General Cycling Discussion - annoying bike shop customers

okay... i need to vent...

yesterday, a woman came in to buy new tubes for her 700x35c schrader hybrid tires. another salesman dealt with her and sold her a pair of specialized 700x28/38c schrader tubes. end of sale.

today she comes in, incensed that we "knowingly sold" her the wrong product. she showed me the box for an axiom [norco house brand] 700x30/43c schrader tube and said that she had asked for this exact tube.

me: well... it really is the same tube.

her: no it's not, this is a 700x30/43c tube.

me: true, but the specialized tube will be fine.

her: but the tubes you sold me are for 700x28.

me: no... they're for 700x 28-to-38. they will be fine.

her: it doesn't say that on the box.

me: well... yes, it does... see?

i kept my cool, and politely explained that inner tube rubber will expand to a range of tire sizes and that 35c was well within range. besides, the axiom tubes were probably made in the same plant and just labeled differently, so we didn't mislead her and she didn't really need to return the tubes.

i should say that we're mostly a performance bike shop, though we do have a department for hybrids and comfort bikes, and we do our best to serve both the high end and the low-end of the price spectrum.

my explanations fell on deaf ears, she insisted that we had knowingly sold he a product that she couldn't use and insisted on a refund. i was getting a bit steamed by her strident attitude, but i kept my cool and asked for her credit card to make the refund. she had paid with her atm card, but i explained that we were not set up to refund atm cards. she insisted for cash, so that's what i gave her.

as she's walking toward the exit, she huffs: "just because you're in [an affluent neighbourthood of montreal], you think you can treat your customers like this. i called and they have exactly these inner tubes, [I]and they're cheaper! "

i almost lost my cool there. we charge $5 for the specialized tubes, and the other bike shop sells the axiom tubes for $4.50. we cater to a wide range of cyclists, from pro racers and millionaires to students and bike couriers. the insinuation really cheezed me off.

as she turns to leave, i invited her to never shop at our shop again.

okay... rant off.

I feel you pain brother. I wish we could have a LBS'er subfourm to post rants about these incidents, but then again "they" would see it also ;)

I don't even work in a shop, but some of the stuff I have overheard is unreal.

There's probably a reason why she thinks it's the "wrong" tube. You never know what went on with the sale. Maybe it wasn't explained to her when she came in and bought the tube. As you know, every customer demands a different level of service, whether it's a tube or a $4,000 bike. One thing's universal. Once customers believe that they can't trust you, it's really difficult to regain their trust. Sometimes it may just be a personality clash, sometimes a miscommunication. Nevertheless, it might have been worth your while to invest some time and install the tubes for her in order to try and rebuild the goodwill you had when she walked into your store previously. If it doesn't work, oh well. You're out 15 minutes of your time. If it works, you have a potential bicycle sale ahead of you.

There's probably a reason why she thinks it's the "wrong" tube. You never know what went on with the sale. Maybe it wasn't explained to her when she came in and bought the tube. As you know, every customer demands a different level of service, whether it's a tube or a $4,000 bike. One thing's universal. Once customers believe that they can't trust you, it's really difficult to regain their trust. Sometimes it may just be a personality clash, sometimes a miscommunication. Nevertheless, it might have been worth your while to invest some time and install the tubes for her in order to try and rebuild the goodwill you had when she walked into your store previously. If it doesn't work, oh well. You're out 15 minutes of your time. If it works, you have a potential bicycle sale ahead of you.

On the otherhand, some customers are never worth cultivating. Who cares if she comes in again to get another $5 tube, or a $40 tuneup on a POS wallmart bike? The small amount of money made is offset by the irritating personality involved. Anyone who is so thick as to misunderstand two roman numerals is a good candidate for this category. I'd say the OPs response was okay.

On the otherhand, some customers are never worth cultivating. Who cares if she comes in again to get another $5 tube, or a $40 tuneup on a POS wallmart bike? The small amount of money made is offset by the irritating personality involved. Anyone who is so thick as to misunderstand two roman numerals is a good candidate for this category. I'd say the OPs response was okay.

