Passing on the Left

[HumdrumPG]

OK, I've searched this forum somewhat extensively and I guess I found an answer to my question, but I'm still going to go ahead and ask it to get some direct responses:

If there's a long line of cars stopped at a red light, is it alright to pass them on the left? My problem with doing so is that oftentimes I notice cars coming in the opposite direction leave very little room for me to do this safely. I do it anyways, though, because I fear the door zone even more.

[Bikepacker67]

You shouldn't be passing them at all. Right or Left.

You should be taking the lane BEHIND the cars waiting for the light, instead of making those cars RE-PASS you after the light turns green.

[Helmet Head]

Well, he did say a long line of cars. If it's long enough such that you wouldn't make the next green cycle, then passing is worth considering. Do whatever motorcyclists would do. If there is room for them to pass on the left safely, then there is room for you to do so. If not , then not. Wait, even if it means waiting a cycle. You're outside. You're on your bike. What's the hurry?

[Lord Chambers]

If you're going to pass, why would you pass on the left? Whether it's a long line in a left turn lane, or a long line in a right turn lane, or a long line just going straight, seems to me the right side would be where you'd want to be.

[Bikepacker67]

Well, he did say a long line of cars. If it's long enough such that you wouldn't make the next green cycle, then passing is worth considering.

Are we legal vehicles, or aren't we?
Don't you think that if we are demanding rights to the road, we should assume the responsibilities - including being caught in traffic?


Do whatever motorcyclists would do.


Not a chance.
Donorcycles are what they really are.




Wait, even if it means waiting a cycle. You're outside. You're on your bike. What's the hurry?

Now THAT I can drink to. :D

[HumdrumPG]

yeah, I was thinking of particularly "long" lines of cars, where the cars I'm passing won't make the next green. I agree that we should act like cars, and pass only when there's room to pass. But I'm talking about situations where the oncoming cars either go over the yellow line or come really close to doing so. In these situations, I feel that I should be able to pass on the left and the only thing preventing me from doing so is someone too far over - but then again, maybe I'm too far over. That's why I'm asking, I guess.

As far as getting caught in traffic: I'm perfectly willing to get caught in traffic, if there's really something for me to get caught by. But I don't see why not zip up to the front of a line of cars waiting at a red light. If nothing else, it makes drivers jealous and maybe they'll end up on a bike, too. Well . . . I can always dream . .

[HumdrumPG]

the reason I don't want to pass on the right is my fear of the door zone. Granted, passing on the left may present me with an entirely new zone altogether; the front grill of a Mack truck zone.

[Bikepacker67]

But I don't see why not zip up to the front of a line of cars waiting at a red light.

Look...
It's really simple.

Drivers don't like to pass cyclists.
They get nervous, they get jumpy, and that makes them get mad and defensive.

Why make cars that have already passed you, pass you again?

It's rude, if nothing else.
The only way we are going to get a smidgen of consideration is by doing those "little things" that make it less stressful for cagers to deal with us.

[pedex]

Sometimes passing said cagers when they are stopped prevents them from ever having the chance to pass you at all, ever consider that?

[Bikepacker67]

Sometimes passing said cagers when they are stopped prevents them from ever having the chance to pass you at all, ever consider that?

If they're waiting at the light in front of you, there's a dang good chance they've already passed you once.

And maybe you have 180 gear inches and the thighs to pump them, but most cyclists just get re-passed by all those fellow sharers of the road that they feel their "special status" allows them to temporarily circumvent.

[pedex]

If they're waiting at the light in front of you, there's a dang good chance they've already passed you once.

And maybe you have 180 gear inches and the thighs to pump them, but most cyclists just get re-passed by all those fellow sharers of the road that they feel their "special status" allows them to temporarily circumvent.

No, I just ride alot in a downtown area(its my job) where the speed limit is 25mph for the most part and I pass cars all the time, downtown areas tend to put the jedi mind phuck on people and they average about 18mph or less in traffic.

[randya]

I for one am not going to wait behind a long line of cars breathing exhaust fumes and waiting through multiple light cycles. Right or left, whichever makes more sense. FYI, after Jan 1 2006, it will be legal to pass on the right in Oregon.

