Advocacy & Safety - Traffic calming

A recent article about traffic calming measures in Cheviot Hills around L.A. Seems like the program has been too much of a success as residents feel their own driving has been restricted instead of just people using the neighborhood as a short-cut. Yet what is wrong with the following example?

"Take Chuck Shephard’s recent afternoon drive from his law office in Century City to his son’s baseball game at the Cheviot Hills recreation complex. It’s less than a mile and a half from office to the ball field; Mapquest says it should take three minutes to drive. But it took Shephard 40 minutes because of all the restricted turns he had to navigate."

I wonder why he is using his car to travel less than a mile and a half anyway. Maybe someone from the area can describe the situation better? I know here in my hometown of Decatur, Ga we've combined traffic calming with sidewalk and bikelane improvements with success and community approval. Not just discouraging cars, but promoting other forms of travel.

LESS than a mile and a half? At a moderate pace I used to walk a mile to the subway in about 15 minutes. Sheesh.

I don't know the situation described, but I did just enjoy a change on a local road.

A north south 2 lane drive has had a speed limit of 25MPH for well over 20 years, this particular road is the only thru connector between adjacent beach communities Pacific Beach, Bird Rock and La Jolla. Traffic typically pushes the speed up to 35MPH in the area. Rather than accept the increase in speed on this primarily residential road (the old 85 percentile bump in speed trick) the area is now incorporating traffic circle like calming. It works. I do not know the reactions of the residents, but from my view it does make the local roads much more bike friendly... and no bike lanes were created for this.

I hope to see more of this... the typical brute force power play from those that chose to drive oversize Tonka toys is both annoying and unsafe.

Some traffic calming measures can be bad for bikes. For example the cobblestones laid out with 1" gaps between tiles have grabbed my tire badly.

Speed bumps are a pain on bike. They put these new 'rubber' ones in that have about a 2" vertical surface before a the sharp radius curve. Its like hitting a curb.

Speed bumps only temporarily slow a vehicle, but often cause agressive drivers to focus on them (instead of their surroundings) and brake hard and accerlate hard and they end up going faster (and more noisily) between bumps.

Al

Rather than accept the increase in speed on this primarily residential road (the old 85 percentile bump in speed trick) the area is now incorporating traffic circle like calming. It works. I do not know the reactions of the residents, but from my view it does make the local roads much more bike friendly... and no bike lanes were created for this.

My area neighborhoods are incorporating a lot of traffic circles also. I thought these were great until I entered one going much faster than I should have. I barely skimmed the outside curb and had to make an extra lap after I missed my proper exit. Maybe they'll work better when I figure out how to use them. :rolleyes:

I don't know the situation described, but I did just enjoy a change on a local road.

A north south 2 lane drive has had a speed limit of 25MPH for well over 20 years, this particular road is the only thru connector between adjacent beach communities Pacific Beach, Bird Rock and La Jolla. Traffic typically pushes the speed up to 35MPH in the area. Rather than accept the increase in speed on this primarily residential road (the old 85 percentile bump in speed trick) the area is now incorporating traffic circle like calming. It works. I do not know the reactions of the residents, but from my view it does make the local roads much more bike friendly... and no bike lanes were created for this.

I hope to see more of this... the typical brute force power play from those that chose to drive oversize Tonka toys is both annoying and unsafe.

Hey that's my 'hood you're talking about... and I (get this) agree!

A representative from SDCBC was involved in reviewing the plans from the cyclist's perspective.

One minor correction - most of LJ Blvd through Bird Rock, the area that is changing, was 4 lanes in the past, but it will all be 2 lanes now.

BTW, a few other intersections east and west of LJ Blvd in Bird Rock are getting traffic circles too.

I'll take a traffic circle over a stop sign (or red light!) any day...

