Spire
08-09-02, 06:06 PM
Volvo's new slogan as they lauch the XC90, another overwieght SUV that will never go offroad.
General Cycling Discussion - Building 75 years of life.
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chewa
08-12-02, 01:47 AM
Some of the speedhumps in supermarket carparks can get slippy in the wet. That's what you need an suv for. :D
orguasch
08-12-02, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by Spire
Volvo's new slogan as they lauch the XC90, another overwieght SUV that will never go offroad.
What else can you say but a good gas gazzler
Volvo's new slogan as they lauch the XC90, another overwieght SUV that will never go offroad.
What else can you say but a good gas gazzler
LittleBigMan
08-12-02, 07:29 PM
How about, "Drive = Love?"
Ya, I love that car payment!
Ya, I love that car payment!
willic
08-13-02, 02:43 AM
Are`nt Four wheel drive vehicles (S.U.V.) nothing more than a Fashion accsesory! We all know they will never be used for what they were designed for.
But they are a must have to the "keep up with Jones" mentality.
No social climbing , upwardly mobile, can be seen without their gas guzzling monstrosity standing outside their drives/doorways these days.
I like to stand out from the Sheep imitating crowd ,so i don`t own a one, preffering a cycle instead. :p
But they are a must have to the "keep up with Jones" mentality.
No social climbing , upwardly mobile, can be seen without their gas guzzling monstrosity standing outside their drives/doorways these days.
I like to stand out from the Sheep imitating crowd ,so i don`t own a one, preffering a cycle instead. :p
lotek
08-13-02, 07:37 AM
The situation is REALLY interesting in South Africa.
You basically get 2 types of 4x4 drivers (NEVER S.U.V).
type 1 is typically male, into offroad in a big way, driving
on beach, in the bush and desert, typically drive LandRover
Defenders (series I or III not II it sucked eggs), old toyota
landcruisers.
Type 2 is typically female, need 4x4 to go shopping and to
drive up on the pavement (sidewalk for all north americans)
to get to better parking, and sometimes even put it
in 4 low when its raining. Typically drive LandRover Discovery,
Freelander (good vehicles) New Toyota landcruisers, Rav4's
Mercedes and BMW vehilcles. Generally referred to as
Sandton 4x4 (sandton is a larney shopping mall).
I had a Toyota Landcruiser, used it to transport Scuba
equiptment (for 20 people) into Mozambique, where there
is no difference between off road and on road (except
off road sometimes got you blown up).
SUV's in the USA are generally a waste.
Marty
You basically get 2 types of 4x4 drivers (NEVER S.U.V).
type 1 is typically male, into offroad in a big way, driving
on beach, in the bush and desert, typically drive LandRover
Defenders (series I or III not II it sucked eggs), old toyota
landcruisers.
Type 2 is typically female, need 4x4 to go shopping and to
drive up on the pavement (sidewalk for all north americans)
to get to better parking, and sometimes even put it
in 4 low when its raining. Typically drive LandRover Discovery,
Freelander (good vehicles) New Toyota landcruisers, Rav4's
Mercedes and BMW vehilcles. Generally referred to as
Sandton 4x4 (sandton is a larney shopping mall).
I had a Toyota Landcruiser, used it to transport Scuba
equiptment (for 20 people) into Mozambique, where there
is no difference between off road and on road (except
off road sometimes got you blown up).
SUV's in the USA are generally a waste.