[Bikepacker67]

I for one am not going to wait behind a long line of cars breathing exhaust fumes and waiting through multiple light cycles.

Well aren't you special.

[HumdrumPG]

First of all, I agree with Pedex. I don't know where you ride mostly, Bikepacker, but I ride mostly in the city, where it's very reasonable to expect to beat a car from point A to point B, as long as you pass cars that are stopped at a red light.

Secondly, your idea of how cyclists should interact with the road and other traffic isn't very progressive. Imagine if our traffic systems had never adapted to the increased use of automobiles. Shouldn't our traffic systems similarly adapt to increased use by bicycles. Shouldn't there be some deference to how WE feel being passed by cars! I know that drivers often get jittery passing cyclists, but I think that many cyclists (especially beginners) are even more jittery about getting passed by those same jittery drivers.

Thirdly, you're implying that, by waiting behind the end of the line of cars at each light, cyclists should essentially reduce their overall average speed, and thus riding time/commute time/whatever by a significant factor. You implied that someone is being selfish, or "special," if they don't want to wait behind a long line of cars, breathing exhaust fumes, etc. So, cyclists are selfish for not wanting to wait, but the drivers of the cars aren't selfish for not wanting to "get jittery" passing bikes? Or for wanting to speed off to their destinations? I understand that we have to learn to live along with the cars. That's fine. I don't mean to say it's us vs. them. I have no problem with people driving cars, but I'm NOT going to conform my behavior to some ridiculous set of standards to appease the drivers. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

[Bikepacker67]

You better read the rules of the road bud.

You're either a sidewalk riding newbie, or you're a VEHICLE.

VEHICLES are expected to wait their turn thru intersections!

Don't believe me? A motorcyclist who rides up to the front can be legally ticketed every time.

[HumdrumPG]

Originally Posted by Bikepacker67
Well yes.. that's common sense.

If there's a shoulder 2 yards wide (or BL) then you're not inconveniencing anyone - but you best be looking for left blinkers as you approach the front - and when you've stopped make sure you make eye contact with the folks behind you and let them know your intent.
.



Hmmm, this sounds familiar . . .

[Roody]

Well aren't you special.
And aren't you snotty.

[Bikepacker67]

Originally Posted by Bikepacker67
Well yes.. that's common sense.

If there's a shoulder 2 yards wide (or BL) then you're not inconveniencing anyone - but you best be looking for left blinkers as you approach the front - and when you've stopped make sure you make eye contact with the folks behind you and let them know your intent.
.



Hmmm, this sounds familiar . . .


Yes. I wasn't clear enough in my initial bytch.

I'm talking inner city (or narrow suburb) roads where cyclists flaunt their disrepect for everyone else waiting in traffic.

C'mon folks, admit it... there is a lane-wide streak of self righteous superiority in many of you pedal powered commutists.

I am one, so I see it every day.

(And I'm not absolving the atrocious antics of the piston pumpers - but if you REALLY want cycle advocacy, it starts with looking at both sides of the problem)

[Hawkear]

What kind of troll are you, Bikepacker67?
Donorcycles are what they really are.Glad you can assert your argument with an ad-hominem attack against motorcyclists. In the state of California, where Helmet Head and I are from, this special class of vehicles is legally allowed to filter through stopped traffic, so it's not out of the realm of consideration for a bicyclist, who has a smaller profile and should be more nimble, to filter through a long line of traffic.
I'm talking inner city (or narrow suburb) roads where cyclists flaunt their disrepect for everyone else waiting in traffic.
...
And I'm not absolving the atrocious antics of the piston pumpersYou seem to be flaunting your disrespect for the "piston pumpers" here. Which side are you on?

[Roody]

Yes. I wasn't clear enough in my initial bytch.

I'm talking inner city (or narrow suburb) roads where cyclists flaunt their disrepect for everyone else waiting in traffic.

C'mon folks, admit it... there is a lane-wide streak of self righteous superiority in many of you pedal powered commutists.

I am one, so I see it every day.

(And I'm not absolving the atrocious antics of the piston pumpers - but if you REALLY want cycle advocacy, it starts with looking at both sides of the problem)Have you ever actually heard anybody complain about cyclists filtering forward at a light? Please give specifics--who complained, under what circumstances, what their beef was. I'm not sure this was a problem until you made it one.

