Training & Nutrition - no caffine? what to do for energy?
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I stoped drinking coffee a few months ago. no problems there but now I find myself
being tired at times.(like monday mornings...)
what suggestions can you give me for engery?
08-12-02, 12:04 PM
B12 for me.
08-12-02, 12:07 PM
fruit you need to get your blood sugar up in the AM follow that with some carbs.
I dropped caffiene a couple of months ago myself, but haven't really noticed any significant drop in energy. I do seem to sleep better though.
I actually have more long term energy without caffine but there are days when it seems like i could fall asleep while standing.
how do you get b12? vitamins or something else?
08-12-02, 12:41 PM
Your energy loss is most likely not a result of no caffeine.
I haven't had caffeine in 30 years, and I have loads of energy.
Lack of Sleep? Depression? NUtrition? Too much whoopee on weekends? Low blood sugar? Monday is a downer because you hate your job or school?
08-12-02, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by DnvrFox
Too much whoopee on weekends?
There is no such thing :beer:
Caffiene doesn't provide you with energy. It gives you a temporary boost then drops you.
Sounds more like a blood sugar problem.
As was suggested, eat some fruit and carbs in the morning. Maybe have a mid-morning fruit snack.
08-12-02, 08:52 PM
It will take time to learn to do without caffeine once you've learned to depend on it.
thanks for the suggestions.
I dropped caffine easily enough. no headaches or anything.
just some days it seems like i can't get going.
I'll give the snack idea a try.
08-12-02, 09:35 PM
Wait a minute. A Seattle-ite giving up coffee? Isn't that against the law or something?
Just curious... why?
...and what's 4130. At least most people recognize my number. :D
I never got started with caffeine, although I do eat a little chocolate (theobromine, a methylated caffeine compound) sometimes. If you do not feel energetic, definitely try a little B-12.
I stopped drinking coffee because i knew i didn't really need it.
it just made mornings really hard.
4130 is the metal that bmx frames are made out of.
4130 cro-moly steel.
i rode some sort of bmx bike for the last 15 plus years.
what the heck is 42?
08-13-02, 05:40 AM
i used to be a major Coca-Cola drinker - something like 20-25 glasses per day when i was in college - i actually think it was more the sugar than the caffeine, but it was energy...
the sugar spikes are definitely not a good thing and puts you at risk for developing diabeties.
the caffeine debate is still going on and as far as i know, it's not really clear what exactly caffeine does or it's affects on the body... in the short term it is a boost, so "using" it occaisonally for a boost is not necessarily bad... but, if you drink coffee every day, your body is used to the boost and so you don't get any benefit when you use it, only WHEN you DON'T... my personal choice is: caffeine less than once a week except for rare/special occaisions and then only short periods of time.
i gradually reduced both my caffeine and sugar over the years and by age 28 was eating/drinking very little caffeine or simple sugars...
yeah, as someone else said, for me it's basically a blood-sugar management thing... i never really ate enough quality foods to sustain energy so i always "needed" the sugar and caffeine for energy... then 30 minutes or an hour later i needed another Coke and Snickers...
i am rarely tired or sluggish now that i am more stable in my energy and don't have extreme highs and lows...
i find that the main time i am low on energy is when i do not exercise regularly: after say 3 days of no exercise, i will have trouble waking in the morning or get tired and sluggish during the day...
so, as to any specific answers:
1) eat well, with regular meals (always breakfast) with little simple sugars or junk calories
2) exercise regularly - stimulates body systems and keeps the body "ready for action" which means you have more energy --- also reduces stress
3) sleep enough -- although for different people this means different things: 8 hours is too much for some and too little for others. 6 1/2 to 7 is perfect for me and if i sleep more than 8 i will be tired --- in college i slept 2 or 3 hours during the week and 10 on the weekend and was perpetually energized and then super-tired
4) reduce stress
08-13-02, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by pnj
I stopped drinking coffee because i knew i didn't really need it.
it just made mornings really hard.
I can relate.
The reason I ask is that, in my understanding, a cup or two a day is fine, if you aren't experiencing significant blood sugar swings, etc. Which is what I've done. Like the old line about smoking, "quitting's easy... I've done it a hundred times." Given the trade-offs, I finally opted for moderating my caffeine input so I'm not wired, but don't spend half the day trying to wake up. The advice above about eating, sugar, and supplements is good in any case ... good luck!
what the heck is 42?