True, I know quite a few customers like that. Reminds me that I've been in the Food biz for way too long.

Sometimes it's not that people aren't smart enough to understand, sometimes they just don't feel comfortable with you. Stupid things ensue... happens at every level, from $0.25 to $250 million.

I went through the same thing with someone the other day, wanted a tube for the exact size not the 1.95 -2.125 size we had. I also had a woman call and ask about rentals and than ask how long she gets the bike for is she rents it for two hours, I told her 120 minutes. I told a woman the other day I would order her a new shifter and it would be here Tuesday or Wednesday and she goes so I can pick it up Tuesday morning then. Like any business there are going to be pain in the a#$ customers. I always laugh when people come on here and complain about us, you should try being on our side of the counter on some days.

It's like that show Bridezillas.

This is why I go lock myself in a lab every day :).

I also feel your pain. I've been on your end of the conversation more times than I can count.
I've learned to get through each with a smile and even appologize for their misunderstanding. :)

these types of customers are often not worth the trouble. You can go way above and beyond but the only thing they will remember is the way you tried to "mislead" them in the first place, remedying the problem only when your transgression was pointed out to you. I see these people all of the time in my business (I am a bail bondsman) and when I see them in my LBS I often feel embarrassed myself. It boggles my mind that people insist on acting this way and will not listen to reason...either that or think that they know it all.

Keep your chin up Velo.

Brian

it's the same in any retail environment.

i'm in the auto repair business, and we get the same kind of idiots. problem is, most customers are cool - but the a******s tend to be so over the top, they're the ones you remember.

And the worst thing is that you can have 100 terrific customers in any given day and that one idiot will be the one that ruins your entire day

There's probably a reason why she thinks it's the "wrong" tube. You never know what went on with the sale. Maybe it wasn't explained to her when she came in and bought the tube. As you know, every customer demands a different level of service, whether it's a tube or a $4,000 bike. One thing's universal. Once customers believe that they can't trust you, it's really difficult to regain their trust. Sometimes it may just be a personality clash, sometimes a miscommunication. Nevertheless, it might have been worth your while to invest some time and install the tubes for her in order to try and rebuild the goodwill you had when she walked into your store previously. If it doesn't work, oh well. You're out 15 minutes of your time. If it works, you have a potential bicycle sale ahead of you.


In my experience, customers like these are better off lost or chased away. No amount of education will penetrate their ignorant minds. It doesn't matter if she was buying a tube, a TV or some other service. He tried showing her the box and explaining that the tube fit a range of tire sizes. She is a complainer and will continue to cause this business untold amounts of grief and headaches.

People are stupid. You don't want that customer to ever return. God forbid she buys a bike from your shop.

And the worst thing is that you can have 100 terrific customers in any given day and that one idiot will be the one that ruins your entire day

The great thing is that you can have one idiot for a customer and 100 terrific customers who brighten your day, and your cash register of course.

i should say that we're mostly a performance bike shop, though we do have a department for hybrids and comfort bikes, and we do our best to serve both the high end and the low-end of the price spectrum.

Prejudice any.


i almost lost my cool there. we charge $5 for the specialized tubes, and the other bike shop sells the axiom tubes for $4.50. we cater to a wide range of cyclists, from pro racers and millionaires to students and bike couriers. the insinuation really cheezed me off.

Tubes here are $2.60 USD.

Like another said, god forbid she ever buys a bike at your shop. SHe will pay you guys a visit every other day. So by dealing with this little bit of aggravation, you insure that you wont have to deal with her again with a larger item with more to complain.

Tubes here are $2.60 USD.

w00t! Who wants to go to canada and get cheaper tubes with me, ala prescription drugs?

I really believe in giving the best possible customer service--but twice in my life I "fired" a customer. I really tried to go above and beyond for them, but they just kept putting the smackdown on me. Good decisions on my part both times.

