Classic & Vintage - Schwinn Voyageur, Super Sport And Le Tour - Dif???

I’m confused about the seemingly overlap of the following Schwinn models: the Voyageur, Super Sport and Le Tour.

All three reportedly have Chrome Moly main tubes, but the Super Sport appears to be the only one with Chrome Moly chain stays? All three bikes seem to have been offered at the same time during the early 80s. So, what is the hierarchy here? What differentiates these three models? Which bike has the best frame?

Thank you,

Jason

I’m confused about the seemingly overlap of the following Schwinn models: the Voyageur, Super Sport and Le Tour. So, what is the hierarchy here?


As an older rider (but a newbie here) who rode European in the late 60's and in the 70's (which means that I ignored a whole generation or two of Schwinns) I too am confused. I'd like to expand the question a bit if I may: What is the hierarchy of lightweight, multispeed Schwinns? Paramount at the top, then...? And at the bottom, what, Varsity?

john in oregon

Start with this great website that Bob Hufford, and friends, has put together.
http://www.geocities.com/sldatabook/
Different years will have different answers to your questions.

Kerk beat me to the link. Great data there, though seems that things get sketchy after the early 80's.

Since I built up an '83 le tour frame recently, I can tell you what little I've learned about le tours. It started as a Japanese-made bike in about '73, I think. Up until '82, as best I can tell, they were made from 1020 steel. I'm not sure what year they began making the frames in the U.S., but I have both an '83 and an '84 that have decals stating that the frames were made in the U.S. And both the '83 and '84 are of lugged 4130 steel, including the "main tubes and stays" on both of them, as stated on the decals. I'm thinking these frames were made at the Greenville, Mississippi Schwinn plant, but I haven't seen anything definite on this........The le tour was probably made in Japan again soon after, or maybe even some '83 or '84 le tour models were Japanese made, because it seems that almost all le tours were made in Japan. Another thing that adds some confusion to all this is that I've seen le tours, le tour luxes, super le tours, and maybe more variations of the le tour.....The '83 le tour has turned out to be a great bike. I've got it set up with mostly modern components, including a 3 x 9 drivetrain with bar-end shifters. I put a dark blue paint job on it with a Brooks saddle, and I'm enjoying it every time I ride it.

Thanks Kerk,

It is a great website, but as cuda2k pointed out, the site runs out of bananas after 1979. And the early 80s is where the overlap between the Voyager, Super Sport and Le Tour shows up.

Attached is a brochure showing the Super Sport to be a touring bike, strange considering the name. “Sport’ and “touring” are somewhat opposite terms.

I always considered the Paramount to be the top of the Schwinn line followed by the Voyageur. But after reading about the Super Sport, I’m not so sure anymore.

Jason

Sorry all - the JPG file of the Super Sport brochure I promised is evidently too large to post.

If anyone can think of a way around this, please let me know.

Jason

The "Super Sport" name was used off and on for three decades, and the "Le Tour" and "Voyageur" names for two decades. Some years the "Le Tour" name was used for a bike that was only a moderate step up from the Varsity, and in other years, the "Super Le Tour" was one of Schwinn's best road bikes.

The "Voyageur" name has been used for road bikes, touring bikes, and hybrids. The "Super Sport" of the 1960's was a very different bike than the "Super Sport" of 1987. So, to compare the three lines of bikes, it would be necessary to be talk about ONE specific year.

Ok, here is a link to a '81/82 Schwinn Super Sport brochure.

http://www.schwinnbike.com/heritage/attachment.php?attachmentid=20882

Based on the specifications in the brochure, this is a premium bicycle! I always thought the Schwinn Voyageur was just below the Paramount in terms of quality and lightness. But after seeing this brochure, I think the Super Sport surpasses the Voyageur.

For instance, the Voyageur weighs 26 pounds, whereas the Super Sport weighs 26.1 pounds with water bottle and front and rear racks, according to the brochure. So, if you remove the water bottle and racks, the Super Sport would weigh less than the Voyageur!

Another 80s bike that is close to the Voyageur and Super Sport in terms of quality and weight is the Le Tour 12.2. This bike weighs a respectable 26.8 pounds, which is close to the Voyageur and Super Sport weights. So, if I were to define the Schwinn hierarchy in the early 80s, it would be: Paramount, Super Sport, Voyageur, Le Tour 12.8 and then the rest.

Shoot, I’m going to trade in my clunky Voyageur on a sleek Super Sport; anyone know where I can find one???

Cheers!

