General Cycling Discussion - White Man Sport?

While watching the TDF this year, I began wondering why professional cycling is so "white" of a sport. I don't remember seeing any other racial groups represented and I'm really curious as to why. Does anyone have any insight into this?

P.S. This thread is not intended to offend anyone. Please be sensitive with any comments that may be made here.

Here's some interesting history of blacks in cycling.


Marshall Walter ("Major") Taylor (November 26, 1878 - June 21, 1932) was an American cyclist who won the world 1-mile track cycling championship in 1899, 1900, and 1901.

Taylor was the second black world champion in any sport, after boxer George Dixon. The Major Taylor Velodrome in Indianapolis, Indiana is named in his honor. His memory is honored not only for his athletic feats, but for the nobility of character in the process of achieving them which make him a true role model. Taylor was a devout Christian who would not race on Sundays for much of his career, making his success all the more remarkable.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Taylor

What, you never heard of Major Taylor? :-)

My theory is that it's less of a "white" thing than it is a combination of socio-economic status (bikes are expensive), ethnic cultural biases ("Cycling is for white people"), and opportunities (how many of us have to work at getting to a place to cycle, while passing up facilities for football, basketball, baseball, etc?). That and the vicious cycle (pardon the pun) of having no relevant role models. Same for swimming. Athletically gifted athletes of African origin tend to gravitate towards sports where they've seen success by people who look like them. The same endurance that makes a good cyclist also makes a good soccer player...

Because the sponsors want to sponsor people that will help them sell to the high-dollar demographic? "Black folk don't sell (to white folk?)"

Ok...I'd like to throw this into the mix then for thought. How about Asians? Look at how much strength and endurance they have in a sports like gymnastics or diving, plus with their smaller frames (physical), I would think they would excel at cycling.

cycling is huge in japan but they go nuts for track racing, keirin in particular. people bet on it like hose races.

as for the pro peloton being white, i think it's mostly due to cycling being predominately a western european sport(till this year anyway!)

ed-horse races.
hose races could be fun though....

Hispanics are pretty well represented in the peleton. However, one of the things my wife and I discussed during the TdF coverage is that back in the late 80's, when Team 7-11 was around, the Colombians were very strong in the mountains. This year, I didn't hear about too many of the Columbian climbers.

Good points about the Asians and Blacks though. It would be nice to see more diversity in the sport.

Ok...I'd like to throw this into the mix then for thought. How about Asians? Look at how much strength and endurance they have in a sports like gymnastics or diving, plus with their smaller frames (physical), I would think they would excel at cycling.

Eh? This is the first time I've heard of Asians as having a lot of strength and endurance :D

Asian cultures don't seem to place as much empahsis on sports as Westerners. For starters, in most of Asia, cycling is the peasants' form of transport. Everyone aspires to driving a car- witness the explosion of cars in China and Taiwan over the last decade. Japan, which is wealthy, is a bit of an exception to this in that it's developed its own form of racing, but even in Japan cycling is a fringe activity. In most of asia, riding recreationally would be the last thing on anyones mind. I've noticed something similar when touring in South America- people think that cycle tourists are crazy and look down on them for choosing such a cheap method of transportation.


There are the obvious exceptions such as table tennis, badminton, etc. However, we certainly are not noted for dominating the world when it comes to track and field where strength and endurance are key. Smaller bodies woudn't help much either. Sure, it's important in gymnastics or diving where low centers of gravity and shorter bone levers help. But the TdF riders didn't tend to be small, did they?

our local races in NY are pretty diverse.

Japan took silver for Men's track cycling in Athens 2004.

Japan Toshiaki Fushimi, Masaki Inoue, Tomohiro Nagatsuka 44.355

http://www.smh.com.au/olympics/schedule/cycling/day8.html

Because the sponsors want to sponsor people that will help them sell to the high-dollar demographic? "Black folk don't sell (to white folk?)"

Explain the NBA then. Or professional boxing.

Kenya, Ethiopia, Tanzania have a good history of long distance runners. Their physique would also be good for such events as TdF.