Don't let it get to you. There will always be some ****** that knows nothing and thinks they know everything. They are usually offset by the many good people you meet every day. From this thread I would say the ratio is about one in twentyone.


"Tubes here are $2.60 USD." (He, operator, is in Canada)
That is due to the government subsidies.



"i should say that we're mostly a performance bike shop, though we do have a department for hybrids and comfort bikes, and we do our best to serve both the high end and the low-end of the price spectrum.


Prejudice any."


Sounds like a simple statement. If he had said "We prefer not to work on the cheap hybrids", that would would have been prejudicial.

"Tubes here are $2.60 USD." (He, operator, is in Canada)
That is due to the government subsidies.

The canadian government subsidises bike tubes? WTF??

uh. Why?

5 bucks i think is about average for a new tube. Except in Albany NY i went to this shop called Down tube (the only shop for 65 miles of where i was staying) and they charged 6.25 a tube!
As for the prejudice thing, there was none in that statement.

. . . what happened to 'the customer is always right?'
No hassle, explain, offer a refund, smile and say 'thank you!'

In my medical office we call it the 80:20 rule. My nurses and I spend 80% of our time dealing with 20% of our patient population. Ironically enough, it is the 20% with the least serious conditions that demand the most of our time. Those 20% I call the "serotonin depleters." They leave you feeling completely drained. The patients I see who are dying of horrible illnesses are my most grateful, pleasant patients. Perhaps its all in the perspective?
Your client made a federal case over a 50cent problem.....she needs bigger problems.

You should throw a little party to celebrate her leaving your shop!
Some of our serotonin depleters eventually get mad when we won't fufill their every demand (oxycontin...NOT) and they "fire" us. We do a little happy dance. ;-)

People are stupid. You don't want that customer to ever return. God forbid she buys a bike from your shop.

Disagree 100%

And the problem is, every single bicyclist she comes across is going to get the story that you give bad service & told you telling her not to return to your shop. I know if I were in your store at the time and you say that to another customer, I would never shop at your store again either.

The way to handle it is assume she is right, even if she isn't. I would have said, "these will fit on your bike but I apologize for the misunderstanding. What can we do to correct the situation?" Then do what it takes to correct the situation from refunding her money to exchanging the tubes.

And treating a $10 customer the same as a $2,000 customer will be profitable in the long run. That's one of the problems I have with most LBS's is that they seem to cater to customers based on what they spend.

So it's not just her loss of business but the potential loss of other customers that she tells also. Word of mouth is very important.

in a related story...

we have a customer who's an elite level duathlete. we sponsor her -- supply her with team clothes, do free maintenance on her bike and sell her products at the sponsored rate. yesterday, on shop-ride day, she drops off he bike, announces that she wants work done [okay, i can live with that] and then informs me that she's like the bike delivered to her place of work so because she'd really like to get a ride in tomorrow [wednesday].

uhhh... no... i'm not the pizza boy.

the funny thing lis that, if she was in the habit of asking rather than demanding, i probably would have done it.

having said that, i have some favourite customers:

the sponsored duathlete who always brings me coffee and insists that the fit work i've done for him is partly responsible for his great performances...

the girl on the hybrid who always says "you guys are great!" and brings us vegan brownies.

the friendly guy on the chrome fixie who always waves.

the cancer survivor who rides insanely great distances every day and likes to come into the shop to shoot the **** and talk bike stuff.

the sponsored mountain biker who knows every line of every blackadder episode.

the physician who races masters and asks for me personally for road bike advice.

the college student who got into cyclo-cross and likes to talk about latin american history. [my minor field.]

the tv producer who innocently flirts with me and refers to her bike as if it's a living being.

the mother of a three-year-old who just got into road cycling and is having a blast, and just loves bikes.

the self-confessed sleazy lawyer with the off the wall sense of humour who gladly does pro bono for our little community ["helps me sleep at night."]

my buddy who comes in to "treat" himself and has white tape on his cf bike just to irritate me.

