Folding Bikes - First longish ride on SpeedPro: ride report

The ride from where I live near the George Washington Bridge (Manhattan side) to Nyack, NY is almost exactly 40 miles from my door, to a certain parking lot at which I turn around and back. I was going to do the ride on my folder with my better half last week (on her hybrid) to show her the route but as I grabbed the bike to check the tire pressure, I discovered a(nother) broken spoke (that's another story for another time). So I took the road bike.

This weekend the opportunity arose to do the ride on my own, so I really had a chance to put the folder through some hard riding. I got out a little later in the morning than I had hoped, but all was looking good... until 1km from home, on the bridge, I found that I had a flat! Fortunately, it was the front tire, so it was not too much work to change out the tube. Upon inspection, it appears that the tube that was in there was defective, because there was what I can only describe as a "bubble" which appeared to be the cause of the flat (i.e. not your usual pinch or puncture). I made the call to go home to pump it up to full pressure with my Joe Blow floor pump and grab another tube because the original one looked pretty unpatchable.

The ride itself was pretty good. I don't deal too well with hot weather so I was pretty wasted when I got home, seeing as the heat index was creeping over 100 at the end of the ride (I've ridden much longer rides on my road bike). I ran out of Accelerade (in Camelbak) with about 6-7 miles to go, so a stop at a gas station vending machine was necessary. Anyhow, the time on the road was a little longer than on the road bike, but that was mostly because the heat really got to me at the end. My time to Nyack was only a few minutes off my best time on the road bike, in fact (I'd say at most 7-8 minutes -- my computer reading was skewed from the flat-go-home-go-out routine).

There are a few long (for here), fast downhills on the way out. The tweaking of the saddle and handlebar positions that I had done yesterday in preparation for the ride really showed. I hit 60+km/h on one of the downhill stretches, which is not that far off of my fastest speed in the same spot on the road bike (never hit 70km/h there, so do the math). I have to admit that I felt a bit insecure flying downhill at those speeds on the folder even though I know the road very well. The bike is simply twitchier than on my trusty Lemond (to be expected).

What I enjoyed the most about the ride, was the change in "looks" I got from other riders, sepcifically Arrogant Roadies(TM) as I got further away from NYC. At first I was simply ignored as another weekend warrior on a hybrid / MTB / beater, rudely getting passed on the right, etc. But a funny thing happened as the miles ticked-up: I started to get smiles, people pointing, and on the way back, as I even passed some slower roadies (booyah!) I even got sincere questions about the quality of the ride on my Dahon.

The plan is to do a few more, longer rides on the SpeedPro with the goal of riding the NYC Century on 9/11 (oy!) with my better half. It will be her first century, though not mine. My only concerns (her training is going well, no worries there) is that the SDG saddle on the Dahon gets very uncomfortable after a while where the stitching rubs me the wrong way, and that my hands were very frequently getting numb. I expected both as I've experienced them to a lesser degree on my commuting rides (~8.5 miles each way). However, I don't know what to do about either. Suggestions?

. . . My only concerns (her training is going well, no worries there) is that the SDG saddle on the Dahon gets very uncomfortable after a while where the stitching rubs me the wrong way, and that my hands were very frequently getting numb. I expected both as I've experienced them to a lesser degree on my commuting rides (~8.5 miles each way). However, I don't know what to do about either. Suggestions?
Hi Oboeguy,

As the owner of a Jetstream, I am also a victim of the SDG saddle. I called Dahon California and asked them if there was an alternative seatpost available. They said they could send me a used (i.e. slightly blemished) post. Cost: $20. Before I resorted to a used post, I tried to get my hands on one of the CarbonLite seatposts like the one that came with my wife's '03 Helios. I have swapped it out for a test fit and it works fine. They are no longer being manufactured, and so far I have had no luck finding a vendor who has one in stock. No big deal though. I know from experience that putting the CarbonLite seatpost up and down will quickly scratch the clearcoat on the carbon fiber, so even if I had a new one, it wouldn't be unblemished for long. The blemished aluminum seatpost from Dahon will be fine. Once I have that seatpost, I can fit any saddle I want (I'm going to give the Brooks a try. People either love them or hate them. I'll fall into one category or the other soon.)

Regarding the numbing of the hands, I can suggest a few things.

