Advocacy & Safety - Got into minor accident last night, suggestions?

Was traveling eastbound on a regional road whereby a man in his late 70's proceded to sideswipe me head on taking a left turn southbound. Of course, I had working lights in the front and rear and was wearing a semi-reflective windbraker. He managed to eventually see me and slow down, so the impact wasn't that great, but my left side hurts like hell. He was kind enough to drive me to the hospital and wait for to get checked out by the doctor, and then drove me home bike and all. The doctor said it should heal up in two days. The driver offered to pay for my hours missed at work and to replace the front lights which were damaged in the crash, but otherwise the bike looks fine. However, other than going to the hospital I didn't report the accident to the police, and the driver doesn't want to report it to his insurance. Should I agree to his deal or what?

Sounds like the motorist is giving an honest attempt at rectifying the situation.
If cash compensation is all that you require, then why not accept his deal?

On the other hand, you should get the bike looked at by your LBS to make sure the frame is not bent.
Also, if I were in your position, I would ask this motorist for his driver's license number, (or some other
personal info) so you can have some assurance that he won't disappear with his offer of compensation.
You need some ammunition if you are forced to take this further.

Accept his deal but check with LBS. It is better for him to pay you than get involved with the police and insurance.

Joe

Wow, good you came out well. Sure glad he was able to slow down before impact.

From your description, the guy sounds like he really stepped to the plate. He's of the old school, when people tried to do the right thing before society became so litigious. Sure, I'd get the license information and have the bike checked out just in case, but he sounded genuinely like a pretty honorable sort.

Got his information last night, and some witnesses after the fact. However, just this morning at 11 the Regional police called and took down my information, so it seems that he did report it. The cop said to come in and look at the report at the station as soon as I can. He took down my injuries and the cost of the damaged lights, so I was wondering, how does insurance deal with this?

<snip> so I was wondering, how does insurance deal with this?

The motorist's rates go up, and you get a check in the mail.

Well you went to the hospital, there's a record of it right there.
You can report the accident to the police w/o bringing it to the insurance company, just get a statement from the police, in case he backs out.

Well, the cop phoned again and said the driver was charged with an improper left-turn. He said before I check in to the police station I should drop by the hospital to get a copy of the injury report and go to the lbs to get the bike checked as well. Since I didn't report the accident myself, I wonder if the driver felt guilty about it? Anyways, I feel kinda sorry after all he did for me, and hope his insurance doesn't go up too much.

Well, the cop phoned again and said the driver was charged with an improper left-turn. ... Anyways, I feel kinda sorry after all he did for me, and hope his insurance doesn't go up too much.
The guy hits you, puts you in the hospital, is at fault, and you feel sorry for him? :rolleyes: Sure, he was nice and all to take you to the hospital, but you need to report these things. The only time I don't report things is if it's my fault. :D

Think of it this way - other cyclists are now going to be safer since a driver will now be more aware of his left-turns and cyclists in general. But a "slap on the wrist" won't teach anyone a lesson. It's tough love.

The guy hits you, puts you in the hospital, is at fault, and you feel sorry for him? :rolleyes: Sure, he was nice and all to take you to the hospital, but you need to report these things. The only time I don't report things is if it's my fault. :D



Your last sentence pretty much tells the story there, doesn't it? The driver made a mistake, and has done everything possible to own up to it. You want to punish him more? That's vengeance, not justice.

Your last sentence pretty much tells the story there, doesn't it? The driver made a mistake, and has done everything possible to own up to it. You want to punish him more? That's vengeance, not justice.
No, you want to make sure this is not a repeatable offense. How does one know that this driver hasn't done this before? How does one know that this driver won't do it again? Maybe next time he'll turn into a small child and kill him/her.

Plus, the # of bicycle accidents is underreported. If we had better statistics, then we would have an even better reason to build more bike lanes, etc. and have more public funding for using bicyles as a means of transportation. There are valid reasons why this should have been reported.