Serge

Traffic Calming is a buzzphrase for developers who want to assault
an area with high density housing....it is mostly a way of circumventing
road improvement costs in areas they are going to **** and pillage.
Its cheaper to put in curb cutouts and grass traffic islands than actually
improve the area they are wrecking or make the wreckage more tollerable.
Instead of making roadways more travel friendly for everyone they
elide over the issue with the Traffic calming propoganda claiming ped friendliness.
As bike rider mixing it up with angry car drivers who are stuck or slowed down
for what they feel is not an acceptable reason is never any fun.
This will probably digress into unpleasantness but we have been assualted
with bourgious develpment in our once bucolic and travel friendly area
so whenever I hear this and phrases like 'TND' it evokes anger.
I see most the respondants are from the west coast so far so Im sure our
opinions will be as diametricaly opposed as our coasts are.

Hey that's my 'hood you're talking about... and I (get this) agree!

A representative from SDCBC was involved in reviewing the plans from the cyclist's perspective.

One minor correction - most of LJ Blvd through Bird Rock, the area that is changing, was 4 lanes in the past, but it will all be 2 lanes now.

BTW, a few other intersections east and west of LJ Blvd in Bird Rock are getting traffic circles too.

I'll take a traffic circle over a stop sign (or red light!) any day...

Serge


Worked well... I see a project for future changes for the pipes in the street further north, hope they continue the calming up that way as they work the streets.

I remember when that road was a nice cruise, then folks just kept pushing the speeds in spite of the enforcement efforts. Glad they chose to force slowing rather than do a speed increase. Now can you get Kearny Villa Road fixed? :D

This is one of the things that really gripes me about the increased speeds on roads... folks force the speed limits, then the engineers do their 85 percentile thing and what was a reasonable road before, then becomes a crowded "mini hiway." (this is not just aimed at KV road) Road speeds all over have been creeping up because of this. Residential areas only have managed to hold their speed limits.

RE "your 'hood... " California Bicycles is a nice shop to have around as your LBS... I'll be going there more often. Seem like good folks.

I think that out here in old-crumbling New England, they just figure that the potholes will act as "traffic calmers"

I didn't know what a "traffic circle" was until I realised you guys were talking about roundabouts. I like the look of them and I think they're a good idea since you don't have to stop.

Speed bumps only temporarily slow a vehicle, but often cause agressive drivers to focus on them (instead of their surroundings) and brake hard and accerlate hard and they end up going faster (and more noisily) between bumps.

Al

The same thing happened in my neighborhood so they now have two speed bums about 100 feet apart. This slowed down traffic tremendously.

Traffic Calming is a buzzphrase for developers who want to assault
an area with high density housing....it is mostly a way of circumventing
road improvement costs in areas they are going to **** and pillage.

There's some truth to this statement but I'm seeing more than ever is traffic getting so worse, the motorist is running though these small communities at fast speeds. These neighborhoods don't want the traffic and use the speed bumps to force the trafffic onto the freeway. Unfortunately, the freeway is packed with cars!

High density housing is coming to your neighborhood burbs and the current infrastructure was not designed to handle the traffic. Furthermore, the cost of building an additional expressway is out of the question for most of these small towns.

The same thing happened in my neighborhood so they now have two speed bums about 100 feet apart. This slowed down traffic tremendously.

They put the 5 speed bumps in my hood about 100yrd apart. I hate it as I now listen to the incessant roar of engines as driver try to get up to (above limit) speed after each bump. Its totally rediculous. Also of note the speed bumps are put on a 25mph street, but I need to slow to 15mph so as not to cause everything to fly around rear of car. So the bumps waste my fuel to, I could choose a constant 15mph, but instead I go 25mph, then slow to 15 for the bump, then speed back up to 15, etc.

Al

High density housing is coming to your neighborhood burbs and the current infrastructure was not designed to handle the traffic. Furthermore, the cost of building an additional expressway is out of the question for most of these small towns.


