Professional Cycling For the Fans - Vino! Vino! Vino!

Okay, I'm now an official Vino fanboy. *Meh* So sue me. :) The guy is a spirited, fighting rider who was farken exciting to watch last night....I almost even yelled out loud and jumped out of my seat for a second there, which is very un-TdF behaviour.

Anyway, three cheers for Vinokourov!! :beer:

+1... I have been a fan for the past couple of years but I loved how he took it into his hands. Agreed not always sucessfuly but he wouldnt go down...

I actually jumped up and down and yelled "YES....M**********r!!". I kid you not...

yeah, vino is an exciting character. he made stage 21 exciting. i wonder what team he'll ride for . . .

He is a machine!

he rode half of the Gerolsteiner team off his wheel, and won the intermediate sprint from the front.

gosh the guy is a frigging crybaby that quit his Team 5 days before the end!!!!
Couldn't he have waited??? good riddance to bad rubbish!!!!!!

I was excited to see him take the last stage win, but I'm sure those sprinter teams have no love for him right now. He totally split the race for them.

I don't know how they split up the time bonuses in the end, but I hope he doesn't get it- only because once the race officials said no time bonuses, it would be unfair to Levi to lose his time bonus because he didn't know they'd change their minds and award them after all. If he had, he would have had his team position him better so he could keep his fifth place. So I hope for Levi's sake, Vino didn't ruin things for him.

On the other hand, I do like Vino... though I did see some sucking up to LA when Vino passed LA and his kids as LA was headed to the podium. I don't think Vino will make it onto the Discovery squad, and his stage win kind of solidifies this. He's not a team player, and for Discovery, they want team players, not someone out racing for themselves.

I still like Vino a lot, though.

Koffee

i like Vino.... Much!!! :p

he rode half of the Gerolsteiner team off his wheel, and won the intermediate sprint from the front.

I wasn't happy about that because I wanted Levi to hold 5th, but anyone that can do that and then win the stage over the sprinters at the end deserves to move up in the GC. Good job Vino. But I agree with Koffee, Levi was under the impression that there wasn't going to be a final bonus right? It looks like it is official that Vino has 5th now.

I was excited to see him take the last stage win, but I'm sure those sprinter teams have no love for him right now. He totally split the race for them.

I don't know how they split up the time bonuses in the end, but I hope he doesn't get it- only because once the race officials said no time bonuses, it would be unfair to Levi to lose his time bonus because he didn't know they'd change their minds and award them after all.


They did award Vino with the time bonus for the stage win. The standings on letour.com show him in 5th.

Just finished watching the replay coverage of Stage 21 because I missed the live coverage due to my group ride. I admire Vino for going off the front like that to take the win, but am disappointed that the time bonus was given to him, bumping Leipheimer down when they were told that all remaining time bonuses were cancelled.

I was excited to see him take the last stage win, but I'm sure those sprinter teams have no love for him right now. He totally split the race for them.

I don't know how they split up the time bonuses in the end, but I hope he doesn't get it- only because once the race officials said no time bonuses, it would be unfair to Levi to lose his time bonus because he didn't know they'd change their minds and award them after all. If he had, he would have had his team position him better so he could keep his fifth place. So I hope for Levi's sake, Vino didn't ruin things for him.

On the other hand, I do like Vino... though I did see some sucking up to LA when Vino passed LA and his kids as LA was headed to the podium. I don't think Vino will make it onto the Discovery squad, and his stage win kind of solidifies this. He's not a team player, and for Discovery, they want team players, not someone out racing for themselves.

I still like Vino a lot, though.

Koffee

They didn't anounce NO time bonusses. They anounced no second intermediate time bonus and the GC clock stopping at the end of the first lap. The 20/12/8 final bonuses would still count.

Is it possible Levi's team misunderstood?

I like his style, but he may have put himself in an awkward postion with the folks on his team in 2006. His age, and the competition from the "young bloods", such as Basso mean he is not the absolute "Number One" favorite for winning the Tour in 2006. But, he seems unhappy when asked to ride in support for another rider.

His ideal situation would be for his team to say "You're the man...we ALL are here to support you". But, without that sort of arrangement, he may end up with the same clumsy arrangement he had with T-Mobile: "Vino, you are our main man...but only if Jan should crash and the folks at the hospital refuse to release him..."

gosh the guy is a frigging crybaby that quit his Team 5 days before the end!!!! Couldn't he have waited??? good riddance to bad rubbish!!!!!