42 is from a book named Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy, by Douglas Adams. It is "The Ultimate answer to Life, the Universe and Everything." Unfortunately, it "suggests that what you really need to know is 'What was the Question?'."
08-14-02, 04:35 PM
the best way to get going is to realize that in 100 days it could be snowing here. i am off that couch in a sec.
Dare I assume that the Harvard University School of Medicine knows more about nutrition than we ??
page 22 Let's eat right to keep fit by Adelle Davis
a similar study was made at Harvard University by Dr Thorn and co-workers who determined blood sugar levels for six hours after meals high in carbohydrates.
A high-carbohydrate breakfast consisted of orange juice, bacon, toast, jelly, a packaged cereal and coffee, both with sugar and milk. The blood sugar rose rapidly but fell to an extremely low level, causing fatigue and inefficiency. A packaged cereal eaten only with whipping cream for the high-fat breakfast, after which the blood sugar inceased slightly, then remained at the fasting level throughout the morning.
The high protein meal consisted of skim milk, lean ground beef, and cottage cheese; the blood sugar rose to the high level of 120 milligrams and remained there throughout the entire following six hours.
To determine the effects of different types of food on energy production, metabolism tests were taken at fcrequent intervals. The metabolism, or energy production, increased only slightly after the meals high in fat or carbohydrate. After the high-protein meal, however , the metabolism rose more quickly than did the blood sugar and stayed high throughout the entire six hour study period.
p 23 sugar, cereals, hotcakes fruit, fruit juice quickly changes to sugar during digestion . in minutes blood sugar may increase from 80 to 155 milligrams ..stimulates pancreas to pour forth insulin; the insulin in turn causes the liver and muscles to withdraw sugar and store it as a form of sugar, or glycogen or change it into fat, thus preventing it being lost in urine. The tremendous amounts of sugar defeat the purpsoe for which sugar is needed -- to produce enegy efficiently. Too much sugar is withdrawn due to the oversupply of insulin; the result, ironically, is fatigue
p 24 in studies mentioned, efficiency for three hours was produced by only 22 grams or more of protein. Meals furnishing 55 grams protein sustained a high level of energy and a high metabolism for six hours afterward.
08-14-02, 07:16 PM
p 23 sugar, cereals, hotcakes fruit, fruit juice quickly changes to sugar during digestion . in minutes blood sugar may increase from 80 to 155 milligrams .
Depends on the cereal. Real oatmeal, for example, takes a long time to be converted and is an excellent long-term source of energy.
It keeps me going for many hours.
I agree on the oatmeal.It is one of the staples of my diet and my prefered source of complex carbs.Be sure to go with the whole rolled oats rather than the quick oats which are higher glycemic.Sounds like the quoted study above didn't take activity levels into account.While most people(particulerly sedentary types) probably need to reduce carbs(particularly simple) and up protein I dont think a real high protein/ low carb diet is ideal from an energy generation standpoint during physical activity like cycling particularly if intense or prolonged.To bad the study didn't consider the effects of a more balanced diet .I do agree with the apparent point of the study that protein tends to up the metabolism and promote energy generation rather than storage so it should be combined with any carb meals for hormonal balance but carbs are the raw material for efficient energy generation and so should also be included. IMO for energy production frequent small balanced meals containing unprocessed protein ,carbs(weighted toward complex but some simple like fruit)and good fats works well without causing energy level swings.As everyone is different the exact percentages are individual and also should vary with the intensity of the exercise
Most things are OK in moderation. Unless you have a medical condition (like me) 2-3 cups of coffee aren't going to have adverse affects on one's body.
Stuart O'Grady has 3 cups of espresso before every stage of a race just to get him going, doesn't seem to be affecting his riding. Most Pro's drink coffee from what I have seen, before a days riding. Some are even sponsored by Saeco.
Just don't drink it after dinner as it will disrupt a good night's sleep. I can't have any more than 1 cup of espresso a day or 3 cups of instant as it plays havoc with my heart causing an arrhythmia.