Being from Jersey I guess you would know what I am talkng about.
My wife and I attended all the township meetings here and even joined
a comittee that would call developers on irresponsible planning but realisticly
we got nowwhere. The developers are only interested in bottom line and have
the funds to pay for whatever they want. In the course of three years our
traffic has doubled. The development is totally out-of-hand. The few people
who come to the meetings are taken(fooled) by the fancy flip-charts and
buzzwordage. The truth is though, developers lose money on road improvements,
traffic studies and dealing with state road agancies so they think of any way to
get around being resposible in these matters. As great as traffic calming sounds,
the same people who supported it two years ago are whining about the 20 minutes
to go 1 mile phenomenon later. What is the answer ?? There are many that
sane, commonsensicly, non-profit motivated individuals could come up with
but an immidiate one might be to hit the developers HARD
with a per-unit tax to be used for infrastructure improvement. We have 850 units going
in of 7 acres here soon. The access road is a narrow farm road. If we hit them
with a 5,000.00 per unit tax to common-sensify the road system they might think
rethink the carnage they seek to assault us with. Conversely, give any
developer who wants to invest in one of the many exhisting urban areas renewal
a huge tax break. But... sadly, when its all said and done most people still have a
much easier time talkng about energy efficiancy than practicing it themselves.

This would calm some traffic!

http://www.swindonweb.com/life/lifemagi0.htm

I live on a street with speed bumps. Aggressive drivers have learned that if you take them at 40 mph you can't even feel them. Unfortunately a lot of these drivers drive pickups full of construction materials so they spill an awful lot of nails, screws, saws and other sharp objects. I often walk the last 500 feet of my commute in order to collect these things so I don't get a puncture later.

In another neighborhood there is a controversy where the residents do not like the traffic calming measures that have been installed. They run over the round-about so as to scatter the cones (it's not a permanent round-about yet.) Then city workers have to come back every day and put all the cones back up. Then there are these planter boxes that protrude into the street. Letters to the editor complain that they make it hard for bikes and cars to share the road. In other words, it is too inconvenient for cars to have to pay attention to bicycles taking the lane.

We have a couple of real round-abouts in town and they plan to put in more. I like them, but still haven't figured out how on earth I could do them safely on a bicycle. People become extremely aggressive inside them as if they want to have the whole round-about to themselves. They get inside them and stomp on the gas and even in the round-about that is two lanes wide they make sure nobody else can get in there. Pedestrians get stuck in them, too, unable to get across without a whole lot of fear and inconvenience. But I have noticed that the intersections where they have put round-abouts do not have the backed up traffic they used to have.

By the way, a lot of people don't quite understand that it is ok to go around the round-about more than once.

Now, this guy driving a mile and a half to a baseball game is an idiot. He should walk or ride a bike. It would not take 40 minutes on foot and it would be good alone time with his kid.

The same thing happened in my neighborhood so they now have two speed bums about 100 feet apart. This slowed down traffic tremendously.


What's a speed bum? Do they pay bums to lay in the street to slow people down? :D

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

I wonder why he is using his car to travel less than a mile and a half anyway.

He works in a law firm and wears a suit. DUH! Traffic calming...bikes do that best.

They put the 5 speed bumps in my hood about 100yrd apart. I hate it as I now listen to the incessant roar of engines as driver try to get up to (above limit) speed after each bump. Its totally rediculous. Also of note the speed bumps are put on a 25mph street, but I need to slow to 15mph so as not to cause everything to fly around rear of car. So the bumps waste my fuel to, I could choose a constant 15mph, but instead I go 25mph, then slow to 15 for the bump, then speed back up to 15, etc.

Al

This just goes to show that no matter what sort of technological measures are put in, they cannot make a poor driver drive well. I am fond of saying that driving is a privilege and not a right, and I think too few people have really earned this privilege. The only hope now is for automated driving systems (unless of course they are designed by idiots, which is most likely what is going to happen).

They put the 5 speed bumps in my hood about 100yrd apart. I hate it as I now listen to the incessant roar of engines as driver try to get up to (above limit) speed after each bump. Its totally rediculous. Also of note the speed bumps are put on a 25mph street, but I need to slow to 15mph so as not to cause everything to fly around rear of car. So the bumps waste my fuel to, I could choose a constant 15mph, but instead I go 25mph, then slow to 15 for the bump, then speed back up to 15, etc.

Al

Maybe they need to raise the bumps higher! Seriously. I've driven over speed bumps that were 5 mph and if you did more, it would have been like poping over a curve! Today's SUV's treat these speed bumps like rumble strips since they're so high off the ground.

I live up here MA. Going into a roundabout, rotary, or traffic circle with a bike is not that difficult. Just make sure that you take the whole right lane. They are very involved and if you are squashed on the side. People will pushed you out of the rotary when they find their exit.