the "kona kids" -- 12 and 13 year-olds on scraps and shreds and stuffs who like to hang out and look at the cool bikes and thing the guys at the shop are rock stars.

the psychiatrist who bought a litespeed this year, loves it and likes to remind us of how much he loves it.

the semi-retired college professor who rides a trek hybrid and likes to chat about japanese literature.

the law student with the beautiful and charming wife who doesn't have the time to ride as much as he'd like, but thinks we do amazing work.

the couple who both run local businesses and treat us all as equals.

the kid who just bought a trek 1000, and plans to ride from toronto to montreal.

the father who got his son a specialized hotrock this year and just loves the whole idea of cycling.

... and so many others.

if any of them are reading this, they are greatly appreciated, and they make my day.

the lady with the tubes is the exception rather than the rule. i think she'll be happier at the other shop.

And it is so easy to say what you would have done while you are sitting there in your desk chair....I am guilty of that too. But if I had heard that exchange I would have said..."No worries, theres just NO pleasing some people"...I know I would have done that...I have done it before.

People can be stupid, but you can never tell them that. I think Velo was as reasonable as he needed to be. Best to just give her her refund and let her move on.

Velo,
Love your list of serotonin restoring customers. Very nice.

Thanks for listing the good folks Velo...I am moving up to Canada to marry my girlfriend in the next year oir so and I hope to find a shop like yours...I will be in the Burlington ON area....shame you are so far away...are you still planning on coming to NJ?

Brian

5 bucks i think is about average for a new tube. Except in Albany NY i went to this shop called Down tube (the only shop for 65 miles of where i was staying) and they charged 6.25 a tube!


Dude, you must have been 65 miles to the east of Albany (or which direction I don't know), because there are other shops around here besides DownTube. Klarsfeld, Steiner's, Ski Market, etc., and the BEST one, mine - Plaine & Son in Schenectady (http://www.plaineandson.com/), which is about 12 miles from DownTube.

We sell all of our tubes for $5. :)

Prejudice any.



Tubes here are $2.60 USD.
You sell tubes in US dollars in Richmond Hill? Wow...NAFTA is having even more impact than I feared.

Robert

Ha, I had a similar guy in the other day. Guy comes in, slams tubes on counter and says "you guys gave me the wrong tubes! I explicitly demanded long valvestem tubes!" (Later on, both the salesperson that dealt with him and the owner that witnessed the transaction tell me that he most definitely said nothing about that, but that's another story). Being the helpful guy that I am, I come over to remedy the situation. The customer had been provided with 700x23/25 tubes. As we have long stems in the 700x18/23 and 700x23/25 variety, I asked for clarification of which size tube he had. Dude picks up the box, shoves it into my face, and points to the 700x23/25 marking. I repeat my question, and gently point out that the 23/25 is a range of sizes. Customer is now feeling the rage and again picks up the box, shoves it in my face, and says "This is the size I need!" I got to go through the explanation once more and was able to divine that he had 700x23. This is what I get for trying to save him a few grams and make the tube install minutely easier.
It's pretty much a daily occurance that we have some tube size discussion velocipedo decribed.
As someone else mentioned, I had many dozens of great customers that day and sold several thousands of dollars of bikes, but that's the one that sticks in my mind.

The canadian government subsidises bike tubes? WTF??

uh. Why?
He was making a sarcastic comment about Canada's socialist tendencies. The US Government never subsidizes local industry.

Those 20% I call the "serotonin depleters."

You could call them the "Ecstasies"....little neuropsychopharmacological humour, there.

Robert

Working in the service industry myself with affluent customers, I've come across my fair share of bonehead customers. For folks like that, I find it most effective to refund the money, wish them well, and kick their butts out. Usually, people like that are just angry folks looking for scapegoats, and if you show them nothing but professionalism and a good demeanor no matter how hard they push, it'll steam them more than stickign around and giving them a fight.

Koffee

As someone else mentioned, I had many dozens of great customers that day and sold several thousands of dollars of bikes, but that's the one that sticks in my mind.

