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There is no doubt that hardcore cagers are addicted to Mitsubishi commercials....
BUT, I have seen some atrociously inconsiderate actions by the local weekend warriors.
Would it kill ya to let the train that's built up behind you safetly pass on that 4 mile windy narrow stretch?
I'm a loner on the road, and there are more then a few routes that I find convenient (but that are also very hard for cyclists and cagers to navigate safetly) It ain't rocket science to use a joining side street to move to the right and slow down a bit to let 3 or 4 get by...
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what are you talking about?
I'm talking about the fact that "Advocacy" is only viable when coupled with mutual consideration with those folks in the cars....
It ain't rocket science to use a joining side street to move to the right and slow down a bit to let 3 or 4 get by...
Since we both have equal rights to the road, you could say the same about (to) the offended cagers.
Plenty of ass-clowns riding bikes. Difference is when ass-clown cyclist messes up, more often than not, he only busts himself up. Ass-clown driver can kill and maim.
When me and 2 or 3 buds are out, we will single up to let cars get by. But, if there is no shoulder and the lane is narrow, I am not gonna ride the white line. The cagers can wait untill it is safe to get by. Funny how cars come up behind a farm implement or some other slow vehicle and sit there passively. Come up on some cylist(s) and the same driver gets all indignant.
Funny how cars come up behind a farm implement or some other slow vehicle and sit there passively. Come up on some cylist(s) and the same driver gets all indignant.
Ohh I agree wholeheartedly. But I'm talking about the 2 or 3 abreast clubbies that act as if they revel in slowing down traffic.
Since we both have equal rights to the road, you could say the same about (to) the offended cagers.
As much as we ***** about them, I'm always surprised that the great majority pass very safely.
On that windy narrow in the mountains, if I'm in a cage, I'll protect that biker and they can take their time. The last time I was in a windy foggy narrow, no bikers were seen but of course lots of fellow cagers and I was slower than most (had a ton of delicate test equipment in back) so I pulled over every good opportunity to let the "train" pass.
Good point about how someone in a bike annoys a driver more than say Farmer Brown on his tractor. We gotta get Farmer Brown to wear some Spandex!
On that windy narrow in the mountains, if I'm in a cage, I'll protect that biker and they can take their time. The last time I was in a windy foggy narrow, no bikers were seen but of course lots of fellow cagers and I was slower than most (had a ton of delicate test equipment in back) so I pulled over every good opportunity to let the "train" pass.
Good point about how someone in a bike annoys a driver more than say Farmer Brown on his tractor. We gotta get Farmer Brown to wear some Spandex!
Well Farmer Brown is seen as a working man contributing to the needs of the masses, where as bikers wearing spandex are seen as "clowns" out playing. This is especially true of club group riders. Few cyclists are seen as transportation... much less "contributing to the good of others." Perhaps cyclists would do better to wear overalls. :rolleyes:
A lot of club riders *are* clowns... To add an example of stupid cyclists: on the George Washington Bridge, the only way to get from Manhattan to NJ, there is a narrow, shared path for peds and cyclists. For some reason, some riders decide they need to be in 20+mph paceline on this path. Note that it's probably about a mile long but maybe 10ft wide, with a 135+ft drop to the Hudson on the left. WTF are these guys thinking?
... I'm talking about the 2 or 3 abreast clubbies that act as if they revel in slowing down traffic.
I have never seen cyclists (in small numbers) delay traffic for more than a very short time.
However, I regularly see motorists become raging *******s as a result of being delayed for literally a few seconds by a slower vehicle such as a bike.
Are you one of those motorists?
Someday I would like to travel to this mythical land where small groups of cyclists manage to hold up huge amounts of autos unneccesarily. When told of this place I ask the cager where it might be. The answer is always some vague place like "the Mountains" or "out in the Country" as if it were some pot of gold at the end of the rainbow or Lost Atlantis.
Meanwhile, here in reality, I can honestly say that I have been delayed by the actions of cars twice as much as I have ever delayed them.
Here in the Seattle area there's a wealthy suburban island enclave whose citizens are so fed up with obstructionist cyclists and club rides interfering with traffic the local government is considering all sorts of nebulously illegal restrictions like banning non residents from cycling!, requiring groups greater than six to register in advance, requiring bike registration to ride there, etc. Never mind that a county MUP runs across the island, as well as all the public streets. The verdict is still out, but these citizens are collectively strongly against cycling and most wouldn't mind if bikes were banned on "their" island roads.
There has to be a term for self-centered middle class white trash you find in the suburbs- the image conscious, brand chasing, materialistic kind that don't recycle and don't like bikes.
