame or custom Downtube? I for one would love to have a frame and then maybe select the parts that most appealed to me.

Anybody have an informed opinion about the (drivetrain) components and wheelset, i know they are more obscure than the "big brands" stuff but are they good? I actually like that Downtube is not using Shimano and such, i am not a fan of big business.

I love the construction, solid welds and simple but distintive logo/font! Great product guys! Also i find the philosophy "Overall, we are very excited about our bikes, in our first month we sold about 150 and sales are increasing. We are able to sell our bikes for less than our competition for several reasons. We design/import/distribute/retail our bikes. This allows for phenominal cost savings which we pass on to our customers. We feel many quality products are overpriced, our goal is assist in making a more efficient market." great.

That is exactly the philosphy i hold/appreciate.

"Kronan" bikes had the same bizz practice and filosophy in the Netherlands for the first few years. As a result they went from a tiny company to selling lots and lots of bikes... Of course then they kinda sold out after a few years and abandoned their filosophy and i think merged/became a regualr company using regular distribution and such. The result was that prices became much higher.

I hope Downtube will never go this way!

If you Downtube guys need a contact or advocate in the Netherlands i am game! The folder market seems to be exploding here.

As for the Aluminium frame, i think that is a pity, i prefer steel, the reasons being durability and that it is easier to fix. Other people explain better than i can in recent thread why from a certain perspective (despite being slightly heavier) steel is preferable for some..

Lastly i think that downtube could maybe look at the Xootr Swifts, their dropout design in particular is worth checking. The fact that i allows many drivetrains (fixed gear, derallieur, hub gear) means that it makes an interesting bike for many types of buyers which means more potential buyers.

Keep up the great work!

Cool Bike!! :-)

Thanks!

@ There, Thanks a lot for the pictures. But: They are huge and many rather blurry, any chance for other/improved ones? Plus the video looks very promising but i don't see any bike in it! Just the staircase...?

---I will take some more better quality pictures today. The video seems to work here. I make another one aswell.

Perhaps Downtube could even more good pictures too, i think it would really help interest and sales.

For the rest: a most impressive bike for the money for sure! Personally i think:

The Pedals, brake levers look so so, as does the front chainring and suspension. Then again that is just an opinion and i have never even seen one, so i am not even very informed either.

---The pedals (plastic) seem to "give" a little. When standing out of the seat and going up hill the pedals seem just a tad flexy. This is true on my Dahon as well. I'm used to riding bikes (mostly BMX style) with steel or alm pedals. Does anyone have a recomendation for a wide folding metal pedal ( I have big feet, size 13 ).

---The chainring seems to do it's job well, even though it is plastic.

Maybe it is just a prejudice/taste but personally i would go for the non-suspended version i think and buy a sprung Brooks saddle. I find that cheap suspension systems tend to add a lot of complexity, weight and lack of reliability to a bike, plus a lot of the cheap suspension systems soak up a lot of your pedalling energy. Still if you are not so so concerned about efficiency this is the best deal you can get on a full suspension folder bar none! I will be very curious to see next years incarnation and whether the price will remain the same!

---For me anyway the suspension is great! I live in Manhattan and on the street I was getting beat up from the bumps on the road on my Dahon, the downtube is a HUGE improvemnt. As for soaking up energy I only notice it when climing a huge hill standing out of the saddle. On flat land it seems fine.

I wonder is it possible to order just a frame or custom Downtube? I for one would love to have a frame and then maybe select the parts that most appealed to me.

---Call up the designer, I have talked to him on AIM. Seems like a great guy. I'll give you his number if you can't find it. (his AIM name is DowntubeY)


Anybody have an informed opinion about the (drivetrain) components and wheelset, i know they are more obscure than the "big brands" stuff but are they good? I actually like that Downtube is not using Shimano and such, i am not a fan of big business.

--- I believe mine needs adjusting. Sometimes it will jump off the biggest gearing on the rear wheel, and on the smallest gear in the rear is seems to have a "clicking" in the chain and crank when pedaling. I have not adjusted anything yet so the issues is most likely mine.

I love the construction, solid welds and simple but distintive logo/font! Great product guys! Also i find the philosophy "Overall, we are very excited about our bikes, in our first month we sold about 150 and sales are increasing. We are able to sell our bikes for less than our competition for several reasons. We design/import/distribute/retail our bikes. This allows for phenominal cost savings which we pass on to our customers. We feel many quality products are overpriced, our goal is assist in making a more efficient market." great.