Yes...I was the one who said that. And no matter what you wouold have done, there would have been no pleasing this man. These are the types of customers none of us need....but, alas, they ARE out there.

He was making a sarcastic comment about Canada's socialist tendencies. The US Government never subsidizes local industry.
I get it now. Chuck pm'd me with an explanation. I'ma little slow, ok?

You sell tubes in US dollars in Richmond Hill? Wow...NAFTA is having even more impact than I feared.

Robert

That's correct. We do not use canadian dollars in Richmond Hill. We're too good for it.

Kiddings aside. If I said $3.17CDN people would've been like WHAT, WHAT IS THAT IN USD?????????? Since a big chunk of the forums is from the good ole u.s.a.

And note to usa guys - you're getting ripped on tubes. And the government does subsidize our bike tubes, along with prostitutes - you guys are getting ripped on those too.

:)


Sounds like a simple statement. If he had said "We prefer not to work on the cheap hybrids", that would would have been prejudicial.

Actually just the fact that the he needs to mention that is evidence enough. He doesn't have to outright say it. It's implied.


The US Government never subsidizes local industry.

Patently false.

Disagree 100%

So it's not just her loss of business but the potential loss of other customers that she tells also. Word of mouth is very important.

I'd propose that people are generally friends with people similar to themselves in interests and disposition. In which case the OP can certainly do without a pack of whiners coming in to make troublesome, low value transactions.

I helped my parents start a retail business. One of the best things they learnt was how to cultivate friendly (not necessarily high-value) customers and recognise and tactfully discourage the rare troublemaker. It was good for our bottom line, but more importantly it was good for my parents blood pressure and peace of mind.

Interesting thread. So I have a question for shop owners. What can a customer do to help YOU make a sale, particularly on a relatively expensive bike? In other words, how should a customer approach you and discuss things when considering a purchase? What questions should he ask? What should he not ask?

What qualities do good, frugal-but-fair customers have?

Interesting thread. So I have a question for shop owners. What can a customer do to help YOU make a sale, particularly on a relatively expensive bike? In other words, how should a customer approach you and discuss things when considering a purchase? What questions should he ask? What should he not ask?

What qualities do good, frugal-but-fair customers have?
Ask whatever questions you want, but LISTEN to the answers. I have no problem expalining and clarifying things for those who aren't as knowledgeable but I dislike answering the exact same question 50 times.

Interesting thread. So I have a question for shop owners. What can a customer do to help YOU make a sale, particularly on a relatively expensive bike? In other words, how should a customer approach you and discuss things when considering a purchase? What questions should he ask? What should he not ask?

What qualities do good, frugal-but-fair customers have?

That is a great (and never-heard) question. My first piece of advice for customers: tell us what you know, what you want, and don't just say "ok" while not understanding it. If you don't know anything, just admit it and we'll be happy to educate, and that way we know where to start. Also, as a service to the well-meaning but overly technical salespeople, tell them if they are overloading you with too many specs and not enough general info. One example that stands out in my mind: a 30-something woman and her 50-60 year old mother were in the shop yesterday. I normally don't do sales, but they suckered me out with questions. Specifically, they had some questions about the S-Works Epic Disc that was on the wall near us. They asked me how much it cost, and I told them that it was selling for $5000. Knowing what kind of customers they were, I assumed the sticker shock would be enough for them. Then they started asking me about specifics. They pointed to "that" and asked what it was. Eventually they made it clear that they were wondering what the suspension fork was. Then they asked me what made that bike better than $300 bikes. How do I answer this? I could tell them that it has XTR everything but that would mean nothing to them. I didn't want to just say that "everything made the bike bettter," even though it was probably a pretty good answer, because they would just feel like I blew them off. In the end I told them that all the parts were, at the same time, the strongest and the lightest. I think that satisfied them. However, in the end, it was all just a pointless conversation. All that could have been avoided if the two women had come in and said "I'm looking for a bike. I don't know anything about it, but I'd like to try it." Instead they tried to show off whatever knowledge they had--one said something to the effect of "I'm a size 16" frame." Too bad she was more of an 18.

