"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Upgraded :D

Not all that important but I got my confirmation that my upgrade to catagory 4 was approved :D ...

I only have one more race left this season but in 5 weeks I am starting to do itt's as a 4 :D

Just wanted to let everyone know...,

I ended up with 14 races this season, more than enough for a cat 4 upgrade :) Now I get to be pack fodder :eek: (j/k) Should be a fun season next year! :D

do they split all the 4/5 races in California becuase of so many people?

About half the races are 4/5 and half the races are 5 and 4 seperatly. Many times the 4 races are only a little bigger than 5's. I have seen 4/5 races with over 100 people...

Congratulations 58. Good luck in Cat4.

Actually I find the 4/5 races with 100+ a little (slightly) safer than the 5 only races... but...

With that many people the teams do infact seem to take over the front and do stupid stuff... like slowing down to 15 MPH from 28 MPH in a corner... AHHH!

my58vw,

whats the highest placing you ever had as a 5?

What percentage of races did you finish?

Twenty first

About 40% ...

Neither of these numbers matter, around here 4 and 5 race at nearly the same speed, just 4's are a little longer, many races are 4/5. I will not do my first 4 crit until next season but I want to be in the 4 category for the local itt series that go on during the winter.

My results this season have no bearing on what I will race like next season. I will not go into some deep discussion on why here, just say I need to work on raw power in the gym this off season to be ready for 4's next season. BTW of the 4/5 races about 90% of the guys are almost always 4's so you are basically racing 4's. Last 4/5 race I stayed in something like half the race in a field with something like 95 4's and 5 5's. The people who race 5 just do not come out to the bigger crits for whatever reason around here. Either they have upgraded or are not racing anymore this season.

I will be ready next season.

Cat 5 is not for placing BTW. Five is just an area to get experience before moving to 4 where most of the action starts. I have no intentions of staying a five next season. Moving from a 5 to a 4 is not about placing but about experience in racing, and after some 10 practice crits and 14 regular crits I have that experience. Now 4 to 3 is about placing and if I want to get to 3 by the end of next season it will require dedication this off season to get where I need to be.

After this race season I am at the point that most Cat 5's start strength wise but tactics and brain wise I am very much a 4. We will see how things go next season...

how long did it take you to get your upgrade after th request. also, do you get credit for crits you don't finish? I have in 8 finished crits right now and two i got pulled from, so if the two count i can upgrade now.

Must have gotten credit, since he's done 14 races and finished 40% of em. I believe the only requirement for upgrading is you have 10 mass starts under your belt.

Congrats vw, good luck in the cat4's!

Thanks ^^^

Requirement is 10 mass starts, not finishes. Even though I only officially finished 40 % (6 crits) I stayed in over half of most of them. It is experience that makes you a 4, not results... (4 is not much safer than 5). Technically if you pay for the crit, stay in 1 lap and drop out it counts as a mass start :eek:

Penguin you are next... :D

congrats dude! YOu best start getting top ten! or else ill come over and ride a motorized scooter while you train and scream in your ear "KILL THEM, YOUR KILLING THEM ALL" :D

how long did it take you to get your upgrade after you requested it?

Penguin you are next... :D
Not till the beginning of next season at the earliest.

congrats dude! YOu best start getting top ten! or else ill come over and ride a motorized scooter while you train and scream in your ear "KILL THEM, YOUR KILLING THEM ALL" :D

He's killin' me, that's for sure. I'm dyin' laughing!

Cole

how long did it take you to get your upgrade after you requested it?

About 4 days, the guy from USA cycling is local though and knew me... scary!

About 4 days, the guy from USA cycling is local though and knew me... scary!

Hell yeah it is! Poor guy's probably scared ****less.

Cole

Rotflmao!!!!!!

thanks my58vw! The guy would not happen to be greg aden would it? I'm from your neck of the woods in terms of racing and did some of the same crits as you but i never saw you. I guess i'm gonna ugrade after 1 more training race or so at eldo but better do it quick i guess.

Congratulations! :beer: (Don't worry, they're mugs of foamy Cytomax.)

I may have seen you or vice versa but with 50 - 100 people in a race it is sometimes hard to notice each other, expecially when there is sometimes 3 or 4 guys from our team in the race...

I kind of hide before and after the races, I usually leave right after unless some people from our team is running cat 3 or 1/2 pro then I will stay and shoot photos.

I just upgraded my Carlsberg to a Czechvar ... vrooom, vrooom ...

Do you have to get a new plate with the upgrade?

tactics and brain wise I am very much a 4. We will see how things go next season...


I think thats great!!