First, get your front suspension hub dialed in. Before you make any adjustments, download the pdf manual for the Pantour hub from the Dahon support site. Look at the pictures and find out how to determine the left side of the wheel from the right side. According to Dahon, the trajectory screws should be in the number one (forward) holes. This is poppycock, as it severly limits the effectiveness of the suspension. I'm not sure the dropout angle of your bike's fork is the same as mine, so rather than tell you what hole to put the screws in, try them in all the holes until the hub moves up and back, a little more vertical than a 45º angle, when you put weight on the handlebar and flex the suspension. Mine seems to run best in the center holes, but I'm still experimenting. When you replace the wheel in the fork, be sure that it is oriented properly left/right-wise. The trajectory screws should be seated against the rear of the dropout. Also remember to check your brake pad adjustment. You want the pads to be as close to the edge of the rim as possible with the front wheel dangling in the air. After you make the adjustment, and during your first ride, make sure the brakes are hitting only the correct portion of the rim, and neither the tire nor the painted portion of the rim. Especially check while braking on a fast-ish downhill, as that is when the pads are most likely to encroach into the painted portion of the rim.

If you weigh anywhere close to 200 lbs., call Pantour and have them send you the next heavier elastomer for the hub. They'll send you instructions for installing it too. It's not brain surgery. Just having your hub adjusted to give you its full benefit will make a big difference as far as hand fatigue. Not only that, you'll love how much better your bike rides.

Next, you could replace your grips with Ergon grips. I haven't gotten a pair, but they're on the list. I've heard that they are very comfortable.
http://www.kinetics.org.uk/assets/images/autogen/a_mp_1.gif

Also, a carbon fiber bar will absorb more shock than the aluminum one your Speed Pro came with. If you think you might ever want a little more rise, you can get a carbon riser bar and take care of two problems at once.

Finally, and perhaps most obvious, a good pair of gloves.

Hope that helps. I look forward to hearing how you and your Speed Pro fare in your upcoming century ride. Keep us posted. :)

— Spalding

Thanks, Cap! I've actually had to lower the handlebars to get my position, so I'm not worried about more rise. :)

I'll take a look at those grips. They look nice!

I saw your post over on the Dahon forums about the Pantour hub. When I have some time I will study the thing some more with the manual in hand. IIRC, when I had to change the tire, the screw was not in the first position, but I didn't take a very good look so I don't know exactly where it is right now. I wonder if my wheel is on backwards? I will definitely call for the new elastomer in any case, as I do weigh close to 200lbs.

Regarding the saddle... do you think any further adjustments in position will help? I'm hesitant to switch-out the whole seatpost+saddle combo unless ultimately necessary.

Thanks for the thoughtful post!

I will definitely call for the new elastomer in any case, as I do weigh close to 200lbs. . . .Regarding the saddle... do you think any further adjustments in position will help?
Yeah, I was a little excited and pissed off when I posted on the Dahon forum about the Pantour hub. As I re-read it there is a chicken-little tone that is somewhat embarassing to me now. I've had a conversation or two with the folks at Pantour and that calmed me down a bit. Something tells me Pantour is a really small company. When I called, I'm pretty sure the guy I eventually talked to was an engineer. He was very hungry for feedback, and asked me to do a little experimenting and then report back. He wants my feedback before a meeting he has in September with some honchos at Dahon. It's fun to be able to participate in that way.

Regarding the elastomer, it's easy to tell if you need the stiffer one. When you are sitting stationary on the bike in your normal riding position, if the suspension is bottomed out, i.e. the brake pads are at the innermost edge of the braking surface, and there's no suspension travel left, you need it. Probably the fact that you have a more horizontal riding position biases your weight a little more forward onto the hub as well.

As far as the saddle is concerned, I was reticent to change as well. Even with all the negative stuff that's been said about the SDG saddle/seatpost, I must admit that it is really light, and the graduated markings on the seatpost are very convenient when I'm unfolding the bike. But there are two reasons why it is the wrong saddle for me. First, the stitching on the top is in exactly the wrong place. My feeling is that any stitching on top of a bicycle saddle is a bad idea, but on the SDG saddle it is particularly onerous. The second reason is that the saddle is just too narrow. A saddle that narrow belongs on a bike with drop bars. Sheldon Brown has some interesting things to say about saddles here (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html). According to his advice and that of others, I measured my sit-bones, and they are too wide for the 130mm width of the SDG saddle. I don't know if my ischial tuberosities are more widely spaced than average, but they miss that saddle almost entirely. The resulting numbness is, well, you know. So in my case, no amount of adjustment will cure the problem. But the same might not be true for you, and playing with the saddle position is certainly worth a try. It's free, so why not?