Jason

When I built up the '83 le tour, I "modernized" it, with a SRAM 9speed cassette (11 x 32), used XT rear der., a touring crankset I found at Nashbar (48-38-28), 105 front der., new 36-spoke 700c wheelset with freehub (Nashbar closeout), had to put BMX brakes on the rear to reach the 700c rim, and I used 9speed bar-end shifters with some new aero brake levers, and a Brooks B17 saddle. The old parts I used were: frame, fork, front Dia-Compe dual-pivot brakes (actually came off an '84 le tour, the '83 had center-pulls), headset, stem, handlebars, and seatpost. Just like with the bare frame, for the heck of it, I weighed it when I got it done: 25 lbs., 6 ounces. Obviously the parts I used weren't particularly light, but for a commuter/tourer it's fine. I have no idea what it weighed with the original parts on it, it had not been a complete bike since about '84. Since then, I've added gizmo clamps with bottle cages, fenders, and a rear rack.

Sorry about that, I thought I was responding to the post regarding the weights of older steel bikes-

Jason,

I had an '86 Super Sport and it was a very respectable road bike. Full Shimano 600, sew-ups, etc.. Nicer than the Voyageur that I had for a very short while (I picked it up at an auction -- I was going for a mid-'60s Carlton, but couldn't leave the Voyageur there at $15. It was an early '80s model -- grey with blue and white decals -- I'd call it utilitarian. I traded it off. Then again, the Voyageur was designed to be more of a touring rig and probably rode better loaded.

Sorry about the lack of '80s bike info on the SLDB site. I bid off more that I could chew trying to put together 1960 - 1979 as it was. It will probably take me another few years to get that fleshed out. I'll move on to the '80s when that is done unless someone wants to step up. Someone? Anyone?

Bob Hufford
Springfield, MO
Keeper of the Schwinn Lightweight Data Book
http://www.geocities.com/sldatabook/cover.html
bhufford3@mchsi.com

I have an '84 Voyageur and while nice, it doesn't hold a candle to my '73 Voyageurs. It does have the water bottle braze ons but that can't make up for the rest of the frame and components.

Kerk,

I have an '80 Voyageur. How would it compare to your '73 Voyageur? Are there differences in frame geometry and materials between the two years?

Thanks,

Jason

Jason - The '80 model would be the 11.8, right? It came right after the Schwinn Voyageur II which came after the '73 World Voyageur. I don't have an 11.8, but I understand that they are very nice riders. I'm not real sure how the frames compare. I wouldn't be surprised to find them very similar. The major components that come on the 11.8 don't compare with the components that came on the '73 World Voyageur. I'm talking about the shifters, derailures, cranks, etc. I'm just talking off the top of my head. I don't have a spec sheet here in front of me. On the other hand, I have been told that the 11.8 is a better bike than the '84 Voyageur that I have.

Kerk,

Yes, the '80 Voyageur is an 11.8, meaning it weighs 11.8kg or 25.9 pounds. The 11.8 came with a Shimano Altus LT derailleur system, which was pretty close to the bottom of the Shimano line in those days. Brakes were Dia Compe 500 G and crank arms were Super Maxi. Not a particularly impressive group.

And I suspect that the only frame parts on the 11.8 that are cro-mo are the top and down tubes; the remaining tubes are probably water-pipe material.

So, I'm guessing that the '80 11.8 and the '84 Voyageur have similar frames and that the older Voyageur frames are constructed entirely of cro-mo?

Regards,

Jason

The 1980 catalog says that the 11.8 frame has 4130 chrome-moly main frame tubes, and that the top and down tubes are double butted. I have one of these in full chrome that I like very much. I upgraded it to Shimano 600 and put a triple on it. I think it has a sweeter feel to it than the '77 Schwinn Volare with a Reynolds 531 frame which I recently bought. The Volare cost quite a bit more originally. The difference may be in the frame size though. The 11.8 is a 58 cm frame, and the Volare is about a 52 cm. Although I am only 5' 7", and the 52 cm frame is a better fit for me, I can safely ride a 58 cm and tend to like the feel of the larger frames better.

Sierra,

Strange you mentioned the Volare, I have been thinking about bidding on a really nice one on that is currently listed on E-bay.

I guess the Voyageur has a more relaxed feel to it compared to the Volare, but it's got to be significantly heavier? How much does your Volare weigh?

Thanks,

Jason

I don't know. I'll weigh it tonight. The catalog lists it as 25 lbs. approx. Depending on frame size.

Recently I've mostly been riding an early seventies Gitane Tour de France with Reynolds 531 frame, and a circa Y2K Schwinn Peloton with a tig welded Reynolds 853 frame. Both these bikes feel similar with a lively, responsive ride to them. The Volare by comparison just feels kind of dead. It lacks the lively feel to it. I was surprised by this considering it has the lugged 531 frame. I haven't ridden the 11.8 for a while, but I remember it having more of that responsive feel that the Gitane and Peloton both have. Again though, all the other bikes have larger frames, so that might be the difference. I would love to have the chance to ride a 58 cm Volare to see how it compares.