>>Kenya, Ethiopia, Tanzania have a good history of long distance runners. Their physique would also be good for such events as TdF.

Yup. But how many pre-teens, tweens & teenagers in these countries have access to bikes, gear, coaches, and enough competition to get the attention & sponsors needed to become top-level cyclists? Not many, so they become runners instead. Ones with a bit more resources become footballers.

Explain the NBA then. Or professional boxing.

Okay then: NBA and pro boxing bodies don't try to sell $1000 pieces of sporting equipment. They sell tickets to fans (a couple hours of entertainment, not a durable material good like a bike) or merchanising.

As a teacher of linguistics (therefore a student of social trends and cultural anthropology), these kind of questions fascinate me. I'd say that it is because of the fact that until recently, professional road cycling was a sport dominated by Western Europe. It wasn't until LeMond that Americans really started to get an interest (at a popular level). Until recently, Western Europe wasn't known for it's ethnic diversity beyond different white-caucasian ethnicities. That may be a reason behind it, but I cannot say that I am speaking authoritatively--just an untested and unresearched hypothesis. I would guess that in the next 10 years we will see an increase in non-white in cycling. I truly look forward to it.

That may be a reason behind it, but I cannot say that I am speaking authoritatively--just an untested and unresearched hypothesis. I would guess that in the next 10 years we will see an increase in non-white in cycling. I truly look forward to it.

Untested hypotheses are the most interesting ones :D

I would bet against you though. I don't think we'll see a significant increase in non-white cycling. I'm not expecting any major economic improvements to most of Africa, and I think Asia has too many factors against it- cultural disinterest (eg China is more into material weath, not sporting diversity) and completely inapporpriate weather in the southeast.

This thread is pretty good so far. Everyone's being rational. Anyone care to guess as to how long this thread can avoid PC ranting? :D

I'm glad you brought it up....because I'd been thinking of starting a thread like this since the beginning days of the TDF.

I notice a few white Americans, a bunch of white Europeans and a smattering of Central/South American hispanics. I noticed no black (American/African/Islands/Other), not to mention Asians.

Okay then: NBA and pro boxing bodies don't try to sell $1000 pieces of sporting equipment. They sell tickets to fans (a couple hours of entertainment, not a durable material good like a bike) or merchanising.

There's some truth in this.

The NBA sells their clothing line to inner city youth but it's the sneaker manufacturers that make the top dollar. You can't sell a 1K bike in the inner city but sneakers are a different story.

Because the sponsors want to sponsor people that will help them sell to the high-dollar demographic? "Black folk don't sell (to white folk?)"


...and no white kids ever bought Air Jordan? Inflamatory BS

What, you never heard of Major Taylor? :-)

My theory is that it's less of a "white" thing than it is a combination of socio-economic status (bikes are expensive), ethnic cultural biases ("Cycling is for white people"), and opportunities (how many of us have to work at getting to a place to cycle, while passing up facilities for football, basketball, baseball, etc?). That and the vicious cycle (pardon the pun) of having no relevant role models. Same for swimming. Athletically gifted athletes of African origin tend to gravitate towards sports where they've seen success by people who look like them. The same endurance that makes a good cyclist also makes a good soccer player...

There was actually a movie made of Major Taylor and his struggles.

"Tracks of Glory" http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0103113/

The description on IMDB is less than glamorous however:


The less-than-exciting sport of cycle-racing gets the Australian mini-series treatment in Marcus Cole's "Tracks of Glory", set in the early 1900s. As usual with these things, the period is nicely evoked and the script maintains a steady pace, but the drama is too restrained and - with the notable exception of Richard Roxburgh's performance as a flashy sports promoter - the characters aren't terribly interesting. The two leading men, Cameron Daddo and Phil Morris, are attractive and talented, but neither of them is allowed to broaden the range of their muted characterisations.

Okay then: NBA and pro boxing bodies don't try to sell $1000 pieces of sporting equipment. They sell tickets to fans (a couple hours of entertainment, not a durable material good like a bike) or merchanising.

Now explain Tiger Woods.