Happy cycling, and be safe.

— Spalding

I ordered a new elastomer from Pantour today. I also looked into those snazzy looking Ergon grips, but it looks like they may not be compatible with Gripshifts out of the box and I have no desire to get to work with a hack saw (MTBR review (http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Grip/product_125005.shtml) where someone mentions this). Any alternatives? Also, I happen to be rather fond of the Cane Creek barends on the SpeedPro; do the Ergons allow bar ends?

There is a version of the Ergon grip out now which has a bar end (MR1):


http://www.todson.com/users/miva/graphics/00000001/MenRaceLarge.jpg

This is the model I ordered. I just installed them today, and haven't ridden with them yet. The bar ends do seem rather anemic when compared to the Cane Creeks, and only a test ride will confirm the success or failure of them. I don't see why the version without bar ends (MP1) couldn't be used with the Cane Creek ends. It just might look a little funky. I have a feeling that I'm going to like the paddle grip so much though that I won't care how funky it might look.

Supposedly in a few weeks Ergo is coming out with another version that has larger bar ends (MR2). You can see it here. (http://www.ergon-bike.com/ergon_mr2.php?la=en) As far as the "hacksaw" remark, that was a little bit of press hyperbole I think. A single-edge razor blade or an Exacto would do the job, and add only about 3 minutes to the installation time. It's only rubber, after all.

Now, about the elastomer. First, I salute you as another intrepid cyclist who is willing to do some experimental wrenching.

To open the hub: after you have the wheel removed from the bike, remove the skewer, and lay the wheel down so that the side with two screws in the hub faces up (if your hub is like mine, it will be the right side.) You do not need to remove the trajectory screws. Loosen the clamping screw. It's the one that is perpendicular to the axis of the hub. Get a couple of cheap plastic putty knives (or use steel ones if you already own them, just cover the blades with masking tape to protect the finish of the hub) and slowly wedge them under the end cap of the hub. Mine was fairly difficult to remove. I had to wiggle it off bit by bit. Try to keep even pressure on both sides. As it comes off, note the washers and where they go.

Once you have popped the end cap off, you will see the two elastomers, the big one for damping, the small one for rebound. You will be replacing the big one. After you have it out and compare it to the new elastomer, you will notice that the new one isn't just harder. It's also much bigger. I was asking myself how the #&*% am I going to get that in there! Here's how I ultimately did it: I couldn't do it with the other parts in there, so I removed the other elastomer and the other side of the hub (with the tubes attached). With the hub empty, I squeezed that big new elastomer in. Then I replaced the left side of the hub (with the tubes) At this point it looks as if there is no way to get the smaller elastomer back in. With the aid of a helper, I put a screwdriver against the center tube and pried up against the outer tube, compressing the big elastomer and making room above the center tube for the small elastomer. I know this doesn't make any sense right now, but it should be clearer when you have the hub apart in front of you.

Before you close the hub back up, make sure the elastomers are centered left-to-right in the hub. Before tightening the clamping bolt, I put the skewer back on, put the wheel in the fork, and then used the skewer as a vice to clamp the hub together tightly before I tightened up the clamp bolt.

Check the position of your trajectory screws and brake pads, and voilà. The effort was well worth it for me, because with the old elastomer was just too soft to be useable.

I'm not finished though. I'm seeking the perfect ride. Pantour only offers two hardnesses of elastomer. Call me Goldilocks, but in my opinion, the original one was too soft, the new one is too hard, and I want one that is just right. It is obvious to me that the elasotmers are just bandsawed from 3/4 x 3/4" polyurethane bar stock. So, experiment Nº 1: try an elastomer or two with an intermediate hardness. Why not? I can bandsaw a urethane block as well as the next guy. Experiment Nº 2: build up a custom block from two pieces of urethane of different hardnesses. Dovetail them so that they don't slide around relative to one another:


http://www.nikonians-images.com/galleries/data/500/30566Elastomer.jpg

The harder elastomer will absorb the big jolts, the softer one will soak up the high frequency stuff. At least that's my theory.