Honestly, I think you upgraded too quickly. You've completed 6 races out of the 14 you've been in, but out of those races how many times have you hung with the pack the entire time?

As for "tactics and brainwise I am very much a 4", how do you know when you're very often behind the pack?

I'm not trying to start something here, VW, I'm just thinking you jumped the gun on this one. But, now that you're getting some Testosterone in your system, maybe it's already helping you that much.

I don't think I'm going to upgrade to the 4's until I start placing well consistantly, which may never happen if I don't stop crashing :D

If I was going to say a 3 from a 4 and I was not placing well consistantly then I would say sure you are right. Many people have a work for people who have been in cat 5 for so long... sand bagger. The problem with staying in cat 5 is you are not accumilating points towards a say cat 3 upgrade some day.

There are two thoughts on upgrading, 1. I will upgrade when I am winning all the races in the current level and 2. I will upgrade when I have enough points to do so.

Cat 3 is a good example of this. No one forces you to auto upgrade to a 2. Many people are cat 3 and very well could upgrade to a cat 2 but they stay in cat 3 forever because they do not want to race with 1's and pros. Of course that makes it hard for some people to upgrade to a 2 by points.

As I stated above cat 5 serves the purpose of allowing people to learn the "rules" and be "safe" during the races. I have spent enough time perfecting cornering skills, pack skills, etc. in the practice and real races. Just because I have actually "finished" 6 races (meaning was on the same part of the lead lap with the peloton if not with them in the pack sprint) does not mean I was not a big part of most of the races. I have participated in several breakaways, came close to several primes, etc. In crits unlike road races finishing means not much compared to road racing.

You could say going from a 5 to a 4 is about racing time. I have over 8 hours of "racing time", meaning time in the peloton, etc.

Was it too early, personally no, but I needed the upgrade to make something out of the season. My real racing begins next season and looking at my progress against most cat 4 fields I am ready.

Now if I crashed in 5 of 10 races etc then I would say that I was not ready... (not implying anything ^^^) :D Plus in our TT's there is not cat 5 anyway.

Nice thing about our sport. The finish line will tell if you are ready or not, no matter what you or others think or feel.

Well said Voodoo, well said.

my biggest reason for wanting to upgrade is to be around slightly better bike handlers. the 5's here are hit and miss - some of the races seem safe enough while others you have newbies hitting the cone barriers and cutting sharply into the pack. i've seen guys racing with ipods in their jerseys, guys come up to the line and their handlebars come unfastened. crap like that. i would rather hang with a 4 pack and not place as well than skid across the ground because some guy couldn't hold a line. but of course, there will be crashes in 4's as well...but i'd like to think they're not as random.

Nice thing about our sport. The finish line will tell if you are ready or not, no matter what you or others think or feel.

Yes very well said... I like this one!

Guys its going from cat 5 to cat 4, there isn't exactly a large difference except that some 4s have a little bit of a clue. Now results will matter, as bull****ting a 3 upgrade is a bit of a challenge.
PS 60 points a mandatory cat 2 upgrade for a 3, two of my friends have already done it this season.

I think it's great too but I'm confused on two points. First, why the congratulation from everyone? It's not like he did very well as a Cat. 5. The only thing he's demonstrated is that he knows how to hand over a check. Second, the feeling of actually winning a race is beyond compare. I would vote for sticking with the 5 crowd until you win or even place in the top 10. Lord knows it only gets tougher in the 4 and 3 races.

Just saying ...

Mark

i just upgraded to 4's simply ecause i had seen too many stupid things in 5's. I just did a crit two weeks ago; it was 35 minutes with 50 riders on a wide, .85 mile course. So it was a sort race with a small field in good conditions.
Three crashes caused by 1) somebody hit one of those traffic bots dots, 2)after a prime, the riders who went for it got a little gap on the field and the as it all came togther around a turn evrybody was swerving and not holding any sort of line, and 3) on the final sprint, a guy towards the front pulled out of his pedal (which he had done at the start and various times during the race, he should of pulled out) swerved and managed to cause a 6 rider or so pile up; mind you he didn't crash.
I figured it was time anyway to upgrade as i had raced 11 races, finished all (including two 4, 5's) and came close to winning.
Not to mention i was being pressured by various team members to upgrade because they thought i would be a good asset to the team. I'm not sure why though because som of these guys are nearly 3's and don't need my help; though, i may need their help.

oh yeah my58vw, are you doing the cbr race this sat. Might as well start racing 4's now...

I am doing the CBR crit on Saturday, but I can not officially start racing 4's until after the season because I do not have the little sticker yet... but that does not mean I can not race 5 and 4 (they said I could do that last time). Saturday is my last race of the season, and as you know it is a beautiful course.