Marty
KleinMp99
08-14-02, 01:49 PM
You cant be serious about people having 4X4's as a fashion accessory.......And saying that their a waste?? O come on....where the hell do you people live?? We use 4 wheel drive every day up here in the winter.....sometimes you cant drive without it. And when driving to the DH trails and stuff.....going hunting....you need 4 wheel drive!!!!! You both make me laugh...bahhahahah:o
Spire
08-14-02, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by KleinMp99
You cant be serious about people having 4X4's as a fashion accessory.......And saying that their a waste?? O come on....where the hell do you people live?? We use 4 wheel drive every day up here in the winter.....sometimes you cant drive without it. And when driving to the DH trails and stuff.....going hunting....you need 4 wheel drive!!!!! You both make me laugh...bahhahahah:o
I find this to be completely untrue. I live in Montreal where the winter is significantly worse than michigan. I can safely say that the number of times that our caravan has gotten stuck in snow or ice is 0. We have a Hyundai which is low to the ground and does get stuck. 4 wheel drive is NOT a necessity for winter driving. It does improve traction, but only in acceleration. An ESP will work just as well on a 4x4 and a 2x4. SUVs used in cities are in general a waste. Period. Snow is cleared 90% of the time and when it is not most cars will make it through easily. There are those that use the SUVs capabilities, but that is something to the order of 1% of city SUVs.
You cant be serious about people having 4X4's as a fashion accessory.......And saying that their a waste?? O come on....where the hell do you people live?? We use 4 wheel drive every day up here in the winter.....sometimes you cant drive without it. And when driving to the DH trails and stuff.....going hunting....you need 4 wheel drive!!!!! You both make me laugh...bahhahahah:o
I find this to be completely untrue. I live in Montreal where the winter is significantly worse than michigan. I can safely say that the number of times that our caravan has gotten stuck in snow or ice is 0. We have a Hyundai which is low to the ground and does get stuck. 4 wheel drive is NOT a necessity for winter driving. It does improve traction, but only in acceleration. An ESP will work just as well on a 4x4 and a 2x4. SUVs used in cities are in general a waste. Period. Snow is cleared 90% of the time and when it is not most cars will make it through easily. There are those that use the SUVs capabilities, but that is something to the order of 1% of city SUVs.
KleinMp99
08-14-02, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Spire
I find this to be completely untrue. I live in Montreal where the winter is significantly worse than michigan.
Ahh yes, you are correct. But Michigan is a whole state, unlike montreal which is a city...right? I could live down south....where they dont get hardly any snow, or I could live up north....where we get a ton more than you do. Well I happen to live up north where this year we got just over 300 inches of snow.....I read up a little and it says we get 170 annually, and you get 92 annually. If i'm not mistaken.....170 is a bigger number than 92.
Originally posted by Spire
I can safely say that the number of times that our caravan has gotten stuck in snow or ice is 0. We have a Hyundai which is low to the ground and does get stuck. 4 wheel drive is NOT a necessity for winter driving. It does improve traction, but only in acceleration. An ESP will work just as well on a 4x4 and a 2x4. SUVs used in cities are in general a waste. Period. Snow is cleared 90% of the time and when it is not most cars will make it through easily. There are those that use the SUVs capabilities, but that is something to the order of 1% of city SUVs.
I bet if you talked to people who frequently drive in the winter, they would say that 4 wheel drive would be a good thing to have....maybe not a need but a good thing to have. My mom drives a front wheel drive can and dosent have any problems, my dad drives a 4 wheel drive truck and uses it often in the winter. I do hate people who drive SUV's just to show them off or to be cool and dont ever use them for what their meant for, and yes, it is a waste.
I find this to be completely untrue. I live in Montreal where the winter is significantly worse than michigan.
Ahh yes, you are correct. But Michigan is a whole state, unlike montreal which is a city...right? I could live down south....where they dont get hardly any snow, or I could live up north....where we get a ton more than you do. Well I happen to live up north where this year we got just over 300 inches of snow.....I read up a little and it says we get 170 annually, and you get 92 annually. If i'm not mistaken.....170 is a bigger number than 92.
Originally posted by Spire
I can safely say that the number of times that our caravan has gotten stuck in snow or ice is 0. We have a Hyundai which is low to the ground and does get stuck. 4 wheel drive is NOT a necessity for winter driving. It does improve traction, but only in acceleration. An ESP will work just as well on a 4x4 and a 2x4. SUVs used in cities are in general a waste. Period. Snow is cleared 90% of the time and when it is not most cars will make it through easily. There are those that use the SUVs capabilities, but that is something to the order of 1% of city SUVs.