Good luck changing out the elastomer and best wishes for a successful ride on 9/11!

— Spalding

Now, about the elastomer. First, I salute you as another intrepid cyclist who is willing to do some experimental wrenching.

To open the hub: after you have the wheel removed from the bike, remove the skewer, and lay the wheel down so that the side with two screws in the hub faces up (if your hub is like mine, it will be the right side.) You do not need to remove the trajectory screws. Loosen the clamping screw. It's the one that is perpendicular to the axis of the hub. Get a couple of cheap plastic putty knives (or use steel ones if you already own them, just cover the blades with masking tape to protect the finish of the hub) and slowly wedge them under the end cap of the hub. Mine was fairly difficult to remove. I had to wiggle it off bit by bit. Try to keep even pressure on both sides. As it comes off, note the washers and where they go.

Once you have popped the end cap off, you will see the two elastomers, the big one for damping, the small one for rebound. You will be replacing the big one. After you have it out and compare it to the new elastomer, you will notice that the new one isn't just harder. It's also much bigger. I was asking myself how the #&*% am I going to get that in there! Here's how I ultimately did it: I couldn't do it with the other parts in there, so I removed the other elastomer and the other side of the hub (with the tubes attached). With the hub empty, I squeezed that big new elastomer in. Then I replaced the left side of the hub (with the tubes) At this point it looks as if there is no way to get the smaller elastomer back in. With the aid of a helper, I put a screwdriver against the center tube and pried up against the outer tube, compressing the big elastomer and making room above the center tube for the small elastomer. I know this doesn't make any sense right now, but it should be clearer when you have the hub apart in front of you.

Before you close the hub back up, make sure the elastomers are centered left-to-right in the hub. Before tightening the clamping bolt, I put the skewer back on, put the wheel in the fork, and then used the skewer as a vice to clamp the hub together tightly before I tightened up the clamp bolt.

Check the position of your trajectory screws and brake pads, and voilà. The effort was well worth it for me, because with the old elastomer was just too soft to be useable.


— Spalding

To briefly add to Spalding's excellent description, once the end cap is removed, ideally, you do completely remove the otherside from the center tube of the hub. You can fit the smaller 'rebound' elastomer into a cavity first and then just start to push the hub end (with axle rod and pivot rod) into the hub. Then you can wedge in the larger elastomer making sure to keep the axle rod between the elastomers and push together. If you loose track of the 4 washers, 2 go on either side of the 'pivot rod'. Attached is a picture that I received today from Pantour showing the proper relationship of the hub in a fork. Note the right side of the hub has the slit and set screw. Should work out fine for you!

Bruce

So for now I've given-up on different grips. I did pick-up a pair of the snazzy Specialized gloves with padding in all the right places. My perception on the commute this morning was that there was definite improvement. It was still somewhat uncomfortable but I seemed to recover much more quickly when I'd take my palms off the bars (I can't exactly ride no handed on this bike but I can use fingertips :)).

Right now, though, the biggest concern for the NYC Century is getting my rear wheel spoke situation fixed (see the Dahon forums for the ongoing saga). Right now it looks like I won't be able to ride the folder at all before long. You know it's bad when the LBS and the manufacturer have started to accuse each other. :(

I'll be doing about 1/3 of the NYC Century on Sun. 9/11. I'll keep a lookout for your bike at the finish line since it's a staggered start. Can't wait for the post-ride massages!

This is assuming I can get the bike fit for the Century! Anyhow, I'll have a Livestrong jersey on too. How many guys in a Livestrong jersey on a SpeedPro do you expect will ride? :D Anyhow, FYI, I'll be pulling in pretty late to the finish, I expect, as I'm pacing my wife who is new to centuries.

I haven't planned my attire yet for the ride other than mtb shorts and a camelback and I'll be riding my 15 year old Haro mtb. In other words, I'll be invisible, but if I see your orange fold-up, I'll be sure to say Hi! I'm also doing the MS ride in Oct. cuz that one's fun and hopefully it'll be nice and cool.

