WOW! this thread is awesome...

IT stinks that Jan is always runner up, but STILL WHAT A CARRER! To podium that many times at the TDF is STILL a feat in among itself.

I don't know who I want to root for at this years tour. I really liked team CSC last year.. but ever since they won the UCI pro tour team title EVERYONE has jumped on the band wagon. I also like Jan's attitude of not making excuses for not winning. I hate it when riders say they didn't win because of a "tummy ache" or some other excuse... Just say you weren't the best that day..... Case closed. Then there is Floyd..... Coming from my part of PA, and being that my Grandparent's are Mennonite it is tough not to want to root for him......

Soo many choices!


I hope it goes Jan, Landis, Basso. Then Jan can retire and shut all the haters out there up!

Oh, NOW I get it!!! He's been sandbagging for nine years...

In addition to winning the TDF in '99, Ulrich has some pretty impressive palmaries over the past nine years: victories in the Vuelta, a gold medal in the Olympics, two world time trial championships,winner of the Tour of Switzerland, among others.

In addition to winning the TDF in '99, Ulrich has some pretty impressive palmaries over the past nine years: victories in the Vuelta, a gold medal in the Olympics, two world time trial championships,winner of the Tour of Switzerland, among others.

Armstrong won in '99. Ullrich won in '97.

The reason for all the Jan-bashing over the years isn't because he's won all that he's won - it's because of the phenominal level of promise he showed back in 1996 (2d on the TdF behind team leader Riis in his first try) that was seemingly confirmed when he won the Tour in 1997. His record since then has been disappointing when seen in light of the bright beginning.

Most disappointing was 1998, when he lost to Pantani by losing a ton 'o time in one Alpine stage, mainly because he neglected to put on a jacket or stuff newspaper under his jersey or do anything to ward off the cold on a nasty descent in brutal weather - by the time he got down the mountain, he was pretty much frozen solid and rode like it. (I don't really know how he is now, but back then his descending skills in general sucked, by pro standards. Also, Bobby Julich stopped long enogh to put on a jacket and maybe some other clothes - he survivied the stage well enough to end up on the podium that year.) That one mental error cost enough time to put the Tour out of reach - we're talking multiple minutes here. Pantani was going to win that stage anyway, but had Jan rode smarter, it is quite possible that the amount of time he later pulled back in a time trial would have been enough for him to repeat.

During the Lance years, there was always something to make one question just how badly he wanted it. He continuously put on too much weight on the off-season. Hey, I'm looking at my own belly and I can sympathize with how hard it is to deal with extra pounds, but doing that is part of his job. He had that bout with depression and self-destructive behavior that led to testing postive for some recreational pharmaceutical or other and getting suspended. And in the one year when Lance really was vulnerable, Jan couldn't quite find the killer instinct to really put him away, or even take the jersey away for a while.

Jan Ullrich was and remains an incredible talent - his palmares are ones most riders would sacrifice souls and body parts to accomplish. But compared to what his talent and future looked like in 1996 and 1997, those palmares look a little thin. That's the reason for all the Jan bashing. Whether it's fair or unfair is a matter of opinion, but I think that's an accurate expanation of why it has occurred.

It is doubtful that Jan will win. The only time he did win was under Bjarne's supervision with no pressure. He fell apart the next year. I'm not a Jan hater, but I am aware of his weaknesses. He doesn't apear to have worked on those unlike his competition such as Basso & Floyd. Jan appears to be in very poor shape at the moment based on his Giro performance. His handling skills haven't improved based on his poor ITT during a very technical stage. I'd like to see him better prepared for once. I don't see the work ethics there that other great riders have displayed. I doubt he will be amoung the true contenders once the difficult days start. Will one of the GC favorites put so much time on him (like last year) during the prologue that his opportunity is over?

It is doubtful that Jan will win. The only time he did win was under Bjarne's supervision with no pressure. He fell apart the next year. I'm not a Jan hater, but I am aware of his weaknesses.

I agree. Note that the year he won he did not start as the team leader and got the position when RIIS just did not have the legs. Next year still with the support and knowledge of RIIS he made a big mental mistake. His closest since then was a couple of years ago when he had a weak team and thus minimal preasure.

Of course that could mean that if he has a 'bad' start to the Tour, but not so bad as to put him out of range of the leader he just might win this year.

Thousands of pro cyclists over the past century have raced in the Tour de France. Most of them ranked among the elite cyclists of their generation. And less than a dozen guys have been on the podium as many times as Jan.

What the heck is wrong with being second best in the world at something? Who would turn down a chance to the the second best hitter in baseball, or the second best quarterback in the NFL? Or be the second guy who dated the hottest woman in town?

Let's hear it for the guys who finish second!!!

seems he'd have an easier time finishing 3rd or 4th than finishing 2nd. 2nd place brings with it a harsh crowd sometimes.

Thousands of pro cyclists over the past century have raced in the Tour de France. Most of them ranked among the elite cyclists of their generation. And less than a dozen guys have been on the podium as many times as Jan.

What the heck is wrong with being second best in the world at something? Who would turn down a chance to the the second best hitter in baseball, or the second best quarterback in the NFL? Or be the second guy who dated the hottest woman in town?

Let's hear it for the guys who finish second!!!

Actually only Raymond Poulidor has been on the podium as many times as Jan. But Poor Poulidor never won. Early on he faces Anquetil, Later Merckx in the few years between things just did not work out.

At least Poulidor already has the nickname so Jan is safe. He will not get named 'The Eternal Second'.

At least Poulidor already has the nickname so Jan is safe. He will not get named 'The Eternal Second'.
And even if that nickname wa still up for grabs, Jan wouldn't qualify because he actually won the TdF once. Pou-pou was never even the Yellow Jersey on the road, as they say.