I bet if you talked to people who frequently drive in the winter, they would say that 4 wheel drive would be a good thing to have....maybe not a need but a good thing to have. My mom drives a front wheel drive can and dosent have any problems, my dad drives a 4 wheel drive truck and uses it often in the winter. I do hate people who drive SUV's just to show them off or to be cool and dont ever use them for what their meant for, and yes, it is a waste.
lotek
08-14-02, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by KleinMp99
You cant be serious about people having 4X4's as a fashion accessory.......And saying that their a waste?? O come on....where the hell do you people live?? We use 4 wheel drive every day up here in the winter.....sometimes you cant drive without it. And when driving to the DH trails and stuff.....going hunting....you need 4 wheel drive!!!!! You both make me laugh...bahhahahah:o
Klein,
Reread my post. I said I lived in SOUTH AFRICA.
I used the vehicle in MOZAMBIQUE where a road is
a track in the sand (if your lucky). You tend to stay
to them because the rest of the friggin country is
knee deep in land mines left over from 16 years of
civil war.
well your little patch of michigan may have a high percent
of 4x4 users who need em.
I said rather clearly there were 2 distinct types of users
and yes most were a waste of time.
Do you really think that the majority of people REALLY need
4x4, in FLORIDA? (lots of snow there huh?) ok, some may actually drive on a beach
(where its not illegal and I could drive a ford
falcon with bald tires without getting stuck). How many Lincoln
Navigators, or Caddilac esplinanteas or whatever the hell they
are called are going off road? ever see a BMW or LEXUS 4x4
off road? Didn't think so.
You cant be serious about people having 4X4's as a fashion accessory.......And saying that their a waste?? O come on....where the hell do you people live?? We use 4 wheel drive every day up here in the winter.....sometimes you cant drive without it. And when driving to the DH trails and stuff.....going hunting....you need 4 wheel drive!!!!! You both make me laugh...bahhahahah:o
Klein,
Reread my post. I said I lived in SOUTH AFRICA.
I used the vehicle in MOZAMBIQUE where a road is
a track in the sand (if your lucky). You tend to stay
to them because the rest of the friggin country is
knee deep in land mines left over from 16 years of
civil war.
well your little patch of michigan may have a high percent
of 4x4 users who need em.
I said rather clearly there were 2 distinct types of users
and yes most were a waste of time.
Do you really think that the majority of people REALLY need
4x4, in FLORIDA? (lots of snow there huh?) ok, some may actually drive on a beach
(where its not illegal and I could drive a ford
falcon with bald tires without getting stuck). How many Lincoln
Navigators, or Caddilac esplinanteas or whatever the hell they
are called are going off road? ever see a BMW or LEXUS 4x4
off road? Didn't think so.
KleinMp99
08-14-02, 06:37 PM
Ok I guess I was only thinking about people who mountain bike, and use 4 wheel drive when driving to trails and such.....I wasnt thinking about all the people down south who would never need an SUV. And ok......the whole snow thing is between me and spire....lay the **** off PAL. And yea, SUV's are generally a waste in the USA, I dont know why the f*** that offended me so much.....sorry.......:o
lotek
08-14-02, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by KleinMp99
the whole snow thing is between me and spire....lay the **** off PAL. And yea, SUV's are generally a waste in the USA, I dont know why the f*** that offended me so much.....sorry.......:o
Actually what you said was you guys make me laugh, not
Spire, but not a problem.
Sometimes I get cranky, I'm old enough that I don't need
to apologize for that. I also don't know why I reacted so
violently about your post, maybe because I have a hard
time tolerating narrow mindedness (ok, we won't go there
and talk about my narrow mindedness in this issue!).
anyhow sorry for the flame.
Pax
Marty
Klein, On further thought I really didn't need to
flame you like I did, I've removed the more vitriolic
parts of my previous post.
