Fifty Plus (50+) - Am I the Last Friction Shifter ??

Not trying to bring up the ghosts of a long-lost controversy or be a retropath Olde Farte, so please read on. This a.m. I was riding beside my Friend-with-Ultegra-Ten-Cogs. I was on my barcon friction 7spd SunTour XC Pro Bridgestone. We both reached for the fd shifter and, while I got mine pretty thoughtlessly (even with moving my hand 5 inches), he was still trying to trim using his microdetants or whatever they're called. His rear shift wasn't much better. Admittedly, he just needed some tuning-- but he's had it into the LBS twice. I also admit that I envy his shifting out of the saddle on climbs. Otherwise, am I really missing all that much? 10 speeds would be lovely, and I'm sure with those close set cogs pretty unworkable with "manual" shifting, but still......

Anyway, I enjoy the simplicity and sense of control of friction shifting.

My Question::: ANYBODY ELSE OUT THERE STILL DOING FRICTION BY CHOICE ?

Yes, you are. :)

Damn, I should have known...only person who will ride with me these days is some guy named Fred. 8-)

Say, am I the last guy here still wearing wool?

if it works for you, Why change? I regret passing on my friction changers to a hard up friend when I upgraded an old Mountain Bike that had done some good years service. They may not be cool, they are irreplacable, but they work. Particulaly when things gets a bit muddy, and the Derailler gets twisted or old.

I can take them or leave them. Friction shifters on my road bike, indexed shifters on my recumbent. Both work fine.

I agree with neilG. Also, the only thing I ever allow to be "twisted and old" on my bike is - me. :)

I put 105 brifters on my Soma Double Cross when I built it recently. I don't like them. I wish I had gone with barcons instead, but these were expensive enough that I guess I'll ride it this way until they break, then convert to barcons.

My Question::: ANYBODY ELSE OUT THERE STILL DOING FRICTION BY CHOICE ?

Yep - I friction shift. I do it because I like to swap components on my bike frequently (Campy to Shimano to Suntour). It becomes SIGNIFICANTLY harder to friction shift with more cogs on the cassette! 7-speed friction works fine; 8-speed friction is difficult; 9 or 10-speed friction just isn't doable for me. I'm currently running an 8-speed rear, and am thinking of either going back to index (just to avoid the excessive trimming that is required with friction) or going to a 7-speed cassette on my hub with a spacer.

Obviously, front friction is a no-brainer, even with triples.

Friction is the only way to fly if one wants to "mix and match" components.

I agree with the mix and match. On my 7 speed Bridgestone I have a Mavic, SunTour, Shimano drive train and a cheesy parts bin Sakae crank that has more miles on it than I have gray hairs.

Many bikes today are so homogeniously the same. Sure, they perform well (mostly), but riders are so bound by dedicated, highly engineered components that it is hard to create a bike that is uniquely your own, or exchange parts....mix and match to suit your style or your ride that weekend. Used to be more fun to go to organized rides and see what people were using and in what combinations. Lots of cool conversations got started.

Oh well.

I would say that your friend with the ultegra ten cogs has some problem with his system. STI works very well in my experience, if it doesn't, fix it. I have barcons on two bikes, but since I have 9sp, I use index on the back. I am just too spastic to friction shift with the narrow spacing. That's just me...I am sure that others are better at it. Nothing wrong with friction....but when you get a little deef and maladroit, the index stuff starts to look good.

Still got friction and barcons on two bikes, though I gave in and went eight-speed (I don't think it's an improvement). Just bought TWO wool jerseys, my first, and I love 'em. Still got Brooks saddles on three bikes. Luvva God, I'm 60 years old. If I can't ride what I like now, when will I ever be able to?
FWIW, which is certainly not much, I can sort of imagine why people without my natural talent would want index shifting, but the lure of 10-speed completely eludes me. Six may have been an improvement over five, seven didn't work better than six and everything since then has added more complication than help. My first bike when I got back into cycling after a 15-year post-college layoff was a mountain bike with five-speed freewheel and Suntour derailleur. I used to ride it through the hills around Reno and it would grind up sagebrush limbs as thick as pencils. Now my XTR stuff jams up if it gets dust on it.

Hey! I ride in Florida. Not a lot of climbs and lots of wind. I have six road bikes, five of them are Super Record (read: friction). My sixth bike is an Eddy Merckx scandium with full Record (read: 10 speed index).