[Bikepacker67]

Have you ever actually heard anybody complain about cyclists filtering forward at a light?

Yes.
As well as a cyclist, I also have been known to both drive and be a passenger in a car.

It is ANNOYING to have to safely pass a cyclist TWICE on a narrow thoroughfare.

I truly am amazed by the elitist arrogance displayed by my fellow cyclists.
It's as if you're all John Kerry clones.

[Hawkear]

I truly am amazed by the elitist arrogance displayed by my fellow cyclists.
It's as if you're all John Kerry clones.What is your evidence of this "elitist arrogance"?

[oboeguy]

I for one am not going to wait behind a long line of cars breathing exhaust fumes and waiting through multiple light cycles. Right or left, whichever makes more sense. FYI, after Jan 1 2006, it will be legal to pass on the right in Oregon.

Word. Pass on the right. Yes, we are on vehicles but we are not in cars. This is like the whole ERA thing -- some people want "equal rights" but don't want, for example, unisex bathrooms. Men and women while almost the same, are different. Same goes for cars and bikes, IMO. :)

[Bikepacker67]

What is your evidence of this "elitist arrogance"?


The idea that you can act as a vehicle when it serves your purpose, and be a traffic scofflaw when it suits your whim.

[Hawkear]

Bzzt! Try again.

I said evidence, not an idea that you made up.

[Bikepacker67]

Your actions support my idea.

[Hawkear]

Whose actions?

Stop stalling, and come up with some content.

[Anthony King]

I'm getting through the light as long as it's safe and clear. What's so hard about repassing somebody? You check the next lane, turn a wheel, and press or depress pedals as appropriate. Poor wittle babies. Somebody start a fundraiser.

The idea that my bike slows anyone down is ridiculous--my bike takes up about 2.5 feet of the roadway--the problem is their (and most of their fellows) hulking vehicles take up whole lanes. What's slowing them down is that their vehicles are too dang big making them a) slower through the light than me and b) less able to pass.

Anyone who disagrees is a capitulating surrender monkey.

[Bikepacker67]

Whose actions?

Stop stalling, and come up with some content.

I did bud.

Your actions (running up to the head of the line) is arrogant and elitist.

It's wanting special compensation (and actually illegal for LEGAL VEHICLES) 'cuz you're convinced you're a special person for not travelling in a car.

[Hawkear]

I did bud.

Your actions (running up to the head of the line) is arrogant and elitist.

It's wanting special compensation (and actually illegal for LEGAL VEHICLES) 'cuz you're convinced you're a special person for not travelling in a car.
Obviously you lack reading comprehension.

In the state of California, where Helmet Head and I are from, this special class of vehicles is legally allowed to filter through stopped traffic, so it's not out of the realm of consideration for a bicyclist, who has a smaller profile and should be more nimble, to filter through a long line of traffic.

[Kyle90]

Umm.. I'm not going to wait in a line of cars when I can easily just move my way up and cross. I don't care what anyone says, it's stupid to sit thorught light, after light. I don't care, I don't have that retarded patience. :)

[Bikepacker67]

Well there ya go...

California. Where they want to license illegal aliens.
Is it any wonder that you left-coasters can't figure out what a VEHICLE should and shouldn't do?

[weed eater]

Look...
It's really simple.

Drivers don't like to pass cyclists.
They get nervous, they get jumpy, and that makes them get mad and defensive.

Why make cars that have already passed you, pass you again?

It's rude, if nothing else.
The only way we are going to get a smidgen of consideration is by doing those "little things" that make it less stressful for cagers to deal with us.

This is interesting...I heard the same logic from a guy (a cyclist) who came up to me and my partner, while we were waiting (two abreast) in line at a stoplight. This guy told us that, since it was rude to drivers to make them wait, we should ride in the gutter (he didn't use those exact words of course) like he did. Now, this guy made an (illegal) uturn and then passed a bunch of cars on the right (who were waiting for the same light we were) at rush hour in order to tell us this. After we patiently told him that we were following the rules of the road, and that we were ensuring our safety as well as that of the drivers', and we received the usual Bay Area non-confrontational crap from him ("Oh, I know what you're doing..."), and thanked him for stopping, he then proceeded to pass the remaining waiting cars, cut across the intersection on a crosswalk, and continue his curb-sucking way down the road.