Ah forgot to mention that my Livestrong jersey will be obscured in the back by either my regular 2l Camelbak or my gigantor (relatively) Wingnut backpack / hydration pack.

This is in response to the initial flats complaint--has this happened often? I've been plagued by front flats repeatedly, always replace the tube and check for obstructions, but still have to keep changing tubes. I'm wondering if dahons have a reputation for this. (I have a 2005 Speed 8). No broken spokes yet, though.

Nope. Flats, fortunately, have not been a problem. I'm amazed, in fact, at the fact that I haven't had one in ages, not since the early days. Two early flats and zero in the 1000+km since.

This is in response to the initial flats complaint--has this happened often? I've been plagued by front flats repeatedly, always replace the tube and check for obstructions, but still have to keep changing tubes. I'm wondering if dahons have a reputation for this. (I have a 2005 Speed 8). No broken spokes yet, though.
Hmm. The Schwalbe Stelvios have a reputation for pinch flats when they're underinflated, but I haven't heard anything about the Big Apples. Is there any consistency to the location of the puncture? Near the bead? At a particular spoke? I know some people have had luck changing to a beefier rim strip.

— Spalding

Yeah I should add that I have a very good floor pump with a (supposedly) accurate gauge, so I keep my tires well-filled. I've dropped the pressure to around 100psi, though, to attempt to mitigate my spoke problem.

Dahon has been curiously silent since my last attempt at contact. Anybody have their phone number?

Dahon has been curiously silent since my last attempt at contact. Anybody have their phone number?

Dahon California, Inc.
833 Meridian Street
Duarte, California 91010
Tel: (626) 305-5264

Hmm. The Schwalbe Stelvios have a reputation for pinch flats when they're underinflated, but I haven't heard anything about the Big Apples. Is there any consistency to the location of the puncture? Near the bead? At a particular spoke? I know some people have had luck changing to a beefier rim strip.

— Spalding

No real consistency--they were all big blowouts (3) in the last few days. I'm wondering if it's just the cheap Nashbar tubes.

The Captain to the rescue!!! I should have asked in the first place -- I lost two days by waiting. Here's the deal -- they are sending a brand-spanking new wheel. With expedited shipping (on my dime, what can you do) I should be able to get my bike ready in time for the Century. I wish I knew how to swap out a cassette because then I could have them ship it to me and do it myself (I have a chain whip, what else is needed?) but for now I'm OK with the shop doing it. Please let this be the end of my problems!

Oooh, and the tech told me it's fine to ride with my busted spokes for now. Labor Day hill riding in the Finger Lakes, here I come!!! (with road bike for backup)

No real consistency--they were all big blowouts (3) in the last few days. I'm wondering if it's just the cheap Nashbar tubes.

Nashbar makes tubes for your bike?? I got tubes from Thor aka Brakemeister (http://www.thorusa.com)

The Captain to the rescue!!! I should have asked in the first place -- I lost two days by waiting. Here's the deal -- they are sending a brand-spanking new wheel . . . I wish I knew how to swap out a cassette because then I could have them ship it to me and do it myself (I have a chain whip, what else is needed?) but for now I'm OK with the shop doing it. Please let this be the end of my problems!
Maybe while the wheel is at the LBS for the freewheel, you should have them true it up and check spoke tension as well. ;)

Hahaha I was thinking the same thing, indeed. If they only did wrenching on the same floor as the main shop I'd ask to watch. :D Alas! wrenching is done belowdecks.

That reminds me of something fairly unrelated, though not entirely. At the Laubin oboe "factory" (it's really a shop) in Peekskill, if you want to watch repairs being made you are charged for it, no joke. I totally understand, being someone who learns a lot simply from studying others.

Nashbar makes tubes for your bike?? I got tubes from Thor aka Brakemeister (http://www.thorusa.com)

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=&sku=4852&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

They're the same price as the schwalbe, but I think I bought them on supersale with coupon. Serves me right! They're for 20x1.5-2.0, so they're too big for the Stelvios anyway. I'll order from Thor when the last of these babies explodes, which shouldn't be too far off...

Go figure. I have one of those over-sized ones on my back wheel because I hadn't received Thor's shipment, coudln't patch my tube, and that's all the LBS had. Zero flats on that tube so far, if you can believe it.