There has to be a term for self-centered middle class white trash you find in the suburbs- the image conscious, brand chasing, materialistic kind that don't recycle and don't like bikes.
There is. NIMBY
People suck.
Drivers suck.
Bicyclists suck.
The middle class sucks.
White people suck.
Damn, I belong to all these groups. I must suck too.
Here in OKC there are three lakes with roads that wind around the lakes. Two of them also have recreational paths all the way around. Often while riding or driving these roads I will come up on multiple cyclists side by side, taking up the whole road. Sometimes it's the race types, sometimes it's groups going 5 to 10 mph. Even as an avid, passionate, life long cyclist the simple inconsideration of these people for others makes me extremely angry. People who don't ride are less understanding and also tend to look as all cyclists as they do the worst of us. And, when some of us cyclists are out there riding this way and ticking people off it's a wonder the cager only set doesn't push even harder for anti-cycling laws.
Some drivers are going to be jerks no matter what. I have to agree with the idea that if we are considerate to other riders and drivers we will at least get some of that consideration in return. But, if we as riders piss everyone off when we ride all we will have is a whole lot of people pissed off at us.
SS
Here in the Seattle area there's a wealthy suburban island enclave whose citizens are so fed up with obstructionist cyclists and club rides interfering with traffic the local government is considering all sorts of nebulously illegal restrictions like banning non residents from cycling!, requiring groups greater than six to register in advance, requiring bike registration to ride there, etc. Never mind that a county MUP runs across the island, as well as all the public streets. The verdict is still out, but these citizens are collectively strongly against cycling and most wouldn't mind if bikes were banned on "their" island roads.
There has to be a term for self-centered middle class white trash you find in the suburbs- the image conscious, brand chasing, materialistic kind that don't recycle and don't like bikes.
LOL Just drove thru Seattle a couple weeks ago on a wirlwind tour of PNW... including the San Juans... Went to Pike Place Market... have heard of it for over 20 years from a former shipmate.
At any rate, at no time while in Seattle and in and around the downtown area or anywhere in the PNW was I delayed by a single cyclist... even in the San Juans where I saw many cyclists enjoying the pace of the islands. Now autos, that is another story. Near bumper to bumper traffic on the 5... Yup, must be caused by all those damn cyclists. (Sarcastic grin)
I think those proposing all these "rules" on cyclists need a good reality check. Period. I doubt anyone anywhere has ever been delayed by a cyclist by any more time than it takes to wait for a typical elevator... and even less than it takes to wait for a typical stoplight.
Sigh...
On many a weekend ride, solo or with a small group, the beginning of the ride will go through a local reservoir. There are no bike paths, but the road is blocked for a distence of 2 miles or so on weekends to promote recreational use.
So, during these periods on the weekends when the road is free of cars, it is taken over by familys walking, biking, rollerbladding walking dogs - you name it. Sometimes I have gone through in the early morning to find a group of runners utilizing the road. I can tell by the amount of participants, that the run is some sort of semi-organized event. Every single time I have passed through this area on bike while the run is being conducted, I find myself closing head-on to one or more groups of runners running 4 abreast and taking up the entire lane I am using. Now, mind you when EVER I ride this area when it is closed to autos, I go much slower than I would if it were open. But these runners often like to play a game of chicken. And, many times the opposite lane is populated with other users, so changing lanes would not always be safe. So, I ride just to the right of the yellow line and do not deviate. Last time I did this, the group of 4 runners split in the middle and I went right between them at about 17 MPH.
drivers can chill out. since when did the speed limit become the speed minimum anyway? if the posted limit is 45 does that mean they can't ever go slower than that? of course not. it wouldn't kill anyone to slow to 20 and wait until it's safe to pass.
Here in OKC there are three lakes with roads that wind around the lakes. Two of them also have recreational paths all the way around. Often while riding or driving these roads I will come up on multiple cyclists side by side, taking up the whole road. Sometimes it's the race types, sometimes it's groups going 5 to 10 mph. Even as an avid, passionate, life long cyclist the simple inconsideration of these people for others makes me extremely angry. People who don't ride are less understanding and also tend to look as all cyclists as they do the worst of us. And, when some of us cyclists are out there riding this way and ticking people off it's a wonder the cager only set doesn't push even harder for anti-cycling laws.
Some drivers are going to be jerks no matter what. I have to agree with the idea that if we are considerate to other riders and drivers we will at least get some of that consideration in return. But, if we as riders piss everyone off when we ride all we will have is a whole lot of people pissed off at us.