The more expensive a sport cost to get involved in, the less minorities you will see in it. You'll actually see a lot more people riding bikes in poor neighborhoods and poor countries but you won't see them riding expensive ones nor racing competive.

Seeing minorities in Bicycling Magazine are rare.

The Tour du Faso takes place in Africa and had a lot of native Africans in the race.

I think that someone should start a foundation to encourage AA's to get into cyling. Look what Tiger did for golf and the William sisters did for tennis. I do believe that it is economics and I can't imagine locking my bike up down town Detroit.

Be careful where you step in this thread

Be careful where you step in this thread
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/ozstubacca/Smileys/popcorn.gif

i don't necessarily think economics is the main reason, only a secondary reason. there are countless examples of "poor" people finding money to purchase cars, expensive rims, stereo equipment, designer clothes, etc. the cultural aspect is the main thing. it's just not a sport that brings the people of the world together. maybe in time it will, but not now.

good points thus far, being new to the riding envrioment it wasn't something I noticed untill last weekends local crit. only saw 5 or 8 people of color out of nearly 150 riders all day. granted, I do live in a fairly sub-urban envrioment.

I don't think a kid from the inner city is going to be willing to put down $2-3000 for a bike when it has a very high chance of being stolen.

cycling.tv often has races with mixed cultures. I have seen Road Races from Central America and MTB in Africa on there. Maybe TV coverage could play a role in the exposure. Of course this has little to do with who you see at your local crits etc.
As for Asians vs Endurance, I can only comment on Japan, but I have found Marathon and Ekiden (long distance relay) are extremely popular here. Cycling to the everyday "salary man" is mainly for commuting here, but there are High Schools here that include Road Cycling as a school sport. Those in the Road, Track and MTB scene are very serious and many very good. I would suggest many of the local club riders around here are excellent hill climbers.
Steve.

I don't think a kid from the inner city is going to be willing to put down $2-3000 for a bike when it has a very high chance of being stolen.

BAM!

I don't think a kid from the inner city is going to be willing to put down $2-3000 for a bike when it has a very high chance of being stolen.

possibly. bikes don't need to cost 2-3k though. in fact, there is little chance i could afford that myself. a road bike worthy of entry level racing could be had for less than a computer. if a kid had the desire to bike, they could find the way to get the money. hell, like i said above some of these kids have cars that cost more than my yearly salary.

but anyway, why are we focusing on the poorest of the poor, and why does any talk of minorities instantly resort to 'the inner city'. there are minoritys in all income brackets - so why don't they ride as much? i still think it's a cultural reason.

[edit] by the way, i used to live in the poorest neighborhood of new york city - bushwick. i lived there for two years and rode my bike everyday.

If basketball, baseball, football required a $1000-$5000 ball...they would all be white man sports.

Why arent many minorities in golf? $$$$
What happened when Tiger hit the lynx?

Why arent minorities in Supercross? $$$$
What happened when Bubba Stewart turned pro?

Why arent minorities in cycling?$$$$

Why are AA's good at basketball, baseball, football? Its basically free and can be played on any corner growing up.

I can go on and on with examples...but you guys should get the picture.


So why the lack of minorites in the TDF or in cycling in general....too expensive. Bring on some AA's...I think they are physiologically advanced over all other races and would excel such as Armstrong who is physiologically advanced over everyone he races against but you arent going to see them racing anytime soon becuase they arent bred to do it from a young age due to cost.

I seriously wonder why the majority of basketball players are black and the majority of pro cyclists are white.
And for those of you who like to pretend that everything is fair in the world, there has to be a reason why.

"if a kid had the desire to bike, they could find the way to get the money. hell, like i said above some of these kids have cars that cost more than my yearly salary. "

How many nice bikes do you see cruising through the ghetto? ive never seen one...the roads suck, people drive like a-holes, might get jacked, etc... where is a kid who may have the ability, even going to get an idea let alone motivation/desire about cycling if it doesnt happen around him and its not on TV?

