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When approaching a red traffic light, with cars already waiting in line, how many of you here ride up the left side to the front of the line instead of taking your proper place in the middle of the lane in queue?
I know most newbies do this for lack of knowing any better, but I see more than a few seasoned cyclists doing this as well.
Not only is it just plain RUDE to make all those cars re-pass you, but it's also VERY DANGEROUS for the cyclist in regards to left turning traffic, as well as oncoming right turning traffic.
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If there is a bike lane on the left of a right only lane, and to the right of the straight thru lane, and there is a bike lane to continue on the other side of the intersection... there is no "RUDE factor... " you are in your own lane.
If on the other hand you filter forward and then the drivers have to move over to pass you on the other side of the intersection... you are not "making friends."
Left? What country are you riding in?
When approaching a red traffic light, with cars already waiting in line, how many of you here ride up the left side to the front of the line instead of taking your proper place in the middle of the lane in queue?
I know most newbies do this for lack of knowing any better, but I see more than a few seasoned cyclists doing this as well.
Not only is it just plain RUDE to make all those cars re-pass you, but it's also VERY DANGEROUS for the cyclist in regards to left turning traffic, as well as oncoming right turning traffic.
I have found that it is best to take the center of the lane, behind the waiting cars. Passing the cars makes them have to pass you once again, often in an unsafe way. We all agree that the average driver is under-trained, jumpy, malevolent, and possibly distracted by a cell phone or a passenger, so why deal with one more than once? Stopping behind the waiting cars but maintaining a far right position is not an acceptable option either, as auto drivers tend to pull up beside you, creating an unsafe condition. They feel pressured by your position next to their front fender, and they can panic when they feel they can't swing wide to pass you. They caused it, but it's still a problem. Center of the lane, behind the waiting cars.
I go to the front and take the center of the lane. It's just faster that way.
Stopping behind the waiting cars but maintaining a far right position is not an acceptable option either, as auto drivers tend to pull up beside you, creating an unsafe condition. They feel pressured by your position next to their front fender, and they can panic when they feel they can't swing wide to pass you. They caused it, but it's still a problem. Center of the lane, behind the waiting cars.
I always take the middle of the lane - but I'll tell ya, on more than one occasion the driver behind has tried to "pass" me while still waiting for the light.
Flippin morons.
But I've come to accept it. I rarely get mad (except for folks that blow by at unsafe speeds - they still get the one finger salute)
I go to the front and take the center of the lane. It's just faster that way.
I certainly hope you're being sarcastic.
Elsewise, your arrogant, and azzholish actions put all cyclists at risk by just solidifying the myth in cagers' minds that bikers are elitist PITA's.
I certainly hope you're being sarcastic.
Elsewise, your arrogant, and azzholish actions put all cyclists at risk by just solidifying the myth in cagers' minds that bikers are elitist PITA's.
Yeah, and your continued "arrogant, (sic) and azzholish" style of posting solidifies the myth that cyclists are a bunch of self-righteous ranters more interested in raising hackles than points. You've got the nerve to refer to all drivers as cagers, and then call someone else arrogant?
Calm down a bit. Why are you always so angry?
Yeah, and your continued "arrogant, (sic) and azzholish" style of posting solidifies the myth that cyclists are a bunch of self-righteous ranters more interested in raising hackles than points.
WINNER!
Opie podiums with his power-trolling.
Opie podiums with his power-trolling.
Oh, be kind. Stop messing with his blood pressure. At least, I hope you were trolling the OP?
Calm down a bit. Why are you always so angry?
I'm not angry at all.
I just like a good raucous debate.
And frankly, riding up to the front IS ARROGANT, and IS AZZHOLISH.
I certainly hope you're being sarcastic.
Elsewise, your arrogant, and azzholish actions put all cyclists at risk by just solidifying the myth in cagers' minds that bikers are elitist PITA's.
