Classic & Vintage - Rebuilding/Robbing a broken Sekine

I've recently had two old road bikes fall into my lap. I'm hoping to build a useable road bike out of the two. Coming into this knowing pretty much nothing about building/maintaing bikes, I think I've come as far as I can reading, without asking questions.

Bike number 1 is a Sekine (deduced from the CS (GS?) headbadge), SN X4 09653. It came out of the trashheap with two major problems. One, the stem? (connecting the fork assembly to the handlebars) was snapped. Two, it had been repainted a few times. Badly. My suspicion is that the bike has "barely decent" parts, but maybe I'm wrong on that. The components:

Rear Derailleur: Shimano Crane GS
Front Derailleur: Shimano Titlist
Brakes: Shimano Tourney
Shifters: Suntour, mounted on top of the stem?/steerer?
Rims: Rigida SuperChromix
Cranks: The only mark I can recall atm is "SR"

Unfortunately, the paint job pretty much hid stuff like model info, metal info, etc. The original paint was white, and the frame is lugged, and thus steel I guess.

The frame is ~56cm from the centre of the pedals (bottom bracket?) to the centre of the head tube, and ~55cm from the centre of the seat tupe to the centre of the head tube. I honestly think this is a nice frame, and have read modestly good things about Sekine. Unfortunately, before the bike was disassembled, I could barely stand over the frame. I have a strong feeling that this frame is just too big for me. =(

Bike number 2, I'm pretty sure, is a department store basic model. I'm sure folks will turn up their noses, but....

Rear Derailleur: Shimano Skylark (extremely little info on this)
Front Derailleur: Shimano. No model name given. FD-AX50 Shimano Via on the back.
Brakes: Something that looks like "star"
Shifters: Mounted on stem/steerer
Rims: Lyotard
Cranks: Takigi

The frame is again lugged. It's also ~54cm centre of pedal to centre of head tube, and ~55cm centre of seat tube to centre of head tube. I had to raise the seat a bit, but standover was comfortable, and I felt somewhat confident that the bike was my size.

Now, assuming you haven't fallen asleep, here are the questions I can't seem to answer by reading/searching:

1. Are any of these pieces worth cleaning up at all? (Bear in mind this is a learning project, and I'm not expecting a super-light racing bike when I'm done.) I tried reading up as much as I could on the components, but really, most of them didn't really register a hit.

2. Bike 1 - the stem? is busted, but I can't seem to disconnect it from the fork, to remove it from the head tube. In fact, the handlebars don't seem to be able to be able to be raised/lowered. Were old-style forks/stems all one piece, or bound together somehow? (If so, I'd have to hacksaw it, and presumably buy a new stem and fork - bad news for a low-cost learning project.)

3. I've read that most people prefer downtube shifters to stemtop (or whatever you call that position). Bike 2's shifters are just clamped on, and look like they'd clamp just as well to the downtube. (The Suntour shifters look more complex, and may or may not clamp in as neatly.) Is this as straightforward as it seems (reclamp, trim cables), or is there more I need to think about?

4. (Related to 3) On bike 2, where the cables go from covered to uncovered (technical terms lacking, sorry), there's a clamp. Below that clamp, there's a small piece on the bottom of the downtube that seems to be part of the frame (same colour, black). My guess is that it's to hold that clamp in place, preventing it from sliding down? It seems pretty far up to relate to downshifters, but does this piece possibly exist to help support/house downshifters. (Wish I had a photo for this, but the bike's at my brother-in-laws at the moment.)

5. Based on my current impressions (on quality of components) and frame size, I'm tempted to try to put the Bike 1 brakes, derailleurs and possibly wheels onto Bike 2. With the exception of the rear deraileur, this looks straightforward. Bike 2's rear derailleur (Shimano Skylark) comes with some kind of adaptor on the dropout (separate piece, not part of the fram). The derailleur attaches onto the end of the axle bolt (or whatever the part is called), and bolts onto this adapter, and I guess into the dropout. The Shimano Crane GS (from Bike 1) just bolts onto the axle bolt, and nothing else. The mountings look totally incompatible. I can't seem to find anybody talking about rear derailleur mountings, so I can't tell if the switch will be trivial, impossible, needs special parts, or what.