Its a fine line.

You want them to be punished enough so that they never do it again.

But if you punish them too much they may be tempted to 'flee the scene'.

'tis why I always felt that Fleeing the scene of an accident should mean the death penalty (for car, bike or pedestrian). But that's just me. :P

Was traveling eastbound on a regional road whereby a man in his late 70's proceded to sideswipe me head on taking a left turn...

As usual, my main interest is to bring attention to how cyclists could learn from your experience. Not looking for blame, but am curious to know what habits, if any, might be adopted by cyclists in order to avoid being hit in a similar situation. To that end, your answers to the following questions would be appreciated.


How many lanes in your (eastbound) direction?
Which lane were you in?
Which part of the lane were you in?

Near the right side of the lane, in right tire track, or in the gutter.
Near the center.
Near the left side of the lane, or in the left tire track.

For how long prior to arriving at the intersection did you see the motorist from the west (who turned south and hit you) approaching?
Was there anything he did or did not do that could have clued you in that he might be turning left in front of you and may not see you?
Was there anything he did or did not do that made you think he did see you?

Is it even legal to fail to report an accident, for either party?

You want them to be punished enough so that they never do it again.
It is a stretch to expect such a result, even regardless of the severity of the punishment (other than death penalty which would affect his existence rather than teach him a lesson).

Odds are, this man has made this and similar left turns thousands of times, the exact same way, without incident, and will continue to do so regardless of the punishment. The odds are that if he continued making his left turns without the extraordinary due diligence required to notice a cyclist coming the other way who is riding right of where through traffic normally travels (which is what probably occured, though we won't know for sure until gboy answers my previous post), he would go through the rest of his driving life without ever causing a similar incident again.

The odds are much higher that cyclists will encounter left turning drivers at intersections who have never hit anyone before (and hence have never been punished for doing so), and yet also do not do so with the extraordinary due diligence required to spot a mispositioned (too far right) through cyclist, than the odds that they will encounter one who has hit someone and has been punished (and, thus, presumably has "learned his lesson").

My point is that punishing drivers for left hooking cyclists (the most common type of car-bike collision) will, at best, be a drop in the bucket in terms of reducing the incidence of left hook collisions, regardless of how severe is the punishment.

More importantly, why worry about that one drop in the bucket, when the remainder of the contents of the bucket are almost totally within the control of the cyclist? Namely, approach intersections in a lane position that makes you visible and predictable, and use appropriate caution in case a turning motorist still doesn't see you.

The key is to learn to develop traffic cycling habits such that you would never be hit even if 50% of the drivers executed left turns with their eyes closed. If you ride vehicularly and defensively, you will not be hit even by those drivers. That takes care of the whole bucket. So why spend energy on the one drop that can be addressed by punishing the tiny of percentage of drivers who actually hit cyclists? What's the point? Vengeance?

How many lanes in your (eastbound) direction?
Which lane were you in?
Which part of the lane were you in?

Near the right side of the lane, in right tire track, or in the gutter.
Near the center.
Near the left side of the lane, or in the left tire track.

For how long prior to arriving at the intersection did you see the motorist from the west (who turned south and hit you) approaching?
Was there anything he did or did not do that could have clued you in that he might be turning left in front of you and may not see you?
Was there anything he did or did not do that made you think he did see you?


1) 4 (1 left[a], 2 straight[b,c], 1 right[d])
2) c
3) Halfway between right and centre of lane (closer to right)
4) At the line (I was at a higher vantage point)
5/6) It appeared that he stopped and was waiting, but continued to move toward me as i crossed the line (his signal lights were on). However, he seemed to recognize his error and started to slow as I tried to veer out of his way, but wasn't successful enough.

From my experience, I usually take the left-most lane or part of the lane when going straight so that left turners can see me, but unfortunately not this time.