Thats a broad assumption.Believe it or not, most motorists can deduce that not all "cyclists" are the same, and I use the term "cyclist" loosely cause that varies greatly acording to one's interpretation.Motorist's dont treat all bikers the same, I see that first hand all the time.When a car driver sees me on the street I highly doubt they equate me with one of the brothers here in my hood riding the wrong way down the street with a 40 in one hand and a bag full of beer hanging from the handlebars.Nor do they likely equate me to one of the spandex clad part time rec riders either, so stop with the generalizations please, it serves no purpose, and most of us could probably care a less what others think about our image or how it makes other "cyclists" look.
I'm not certain I see the point in riding to the front. What advantage does one gain under these circumstances unless you are planning to run the light? I see the point in riding up to make a right on red, though that too isn't really a good idea. At least there I see the point.
Ped...
Running to the front of the light and making motorists pass you twice is both unsafe, and inconsiderate.
And I doubt there's too many 40oz'er riders perusing these forums.
I just like a good raucous debate.
What debate?
You asked a question feigning interest in a response, then rant and then insult people before you even exited the starting gate.
Oh, be kind. Stop messing with his blood pressure. At least, I hope you were trolling the OP?
Yes, I was trolling BP67... more like BP167/110, ya feel me dawg?! :lol:
Anywho, the OP was a trap. But we had fun the last few minutes of our week-ending work day, yeah?
Ped...
Running to the front of the light and making motorists pass you twice is both unsafe, and inconsiderate.
And I doubt there's too many 40oz'er riders perusing these forums.
I wouldnt be so sure of both those statements !!! You might like to sit in gridlock, some people dont, and if done properly, you wont get passed twice, alot of that depends on the situation,road layout,and traffic at the time.
Ped...
Running to the front of the light and making motorists pass you twice is both unsafe, and inconsiderate.
And I doubt there's too many 40oz'er riders perusing these forums.
I wish things were so black and white in my world.
Is anyone allowed to have an opinion that differs from yours?
I see a lot of people do this and do it myself in certain situations, and also find waiting in traffic to be appropriate in others. So I guess my answer is it depends. Biggest factor is street width. If they are going to have trouble passing me I won't do it (aside from the fact I will probably be squeezed over the curb before I even get to the light in this situation). If the lane is big enough for the two of us it really is a non-issue with me. If there is a bike lane I will cruise to the front everytime.
Now everyone can chime in and call me a VC heretic.
If the lane is big enough for the two of us it really is a non-issue with me. If there is a bike lane I will cruise to the front everytime.
Well yes.. that's common sense.
If there's a shoulder 2 yards wide (or BL) then you're not inconveniencing anyone - but you best be looking for left blinkers as you approach the front - and when you've stopped make sure you make eye contact with the folks behind you and let them know your intent.
But my beef is with the usual city traffic situations.
We all complain about motorists (and rightfully so FTMP) but a good hard look in the mirror can do wonders for the overall stress level /safety for cyclists AND drivers alike.
Is anyone allowed to have an opinion that differs from yours?
Wouldn't it be awesome if we could all lock threads just because there was a post we didn't agree with?
Ah, such words of yester-post.
I wish things were so black and white in my world.
Is anyone allowed to have an opinion that differs from yours?
Sure they're allowed!
You're posting, ain'tcha? :D
The real question is, can I have a strong opinion (that I back up with common sense) that you disagree with?
And BTW, I ain't mad, or angry, or even a wee bit peeved.
But I do like a good spar.
Wouldn't it be awesome if we could all lock threads just because there was a post we didn't agree with?
Ah, such words of yester-post.
hehe... it must be Friday. :D
Left? What country are you riding in?
America... those BL to the left of a right only lane and to the right of a thru lane look like this:
http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/images/fig-9c-03_sm.gif
If I don't get one of those, I go right to the middle of the thru lane and wait my turn just like a motorist in a car...
Unless... the traffic is backed up for what is obviously many light cycles... then I do filter forward and merge in and go across... Just like a motorcyclist would.