Sorry about the rant. As for good, frugal-but-fair customers, they generally have a couple things going for them. One: they understand that we are trying to do the best job possible for them, but we're not superheros. We can't make $300 bikes suddenly cost $150, and we can't neccesarily get to their repairs instantly. Two: they are polite and appreciative. Polite, appreciative customers are like a cool breeze on a warm summer's day. Like cool breezes, though, they don't seem to show up as often as I'd like.

I thought the great old US of A was the land of the brave and home of the economies to scale that led to the cheapest prices on basically everything and here you are with tubes that go 5 bucks apiece. I get mine at 4 and a half bucks aussie which is about 10 cents US :p no, serously, its about $3.38US at 75 cents US to the Aussie dollar..... they're the garden variety chinese tubes, unless you guys are talking about some up market super-duper tube?

Talking about grumpy customers, I used to moonlight in my uncle's pizza shop back in my younger days. You should have seen the crowd you had to deal with there on a Saturday night after the bars close. :( we had the local cops on speed dial, and gave them free pizza at every opportunity - kept their response time amazingly short ;)

I work for one of those bike shops where the customer is always right, and I can tell you that it just isn't healthy. All the employees start out as nice people...and then they degrade into bipolar people, only that the two poles are "nice to the customers" and "unspeakably mean and violent to your coworkers." I don't know of too many other places that you can go up to a customer and fawn all over them, and then go into the back room and tell somebody else that if he doesn't shut up right this minute he can expect a Y-wrench to get lodged in the base of his skull.

Instead they tried to show off whatever knowledge they had--one said something to the effect of "I'm a size 16" frame." Too bad she was more of an 18. I've had quite a few of those. My favorites are the one's that ask about a "ten speed" and are flabbergasted when they're shown a Ultegra 10. I usually use that as an icebreaker with the know-it-alls. Not to be mean but to get them to listen to someone who wants nothing more than to help them get what they want

Like cool breezes, though, they don't seem to show up as often as I'd like.
Ain't it the truth?

A little off-topic: I pulled up one minute after closing to the LBS last friday, and saw everyone was still inside. I really wanted some new pedals, and knew exactly where they were in the store. But I saw literally everyone had their bikes atop their respective vehicles, ready to roll, and I didn't want to be THAT guy that you read about on bikeforums! Seriously, though, some of my favorite posters like Rev. Chuck and others have backed off a little because of clueless online anti-LBS rants, and I wish it weren't so, because some of us ARE appreciative. Best wishes.

Patently false.
It's called irony.
Robert

All that could have been avoided if the two women had come in and said "I'm looking for a bike. I don't know anything about it, but I'd like to try it." Instead they tried to show off whatever knowledge they had--one said something to the effect of "I'm a size 16" frame." Too bad she was more of an 18.



I get a lot of that. Someone comes in and KNOWS what frame size they are, until they get their asses over said frame size and then have to shut up and listen.

LOL! :rolleyes:

I really believe in giving the best possible customer service--but twice in my life I "fired" a customer. I really tried to go above and beyond for them, but they just kept putting the smackdown on me. Good decisions on my part both times.

We're in the e-commerce business and some people let their "monster" side come out on the internet or on the phone. We have about 65,000 valued customers and we have "fired" about 600 of them - a little less than 1% of them. I've had my life threatened. My wife has been called things I won't repeat on the forum. Customers return things used, damaged and poorly packaged. And, of course, the chargebacks. If a customer has a problem they just need to contact us. Many don't. They just do a chargeback. At least we know they won't do it a second time. Customer service is the most expensive part of our business after paying the UPS bills and easily the most time consuming part. We could reduce our margins by about 7 points if we didn't have to do it. So 99% of the time we provide a good service and value to our customers. I quit worrying about that other 1% a long time ago. I'm glad I was able to turn them over to competitors.