That's it, I guess. Currently, the sekine frame is being cleaned up - paint and rust removed. It may be the most salvageable part of the bunch, and I'm kinda bummed out that it's big. Once it's cleaned up, I might try to completely rebuild bike 1 (sekine), and see if i can ride it. The standover tells me it might be rideable, but not by me. =(

I'm willing to clean up other components (frame from bike 2 doesn't really need cleaning, though being a department store frame I doubt it's anything overly special), but haven't gotten there yet.

Any feedback/advice on the Sekine, or the projects ahead of me, would be appreciated.

(Apologies in advance if some of this should have gone into the mechanics forum.)

Vuroth

[QUOTE=Vuroth]1. Are any of these pieces worth cleaning up at all? (Bear in mind this is a learning project, and I'm not expecting a super-light racing bike when I'm done.) I tried reading up as much as I could on the components, but really, most of them didn't really register a hit.[QUOTE]

Bike 1, while not a great prize, is definitely the better of the two. You could possibly make some pocket change selling off the bits - maybe enough for new cabling and brake pads.

[QUOTE=Vuroth]2. Bike 1 - the stem? is busted, but I can't seem to disconnect it from the fork, to remove it from the head tube. In fact, the handlebars don't seem to be able to be able to be raised/lowered. Were old-style forks/stems all one piece, or bound together somehow? (If so, I'd have to hacksaw it, and presumably buy a new stem and fork - bad news for a low-cost learning project.).[QUOTE]

This seems counter-intuitive, but with the wheels on the bike, and the bolt on the top of the stem loosened, give it a good, solid rap with a hammer (put a cloth over the stem if you think you may want to use it again). If it doesn't come free on the first rap, try one or two more. If it doesn't come free after a minute of this treatment, give up (but you should have success).

[QUOTE=Vuroth]3. I've read that most people prefer downtube shifters to stemtop (or whatever you call that position). Bike 2's shifters are just clamped on, and look like they'd clamp just as well to the downtube. (The Suntour shifters look more complex, and may or may not clamp in as neatly.) Is this as straightforward as it seems (reclamp, trim cables), or is there more I need to think about?.[QUOTE]

Feel free to try it, but I think you'll find that the clamp for the stem is larger than what the clamp needs to be on the downtube. The clamp on the downtube shifters needs to be on VERY securely, or the act of shifting can cause the whole mechanism to slide farther down the tube. If it does fit, you seem to have the concept of what else needs to be done. I happen to not like stem shifters, but I prefer bar end (or bar-cons) to downtube shifters. That would be another option for you if you really want to avoid stem shifters.

[QUOTE=Vuroth]4. (Related to 3) On bike 2, where the cables go from covered to uncovered (technical terms lacking, sorry), there's a clamp. Below that clamp, there's a small piece on the bottom of the downtube that seems to be part of the frame (same colour, black). My guess is that it's to hold that clamp in place, preventing it from sliding down? It seems pretty far up to relate to downshifters, but does this piece possibly exist to help support/house downshifters. (Wish I had a photo for this, but the bike's at my brother-in-laws at the moment.).[QUOTE]

Not sure. Pictures would be a big help.

[QUOTE=Vuroth]5. Based on my current impressions (on quality of components) and frame size, I'm tempted to try to put the Bike 1 brakes, derailleurs and possibly wheels onto Bike 2. With the exception of the rear deraileur, this looks straightforward. Bike 2's rear derailleur (Shimano Skylark) comes with some kind of adaptor on the dropout (separate piece, not part of the fram). The derailleur attaches onto the end of the axle bolt (or whatever the part is called), and bolts onto this adapter, and I guess into the dropout. The Shimano Crane GS (from Bike 1) just bolts onto the axle bolt, and nothing else. The mountings look totally incompatible. I can't seem to find anybody talking about rear derailleur mountings, so I can't tell if the switch will be trivial, impossible, needs special parts, or what..[QUOTE]

Everything on Bike 1 sounds better than what's on bike 2. Take a close look at the rear derailleur on the Sekeine. Unless it mounts to a separate hole in the rear dropout, you should be able to just transfer it. Closely compare the chainstays of the two bikes though. Some bikes have brazed on cable stops, and others use clamps. Wherever the derailleur stops are on the donor bike, you'd want them in the same places on the project bike.

A few other observations/comments.

First, you haven't said much about the wheelsets. Like everything else, the ones on the Sekine sound a little bit better. You will want to consider using them - especially if they are substantially lighter than the ones on the other bike. If you do this though, you will want to note the sizes of the rime. Some bikes came with 27", while others came with 700c. They are close enough that you should be able to use them even if they are different, but if they are different, you will need to make adjustments to , or possibly transfer the brake calipers.