All their freinds are playing some sort of ball that doesnt cost much money....lets go play ball with the crew or im gonna go buy a bike and ride by myself since none of the other kids can afford bikes...then im gonna have to work a lot to pay for the bike and never have time to ride it...whereas the middle to upper income non minority says "dad I want a bike and want to start racing" and dad says "ok but you gotta get good grades"..."ok dad" and now the kid has a nice bike, support from family, etc...

Big fancy cars, expensive clothes, etc...gives them a status or sense of worth...cycling in spandex in their mind gets them at the least made fun of but more likely outkasted, beat up, etc...

Mentor a minority kid, get him a bike, support him, pay his entry fees, bike repairs etc...I bet he goes a long way that he couldnt have gone without that help/money and that right there will answer the question why more minorities arent professional cyclists...

I seriously wonder why the majority of basketball players are black and the majority of pro cyclists are white.
And for those of you who like to pretend that everything is fair in the world, there has to be a reason why.

Basketball is free...

Now say you cycled as much as an up and coming b-ball player practiced hoops...you would be going through tires, tubes, chains, bikes, lubes, clothes, etc...they all cost money and lots of money.

Ok, so why is it that a lot of people have instantly made the "Black == poor" assumption? My neighborhood is about 60% african american, 30% caucasian (whatever that means), and 10% 'other', mostly asia and india. But all the buildings are about the same (100yo quads), the lots are about the same size, and we are all in the same income bracket (upper-low class).

So please, stop assuming that all black people come from the ghetto! The ones that are there were pushed there by racist towns that had "No black people allowed" laws on their books. Some of these towns still have these laws (they may be unconstitutional, but no one will fight them), and even the ones that have been struck down still somehow manage to have no houses on the market anytime a black person comes around. There are over 3000 cities that had or have these laws in the US, and not in the south where you'd expect them, they are scattered across the entire US. A surprising number are in the pacific northwest. These "Sundown" towns (called that because it used to be popular to put a sign up on the highway entering the town that said, "N*****, don't let the sun come down on you in Pleasant Hills") drove blacks into the only place that didn't have these laws, the big cities. Now, the demographics are different, but people are still just people, some rich, and some poor. But for some reason we still equate Urban = Black = Poor.

I think that the cycling thing is a combination of role models, advertising, and regional domination. If Western Europe dominated cycling for a long time, then you are going to see mostly Western Europeans, just by nature of their interest in the sport. The Japanese are great cyclists, but they favor track events, not long tours. They whup it up in the Olympics, but they don't put much effort into big tours. People in africa have different opportunities, but they also have different role models. You can't learn to be a great cyclist unless you have a great coach, and if your coaches are all ex-olympic runners, you are going to be a runner. Its rare that someone comes out of nowhere and trains themselves, but in some ways, that is what is needed to kick off a population in that sport.

The fact that an American has dominated the TdF for so long may open the doors to other Americans, black or white or whatever. But people still need role models, and they still need coaches.

Anyway, just my few cents.

peace,
sam

The fact is, "Pro" level athletes are very rare, in any sport, when related to the number of people in a given ethnic group. Of about three million African-American males in the "prime" age group to play in the NBA, less than 300 are currently doing so. About 100 make it for each million of "eligible" candidates.

Pro level road cyclists are even more rare. About 30 Americans are making a "good" living as a "Pro" road cyclist, out of about thirty million American males in the age 20 to age 35 range. So, a "Pro" road cylist is a one in a million sort of guy.

The "failure" rate among every ethnic group in America at producing cyclists good enough to finish the Tour de France is about 99.999....%. The only difference in the failure rate among Anglo-Americans, Asian-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, and African-Americans is how many "9's" to put after the decimal point.

In comparison, there are some villages in Belgium where it is "normal" for a significant number of twenty-something guys to give Pro cycling a "go". Of course, it helps a bit when there are five or ten "Pro" races within a hundred miles of home every summer week-end. Heck, in Belgium, guys often can ride their bikes TO the race...

does it really matter ? are we cycling for enjoyment or for racial equality?why are a lot of tires black ? does that say anything about us whiteyz?do we have to make a political issue of sports? i ride to get away from it all politics , work , bla bla bla.