SS
And what is the speed limit on those roads. 25, 30, 35 mph? Would it kill you to just slow your car down and drive the same speed as the cyclists? What's your dang blasted rush. Your are not a professianal driver on a closed course. Making drivers slow down is not inconsideration. It's called TAFFIC CALMING. Some communities are spending tons of money on traffic calming measures trying to get drivers to slow down through their streets.
Perhaps cyclists would do better to wear overalls. :rolleyes:LOL, I wear bib shorts, does that count? :)
Since we both have equal rights to the road, you could say the same about (to) the offended cagers.
What is interesting is that when I was on a highway in Alsaka between Anchorage and Seward, they had signs all over the place that if there are more than 3 (or was it 5) vehicles behind you, by law you must pull over to let the others pass... it isn't such a far-fetched sentiment. There are some responsibilities that come with the rights to the road.
Here in the Seattle area there's a wealthy suburban island enclave whose citizens are so fed up with obstructionist cyclists and club rides interfering with traffic the local government is considering all sorts of nebulously illegal restrictions like banning non residents from cycling!, requiring groups greater than six to register in advance, requiring bike registration to ride there, etc. Never mind that a county MUP runs across the island, as well as all the public streets. The verdict is still out, but these citizens are collectively strongly against cycling and most wouldn't mind if bikes were banned on "their" island roads.
There has to be a term for self-centered middle class white trash you find in the suburbs- the image conscious, brand chasing, materialistic kind that don't recycle and don't like bikes.
What island is that? Mercer?
Yup, Mercer Island, "poverty rock." The Mercer Island city? council have been going at it the last six months or so regarding an expansion of the bike path that cuts across the island. Last I heard, currently the plan was for a very bike unfriendly option. Banning bikes because of club rides holding up locals on "their" roads is a long standing issue, but has heated up there in the last year or so as well. The suggestion of banning non resident cyclists is one of the most un American, vile, self-centered examples of suburbanism at its worst.
I doubt anyone anywhere has ever been delayed by a cyclist by any more time than it takes to wait for a typical elevator... and even less than it takes to wait for a typical stoplight.Sigh...
I've been on group rides that can form up 20 or more riders in a single group. The front of this group stops or slows for nothing other than oncoming traffic. When I see a vehicle behind us I'll get over & ride single file, but many will remain two (or more) abreast. Vehicles have been held up for several minutes behind us. I could see them getting a little steamed. I would.
I've been on group rides that can form up 20 or more riders in a single group. The front of this group stops or slows for nothing other than oncoming traffic. When I see a vehicle behind us I'll get over & ride single file, but many will remain two (or more) abreast. Vehicles have been held up for several minutes behind us. I could see them getting a little steamed. I would.
They are not being "held up" they are only having to slow down to the speed of the bicyclists. They are not having to come to a complete stop, as if for a construction flagger. So they get there a little slower. Traffic is traffic. This notion that because you are in a motor vehicle that is capable of 120 mph entitles you to travel as fast as you wish, and everyone should keep out of your way, is bunk.
This notion that because you are in a motor vehicle that is capable of 120 mph entitles you to travel as fast as you wish, and everyone should keep out of your way, is bunk.True. On the other hand, if the cyclists are in a marked travel lane that they're comfortable sharing with overtaking traffic, wouldn't it be polite for the group to single up?
...the ride will go through a local reservoir...
Where did you learn these underwater riding techniques? :p
And what is the speed limit on those roads. 25, 30, 35 mph? Would it kill you to just slow your car down and drive the same speed as the cyclists? What's your dang blasted rush. Your are not a professianal driver on a closed course. Making drivers slow down is not inconsideration. It's called TAFFIC CALMING. Some communities are spending tons of money on traffic calming measures trying to get drivers to slow down through their streets.
I intensely dislike the role of cyclist as speed bump...but I think the 'faster, more power' attitude of many motorists is fostered by the 'prof driver closed course' adverts the car and truck manufacturers constantly bombard us with. Seems like the manufacturers must have some liability here vis-a-vis cyclist injuries / deaths? I wonder how that would play out in court with a good attorney?
As much as 'Sharing the Road' is a great theory it will never be
realistic in practice and you might get yourself hurt by excercising your
same right to the road with cars . Cars hate ANYTHING that
slows them down but unfortunately unlike a huge piece of farm or construction
equipment they can safely and with somewhat anonimity vent thier rage onto
a cyclist with little chance of having to suffer repercussions.
I stay out of cars way and have to be creative about it occasionally.
Conversely, I am a human too.....I remember many, many times where I
would be driving home from my job in Wilmington at what are known to be high
volume traffic times and being stuck behind a group of militant roadies who
would not move over to let me by. Sorry, after 8 hours of dealing with @$$h***'s
all day long and then encountering them when I am off the clock and just want
to get home to ride my own bike I am not going to support the 'Share the Road' theory
either. MOVE OVER !