Agreed. The whole sprinting for bonus seconds to move up to 5th place on GC on the cerimonial stage just left a bad taste in my mouth.

It really doesn't matter what was announced. Vino wanted to go for it and he did. It's not like he tricked anyone.

One the other hand, T-Mobile is a team that fell apart.

They didn't anounce NO time bonusses. They anounced no second intermediate time bonus and the GC clock stopping at the end of the first lap. The 20/12/8 final bonuses would still count.

Is it possible Levi's team misunderstood?

I don't think so. Either the entire cycling community misunderstood or just you and Vino, because I understood the announcement to mean that after the first finish line pass, there would be no more time bonuses awarded, but that POINTS for the green jersey would still be available. That's why (it seemed) that all the guys who were top contenders sat towards the back of the pack- avoiding the eventual madness that develops when the sprinters are fighting it out for the green jersey points.

Koffee

Agreed. The whole sprinting for bonus seconds to move up to 5th place on GC on the cerimonial stage just left a bad taste in my mouth.

Though I do like Vino, I do believe that the etiquettte of the Tour is to never attack on the last day. Sprinters get to vie for the final stage win and bonus points. I was surprised (well, not really, knowing Vino's tactics) to see Vino break out of the pack in the last stage and go for it, but oh well... I feel bad for Levi, but I like Vino, and it was nice to see him on the podium again.

I simply don't know what team would take him on. Obviously, he's a strong cyclist and very ambitious, but what team would take him on, especially if other teams see him as a pariah and won't work with the team he's on, I don't know. Good luck to him, though. I'm eager to see how his next year shapes up (I don't think he'll ever be on Discovery).

Koffee

why was Vino wearing those colours?

No attacks on the last day is a dumb point of etiquette. It's a 21-stage race. Why should they stop racing after 20 stages? Thumbs up to Vino for making it interesting right to the end.

Leipheimer and Gerolsteiner were simply not strong enough to match Vino. Vino took on four riders at the first sprint and worked them over. Impressive. Vino deserved fifth far more than Leipheimer. He was attacking day in day out. Leipheimer basically followed wheels for 21 days.

Tell me Aussie531 is kidding!

classic1, I agree.

Though I do like Vino, I do believe that the etiquettte of the Tour is to never attack on the last day. Sprinters get to vie for the final stage win and bonus points.


You are half correct. It is only bad etiquette to attack before the arrival to Champs Elysée except for the intermediate sprints. However, it is perfectly fine to attack once Paris is reached. Vino attacked at the intermediate sprint and on the Champs Elysée cleanly. There has been a couple of times when riders won just like Vino. What he did was terrific. A well deserved win for a classy rider.

It doesn't matter if Levi understood the rule change or not. There was obviously nothing he or anyone else in the peloton could do to stop Vino. Winning the final stage is not an insignificant achievement.

I think Vino is a breath of fresh air - he races! Don't be so sure he isn't a tour contender if he gets a good team to support him and focuses on the tour. 5th over all as a support rider (and 3rd? a couple of years ago) is incredible.

One the other hand, T-Mobile is a team that fell apart.

I heard that Kloden's parting words, as he left the TdF with a wrist injury, is that he would never ride with Vino again. What did Vino do that was so bad? OK, Vino seems to attack with impunity, but that is part of what could have thrown Lance off his game - unpredictable attacks . T-Mobile's strategy -- the Kloden and Ullrich wait-and-see approach -- seems destined to failure against a rider as strong as Lance.

why was Vino wearing those colours?

i think he misplaced his pink strip.

It really doesn't matter what was announced. Vino wanted to go for it and he did. It's not like he tricked anyone.

One the other hand, T-Mobile is a team that fell apart.

Well said. It's not clear where Vino will end up for the next season, and I'm not sure he'd be a good fit for Team Discovery. But, if he can land with a good team that will support him properly as the leader from the start, then look out Jan and Ivan. No matter how you cut it, this guy repeated showed that he is talented and has great courage. With a good manager and a good team he'll be a very strong contender to win the TdF. If this can happen and T-Mobile gets their act together (i.e. they give Jan the proper, unquestioned support), then next year's race has the potential to be one of the greatest ever with three viable winners. Let's hope Bjarne Riis can get it together.

My $64? is who leads the Disco boys next year? I don't envy Jan sorting that out.