I do not know how my fitness is right now but we will see on Saturday.


Mark... I hear where you are coming from but here is the problem 4 is not much harder out here than 5, and 5 is so crash prone, it is rediculus. Last race 5 only a guy crashed on the startline cliping in, then their was a crash near the end and a crash near the final sprint. I know there will be crashes in 4 but as the guy from CBR says, doing 10 races you earn the right to be a 4 because you are usually not the one out there crashing everyone. To go to a 3 though it requires more work.

It is my decision, congradulation or not it does not matter. I hope next season I will be winning races later as a 4... and that is always a posability, because if I do not then I will not become a 3... and that is the upgrade that matters...

See you Saturday.

and as you know it is a beautiful course.

58vw, it's a four corner industrial park crit for crying out loud...LOL

not that there's anything wrong with that of course

58vw, it's a four corner industrial park crit for crying out loud...LOL

not that there's anything wrong with that of course


Yeah that course sucks...last time we raced there there was water in turn 4 all day...

Why not race the la grange west la course on sun ? sounds much better.

58vw, it's a four corner industrial park crit for crying out loud...LOL

not that there's anything wrong with that of course

I hate most of the "4 corner industrial crits" but something about this one is different... maybe it is the fact you "climb" for 3 parts and decent for one... great tactical course, better than some of the course I have been on. Yes the water in 3 and 4 suck and I have to run slightly less pressure due to the crappy little bumpy surface on side 3.

The reason I do this is it is a cat specific test (i.e. 5, 4 etc.) whereas most other courses are 4/5 plus I get to play with "tactics" here. In the third in the series was the time I got away and stayed for a while... I have actually been playing with the idea of trying again on Saturday... just maybe! (I all depends how I feel on Saturday). The only way for me to win a crit right now is solo or in a breakaway anyway...

LA should be a fun course... but not the little rumored "hill" if I remember right. I have not said no to it but I am really thinking Saturday will be the last race of my "official" season and as a cat 5 even though I am considering racing both. We will see, depends on how I feel after Saturday.

I guess we all like what we like about crit courses... I do not particulary like flat courses at all... (but not super hilly ones either... )

if the fields are combined, 5 -> 4 is no big deal. Ive never done a split field with just 4's and 5's. so its impossible to know if you just got beat by a 4 or a 5. or if the guy that just crashed was a 4 or a 5.

I just upgraded to cat3 and its going to be interesting. I did a training race on tuesday with the 1/2/3 field and it was good. nothing i couldnt handle, but lets just say it goes like this - "time to go as hard as you can, ok now go harder" some of thoese 1's are soooo fast its crazy.
the main difference i noticed is that in the 4/5, if an attack goes and its brought back the field just kind of hangs out and takes a breather, where as now attacks just keep comming. its almost easier ridding at a sustained speed (however not any less painful) then speeding up, then slowing way down, and so forth.

the leadout for the sprint had the field of 40 riders single file at like 36mph. needless to say it was fun.

I hate most of the "4 corner industrial crits" but something about this one is different... maybe it is the fact you "climb" for 3 parts and decent for one... great tactical course, better than some of the course I have been on. Yes the water in 3 and 4 suck and I have to run slightly less pressure due to the crappy little bumpy surface on side 3.

I've taken you to task before for your descriptions of courses and your efforts during the races I have seen you in and I have to say you need to stop smoking that wacky tabacky (just kidding). But really, that course has one slighly uphill side, and I mean slightly, (after turn 1) and a little rise before the start/finish line, and that little rise cannot really be considered climbing, sure it's not flat but man you need to get a grip. But then again you're a Cat5 and don't know much yet, or so it would appear.

As far as the water in turns 3 and 4 and the pavement that you said you had to run a lower psi in your tires, pfffft, you don't need no stinkin low pressure for that type of racing, just better cornering skills. I ran my CXs at 130 psi the day it poured on us. Also the pavement is the same (no rough areas) the entire course.

Good luck in the 4s 58vw,

oh, do you know where I can score some of that **** you're smoking? just curious

I've taken you to task before for your descriptions of courses and your efforts during the races I have seen you in and I have to say you need to stop smoking that wacky tabacky (just kidding). But really, that course has one slighly uphill side, and I mean slightly, (after turn 1) and a little rise before the start/finish line, and that little rise cannot really be considered climbing, sure it's not flat but man you need to get a grip. But then again you're a Cat5 and don't know much yet, or so it would appear.