Well yes.. that's common sense.
If there's a shoulder 2 yards wide (or BL) then you're not inconveniencing anyone - but you best be looking for left blinkers as you approach the front - and when you've stopped make sure you make eye contact with the folks behind you and let them know your intent.
.
Look for Blinkers, watch for turning front wheels, and I try to make sure I position/merge myself in the gap between two cars if traffic starts to move. Not actually getting into the lane between them mind you but if the guy behind me turns he won't hit me (and if I am past his line of peripheral vision he is more likely to see me), and if the guy in front turns right I will have enough room to either swerve around left (in an emergency) or slow and let him turn. Usually I don't have to slow too much when doing this and I have plenty of time to deal with situations that may arise.
America... those BL to the left of a right only lane and to the right of a thru lane look like this:
http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/images/fig-9c-01_sm.gif
Yikes!
If that picture doesn't prove that Bike Lanes cause more problems then they solve, I don't know what would.
I don't give a rat's *** if I pull up ahead of twenty cars at a light, then lead them down the next ten blocks. Doing this where you can match or exceed the speed of the prevailing traffic helps, not a 45mph suburban lane.
I'm also not looking if the lane in the block ahead if me is going to present an inconveinence to the traffic stopped at the light, you can get a bike faster off the line than a car, and be a half block ahead of the traffic before they catch up.
That said, sometimes I stop in the line of cars, if it's too tight, the light leads off uphill, I'm turning left, etc.
Sometimes I stay behind, sometimes cut to the front of the line.
To answer the question AS IF you meant it sincerely (even though I'm pretty certain you did not mean it seriously--smells like a troll)....
Actually, I most often take my place in the line, in the center of the appropriate lane. However, many cyclists whom I respect greatly do it the other way. I have no problem with this. I don't think they are dissing cagers or taking something that doesn't belong to them, or acting unsafely. It's just a different style of riding. If I was riding with one of them I would gladly go to the front of the line with them.
Why do you (pretend to) presume that they are riding improperly?
Yikes!
If that picture doesn't prove that Bike Lanes cause more problems then they solve, I don't know what would.
Actually they do just fine for me in practice. Cars even yield right of way to me and wait for me to pass before entering the turn lane most times.
They also help motorists to understand that bikes are supposed to be in the road.
Yikes!
If that picture doesn't prove that Bike Lanes cause more problems then they solve, I don't know what would.
That pic is for a one way street... Hence the confusion relative to a stop light question. Go back and see the post above.
It should look like this:
http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/images/fig-9c-03_sm.gif
They also help motorists to understand that bikes are supposed to be in the road.
Well, whatever works for you.
Here in the hills of Western Mass, the narrow, blind curved roads will never have BL's so it's up to me alone (by acting like a vehicle) to help motorists to understand that bikes are supposed to be in the road.
I have never ridden in Mass so will trust you know what is best there.
We do have some narrow hilly rides out here where I adopt your techniques.
Well, whatever works for you.
Here in the hills of Western Mass, the narrow, blind curved roads will never have BL's so it's up to me alone (by acting like a vehicle) to help motorists to understand that bikes are supposed to be in the road.
Roads like that exist everywhere... so do you then filter forward and make the motorist pass you again and again on those "narrow, blind curved roads?"
That was the question at hand.
Why do you (pretend to) presume that they are riding improperly?
Its illegal most places, however I dont think the law says anything about a bike and a car sharing a lane which happens all the time.........earlier today I had a lady next to me on 3rd street and we were cruising right along at about 25mph sharing the same lane side by side, she asked me for some directions while we were moving,and I gave them to her, not all bikers and car drivers get freaked out about having another "vehicle" nearby,some do, some dont.Ive gotten used to it, when your moving roughly the same speed a pack of cars is fun to ride in, at least I enjoy it(maybe Im nuts).
Well, whatever works for you.