Actually there's 2 Volares going right now. One is nicer but they're both in pretty good shape.

I "worked" (too young for it to be official) in a Schwinn shop in the mid-later 1970s and saw legions of eletro-forged 10 speeds as well as scads of Panasonic LeTours and a few somewhat scarcer models such as the Voyageurs. Volares blow them all away.

I'd go so far as saying the Volare might just be "classic" Schwinn's best roadie.

Heresy I know, but you're talking a full 531 bike and I can't help but think the guys who brazed them in Japan could learn all that much from their Chicago counterparts. To compound my theological errors I'll also say that a full DuraAce bike rode as smooth and shifted better than a similar era Campy bike. Of course Campy won/wins the "panache" war.

One wonders why there aren't more? One of the eBayers said it has to do with Ricardo Montalban singing about a crappy car. :) Probably Schwinn knew that a good supply of Volares would cause serious trouble for their Paramount operation.

I'll go hide from the villagers carrying their torches now.



:beer:

Probably Schwinn knew that a good supply of Volares would cause serious trouble for their Paramount operation.

I've heard the same thing said about the World Voyageurs that Schwinn was importing in '72-'73.

I had another thought on the Volare. It's has the original wheelset with probably the original tires still on it(the bike looks like it wasn't ridden more than a couple hundred miles total, it's a beauty!). I should put a better set of wheels/tires on it and see if it improves the feel of the bike.

I've heard a lot of great things about the Volare. Looks like a great bike.

I took a look at my Voyageurs and the '73 has a decal that says 4130 Chrome Moly Butted Tubes and the '84 says Champion #2 Butted Tubes.

The lbs that sold me the '73 Voyageur told me that Schwinn was making changes to the Voyageur line because they were afraid that the sales were hurting the Paramount sales.

I just rode my Blue '73 this week for the first time. I got it a year ago off eBay and have been restoring it. Believe it or not, I just picked up another one a couple of weeks ago. Now I have two Orange and two Blue all original except saddles. All that and I still can't find a yellow one.

And to make the mix even more interesting, what’s everyone’s opinion about an early 80s Schwinn Super Sport? This bike has a full Cro-mo frame and SunTour Cyclone derailleurs. Interestingly, the Super Sport wheels appear to be metric. In contrast, the Voyageur’s wheels from that era are 27” and the derailleurs are Shimano Altus Lt.

Toss in the Cro-mo Le Tour and it seems that Schwinn made too many models to compete in too small a market. The end result was Schwinn competing with itself, or so it appears.

I weighed the Volare this morning using a bathroom scale of pretty good quality. First with just me, then with me and the bike it came to 23-24 pounds depending on how I tipped my weight on the scale.

Kerk, I picked up a small framed orange World Voyageur on ebay a few months ago. It needs to be totally gone through and I won't have the time until winter. The paint and decals are in good shape, but it looks like it was stored in humid conditions and there is some peppering and roughness on the chrome head lugs. What a shame, but, I didn't pay much for it compared to others that I've seen on ebay. Strange handlebars the way they angle out at the ends. I've seen plenty of randonneur bars, but I've never seen any like these before. I look forward to overhauling it this winter and trying it out next spring.

Sierra,

Thanks for the Volare weight. As I suspected, it's considerably lighter than the Voyageur 11.8. However, some of this weight difference may be due to the 52cm frame size, as the 11.8 weight may be based on a slightly larger frame?

Jason

I've seen some Schwinn catalogs where the given bike weight was specified as a 58 cm or 23" frame size. This was usually about the middle of the range for the frame sizes offered.

Kerk, I picked up a small framed orange World Voyageur on ebay a few months ago. It needs to be totally gone through and I won't have the time until winter. The paint and decals are in good shape, but it looks like it was stored in humid conditions and there is some peppering and roughness on the chrome head lugs. What a shame, but, I didn't pay much for it compared to others that I've seen on ebay. Strange handlebars the way they angle out at the ends. I've seen plenty of randonneur bars, but I've never seen any like these before. I look forward to overhauling it this winter and trying it out next spring.You'll have to put some pictures up when you are finished! I've been having camera problems but I intend on posting a pic of the Blue since I just took the maiden ride.

Jason,

I still have my 1983 SS, bought new from a shop on Dairy Ashford. "We" have been in AU for the past few years, and I just stumbled on this forum while trying to get guidance on value for selling it.

Anyway, the range in 1983 was Paramount -> Supersport -> LeTour -> Voyager, and I can answer anything I can measure, weigh, photograph, or quote from the owner manual :-)


The SS had a very slightly longer frame, hence the touring category, and came with the front and rear luggage racks.