Always report an accident if your able. Several years ago I had a bad accident where a van pulled out in front of me on my motorbike. At the time the driver appologised asked if I was okay and took me to hospital. The bike was a write off and I had a splintered shoulder and two broken fingers. However after he dropped me of at the A&E he proceeded to the local police station and gave a statement saying I ran into the back of him whilst parked. Because I was injured the police had to investigate and luckly they noticed the road had damage caused from my footpegs down the centre of the road proving that the point of impact was not where the van driver made out.

California law requires you to report an accident to the police if there has been an injury. That this motorist did so shows he followed the law.

You did not mention the hospital bills. If you went to the emergency room, there are usually a couple of bills. Do you have medical insurance? If so, do you have a hospital visit copay? Did the driver offer to reimburse you for medical bills that were not covered by insurance.

And I do not know where you live, but I hope it is not in one of the 4 or 5 no fault states that require you to go through your auto insurance company to get medical bills paid in the event of an auto accident. I live in New Jersey and was hit by a car while bicycling and was completely not at fault, but I had to use my auto insurance policy for the medical expenses. It was and still is a nightmare trying to get all the medical bills sorted out and this is now two years after the fact. And because I had a large deductible I had to pay for much of the care out of pocket. In New Jersey, even if you are on your front lawn in a chair and a car drives off the road onto the lawn and strikes you, if you have auto insurance, you have to go through your auto insurance to get your medical bills paid. It does not matter who is at fault and the medical providers may mistakenly take your medical insurance card, but the billing offices will come back later and request your auto insurance. Most likely, you don't live in one of these states, but make sure.

See "Do not get hit by a car in New Jersey", http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=104274

I dunno. I'm a near bonafide car-hater, but I couldn't bring myself to get on the case of a 70-year-old. Call me old-fashioned or even age-ist, but I'd cut the guy a break and settle it like gentlemen. I'd be willing to bet he feels terrible about this, and I agree that he should pay for damages without you having to ask.

Just my opinion though. I'm not going to argue with anyone about it, for those of you with 3-paragraph rebuttals on the way.

police reports and insurance should be seperate.

It is good to file police reports for multiple reasons. And if your damage is paid and your bills lost time Ect is paid by him... why should people care if he pays the bills or his insurance?

Sounds to me like the driver was apoligetic and more than willing to make things right, which is hard to find now days. Unfortunatly it will probably be an expensive lesson for him on being more aware while driving.

Hope you feel better soon, and your bike turns out ok. and glad to hear it wasn't worse than what it was.

You did not mention the hospital bills. If you went to the emergency room, there are usually a couple of bills. Do you have medical insurance? If so, do you have a hospital visit copay? Did the driver offer to reimburse you for medical bills that were not covered by insurance.

As I live in Ontario, I didn't mention the hospital bills because all I had to do to receive medical care was provide my OHIP card to the staff. Hopefully, I won't have any long-term injuries that may not be covered by universal health care.



I dunno. I'm a near bonafide car-hater, but I couldn't bring myself to get on the case of a 70-year-old. Call me old-fashioned or even age-ist, but I'd cut the guy a break and settle it like gentlemen. I'd be willing to bet he feels terrible about this, and I agree that he should pay for damages without you having to ask.

Originally, I was going to accept his offer for damages to my bike and pay for lost work, but he reported the accident to the police himself the next morning and was subsequently charged with an improper left-turn.

Personally, I know he was in the wrong, but his behaviour afterwards showed me that not all drivers are out for themselves.

Wow gboy. The last time I got hit (in Toronto) the lady didn't even bother to stick around. She just said are you okay twice and took off.

Don't accept the deal. Contact an attorney.

What if you take a settlement and then find out in a month that you have some kind of internal problem? And consider this - the standard insurance policy says that a company can disclaim coverage if an insured makes a side settlement for an accident. So if you both do that, and you need his insurance coverage, you both be will be out of luck.

Glad you're ok.