Watching Vinokourov, especially the last 2 days of the race, was spectacular! He rode a superb TT and attacked for all he was worth on the streets of Paris. Whining about what he "did" to Levi is ridiculous -- Levi didn't have a chance of keeping his position on GC. As we all saw, Vino rode away from several members of the Gerolsteiner team in the sprint and rode away from Davitamon-Lotto for the stage win...and I'm willing to bet that both Lotto and Cofidis wanted that win pretty badly in their attempt to oust Hushovd.

In other words, the result would have been the same regardless of the time bonus announcement's ambiguity. Gerolsteiner was no match for Vinokourov's attack for the same reason Lotto and Cofidis were powerless to defend their sprinters -- Vinokourov was motivated and stronger.

Vinokourov well deserves his 5th place and I hope he continues to brandish his racing enthusiam and moxie. I believe that if he were to temper some of his fire with a bit of patience and tactical shrewdness, he would likely be an even more formidable racer.

Vinokourov earned the position. while my american pride would have rather seen levi in the top 5, vino out rode him and siezed the moment and I for one cant blame him. This is a guy who is also trying to establish his worth on another team and gaining that 1 position put almost $30,000 extra into that manly turqoise suit he has, does anyone now why he isn't in t-mobile pink?:)

why was Vino wearing those colours?
Those are the colors of the national champion of Kasachstan, Vino's home country.

gosh the guy is a frigging crybaby that quit his Team 5 days before the end!!!!
Couldn't he have waited??? good riddance to bad rubbish!!!!!!
It's quite common for teams to announce movement (trades etc.) during the Tour.
Evidence USPS, Floyd Landis last year, and Roberto Heras the year before.
I'm quite sure that both Vino and T-Mobile were well aware that his contract
was up at the end of this year prior to the start of the tour. All he did was
confirm he was not going to renew with t-mobile. Given their lack of support
for any one rider (in both GC and Points, no Zabel) they got no more than
they deserved.
Crybaby? I think not. Vino is one of the hard men of the sport
Cudo's to him for a brilliant attack on the Champs. . .

Marty

I simply don't know what team would take him on. Obviously, he's a strong cyclist and very ambitious, but what team would take him on, especially if other teams see him as a pariah and won't work with the team he's on, I don't know. Good luck to him, though. I'm eager to see how his next year shapes up (I don't think he'll ever be on Discovery).

Koffee

Vino will have no trouble finding a home. Not on one of the A-list teams (Discovery, CSC, etc.) but say you’re not the DS but a major sponsor of a team that won no stages, wasn’t a sprint contender… in other words, the team is getting very little press. Wouldn’t you, as a sponsor, love to sign the rider whose press coverage is second only to LA?

Don’t forget that these pro athletes are entertainers whose job is to draw attention to the sponsor. They do it by winning and of course winning the GC is the ultimate. But what about the sponsors whose teams are currently below the radar?

Though I do like Vino, I do believe that the etiquettte of the Tour is to never attack on the last day. Sprinters get to vie for the final stage win and bonus points. I was surprised (well, not really, knowing Vino's tactics) to see Vino break out of the pack in the last stage and go for it, but oh well... I feel bad for Levi, but I like Vino, and it was nice to see him on the podium again.




The final day's attach moved Vino from 5th to 4th in the final sprinter standings. If etiquette limitted attachs to those vying for the sprints, Vino, as sprint contender, would still be politically correct in going for sprinter points and position.




I simply don't know what team would take him on. Obviously, he's a strong cyclist and very ambitious, but what team would take him on, especially if other teams see him as a pariah and won't work with the team he's on, I don't know. Good luck to him, though. I'm eager to see how his next year shapes up (I don't think he'll ever be on Discovery).

Koffee

His go for broke attitude would be popular with an American team. I expect him with Discovery and we already know he'll be offered a position with CredAg. Then we can ponder why Vino's Jersey is a different color than the rest of the Discovery riders. :roflmao:

I agree with plin on etiquette--long breakaways before the Champs-Elysses are frowned upon, but it's perfectly fine to go after intermediate sprints and to attack once on the Paris circuit. Every year there's usually a small group that gets away for a few laps on the Champs-Elysses (Merckx and Voeckler were in a big group last year), but they're usually caught before the end.

Great win by Vino! And that was some ride to fend off the whole Gerolsteiner team at the first sprint point. I'm not ready to annoint him as some kind of tactical genius (as Phil and Paul constantly proclaim), but the boy is definitely fun to watch.