Second, unless there is something wrong with the crankset, or if the Takigi's are way heavier than the Sakae Ringyo (that's SR), it probably isn't worth the trouble of swapping them out.

Third, any time I get a bike and I'm not sure about its maintenance history, and if there is any hint of resistance, I will have the hubs, bottom bracket and headset re-packed. Changing out the brake and derailleur cables is a good idea too. This improves function and safety.

Fourth, are you sure you can't salvage the Sekine? That would be so much nicer, and possibly easier than fiddling around with "Frankenbike".

Fifth, Good Luck. This can be a lot of fun. Maintaining and riding bikes is the best hobby I've ever had.

Thanks for the feedback.


This seems counter-intuitive, but with the wheels on the bike, and the bolt on the top of the stem loosened, give it a good, solid rap with a hammer (put a cloth over the stem if you think you may want to use it again). If it doesn't come free on the first rap, try one or two more. If it doesn't come free after a minute of this treatment, give up (but you should have success).

I'm guessing that you recommend doing it with the wheels on to protect the fork when it drops out? Or maybe I'm not understanding.

Still, since the stem is broken, I'm not afraid of giving it a good rap.


Pictures would be a big help.

Yeah, I'll do my best, next time I'm out there.


Everything on Bike 1 sounds better than what's on bike 2.

Thanks for confirming my impression. It's so hard to find much of anything detailing and comparing quality of parts this old.... :(


Take a close look at the rear derailleur on the Sekeine. Unless it mounts to a separate hole in the rear dropout, you should be able to just transfer it. Closely compare the chainstays of the two bikes though. Some bikes have brazed on cable stops, and others use clamps. Wherever the derailleur stops are on the donor bike, you'd want them in the same places on the project bike.

Ahh good advice. I'll keep my eyes open.


First, you haven't said much about the wheelsets. Like everything else, the ones on the Sekine sound a little bit better. You will want to consider using them - especially if they are substantially lighter than the ones on the other bike. If you do this though, you will want to note the sizes of the rime. Some bikes came with 27", while others came with 700c.

Ahh good point. Both rims say 27x1.25. I thought to look, but not write it down.


Second, unless there is something wrong with the crankset, or if the Takigi's are way heavier than the Sakae Ringyo (that's SR), it probably isn't worth the trouble of swapping them out.

That's good to hear. Cranks look like a very tough component to swap, especially compared to something like brakes.


Third, any time I get a bike and I'm not sure about its maintenance history, and if there is any hint of resistance, I will have the hubs, bottom bracket and headset re-packed. Changing out the brake and derailleur cables is a good idea too. This improves function and safety.

The bottom bracket on the Sekine is halfway apart, and yeah, it looks like it needs to be reworked. I hadn't thought of cables, but I assume they're cheap (and I'm guessing not interchangeable?), and since I'm looking at moving brakes and derailleurs around anyways, it will probably be an ideal time to swap them out.


Fourth, are you sure you can't salvage the Sekine? That would be so much nicer, and possibly easier than fiddling around with "Frankenbike".

Actually, I'd like to rebuild it. I need a new stem, and need to sort out the stem/fork before it gets ridden again, but if I can gain a bit of confidence swapping components to Frankenbike, I might try to rebuild the Sekine, just for the experience. All things being equal, I'd be much happier riding the Sekine frame, but I fear it's going to be just a little too big for me. Still, the only way to know for certain is going to be to rebuild it.


Fifth, Good Luck. This can be a lot of fun. Maintaining and riding bikes is the best hobby I've ever had.

Thanks. I only hope I get as much reward as I do stress and frustration.

Vuroth

Vuroth, All sounds good - but about the cables. You could interchange the cables if the lengths are adequate, but presuming they're old, they're not going to work at better than 70% efficiency of what new ones would. The advancement in brake cable "slipperyness" over the past 15-20 years has been great, plus any dirt or crud that's crept into the housings or onto the cables will be hard to get off. Add to all this the tendency of cable ends to fray, and the shape to deform where they get clamped, and.. well it's just a lot better and much less hassle to get new cables. Housings can be recycled if they're in decent shape and new cable glides through.

Should be able to get new cables for somewhere between $16.00 - $28.00 (depending on whether your LBS is naughty or nice). Housing should be about the same.