---The wheels seem awesome. I have really beat them so far and they are still true. If anyone in Manhattan would like to test ride mine just let me know.

That is exactly the philosphy i hold/appreciate.

"Kronan" bikes had the same bizz practice and filosophy in the Netherlands for the first few years. As a result they went from a tiny company to selling lots and lots of bikes... Of course then they kinda sold out after a few years and abandoned their filosophy and i think merged/became a regualr company using regular distribution and such. The result was that prices became much higher.

I hope Downtube will never go this way!

If you Downtube guys need a contact or advocate in the Netherlands i am game! The folder market seems to be exploding here.

As for the Aluminium frame, i think that is a pity, i prefer steel, the reasons being durability and that it is easier to fix. Other people explain better than i can in recent thread why from a certain perspective (despite being slightly heavier) steel is preferable for some..

Lastly i think that downtube could maybe look at the Xootr Swifts, their dropout design in particular is worth checking. The fact that i allows many drivetrains (fixed gear, derallieur, hub gear) means that it makes an interesting bike for many types of buyers which means more potential buyers.

Keep up the great work!

--- I am a little over 6' and weight about 150lbs. The seat stem is just a tad short for me. Does anyone know where I can find a 550mm - 600mm seat post?

09:54:AM:Wednesday] johnisathomenow: I'm 6' 1 and have very long legs. I need about 2 - 3 more inches. I'm going to head to a local bike shop here in nyc. Is there a perticular size I should ask for? How big around is it?
[09:55:AM:Wednesday] johnisathomenow: So far I'm really enjoying the bike. While riding here in manhattan I ran across *ANOTHER* downtube bike. She had just got it last week. She also is loving the folder.
[09:56:AM:Wednesday] DowntubeY: great
[09:56:AM:Wednesday] DowntubeY: 550mm
[09:56:AM:Wednesday] DowntubeY: may do the trick
[09:56:AM:Wednesday] DowntubeY: but it will be tough to find
[09:57:AM:Wednesday] johnisathomenow: how big around is the post if I look online?
[09:58:AM:Wednesday] DowntubeY: 27.2 will do
[09:58:AM:Wednesday] DowntubeY: without the shim you can go larger....but I'm not sure how large
[09:59:AM:Wednesday] johnisathomenow: Thanks.

here are the updated pictures (much clearer) and 3 short video clips in 640 x 480

http://bridgeofwalls.darktech.org:8080/pictures/newpictures/

check out the AVI movies aswell. (Right click and save as). Site is hosted at home so it may take a little time.

----------------Please excuse all the spelling errors. :)-----------------

I'm new to commuting by bike, and I'm very interested in the Downtube for use on the Caltrain system. It's great to hear these thoughtful posts by both owners and designer.

A few possibly picky questions:
* When folded, is there a device to keep the bike folded together or would you need a bag?
* What's a realistic folding time? 20sec?
* Is it comfortable to carry folded sans carrying case? (If, for example, the frame acts as a carrying grip.)
* How conceivable is it to add a grocery front pannier?

Thanks in advance!

It takes me a minute or so to fold my downtubeVIII - mostly because I have only folded it about three times(it takes me about that long to fold my dahon too for the same reason) - if I folded it more often I feel certain I would be better at it. It comes with a bag, although I imagine you could use a strip of velcro to bind wheels together and go from there without the bag. It isn't hard to carry, but wheel/chain dirt can be an issue.

Ah, thanks for the pictures! They are much clearer if still rather large. The movies are pretty convincing as far as the suspension goes.. nice!

About wheels, well they definately look like really nice/serious wheels! But even a decent 20 inch is pretty much bullet proof when it comes to warping (at least compared to larger sizes). That's not to say i don't appreciate the fact that the Downtube's wheels are great!

Also, they more i look at the Downtube (particularly the sprung model) the more it reminds me of a Moulton, and that's high praise i'd say.

v1nce: FWIW, a 32-spoke, cross laced, 20" wheel is about equivalent in strength to a 44-spoke 700c. (eg: bomb-proof) I don't think I've ever seen a 20" tacoed either. :)

There__,

Did you have any luck in finding the longer seatpost?