Here in the hills of Western Mass, the narrow, blind curved roads will never have BL's so it's up to me alone (by acting like a vehicle) to help motorists to understand that bikes are supposed to be in the road.
Unfortunately Billy Bob Redneck doesn't acknowledge me as an authority in what drivers should expect so to have an official marking on the road that shows him this is supposed to be is kinda nice sometimes. I get yelled at much less in areas with lanes like this.
I have never ridden in Mass so will trust you know what is best there.
We do have some narrow hilly rides out here where I adopt your techniques.
Old habits die hard though.
If I were ever to move to a land of BL's, it would be a tough transition for me to deal with feeling like I've been relegated to an out of sight corner of just about every intersection.
Being "in queue" like every other vehicle puts you in the sightline that drivers from all directions of the intersection tend to naturally look.
Well, in the picture above are you not between 2 lanes of cars out in plain view of all directions of traffic? Didn't seem like that picture put the cyclist in an out of the way place to me, if it did I would expect the bike lane to be to the right of the right turn lane.
Roads like that exist everywhere... so do you then filter forward and make the motorist pass you again and again on those "narrow, blind curved roads?"
That was the question at hand.
No. Like I said, approaching in intersection, I take my place in line.
No matter WHERE I'm riding.
Unfortunately Billy Bob Redneck doesn't acknowledge me as an authority in what drivers should expect
Don't fool yourself into thinking that the Smith College Socialists are any more acknowledging.
They just pass you too close/too fast in SAAB's instead of Ford Pickups
Don't fool yourself into thinking that the Smith College Socialists are any more acknowledging.
They just pass you too close/too fast in SAAB's instead of Ford Pickups
My point was if they see a road marking, it bears a little more authority to them (Billy Bob, Yuppies, Soccer Moms, SUV Steve, etc) than my example does.
My point was if they see a road marking, it bears a little more authority to them (Billy Bob, Yuppies, Soccer Moms, SUV Steve, etc) than my example does.
Maybe...
But it's also a "wall" so that if you NEED to take the lane (parked cars, debris, etc) the drivers can get indignant.
"For crissake, they have a damn bike lane!"
Maybe...
But it's also a "wall" so that if you NEED to take the lane (parked cars, debris, etc) the drivers can get indignant.
"For crissake, they have a damn bike lane!"
My experience is I need to exit the bikelane maybe for 100 yds of my 24.4 mile commute due to the above concerns. Now, for the other 24.39 miles the bikelane works just fine. I will get yelled at for 100yds as opposed to 23.39 miles anyday. Incidentally, I have never been yelled at for exiting the Bike Lane for debris.
Maybe...
But it's also a "wall" so that if you NEED to take the lane (parked cars, debris, etc) the drivers can get indignant.
"For crissake, they have a damn bike lane!"
Take that comment to the Bike Lane thread...
Back on Topic:
The OP question refered to riding to the head of the line.
In some cases it makes sense... for instance if a BL exists, or the traffic is so backed up that you will not be passed by the motorists that you pass. (other traffic does this in fact... motorcycles for instance).
In other cases such as on narrow roads, it makes no sense and there is no "reward" for doing anything but waiting your turn in line... however, it appears that other cyclists may do this and their actions can be perceived poorly by motorists who later have to pass those cyclists again and perhaps again.
Your actions put you in the group that waits their turn, obviously working with motorists.
Other's actions can enforce the negative image some motorists have about cyclists.
There isn't a single bike lane around here, so I just stick to the sidewalk. However, I have ridden on the road in situations like recently, they've replaced all of the messed up sidewalk in town because some lady fell and sued the city. Making me have to use the road. I stick to the middle of the lane, regardless of what people say to me. I do it becuse I've had bad experiences letting cars pull up beside me.
or the traffic is so backed up that you will not be passed by the motorists that you pass.
Impossible.