I intensely dislike the role of cyclist as speed bump...but I think the 'faster, more power' attitude of many motorists is fostered by the 'prof driver closed course' adverts the car and truck manufacturers constantly bombard us with. Seems like the manufacturers must have some liability here vis-a-vis cyclist injuries / deaths? I wonder how that would play out in court with a good attorney?
I've thought the same thing many times.
If beer company advertisements portrayed 20 somethings doing funnels of their product you can bet they're azzes would wind up in court, so why do car companies get away with ads that display the same level of irresponsible and potentially deadly behavior?
VROOM VROOM VROOM.
... you might get yourself hurt by excercising your same right to the road Or not. The good news is that the better you operate your vehicle (whether pedal or motor powered) according to the shared Rules of the Road, the better your odds of not getting hurt (or hurting anyone else).
Cars hate ANYTHING that slows them down Nobody loves having to wait for other traffic, but that's not a valid excuse for violating the equal right that each of us has to travel.
BTW, I've yet to meet a vehicle (whether pedal or motor powered) that feels hate (or love).
BTW, I've yet to meet a vehicle (whether pedal or motor powered) that feels hate (or love).
BTW, I've yet to read of anybody but VC ideologues who repeatedly make an issue of the common phraseology of anthropomorphizing motor vehicles's behavior (rather than their drivers). Doubly ironic when the same pedants insist on using stilted terms like "bicycle drivers" or emotionally loaded tems associated with racial strife to describe various bicycling facilities.
Well, all I can really say is this, I have a drive say to me "get on the f****** sidewalk," then I said, "read the f****** sign," the sign said, "No Bicycles on Sidewalk." He stop at a stop light where I cought up to him, I keep away from his window I was so mad, I would of seen if my Halt worked, or if my new NY3k is really that tuff, but no I eat my feeling. I was going 25 mph in a 30 mph zone. You got to take a lane somethings, they need to get over it.
GEEK
BTW, I've yet to read of anybody but VC ideologues who repeatedly make an issue of the common phraseology of anthropomorphizing motor vehicles's behavior (rather than their drivers). Doubly ironic when the same pedants insist on using stilted terms like "bicycle drivers" or emotionally loaded tems associated with racial strife to describe various bicycling facilities.
For your amusement, I have color coded the "emotionally loaded" terms that you used in your own post. I hope you don't mind.
Or not. The good news is that the better you operate your vehicle (whether pedal or motor powered) according to the shared Rules of the Road, the better your odds of not getting hurt (or hurting anyone else).
Nobody loves having to wait for other traffic, but that's not a valid excuse for violating the equal right that each of us has to travel.
BTW, I've yet to meet a vehicle (whether pedal or motor powered) that feels hate (or love).
Getting outside, actually riding your bike and being around other human beings
will not only raise your level of awareness so as to have an understanding of
the subject matter being discussed but also lessen some of the anger you have
pent-up inside and feel the need to unburden yourself of to people over the internet.
Have a great day ! :)
... VC ideologues ...
Ah, that's a nice juicy label to slap on those who dare to deliver a disagreeable message! Much less risky than just discussing the message strictly on its own merits (unless other readers of the thread happen to recognize disinformation tactic (http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html) #5 when they see it)
#5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule.
This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'fanatics', 'deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.
... the same pedants insist on using stilted ... tems associated with racial strife ... AKA disinformation tactic (http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html) #2
#2. Become incredulous and indignant.
Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the 'How dare you!' gambit.
Getting outside, actually riding your bike and being around other human beings will not only raise your level of awareness ...Out of the 25 listed, disinformation tactic (http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html) #18 seems to be the best fit this time:
18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents.
If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.'
I'd prefer that we stick to discussing the messages instead of dissing the messengers.
*SniFfLe* Luv ya, man *sNiFfLe*
Have a great day :)
I'd prefer that we stick to discussing the messages instead of dissing the messengers.
I'm sure the "Messenger" would like his message taken seriously, and stifle any discussion that identifies his "message" as nonsense and just the same dogmatic mantra repeated ad nauseum.
Well Farmer Brown is seen as a working man contributing to the needs of the masses, where as bikers wearing spandex are seen as "clowns" out playing. This is especially true of club group riders. Few cyclists are seen as transportation... much less "contributing to the good of others." Perhaps cyclists would do better to wear overalls. :rolleyes:
Or perhaps a Haybale on the rear rack which for unknown reason is still the law for drivers in Australia that they must have a haybale in the boot.
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