Anyway, the range in 1983 was Paramount -> Supersport -> LeTour -> VoyagerWe must have different 1983 catalogs (the Superior was ranked 2nd, the Super Sport was a Competiton bike and the Voyageur was ranked a lot higher) ...

http://home.mchsi.com/~lhufford/83rtl0101.jpg

BTW, inflation calculators show that the $2499.95 Paramount in 1983 would cost $4775.41 in 2005. So the ones you see for $500 are a bargain ... (then again, if you had put that $500 into Microsoft stock in 1983 ...) :p

Bob

I worked at a Schwinn shop 82-86. The Supersport was a very nice racing bike. The Voyageur was a touring bike (they even made a very cool chrome one). The LeTour was a good every day bike.

Basically, components differed. Maybe frame geometry too. But the order (in terms of price) was Supersport, followed by Voyageur, and then the Le Tour.

This is probably the wrong place to put this link, as I opted not to restore it, but with all of the schwinn world voyageur talk, I thought this might be of some interest.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=237685

http://a763.g.akamai.net/7/763/1644/v003/app.infopia.com/img/image/fp/VPID/3251335/img003/img.jpg

My 76 Voyageur II was considered a sport bike even though it has barcon shifters. I think Schwinn must have wanted to make it a sport tourer or something like that. It has braze ons at the fork and rear dropouts but no water bottle bosses! People were alot tougher back then. :)

My 76 Voyageur II was considered a sport bike even though it has barcon shifters. I think Schwinn must have wanted to make it a sport tourer or something like that. It has braze ons at the fork and rear dropouts but no water bottle bosses! People were alot tougher back then. :)

And alot thirstier!:p

'81 Voyager 11.8 didn't have bottle cage bosses either! Wish I could find a more elegant solution than the thin band clamps that come with some of the cages the LBS sells.

PS Nice Le Tour Matt. Buying or selling?

'81 Voyager 11.8 didn't have bottle cage bosses either! Wish I could find a more elegant solution than the thin band clamps that come with some of the cages the LBS sells.

PS Nice Le Tour Matt. Buying or selling?

I don't have the skills to install water bottle bosses so I took Fender 1's advice and bought these.

Ciussi Elite VIP Universal Cage Mount WC9115

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/images/ciussi-clamps.jpg

I know this is heresy, but my solution to a lack of bottle cage braze-ons is the Profile Design Aqua Rack (http://www.profile-design.com/2006_product_pages/hydration/aquarack.html). It's a double cage that clamps onto the seat post that my triathlete brother-in-law turned me on to.

While it isn't exactly in keeping with the vintage look of my '72 Paramount, it is imminently practical.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/CIMG2848sm.jpg

I know this is heresy, but my solution to a lack of bottle cage braze-ons is the Profile Design Aqua Rack (http://www.profile-design.com/2006_product_pages/hydration/aquarack.html). It's a double cage that clamps onto the seat post that my triathlete brother-in-law turned me on to.

While it isn't exactly in keeping with the vintage look of my '72 Paramount, it is imminently practical.
In an effort to preserve the fragile 60 year old decals, I’ve committed the same heresy with my ’47 Continental. I don’t love the looks but find that it works pretty well. As I use a more traditional tool bag with quite a lot of tools (no quick release or hex nuts), there is the added feature that the bag tucks in nicely behind the bottle cage and because of this, rattles a whole lot less.

Still, I keep looking for a vintage style handlebar mounted bottle cage. Anyone know of a source?

Regards,
Alan

That's a great bike Alan! I need to find one of those myself.

That's a great bike Alan! I need to find one of those myself.
Thanks, this is my second season riding it and it has become my most frequent ride. Early Continentals are pretty uncommon and I was fortunate to come across this one. It was missing fenders, wheels, seat, handlebars and brake levers. I’d still like to find the “correct” stainless steel fenders (I’d use the Bluemels on an early ‘60’s Viking) but otherwise, I’m happy with it the way it is.

Regards,
Alan

I just finished resto-modding an early 80's Super Sport, and it is definitly not designed as a tourer. No provisions for rack mounting, either front or rear. I built it up as a retro road bike, using Ultegra components and am currently pretty pleased with it.

I too am interested in anything that that clarifies the statistics from the day on these bikes.

Gotta love the old Schwinns

It really depends on the model year. Things were being switched around quite a bit. There were a couple years that the Super Sport was being marketed as a full-on touring bike with a triple crank and front & rear panniers. Also, the bikes were broken into groups...competition, recreational, touring, family, so a direct comparison of hierarchy between two models was not always really applicable unless you wanted to just base your judgement soley on price.