I still like the friction stuff. I keep all my bikes light and, with friction shifters, I have lighter brake levers. Keep in mind that the old Campy Super Record stuff is light even by today's standards. Although I like my index-shifting Eddy, I've got to tell you that the smoothness of my older S/R setups is really unsurpassed. Keep in mind that in Florida I ride with relatively tight clusters (I use between 12-17's and 12-18's) of six speeds. My Eddy is a 10 speed but I never use past the 18. Front chainrings are 42/53.

I just got back from Colorado where I did some good climbing on index-shifting setups. I can appreciate both and can only add that I think the argument is fairly mute. If racing, I would go with well-adjusted index since that is one less thing to be concerned about. If training however, or an aggressive fitness rider as I am, friction is just fine and much easier to maintain...very bullet-proof too.

I'm about to "go back", as I'm putting together a 1983 Cilo with friction shifters.

I do have a modern Trek roadster (2120) with Shimano 105 brake/shift levers, and they're very nice indeed. Comfortable too.

Still, I was pretty handy with friction levers some years ago.

I have firction shifters on the old Fuji I am riding when I visit another city 4 days a month. I haven't used tham in about 25 years. So far I hate them. I hope that I learn to love them--I'm trying!

I am not alone.....bless you all!

I am 29 and use friction by choice. I don't like being forced to buy matching components. But what I like most is the relatively silent and smooth shifting action. It just feels better.

Read my posts under "classic and vintage" and "mechanics." Indexed rear shifting "solves" a non-existent problem, and indexed front shifting is a huge step backward.

UO-8: SunTour ratchet friction barcons
Capo and Bianchi: original Campag. friction downtube levers
PKN-10: SunTour friction downtube levers (considering ratchet barcons)
Schwinn: SunTour thumb levers in friction mode

Alas, your not! I would like to leave the coven of friction shifting on my road bike but I have not found replacements for the friction shifters on my Super Le Tour. I'm working on it.

Joe

Raleigh 531c with Campy Super Record/Nuevo Record 6-speed freewheel with friction shifters mounted on the downtube. One of the quietest, finest shifting bikes I own.

[QUOTE=GrannyGear My Question::: ANYBODY ELSE OUT THERE STILL DOING FRICTION BY CHOICE ?[/QUOTE]

Absolutely, friction shifting and wool apparel will never die.

Funny you should mention that. Normally I ride a "fixie" -- that is, no shifters at all. However, I have (or had) a Trek 1000 that I use where I consult. Between the teeth-rattling aluminum frame and the bar-end shifters that I could never get quite right, I decided just last Friday to swap it out for an older friction-shifting 15 speed Centurion. The Centurion is quieter and easier to shift. What more can I say?

Jim

I decided just last Friday to swap it out for an older friction-shifting 15 speed Centurion. The Centurion is quieter and easier to shift. What more can I say? Jim

Jim -- My Centurion is an early 80's ProTour 15, bronze in color. The 5 spd cassette became 6 many years ago. And Yes the drivetrain is quiet and easy to maintain.

Of course, all of us in this 50+ forum have used friction for many, many years, liked it, MASTERED IT, and don't want to admit that there may be technology that is better. Now, for me, indexed is the ONLY way to go. Let's move on...

Of course, all of us in this 50+ forum have used friction for many, many years, liked it, MASTERED IT, and don't want to admit that there may be technology that is better.

Bad assumption -- 1. many 50+ers have been riding less than 10 years and never experienced friction, 2. I think the majority of us with indexed shifting and brifters sing the praises of the new technology (but that doesn't mean that we can't also appreciate the downtube, friction systems for simplicity, smoothness and low maintenance).

What Wildwood said, but with a qualification. 25 years ago I bought a Peugeot with downtube shifters, and after a period of adjustment got the hang of it and never complained. Later bought a Trek touring bike, also w/downtube shifters. Then I got away from cycling, and when I tried to resume this year the shifting drove me nuts. To simplify my life I bought a new bike with indexed shifting, and I've no regrets. But the lesson is that frequent, habitual riding makes friction a snap.

don't want to admit that there may be technology that is better. Let's move on...

PS -- I'm NOT a retrogrouch ---- at least not until someone disses my older bikes or accuses me of being grouchy.

Price: D/A brifters= $400+ = Over-engineered, pricey, too many itsy-bitsy parts.
D/A barcons under $100 = simple, efficient, w-a-y less $$.
Your choice . . .