His stated logic was this: we should get out of the way of cars, because they are "the faster vehicle". (He seemed to think this was the law.) But his true reasoning was the same as yours: don't frustrate motorists, you make bicyclists look bad. We should be thinking about appeasing motorists, in order to raise our reputation.

So? Which is it? Do we frustrate motorists by waiting in line (and arrogantly presuming that we are allowed the same roadspace as them) or do we frustrate motorists by sliding up beside them on the right?

The fact is, if you make decisions based on this, you're putting someone's convenience (or lack of frustration) in front of your safety.

Personally, I make NO decisions about my safety based on anyone else's convenience or frustration. Of course motorists are frustrated--they're in cars! Stuck in traffic!

I nearly always wait in line like a good lane-occupying vehicle. However, sometimes, when the line of traffic stretches for blocks (a situation in which, according to my curb-sucking friend, the cars should all pull over and get out of the faster vehicle's (me!) way), I will carefully make my way up to the front of the line, on the right, ringing my bell, and position myself just to the front-right of the secondmost vehicle, so that driver will see me, and I can see what the front driver is doing. That way I won't get killed.

Because while bicycles are vehicles, we are significantly different vehicles than cars. We share rights and responsibilities, but they are a different set of responsibilities than those for cars. Some of these differences are set out in vehicle codes, and some of them are not.

All that said, and that's a lot, so thanks for reading, I see how most cyclists approach red lights--they race up to the front on the right, carelessly, and when a driver cuts in front of them to go right, or opens a passenger side door, they act as if they have been wronged. Thats cuz the bicyclist, in that case, is ignoring one of Hurst's three rules of urban cycling: Be responsible for your actions.

[Bikepacker67]

I don't have that retarded patience. :)

That's what the motorist says when he passes you unsafely at thrice your speed.

Congratulations - you have just embraced for yourself, what you disdain in others.

[Hawkear]

Well there ya go...

California. Where they want to license illegal aliens.
Is it any wonder that you left-coasters can't figure out what a VEHICLE should and shouldn't do?

Great - no argument, so you fall back on strawmen and ad-hominem attacks.

Is a VEHICLE different from a vehicle? I'm really curious.

[HumdrumPG]

You shouldn't be passing them at all. Right or Left.

You should be taking the lane BEHIND the cars waiting for the light, instead of making those cars RE-PASS you after the light turns green.


" . . .the bicycle operator may keep to the right when passing a motor vehicle which is moving in the travel lane of the way . . ." M.G.L. c. 85 § 11B

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/85-11b.htm


Boo. Yah.

[HumdrumPG]

Round 2

You better read the rules of the road bud.

You're either a sidewalk riding newbie, or you're a VEHICLE.

VEHICLES are expected to wait their turn thru intersections!

Don't believe me? A motorcyclist who rides up to the front can be legally ticketed every time.


" . . .the bicycle operator may keep to the right when passing a motor vehicle which is moving in the travel lane of the way . . ." M.G.L. c. 85 § 11B

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/85-11b.htm


Boo. Yah. Again.

[77Univega]

If there's a long line of cars stopped at a red light, is it alright to pass them on the left?--- In my experience bike commuting in LA, I have never wanted to pass a long line of stopped cars on the left. Besides, the law says for bicyclists to stay on the right. I do indeed make my way carefully to the front of a long line of stopped cars. Hahaha, that is the perk of bike commuting.

[HumdrumPG]

Seems to me, according this "rule of the road," bud, that it's perfectly acceptable to pass a car on the right. Now, my question was about passing on the left. My research hasn't given me an answer to that, yet. But, that's why I was asking.

Although the law says "a motor vehicle which is moving in the travel lane of the way," we'd have to look to case law to see whether a motor vehicle stopped at a light is "moving." Firstly, I doubt it's been litigated and appealed yet. And secondly, if it has been, I'd be willing to bet the courts would be on my side of this issue. Just my opinion on that, though, of course.

And furthermore, in the city, where I live, I'm often passing cars that are merely slowing down for a light, in which case it would seem they are certainly "moving."

[Roody]

Yes.
As well as a cyclist, I also have been known to both drive and be a passenger in a car.