And wasn't Zoetemelk on the podium as much as Poulidor and Ulrich?

And even if that nickname wa still up for grabs, Jan wouldn't qualify because he actually won the TdF once. Pou-pou was never even the Yellow Jersey on the road, as they say.

And wasn't Zoetemelk on the podium as much as Poulidor and Ulrich?

Nope Joop 'only' had 7



2 Joop Zoetemelk (Ned)

1970/2-1971/2-1976/2-1978/2-1979/2-1980/1-1982/2

Jan appears to be in very poor shape at the moment based on his Giro performance.

Yep. He just won the ITT by nearly 30 seconds. His form is soooo poooor. For the love of god people - he isn't racing to wint he Giro. He had a lot of hard days working for his teammates when they were in the MR. Basso, OTOH is trying to win it and he lost to Jan in the TT by 27 seconds while Jan is simply BUILDING for the tour.

Nope Joop 'only' had 7

2 Joop Zoetemelk (Ned)

1970/2-1971/2-1976/2-1978/2-1979/2-1980/1-1982/2
Thanks for the info (it sucks being at work and having access to the importnat books:p).

I bet Jan could get some sympathy from ol' Joop, who took a fair amount of abuse over the years. A popular joke of the early '70's - Q: Why doesn't Zoetemelk ever have a suntan? A: Because he always rides in Merck's shadow. And this for a guy who ultimately won a TdF and the Rainbow Jersey, who came back from a horrific, damn near fatal car-vs.-bike crash in 1974 in one of the big pre-Tour stage races (Midi Libre? Dauphine? Tour of Switzerland?), and who had to race against Merckx, Thevenet & Hinault (only 12 TdF wins between those three). All I can say is having to perform in the public eye can be awfully harsh.

Didn't Ray Poulidor finished on the podium when he was really old too? I think he finish 3 rd when he was 41??? I like to see Jan do that for some reason.

Thanks for the info (it sucks being at work and having access to the importnat books:p).

Q: Why doesn't Zoetemelk ever have a suntan? A: Because he always rides in Merck's shadow.

that **** is just cold

Jan has been simply building for the Tour for how many years? And, he still does not know how to get prepared for it. He needs to work on his climbing, not his TT skills. I still believe he is not in good form for what it takes to win a grand tour. Has he shown that he can climb? He needs a lot more than a good ITT to win a grand tour. This year's Tour has at least 3 mountain top finishes. How close do you think Jan will be to any of the major GC contenders, especially Basso, on those stages? How many minutes down from Basso was he on today's Giro stage? 5:27! If he is riding himself into shape, I would say he'll be prepared for the Tour in 07.

Jan has been simply building for the Tour for how many years? And, he still does not know how to get prepared for it. He needs to work on his climbing, not his TT skills. I still believe he is not in good form for what it takes to win a grand tour. Has he shown that he can climb? He needs a lot more than a good ITT to win a grand tour. This year's Tour has at least 3 mountain top finishes. How close do you think Jan will be to any of the major GC contenders, especially Basso, on those stages? How many minutes down from Basso was he on today's Giro stage? 5:27! If he is riding himself into shape, I would say he'll be prepared for the Tour in 07.


I agree...I mean when I train all I do is ride at max heart rate all the time till I puke. Who ever came up with this recovery/periodization crap! And we all know what a crappy climber he is...I mean there are actually one or two guys who have a faster time ever up Alpe du Huez...I mean the 97 TDF had almost no mountains and like 6-7 ITT's.

Why would Jan go all out on a mountain stage at this point? He has nothing to prove.... and should he win a stage, or stay with Basso...it will show everyone exactly what shape he is in. He sent a signal in the TT.... I think he is holding back on purpose and allowing everyone to think he is going to get aced on the climbs in the tour.

I think we will see him test himself in the mountains this week though... But if he CAN climb well.... he certainly doesn't want to show Riis. Let him and Ivan think the tour is going to be easy.

Its very lancesque, strategy wise...

Why would Jan go all out in a mountain stage at this point? Because everyone who has been beating him in the Tour in previous years were doing just that by this point in the season. It doesn't have to do with proving a point. It has to do with improving his climbing ability. He did a good climb on Alpe du Huez, but where did he loose time? In other mountain stages! Did he finish on the podium in France? Nope. Let's see, he has two more days to test himself in mountain stages. He's notorious for preparing too late. He doesn't practice periodization. He practices non-training. He lost the desire by 98. Read what former team mates say about him. That's why it is very doubtful that he will ever win another grand tour. He couldn't even win the Tour of Germany.

really sucks to be Jan if your name happens to show up on a bag in Spain.

I was hoping to see Vino in the tour. He says he will ride the tour whether he is with Liberty or not. I hope he's got a team lined up to take him. After Ullrich's & Kloden's ridiculous tactics last year, I would like to see Vino on the podium.

The reason that Jan gets so much stick from the media is that they can't stand that he's been as successful as he has with so little effort. They like to see riders suffering to get where they are, and dislike riders like Jan who's success comes naturally.

seems he'd have an easier time finishing 3rd or 4th than finishing 2nd. 2nd place brings with it a harsh crowd sometimes.

I have a problem with the silver medal, I think if I were an athelete, I would rather come in last, I mean, if you win the gold you feel good, you win the bronze, at least I got something, you win the silver and that's like congratulations, you... almost won. Of all the losers, you came in first. You're the #1 loser, no one lost ahead of you.

This wasn't one of the sometimes, I'm guessing?

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races06/suisse06/suisse06st09-smiles.jpg

Today...somehow...this thread's title say it all...

~jg

Poor Jan.... I guess this means retirement.

I bet it sucks to be Jan Ullrich sometimes.


Err yeah, you pretty much nailed this one on the head.