I've needed some specially sized seatposts in the past, and it seems like one option would always be to have a very strong pipe turned to the proper diameter. A fairly inexpensive lathe (<$1000 9x20) could turn both ends separately and get to above a meter. I have no idea what pricing a machine shop would offer for that.

I just did a search for a longer seatpost at qbp.com, the biggest bicycle wholesaler in the world, unfortunately they didn't have anything. I am trying to get a longer seatpost in future versions, however I can't make any guarantees.

FYI I just recieved another container of bikes. These have 28H front and rear wheels, so we have dropped some weight. The next container will have the following upgrades/changes:

1. Kalloy Uno adjustable stem
2. Removable Alloy Chainring
3. 24H front wheel 28H rear and 1.5" tire in the front (1.75" in the rear)
4. Same replaceable dropout as the VIII bike
5. Better cables
6. Stainless Steel spokes

We will upgrade to 9sp in the 2006 model year. We will also stock quality cost effective fenders, and QR rear racks for the FS model in 2 months.


Sales have been very strong.....I want to thank everyone for their support. It has been a blast producing and selling these bikes. I get compliments from almost every customer....we hope to continue producing great afforable bikes!

Thanks Again,
Yan



There__,

Did you have any luck in finding the longer seatpost?

I've needed some specially sized seatposts in the past, and it seems like one option would always be to have a very strong pipe turned to the proper diameter. A fairly inexpensive lathe (<$1000 9x20) could turn both ends separately and get to above a meter. I have no idea what pricing a machine shop would offer for that.

Yan,
Those are some great updates! Especially the replacable chain ring and the adjustable stem. Maybe the company that produces them knows where to get a longer seatpost or can make one?!

:)

Just so you know I spec'd both bikes with 550mm posts. However only 500mm were availible....so we used those.

I'm trying!

Thanks,
Yan


Yan,
Those are some great updates! Especially the replacable chain ring and the adjustable stem. Maybe the company that produces them knows where to get a longer seatpost or can make one?!

:)

Yan, can the swingarm be easily removed from the VIIIFS? It's not clear from the photos what's fastening the swingarm to the rest of the frame (ie. for really compact travel).

Thanks,

It is not difficult, however it is not easy either. The crank gets in the way of removing a bolt on the swingarm. If you can work through that you'll be fine.

Thanks,
Yan


Yan, can the swingarm be easily removed from the VIIIFS? It's not clear from the photos what's fastening the swingarm to the rest of the frame (ie. for really compact travel).

Thanks,

I'm curious - is there a reason that the current models couldn't hold a 9 speed rear drivetrain now? I'm sure cost is a factor; it seems like 8 speed stuff is fairly cheaper than that. But I've also heard that chainline becomes more of an issue on a folder because of reduced wheelbase, and also it's a real 8 speed drivetrain, whereas in most bikes only 7 of the 8 speeds would be recommended for each chainring.

I guess the current freehub will hold a 9 speed cassette since they're the same size as an 8 speed.

Which chain are you spec'ing for use with 9 speeds? Something more bendy than normal? I've read the SRAM chains are a bit noisier than the shimano (9 speed) chains, implying that some chains are a bit better suited for bending than others.

I'm curious - is there a reason that the current models couldn't hold a 9 speed rear drivetrain now? I'm sure cost is a factor; it seems like 8 speed stuff is fairly cheaper than that. But I've also heard that chainline becomes more of an issue on a folder because of reduced wheelbase, and also it's a real 8 speed drivetrain, whereas in most bikes only 7 of the 8 speeds would be recommended for each chainring.

I guess the current freehub will hold a 9 speed cassette since they're the same size as an 8 speed.

Which chain are you spec'ing for use with 9 speeds? Something more bendy than normal? I've read the SRAM chains are a bit noisier than the shimano (9 speed) chains, implying that some chains are a bit better suited for bending than others.

Jasong,

I'm no Sheldon Brown but I do frequent his website. Check out this page: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html

The line that sticks out: "Shimano 8- and 9-speed hubs and cassettes are fully interchangeable with one another, so any 8-speed hub can be a 9-speed, or vice-versa."

I understand this would need a narrower chain but it bodes well for the upgrade.

I understand this would need a narrower chain but it bodes well for the upgrade.

Af, I wasn't in doubt about the cassette replacement (assuming that a normal freehub is in use here). It's the narrow wheelbase that can make this very challenging (not as much lateral distance over which the chain can bend).