If you go up to the head of the line, you're gonna make folks that already passed you (maybe two lights back) pass you again. It's true that not ALL of the motorists that you blithely cut in front of at the stop will have to do this, but all that get thru the light will.
(other traffic does this in fact... motorcycles for instance).
Ohh ya... I wanna emulate motorcyclists, cuz they're known for their consideration and safety </sarc
Impossible.
If you go up to the head of the line, you're gonna make folks that already passed you (maybe two lights back) pass you again. It's true that not ALL of the motorists that you blithely cut in front of at the stop will have to do this, but all that get thru the light will.
Those folks may have been waiting at that light for quite some time... There are two examples that come to mind on my daily commute...
One is where motorists are coming off of the freeway and the ramp backs up due to a RR crossing. I ride down the ramp after turning from a cross street above. (it is a legal access with a BL on the ramp which ends at the first intersection) I am actually safer riding to the front than waiting in line where the last autos are still on the freeway waiting to actually exit. When the light turns green, I go with the first wave of traffic...
In another instance I ride up a steep hill where traffic is backed up for several light cycles waiting to make a left to get to a freeway ramp... it makes no sense for me to wait in this line... for one I am not getting on the freeway, for another, there is an adjacent bike lane that gives me my own lane to pass on the right.
It can actually take a 1/2 hour or more for those motorists to climb that hill. I can do it on a bike in less than 5 minutes.
In either case none of any of these vehicles that I pass will ever get a chance to pass me... and as I have just arrived on the scene from other cross streets, they have not previously passed me.
Such are the realities of real streets and traffic. Using a combination of BL and simple filtering forward, I am able to overcome the limitations of the motorists stuck in traffic.
I am able to overcome the limitations of the motorists stuck in traffic.
But this is my point.
Why should you feel it's your right to take such liberties?
The way I figure it, heavy traffic is a group cooperation of all vehicles involved.
And that means following the rules, declaring your intent (since we don't have blinkers we need hand signals and EYE CONTACT) and most importantly, patience and consideration.
Weaving your way to the front because you have this false sense of entitlement being on two wheels just further erodes goodwill from motorists.
Weaving your way to the front because you have this false sense of entitlement being on two wheels just further erodes goodwill from motorists.
And blazing by me at over 20 mph faster than the speed I am going with less than 3' or passiing clearance further erodes my goodwill towards motorists. :) :)
But this is my point.
Why should you feel it's your right to take such liberties?
The way I figure it, heavy traffic is a group cooperation of all vehicles involved.
And that means following the rules, declaring your intent (since we don't have blinkers we need hand signals and EYE CONTACT) and most importantly, patience and consideration.
Weaving your way to the front because you have this false sense of entitlement being on two wheels just further erodes goodwill from motorists.
Did you deliberately NOT read genec's post? Where did he say he was weaving through traffic?
Did you deliberately NOT read genec's post? Where did he say he was weaving through traffic?
Ok... not weaving. But certainly jumping the line.
It's wrong, it's non-vehicular, and it just adds fuel to the anti-cycling bonfire.
But this is my point.
Why should you feel it's your right to take such liberties?
The way I figure it, heavy traffic is a group cooperation of all vehicles involved.
And that means following the rules, declaring your intent (since we don't have blinkers we need hand signals and EYE CONTACT) and most importantly, patience and consideration.
Weaving your way to the front because you have this false sense of entitlement being on two wheels just further erodes goodwill from motorists.
Well for one thing, the bike lane allows me to do this (unlike your "wall" scenario) much like a car pool lane permits motorists that share their vehicles to pass heavy traffic. Gee, I guess motorists using a car pool lane "have this false sense of entitlement" and are acting "non-vehicular" too.
The other thing is I am not impeding traffic in any way when I do this... there are no motorists that have to wait for me in any way, either before or after I filter forward.
Now under these circumstances, does it make sense for me to wait 30 minutes, while breathing exhaust fumes, to climb a hill I could otherwise do in 5 minutes?
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