It is ANNOYING to have to safely pass a cyclist TWICE on a narrow thoroughfare.

I truly am amazed by the elitist arrogance displayed by my fellow cyclists.
It's as if you're all John Kerry clones.I asked if you had heard of complaints and you quote yourself! And you would call others "arrogant".

I don't need this guy. G'bye.

[sbhikes]

Personally, I make NO decisions about my safety based on anyone else's convenience or frustration. Of course motorists are frustrated--they're in cars! Stuck in traffic!

I nearly always wait in line like a good lane-occupying vehicle. However, sometimes, when the line of traffic stretches for blocks (a situation in which, according to my curb-sucking friend, the cars should all pull over and get out of the faster vehicle's (me!) way), I will carefully make my way up to the front of the line, on the right, ringing my bell, and position myself just to the front-right of the secondmost vehicle, so that driver will see me, and I can see what the front driver is doing. That way I won't get killed.

Because while bicycles are vehicles, we are significantly different vehicles than cars. We share rights and responsibilities, but they are a different set of responsibilities than those for cars. Some of these differences are set out in vehicle codes, and some of them are not.

All that said, and that's a lot, so thanks for reading, I see how most cyclists approach red lights--they race up to the front on the right, carelessly, and when a driver cuts in front of them to go right, or opens a passenger side door, they act as if they have been wronged. Thats cuz the bicyclist, in that case, is ignoring one of Hurst's three rules of urban cycling: Be responsible for your actions.

Very well said.

If there isn't enough room to pass safely on the right there is likely even less room to pass safely on the left. A lot of drivers put their left wheels nearly on the divider line. In fact, I can't imagine any tme passing on the left is a good idea under the situation you describe.

[weed eater]

Poor wittle babies. Somebody start a fundraiser.

this'd be funny, if the fed'l gov't wasn't already massively subsidizing auto use, road construction and fuel costs. poor widdle babies, indeed.

(of course, it's still funny! lol!)

[Bikepacker67]

I asked if you had heard of complaints and you quote yourself! And you would call others "arrogant".

I don't need this guy. G'bye.

Feeling is mutual, chief.

Sayonara!

[HumdrumPG]

Very well said.

If there isn't enough room to pass safely on the right there is likely even less room to pass safely on the left. A lot of drivers put their left wheels nearly on the divider line. In fact, I can't imagine any tme passing on the left is a good idea under the situation you describe.

Yeah, I think you're right. That's pretty much the situation I have found. I was just worried that passing on the right was somehow illegal, since I know our bikes are considered vehicles, too. I think I'll stick to the right, and just keep watching out for the doors.

[77Univega]

--- In my experience bike commuting in LA, I have never wanted to pass a long line of stopped cars on the left. Besides, the law says for bicyclists to stay on the right. I do indeed make my way carefully to the front of a long line of stopped cars. Hahaha, that is the perk of bike commuting.--- OK to add to my own post: I avoid cycling maneuvers that would impede the faster motorized traffic. When congested auto traffic is backed up at the light, yes I move to the front. When that light changes, I will be gone and out of their way. When I'm driving my car, I have no problem with cyclists moving past me and up to the light.

[Bikepacker67]

You better watch out for right blinkers as well.

[randya]

A motorcyclist who rides up to the front can be legally ticketed every time.
Not in California.

[randya]

I'm talking inner city (or narrow suburb) roads where cyclists flaunt their disrepect for everyone else waiting in traffic.
It's their choice to drive and wait in traffic. It's my choice to ride a bicycle and pass each and every one of them while they idle in gridlock. That's one of the reasons bicycling makes so much sense in urban areas.

[Bruce Rosar]

You better watch out for right blinkers as well.and the cross light turning green drivers turning right on red (the legality in your area may vary) eighteen wheelers in your lane (the middle of the trailer can overlap the curb during a right turn) passengers disembarking from vehicles in your lane traffic (peds, bikers, autos, etc.) entering on the right from in between parked cars driveways alleyways These are a few of my not-favorite things! ;)

[biodiesel]

IF you can pass without being re-passed then sure, pass right or left.

Just know that your in a danger zone.

Oh, and though in California lane splitting is legal it may not be in some places.