The latest rumor I saw on Velonews had Vino going to Credit Agricole, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because he'll just be trapped in another team with split loyalties as long as Hushovd is there. Vino says it should be settled in the next two weeks or so, though.

I don't think so. Either the entire cycling community misunderstood or just you and Vino, because I understood the announcement to mean that after the first finish line pass, there would be no more time bonuses awarded, but that POINTS for the green jersey would still be available. That's why (it seemed) that all the guys who were top contenders sat towards the back of the pack- avoiding the eventual madness that develops when the sprinters are fighting it out for the green jersey points.

Koffee

The anouncement to drop the time bonus for the second intermediate sprint never mentioned dropping the final time bonus.

Excerpts from the official site live update play by play:

16:00: "Vino Wins The Sprint!"

16:16 - Leipheimer Still Leads Vinokourov
Although Vinokourov (TMO) gained a two-second time bonus at the first sprint, Leipheimer (GST) is still fifth overall. They are separated by a fraction of a second but the count-back from the two time trials is in favour of the American.

16:19: "Time For General Classifcation Will Be Taken On First Lap. The peloton will still complete the eight laps of the Champs Elysees circuit but that is just to determine the stage winner"

16:29: "The race jury has just announced that there will not be any time bonuses awarded for the 2nd intermediate sprint; only points.
This is a modification to the normal rule."

17:26 "Vino Wins The Stage!
Vinokourov has won his second stage this year! He will earn time bonuses for the victory and move up to fifth overall...!"

I'm surprised Vino didn't get most aggressive rider. Did Pierrero(sorry about the spelling) really do more than Vino? Every stage it seemed at some point the experpts said "Vino attacks!"

And just to add fuel to the fire, why did he wear the team colors on the time-trial? UCI only requires national champ colors on road stages? I thought that was odd.

I'm surprised Vino didn't get most aggressive rider. Did Pierrero(sorry about the spelling) really do more than Vino? Every stage it seemed at some point the experpts said "Vino attacks!"

And just to add fuel to the fire, why did he wear the team colors on the time-trial? UCI only requires national champ colors on road stages? I thought that was odd.

Pereiro attacked 3 consequetive days, if I am right, and won 1 and came 2nd in one...

Those are the colors of the national champion of Kasachstan, Vino's home country.
ah...WHAT???!!! :eek: :D

thanks

And just to add fuel to the fire, why did he wear the team colors on the time-trial? UCI only requires national champ colors on road stages? I thought that was odd.

Not sure if you're serious or not. He's the road race champion of his country. Not the TT champ.

Pereiro attacked 3 consequetive days, if I am right, and won 1 and came 2nd in one...

I think you are referring to stages 15 (2nd), 16 (1st), and 19 (4th).
There was also a rest day between 15 & 16.

Not sure if you're serious or not. He's the road race champion of his country. Not the TT champ.

Unfortunately I am serious. I don't know all the jersey rules. I thought I saw TT Champs wearing the TT jerseys in stage races on the Giro so I was surprised to see Vino NOT wearing his road racing champ jersey on the TT. So the rule is you must wear the champ jersey only in the discipline in which it was earned, not all cycling events? Sorry for my ignorance.

As to the other topic, I still think Vinos constant attacks should have deserved some credit. I guess we don't know how close the vote was or who were the contneders, but I'll bet it was a close vote and Vino was second. On the other hand, the Phil and Paul comments about Vino "annoying" other riders (Lance and Levi) makes me think maybe other riders don't like him so much. Hard to know.

Just read the He's going with Liberty next year... That ought to be interesting...

sorry... Link: http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpcWU3ZWcyBF9TAzk1OTEyNTc0BHNlYwN0aA--?slug=reu-vinokourov&prov=reuters&type=lgns

Just read the He's going with Liberty next year... That ought to be interesting...

Hmmm... I wonder what colors he will wear? :D

What I HAVEN'T seen answered is why he wore proper T-Mobile team colors on the ITT day? Did I imagine seeing that? Is there some exception to the whole National Champion rule when you're riding alone?

Road race champions can only wear their countries jersey during road stages. TT champions can only wear their countries jersey during time trials.

Dmitriy Muravyev of CA is the TT champ of Kazakhstan.

Just read the He's going with Liberty next year... That ought to be interesting...

That is interesting and also seems to be a good move for all involved.

Especially Heras. He can now rid himself of the pressure of being the team's tour CG contender and concentrate on the Vuelta instead.