While watching the TDF this year, I began wondering why professional cycling is so "white" of a sport. I don't remember seeing any other racial groups represented and I'm really curious as to why. Does anyone have any insight into this?

P.S. This thread is not intended to offend anyone. Please be sensitive with any comments that may be made here.

I could care less how it is perceived or what racial group participates. I ride for me.

Now explain Tiger Woods.

Oh come on now. Are you being deliberately obtuse? Tiger Woods is a statistical anomaly. And if I recall correctly, he faced a lot of cultural inertia in the beginning. Only long years of incredible performance managed to overcome that.

If there was a Japanese or a Chinese rider who could consistantly dominate the TdF, you'd probably see a lot more Japanese or Chinese getting into cycling in their home countries. And maybe in the US as well. But it hasn't happened yet.

Asian cultures don't seem to place as much empahsis on sports as Westerners.True, and there's really no time for most any type of sporting activity due to pursuance of academic excellence above all as these children are brought up...

does it really matter ? are we cycling for enjoyment or for racial equality?why are a lot of tires black ? does that say anything about us whiteyz?do we have to make a political issue of sports? i ride to get away from it all politics , work , bla bla bla.

First fluffy PC post at #39! :D

I don't see it as a political issue- it's an interesting cultural question. Just because it touches on culture and race, does that somehow make it offlimits to civilised discussion?

And tyres are black because carbon is added to rubber as a reinforcing filler. It improves durability and strength. If you bothered to question things, then you probably wouldn't have to ask why tyres are black.

True, and there's really no time for most any type of sporting activity due to pursuance of academic excellence above all as these children are brought up...


Yeah, there is some truth to that. The way I was brought up (Asian, in rural Oz), the thought of not going to university simply never entered my mind. It was only after I finished studying that I realised that this was a bit of an unusual mindset for someone growing up in rural Australia.

I think my parents' generation had it hammered into them (as a result of WWII) that education was paramount because nobody could ever take it away from you. The importance of study in Hong Kong, Korean and Japan is still very high today.

"Be careful where you step in this thread"

Why? You've been laying landmine patties? ;)

Personally, being Asian, I don't see why there's such a push in our culture for "equality" or "representation" across the board, everywhere and anywhere, of all peoples and cultures. I hate affirmative action and other reverse-discrimination practices. So what if golf (before Woods) was a white guy's sport, so what if biking has mostly white guys, or saling, or squash or crocquet or fencing or advanced basket-weaving, who cares? I certainly don't.

"If there was a Japanese or a Chinese rider who could consistantly dominate the TdF, you'd probably see a lot more Japanese or Chinese getting into cycling in their home countries. And maybe in the US as well. But it hasn't happened yet."

I guess it does come down to a matter of role models and upbringing. Parents play a huge part here and if your daddy watched and played football or basketball while you're growing up, you'd probably gravitate that way as well.

$$$$ is one possible explanation, but really you can get fast riding a POS bike and then a sponsor will appear and put you on a better one. Nelson Vails was sure not rich. It's gotta be a cultural thing.

Keep in mind that over in Europe, groups like Finns and Basques are often considered an underclass or "minority" group, even though they're also white.

What intrigues me the most is, over in Europe, bike racing is considered a way for a poor kid to work his (her?) way up. In fact, Tim Krabbe, a noted writer over there, wanted to be a bike racer but was discouraged out of it, he was too high on the socioeconomic ladder. It wasn't a proper thing to do.

There's a Major Taylor cycling club locally here, that has the aim of getting kids into biking, horray! A club I'd like to join has a program to send bikes to Nicaragua to help out their team, horray! I saw two kids today who looked Hispanic I'd guess, on skinny road bikes, horray! My jaw almost hit the road, almost all kids would never be seen on those, only on BMX bikes or mtb's. But these two kids had skinny road bikes that looked well cared for, I watched 'em go by and thought, I wonder if I'm looking at a couple of future prominent bike racers?