Marty
the whole snow thing is between me and spire....lay the **** off PAL. And yea, SUV's are generally a waste in the USA, I dont know why the f*** that offended me so much.....sorry.......:o
Actually what you said was you guys make me laugh, not
Spire, but not a problem.
Sometimes I get cranky, I'm old enough that I don't need
to apologize for that. I also don't know why I reacted so
violently about your post, maybe because I have a hard
time tolerating narrow mindedness (ok, we won't go there
and talk about my narrow mindedness in this issue!).
anyhow sorry for the flame.
Pax
Marty
Klein, On further thought I really didn't need to
flame you like I did, I've removed the more vitriolic
parts of my previous post.
Marty
Spire
08-15-02, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by KleinMp99
Ahh yes, you are correct. But Michigan is a whole state, unlike montreal which is a city...right? I could live down south....where they dont get hardly any snow, or I could live up north....where we get a ton more than you do. Well I happen to live up north where this year we got just over 300 inches of snow.....I read up a little and it says we get 170 annually, and you get 92 annually. If i'm not mistaken.....170 is a bigger number than 92.
This is a fair argument, however, we do trek out of the city to a cottage about 80km from the city. Like I said previously, the minivan (some of which now come in 4x4) has never gotten stuck and it is two wheel drive.
I bet if you talked to people who frequently drive in the winter, they would say that 4 wheel drive would be a good thing to have....maybe not a need but a good thing to have. My mom drives a front wheel drive can and dosent have any problems, my dad drives a 4 wheel drive truck and uses it often in the winter. I do hate people who drive SUV's just to show them off or to be cool and dont ever use them for what their meant for, and yes, it is a waste.
I am not disputing that 4 wheel drive is a good thing to have in the winter, it can help get out of some situations. But having a greater ground clearance will accomplish the same thing almost all the time. (just most 4x4 cars/trucks have a high ground clearance). Also these days, more and more cars have a 4 wheel drive system. My argument is mainly against SUVs per say. Is 4 wheel drive useful in snow? Definitly Yes! Does it have to be on a 2.5 ton truck? Absolutely not. I would be willing to bet that a 330ix or a Subaru Legacy (not outback) will perform just as well as virtually all the SUVs in snow. Add in a little ground clearance (take a Subaru Outback or Volvo V70XC) and I would be willing to bet that they perform better due to their lower wieght and lower center of gravity.
Ahh yes, you are correct. But Michigan is a whole state, unlike montreal which is a city...right? I could live down south....where they dont get hardly any snow, or I could live up north....where we get a ton more than you do. Well I happen to live up north where this year we got just over 300 inches of snow.....I read up a little and it says we get 170 annually, and you get 92 annually. If i'm not mistaken.....170 is a bigger number than 92.
This is a fair argument, however, we do trek out of the city to a cottage about 80km from the city. Like I said previously, the minivan (some of which now come in 4x4) has never gotten stuck and it is two wheel drive.
I bet if you talked to people who frequently drive in the winter, they would say that 4 wheel drive would be a good thing to have....maybe not a need but a good thing to have. My mom drives a front wheel drive can and dosent have any problems, my dad drives a 4 wheel drive truck and uses it often in the winter. I do hate people who drive SUV's just to show them off or to be cool and dont ever use them for what their meant for, and yes, it is a waste.
I am not disputing that 4 wheel drive is a good thing to have in the winter, it can help get out of some situations. But having a greater ground clearance will accomplish the same thing almost all the time. (just most 4x4 cars/trucks have a high ground clearance). Also these days, more and more cars have a 4 wheel drive system. My argument is mainly against SUVs per say. Is 4 wheel drive useful in snow? Definitly Yes! Does it have to be on a 2.5 ton truck? Absolutely not. I would be willing to bet that a 330ix or a Subaru Legacy (not outback) will perform just as well as virtually all the SUVs in snow. Add in a little ground clearance (take a Subaru Outback or Volvo V70XC) and I would be willing to bet that they perform better due to their lower wieght and lower center of gravity.