Thanks, Wildwood, not to mention a smooth, buttery feeling ... no magic to it any more than thoughtlessly flushing the toilet. But that simplicity and close connection to the derailleur which in turn links to legs and heart does feel right. Good to have both, but wouldn't want to lose that thoughtless ease, and for me personally, wistful reminders of when I started riding with N.R. shifters. Nothing retro-elitist or old time brotherhood about it. And it doesn't take much to train the fingers. And the parts are relatively cheap on ebay. You might even feel like one of those sepia toned old road warriors in antique Tour prints.



*** Next post let's celebrate fig newtons and YooHoo. 8-)

My Question::: ANYBODY ELSE OUT THERE STILL DOING FRICTION BY CHOICE ?
Heck ya!!! I'm only 23, and I'm friction shifting by choice on my commuter bike :) With good derailers and a good cassette, it's the smoothest shifting in the world. Plus I paid all of $12 for my shifters, a pair of good ol' SunTour barcons from the 80s. Should last forever.

I switched my racing bike from downtube shifters to STI, and man what a pain they are to get them adjusted properly. Especially the indexed front shifting, I really don't like it. But I grudgingly accept the STIs because when they're set up right, I can shift faster in a race...

Suntour barcons on my Centurion roadbike, Sun Race thumb friction on my recumbent, and index on my Sturmey Archer 3 speed equipped bikes :>)

Simple is as simple does and these work well for me.

I am 42 and have friction shifters on my Bike friday.I am tempted to retrofit them to my comfort bike.Wildwood you are not a retrogrouch .You are a user of appropriate technology.I wear wool to ride in the winter.

I use friction shifting and 9 speed cassettes by choice on several bicycles. There are no problems at all shifting with the 9 speed setup, actually the shifting seems better with the 9 speed setup. I'd like to try 10 speed but there doesn't seem to be much advantage with one more cog.

I went from friction to STI mainly for the ability to keep my hands on the brakes and not at the on downtube shift levers. Also found out that I shifted more into lower gears when I really needed to just because it was easier -- made the hills go a lot better!!

I'd say the advantage would be away from friction...

Hey Granny:

I ride my 1971 Raleigh 10 speed every day. In 1988 I trashed the Huret junque it came with and put some Shimano 600-EX equipment on it, including the friction shifters and it's been great ever since. You ain't alone, young lady.

Dave

Lady? Lady !? I should have gone for a screen name like TurboJock or something. Anyway Raleigh, thanks for the encouragement....strange how people begin coming out of the woodwork admitting to bucking trends. I savor the fact that olde stuff (without worshipping it simply for its cachet of "ye oldeness") keeps going and going and going. And without a lot of time spend tweaking, adjusting, tensioning, etc. I've blown shifts, but my shifters have never failed me.
David, too.

I have downtube shifters but the right one lets you choose between indexed or friction. I use indexed because it works flawlessly that way.

I went from friction to STI mainly for the ability to keep my hands on the brakes and not at the on downtube shift levers. Also found out that I shifted more into lower gears when I really needed to just because it was easier -- made the hills go a lot better!!

I'd say the advantage would be away from friction...
You can use friction shifters and still keep your hands on the handlebars... bar end shifters :) I do it every day on my touring bike, and it is so smooth to shift that I use pretty much every one of possible gear combinations. It's just a few inches from the tops or the drops to the shifters, and it doesn't throw off your balance like DT shifters do. Bar end shifters are cheap, rock-solid reliable, and I can switch to indexing if I ever feel so inclined.

I have a 8 speed friction shifter front and back. I am liking it more and more everyday. Except using some of the mid gears is kind of a PITA sometimes. I still love it. Has a unique feeling to it

I've been using friction shifters for my whole life - hadn't even tried the new indexed shifters until 2 weeks ago when I tried them on a buddy's bike. I now have a new bike on order with index shifters. I can't believe I resisted trying them for so long.

What is friction shifting? I don't want to appear clueless, but I guess I am because I just don't know. And if I can't ask on this thread without some wiseass remark then I must be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Please keep in mind that I'm a 61-year old newbie who has gotten the bug! I love my bike but I don't think it has friction shifting since that sounds like an old bike thing, but I might be wrong. Who knows? Certainly not moi!

Mary Ann,
I'd like to think you can ask anything here. Most posters at 50Plus only get wiseass when it matches the intent or content of the question. I think people try to avoid what happens commonly in other places.

Friction shifting is what used-to-be before indexed shifting arrived in the late 80's. Indexing uses detents or little "stops" inside the shifter that puts or removes just enough tension on the shifter cable to move it to the next detent-- and as it does so, it moves your derailleur just the right distance so your chain can neatly (if all is adjusted adequately) engage the next cog or chainring. shift/click, shift/click, shift/click... each click is your shifter stopping at or passing a detent and causing the chain to land on the next gear.