Maybe they need to raise the bumps higher! Seriously. I've driven over speed bumps that were 5 mph and if you did more, it would have been like poping over a curve! Today's SUV's treat these speed bumps like rumble strips since they're so high off the ground.
Why should they be higher, why should a road with a 25mph speed limit have bumps that force you to drive slower than 25? If they want folks going 10 or 15, then the road should be posted and enforced as such.

In my neighborhood this road is a feeder road for the neighborhood, no houses face it, but bumps were put in at request of some uptight neighbors as a nightclub was put nearby and neighbors complained during the decision process and wanted speed bumps to stop the 'unwanteds' from driving into hood (even though there is no thru path) They do nothing but make driving this feeder road miserable in my Ford Explorer as it shakes everything loose in back, breaks eggs, beer bottles, not as bad in a Toyota Prius which is smoother at 20mph than the Explorer at 15mph.

Al

Why should they be higher, why should a road with a 25mph speed limit have bumps that force you to drive slower than 25? If they want folks going 10 or 15, then the road should be posted and enforced as such.

In my neighborhood this road is a feeder road for the neighborhood, no houses face it, but bumps were put in at request of some uptight neighbors as a nightclub was put nearby and neighbors complained during the decision process and wanted speed bumps to stop the 'unwanteds' from driving into hood (even though there is no thru path) They do nothing but make driving this feeder road miserable in my Ford Explorer as it shakes everything loose in back, breaks eggs, beer bottles, not as bad in a Toyota Prius which is smoother at 20mph than the Explorer at 15mph.

Al

You drive an Explorer?....Feed em to the lions.

Wait, you also drive a Prius?...OK you get a reprive. :rolleyes:

You drive an Explorer?....Feed em to the lions.
Yep, and get 22-24mpg with my very careful driving style. It mostly sees weekend trips to remote widlerness areas or errands I can't do on bike (like picking up new home water heater)
Did you know it is narrower than many sedans and has a turning radius the same as an Accord?



Wait, you also drive a Prius?...OK you get a reprive. :rolleyes:
And get 50mpg. Actually my wife drives it. I cycle everywhere as much as I can.

(Its interesting, I've seen SUV drivers bashed on these forums, for, well, driving big uneccessary gas guzzlers which makes the drivers self centered and anti-bike. I've also seen Prius drivers bashed in this forum as being self absorbed and that they drive cars that are so quiet they don't give good warning about their presence.)

Al

I was kidding, I drive a freeking van. It's set up for camping.
But like you it gets used mostly for trips to the mountains, for bike centuries out of town, and large errands. As you, I mostly cycle everywhere. :)

Remember, this :rolleyes: means don't take me seriously, in fact don't take much of anything your read on the internet seriously. :rolleyes:


Yep, and get 22-24mpg with my very careful driving style. It mostly sees weekend trips to remote widlerness areas or errands I can't do on bike (like picking up new home water heater)
Did you know it is narrower than many sedans and has a turning radius the same as an Accord?


And get 50mpg. Actually my wife drives it. I cycle everywhere as much as I can.

(Its interesting, I've seen SUV drivers bashed on these forums, for, well, driving big uneccessary gas guzzlers which makes the drivers self centered and anti-bike. I've also seen Prius drivers bashed in this forum as being self absorbed and that they drive cars that are so quiet they don't give good warning about their presence.)

Al

Good reason to have a mirror on your bike.

I was kidding,

Remember, this :rolleyes: means don't take me seriously, in fact don't take much of anything your read on the internet seriously. :rolleyes:

I wasn't taking any of it serious. Its just fun banter in my view...

Al

Some of these traffic calming things make me nervous!

They put in big planters that made the lanes narrower. It's like having a dump truck parked every 100 feet. How does that make the cars calmer?

Maybe they need to raise the bumps higher! Seriously. I've driven over speed bumps that were 5 mph and if you did more, it would have been like poping over a curve! Today's SUV's treat these speed bumps like rumble strips since they're so high off the ground.

Please, no! I have to come to a complete stop and then go slowly in first gear to get my Mustang over those speed bumps without bottoming out! :(