You should ALWAYS file a police report (regardless of whether insurance is involved or not). A police report protects BOTH, you & the motorist. All the facts are documented. It protects YOU because, the motorist can not back out and say "I haven't seen this guy in my life before and I wasn't even driving that day" and it protects HIM because you could have gotten runned over by some drunk guy or got into a MUCH bigger accident a few hours later and the blame can be put on him.

Once you have a police report, you can then either choose to resolve the issue between the two of you OR go in the insurance route.

I would personally deal with the guy since he seems to be very reasonable. But if you like dealing with insurance companies, you can go that route as well. I can guarantee you that his rates will more than DOUBLE (personal experience with bicycle vs automobile accident). If he's willing to pay for damages, I would personally go that route. But if you want to be a D*CK and be greedy (which doesn't sound like you), you can even *GASP* ==SUE== the guy. Most insurance companies settle for small things like this and in a few years, you'll get your $$$ and by the same time next year when the guy's insurance expires, they won't renew him anymore.

He did the right thing.....if I were in your shoes, I would too. I would take his offer and bring the bike to the LBS and have him pay for damages (and medical costs). Now the ball's on his court. It's up to him to decide whether to pay out from his own pocket or if it would be more beneficial to get insurance involved and take the risk of a higher premium the next 5 years.

I would just politely decline his deal, and make out with the insurance companies. What if your frame fails later on from crash damage?

In my opinion, you are the best suited to judge how to proceed with this. Have your bike checked out, get fully checked out physically (sounds like you already did). If this guy is offering to pay for everything...KUDOS to him. Yes, he made a mistake, WE ALL DO. Protect yourself but this guy is obviously honorable, putting him through undue stress and expense isn't necessary nor do I believe he is deserving. By all means, make sure your monitary damages are covered, beyond that, he probably got the scare of his life too so square up and let it go.

As for getting a lawyer, I personally think this should be avoided unless absolutely necessary as not to contribute to this overly letigous society!

Glad to hear you weren't hurt any worse.

Take care,
Steve

The guy hits you, puts you in the hospital, is at fault, and you feel sorry for him? :rolleyes:

If I am ever hit by a car, I will be thankful if they don't drive away afterwards.

Near the right side of the lane, in right tire track, or in the gutter.


I always ride in the groove worn by the right tire when I am "taking the lane." Is this not far left enough? Thanks.

As I live in Ontario, I didn't mention the hospital bills because all I had to do to receive medical care was provide my OHIP card to the staff. Hopefully, I won't have any long-term injuries that may not be covered by universal health care.

I wish I lived in Canada just for the healthcare. The US healthcare system is a disgrace.

.....just don't complain when you see the tax that gets deducted from you paycheck :)

.....just don't complain when you see the tax that gets deducted from you paycheck :)

I won't. I'm self employed, so I'm not in a group plan and I pay $1,020 a month for a family of 3 with a $30 copay for doctors visits and a 50% copay for prescriptions, so believe me I am paying now anyway.
And even when I was working for small and medium sized companies and was part of their health care plans, I had to pay a portion of the health care premium. I hear more American's complaining about the state of our healthcare than I do Canadians or Europeans complaining.

I know this has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, but I could not help myself. Forgive me.

As a resident of Ontario and a frequent benefactor of bicycle insurance claims, may I be the first to congratulate you on your soon to be new bike.

Contact the insurance company and initiate a claim. If they ask who your automobile insurance company is, and they will, tell them that you are not insured under any policy. This will force them to deal with you directly. Get a replacement estimate for insurance purposes from your bike store, and don't forget to include any and all accessories, including helmet and the clothes that you were wearing at the time.

Let the insurance company know that in order to expedite the claim process that you are willing to sign a Personal Injuries Claims Waiver if they will cover the replacement cost of the bike. This is music to their ears because it means that once the property claim is settled that the file is closed for good, and it gets the file off of the adjusters desk quickly. They will probably want the old bike for "salvage purposes". I have had a cheque in my hands within 24 hours of the accident. All very legal.