Friction shifting had and has no detents or stops in the shifter. The shifter moves freeling back and forth and so it is up to you manually by touch and "feel" to move the derailleur back and forth to where the chain lands on the right cog or freewheel. If you misjudge, your chain rattles a bit and you "trim" by moving the lever a tad to get that chain to mesh with the gear teeth.

In practice, it becomes second nature and can be very satisfying to get a solid ka-chunk and feel you are directly connected to your bike. OTH, missing a shift on a steep hill or with that vicious rottweiller vectoring on you can be frustrating.

A few olde fartes and young individualists hang on to friction because it is elegant, retro, shifters on e-bay are cheap or out in the garage because they last almost forever w/o wearing out.....and it simply feels good.

In the end, its no big deal.

Thank you so much for answering my question and for all the information. I had a Centurion LeMans (I think) in 1971 that was a 10-speed I think. Whatever, I used to go from Laguna Beach, CA to work as a waitress when I was a 20-something to Newport Beach, CA. I used my Centurion. I either went in one gear or used the gears or whatever. I have no recall about the gearing of that bike. I just got on the bike and rode it. I don't even know if I ever shifted....probably not! I think I probably just used it as a fixed gear bike and I was probably in great shape and didn't care. Isn't that something to ponder? I wish I had it so I could see what I actually did to ride it that far for that long. When you're young you can do anything, and so I did. I wish I had that bike to look at it. I don't. I'm really sorry about that.

I have indexed/friction on my downtube shifters, but I literally never use the index option. I just like friction better. If you know how, it's much smoother than all but Ultegra/DA level STI. Just my opinion, no flames please.

Interesting discussion. Up to this year I raced 6sp Regina's with Suntour Superbe Pro, arguably the best friction shifting setup there is. Suntour shift levers are downright elegant. Got a new bike this year with DA STI. No comparison! Seems pointless now to ride the old stuff. But I still feel like a traitor.

sun

I like this thread, of course this discussion has been going on in one form or another since bronze speartips began to replace those retro obsidian things.

Two bikes, both simple downtube friction shifters because they're the simplest, lightest and most reliable method of gear selection and since I'm not racing there's no need to throw microsecond timed shifts while my hands stay on the bars.

There is one area where friction shifters have a decided advantage over indexed shifters and that is when you want to move from a large cog to to a smaller one several gears away. As far as I know, very few indexed shifters and none of the more recent indexed systems can jump more than 3 gears at a time "pulling" and only 1 gear at a time "slacking off". One of my bikes is a 15 speed Centurion with friction shifting (both front and back). When I am in the largest cog pulling a hill and reach the summit, all I have to do is move the right downtube lever all the way forward and, voila, I'm in my highest gear. On either of my indexed Bianchis it's here-a-click, there-a-click until I finally reach the desired gear. Or is there a way around this one-at-a-time shifting that I don't know about?

Jim

The only thing that looks better to me than friction shifters is the internally-geared multi speed hubs. Anyone tried them?

I'm new to bicycling. I am currently on an older borrowed bike and just learned from this thread that I'm a dinosaur using friction shifters. I also have a mtn bike with those click to shift triggers. Up until this thread I thought road bikes use the downtube 'friction' shifters while mtn bikes use the triggers.

So I suppose I'm backwards road rider as well as being a newbie. Doesn't seem to hinder my enjoyment of riding the sun up each morning.

yea the friction shifting doesn't take anything away from it. I like the fact that you can shift to the right gear really fast without clicking away at it. It does get annoying when you want to pop it into one smaller cog on the back(takes a bit of adjusting for it not to make any noise) but its definately worth it. I love the design and I never had a chain slip off or fall.

Dinosaur? I like the the classic look :D.

as someone who just starting riding again after roughly 20 years off, I've found it a joy to use the new indexed shifting.

I was accustomed to the friction shifting, and always used shifting at the end of the bars (we used to call them goodie-levers), and was adept at shifting. But the index shifting is much quicker and I like the click of getting set in the right position.

That being said, I agree with Jim Shapiro after I bought a new bike with Shimano 105, I was frustrated by having to shift a cog at a time on the rear cassette. (I was also frustrated by the difficulty of trimming the front derailleur).

So my LBS graciously (but at a price) stripped out the 105 and replaced it with Campy Centaur, which will shift multiple cogs up and down and trim the front. (though I can't do all 10 cogs at a time)

I'm very happy and don't miss the friction shifting at all. Sometimes so-called improvements are real improvements after all.