As far as the water in turns 3 and 4 and the pavement that you said you had to run a lower psi in your tires, pfffft, you don't need no stinkin low pressure for that type of racing, just better cornering skills. I ran my CXs at 130 psi the day it poured on us. Also the pavement is the same (no rough areas) the entire course.

Good luck in the 4s 58vw,

oh, do you know where I can score some of that **** you're smoking? just curious

Wow you are funny today. I would not consider the side "climbing" but they are not flat. I define flat like parts of ontario, etc that the peloton shows no signs of slowing at all. At domingious hills everyone seems to slow down after the 3rd corner which is annoying for how much gradient the course has. Yes I am still learning very much as you have pointed out and I am sure that after a few more years of experience I may look at course like this a little differently.

On this course I feel that running 125 PSI is a little more efficient than 130 PSI on the straight sections. Cornering is not really the reason for that, I have run as high as 140 PSI in crits before.

Thanks for all your help this season, I am sure things will go better in about 5 months when we start all this again.

As to what I am smoking... I could not tell you because I can not smell and smell is the defining characteristic (especially for pot and other substances) :lol:

Are you going out Saturday?

Are you going out Saturday?

yep, I'm doing the 40+ and 50+ races.

See you there...

Okay I'm a bit confused about the race results on the USA page. I've been in 2 mass start road races earlier this spring. I crashed out of one, the second one I finished behind the pack. Then I was in two circuit races in July, the first I finished well off the pack, the second only slightly. I don't see these results on the USA page. My fiance raced the race I crashed out of and her results are posted. According to you guys (I think) I should have credit for 4 mass starts this year for CAT5. How do I get credit for these? Oh also, how long back do the race results go. I did a mass start race as unattached June 2003. Can I get credit for that or are there term limits.

Okay I'm a bit confused about the race results on the USA page. I've been in 2 mass start road races earlier this spring. I crashed out of one, the second one I finished behind the pack. Then I was in two circuit races in July, the first I finished well off the pack, the second only slightly. I don't see these results on the USA page. My fiance raced the race I crashed out of and her results are posted. According to you guys (I think) I should have credit for 4 mass starts this year for CAT5. How do I get credit for these? Oh also, how long back do the race results go. I did a mass start race as unattached June 2003. Can I get credit for that or are there term limits.

Even if your results aren't posted, you can still get credit for the race. You just have to say you did it. I don't know how things are in your neck of the woods, but in TX going from a 5 to a 4 is basically just as easy as saying "Yes, I've done 10 races. Promise." and then you're a 4. There's obviously paperwork, I'm just making the point of how easy it is. Maybe a cursory check is made to see if you actually participated in the 10 races you say you did, but its not CSI. And when you're a 5, the races go back as far as you want them to. Its just 10 mass starts. Not 10 mass starts within a period of time. Piece of cake.

It is not all that hard to be able to do the upgrade, ignore the USA cycling website. I did 14 races and I have no results posted although I ended up on the final placings a few times (top 25). All you have to do is list the races you have done and the dates and you should be fine. For 4 - 3 it is a little bit harder to do so keep records.

Heh when I first saw the title of the post, I thought it was going to be a bike upgrade! I got all excited for pics!

But anyways nice job on upgrading

Well next year guys. Next year for me. (well starting racing)

I was talking to the guys at my lbs (well two of em, I LOVE MY LBS!) and he was getting me all exited adn really thinking about racing. He said to me though I reccomend you start at the beggining of the season next year instead of mid season because the later in the year the race, the faster/harder the get. And I wasnt talking to any cat 4 racer. I am talking about a seasoned cat 2 raccer who turned friggin cat 1 by my age! (15) well he started when he was 12 though. Oh jeez Im going to start going to some of the crits in my area and actually do an easy practice race. (not supposed to be that bad, but a learning expirence)

Thanks ^^^

Requirement is 10 mass starts, not finishes. Even though I only officially finished 40 % (6 crits) I stayed in over half of most of them. It is experience that makes you a 4, not results...


There's not a huge diff in speed between Cat 4 and 5 but there's some and...

There's a huge diff between finishing and not, and a bigger diff between riding up front or being pack fodder.

This year I turned up a lot stronger than I thought I would be and have been winning most of our Cat4/5 (equivilent) races. I haven't started riding our 3/4 until later in the year because I was learning a great deal about tactics and my own capacities riding up front. Yes, I had to put up with some sandbagger taunts, but the experience served me well in the recent district masters championships (it's very cool to hear your name on the PA system BTW).

You've upgraded so you're in with the 4's, my advice would have been to hang in until you at least start seeing the fininsh line with the winners. To make the next step to 3 you're going to have to perform, rather than show up. Good luck!