Role models/upbringing is probably "the" factor. One of my earliest memories is riding in the "baby seat" on the front (!) of my dad's blue Raleigh and zooming and swooping around and zigzagging over the white line in the road (not much traffic then on Sunday morning). Dad taught me how to fix a flat, and his bike had those leather things that hung down off of the hubs with a reflector, to polish the hubs as the bike was ridden. Everyone in the family had a bike, except Mom of course, as soon as you could toddle you could ride a trike, and had one. We learned the playing cards in the spokes trick early. When the oldest kid got a new bike, all the younger kids moved up by one bike lol. Bikes were just a huge part of the culture growing up, for me.

What, you never heard of Major Taylor? :-)

My theory is that it's less of a "white" thing than it is a combination of socio-economic status (bikes are expensive), ...

Maybe in the US, but not in Europe. Cycling is a peasant or working class sport in Europe.

$$$$ is one possible explanation, but really you can get fast riding a POS bike and then a sponsor will appear and put you on a better one. Nelson Vails was sure not rich. It's gotta be a cultural thing.

Keep in mind that over in Europe, groups like Finns and Basques are often considered an underclass or "minority" group, even though they're also white.

What intrigues me the most is, over in Europe, bike racing is considered a way for a poor kid to work his (her?) way up. In fact, Tim Krabbe, a noted writer over there, wanted to be a bike racer but was discouraged out of it, he was too high on the socioeconomic ladder. It wasn't a proper thing to do.



this is how i think too. finn and basque riders are a perfect example of why you can't say it's all about the $$$.

Ok, so why is it that a lot of people have instantly made the "Black == poor" assumption? My neighborhood is about 60% african american, 30% caucasian (whatever that means), and 10% 'other', mostly asia and india. But all the buildings are about the same (100yo quads), the lots are about the same size, and we are all in the same income bracket (upper-low class).

So please, stop assuming that all black people come from the ghetto! The ones that are there were pushed there by racist towns that had "No black people allowed" laws on their books. Some of these towns still have these laws (they may be unconstitutional, but no one will fight them), and even the ones that have been struck down still somehow manage to have no houses on the market anytime a black person comes around. There are over 3000 cities that had or have these laws in the US, and not in the south where you'd expect them, they are scattered across the entire US. A surprising number are in the pacific northwest. These "Sundown" towns (called that because it used to be popular to put a sign up on the highway entering the town that said, "N*****, don't let the sun come down on you in Pleasant Hills") drove blacks into the only place that didn't have these laws, the big cities. Now, the demographics are different, but people are still just people, some rich, and some poor. But for some reason we still equate Urban = Black = Poor.

I think that the cycling thing is a combination of role models, advertising, and regional domination. If Western Europe dominated cycling for a long time, then you are going to see mostly Western Europeans, just by nature of their interest in the sport. The Japanese are great cyclists, but they favor track events, not long tours. They whup it up in the Olympics, but they don't put much effort into big tours. People in africa have different opportunities, but they also have different role models. You can't learn to be a great cyclist unless you have a great coach, and if your coaches are all ex-olympic runners, you are going to be a runner. Its rare that someone comes out of nowhere and trains themselves, but in some ways, that is what is needed to kick off a population in that sport.

The fact that an American has dominated the TdF for so long may open the doors to other Americans, black or white or whatever. But people still need role models, and they still need coaches.

Anyway, just my few cents.

peace,
sam


As I have been reading this thread I was waiting for some one to say this. Everyone here assumes Blacks come from the getto. The few black friends I know have more money than me and don't race bikes. In fact when I started racing I myself was poor, though educated and with potential. I started racing on a bike that was probably worth $150 tops. I don't have any answers but I don't think lack of money is it. I do a few races in the Wash DC area and they are diverse. Maybe it's geography?

Because the sponsors want to sponsor people that will help them sell to the high-dollar demographic? "Black folk don't sell (to white folk?)"




Yep, just like Tiger Woods.

Seriously if I had a nickle for every thing Mike Jordan sold to a white kid I'd be retired on a small Island in the Bahamas, with my own personal velodrome of course.