08-14-02, 09:15 PM
Harvards first breakfast would of made want to nap, bacon huh. Try this one do not eat three meals a day, I tend to snack all day mainly carbs then fruit then the beloved protien. Stay away from low fat diets., just watch how much and what kind you take in. Your brain need fat (seeing that is all it basically is) to be happy. The increase in anti depresant drug sales and low fat diets pretty much paralel themselves. And oatmeal, rice and whole grains stick with you for energy. As for high protien, my doc says for stronger heathier heart you eat you fruits in the am and then start with the carbs then afternoon evening hit the protiens, mainly vegatable but not to much protien. And yes doctors can be wrong, as well as research scientest, like who paid for the study? and what was there ultimate goal? never take anyones word just because they went to Harvard. Remember Kenneth Lay is a graduate of Harvard Business school.
I have been forced, due to Type II diabetes, to study nutrition over the past year. By no means have I become an expert on the topic. Yet my dietary habits have changed substantially as a result of my study compelled by the need to deal with diabetes.
Much of the initial material I used was provided by a dietician. Associations like the American Diabetes Association and several Internet based sites like About.com have also contributed to my knowledge base. I also bought nearly all the references regarding diabetes and diabetic diets available in local book stores and on Amazon.com.
My personal objectives were twofold. Lose weight and regulate blood glucose. Diet and exercise are the main components of my plan to meet these objectives with a small, temporary assist from medication.
I embarked on my quest to reach ideal weight and increased fitness with tight blood glucose control with a weight machine, a new bicycle and all the accoutrements of strict diet; measuring cups, gram-based food scale, precise recipies, heart monitor, body fat calipers and digital bathroom scales, log books and of course, my blood glucose monitor.
Though I will tell you that my increased knowledge of portion control and attention to nutrition labels has contributed greatly to the variety I am able to eat and knowledge of how much of anything is too much with regrd to weight gain and glucose levels, I have found myself eating a much wider variety of foods, eating more often, and replacing many former "favorites" with new favorites. It is true that I have completely given up some components of my diet which many might list as "vices," and other favorites which quickly raise my blood sugar without contributing significantly to nutrition.
Let me wrap this up quickly by saying that my studies and resulting new behaviors can be stated in the following:
Some daily exercise with more overall calories expended than consumed while eating a wide variety of foods spread frequently over the course of a day and in moderation, avoiding "empty" calories simply works. At least it does for me.
I err on the side of more exercise most often rather than attempt to do the minimum. I try to avoid foods with a high glycemic reaction and those which add to calories without nutritional benefit. Beer and sweets are about gone. I shop with an eye on nutrition labels to maximixe the nutritional value, looking for fiber content, whole grains, lower saturated fat, lower carbohydrate grams, etc. When I can I avoid processed foods in favor of fresh I do. When I feel inclined I skip the meat.
My intent is not to minimize the difficulty at all. This is and has been a real challenge. The complexity of the ultimate result is minimized though as habits are reformed. There certainly is no requirement to fulfill exact measures from each food group every single time one eats or snacks. Nor is there an exact requirement to exercise to burn an exact number of calories relative to what we ate since our last exercise session.
Find out what you are eating in terms of content and composition. Adjust it toward a more healthy component mix and number of calories and start or increase excercise to a level which takes account of your eating habits. Don't obsess. Be practical.
Webist Good post I think we are all creatures of habit to some degree so its good to see you have formed healthy habits.I dont know what your exact experience was but I think it is often a good idea for anyone trying to establish healthy eating( or exercise) habits to due so incrementally when moving from a unhealthy diet (or sedentary lifestyle) as the old habits are hard to break coldturkey.
08-15-02, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by roadbuzz
42 is from a book named Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy, by Douglas Adams. It is "The Ultimate answer to Life, the Universe and Everything."
I thought you and I were the same age, Buzz.
08-15-02, 10:21 PM
The question of blood sugar stability is crucial to me since I have suffered the unbearable jitters of adrenaline overload from hypoglycemic episodes almost as long as I can remember, since first grade.
I find that a high-carbohydrate, low fat diet makes me prone to rapid falls in blood sugar, followed by the "jitters" that feel like I just took 3 cups of coffee intravenously. I discovered that the addition of a reasonable amount of fat, (I prefer peanuts, as they are healthy) keeps my energy level constant for much longer periods. A balance between protein, fat and carbs, combined with exercise, seems to work best for me.
Inadequate carbs, on the other hand, force the body to get that glucose elsewhere, namely muscle tissue. Eating meat in place of carbs can do the trick and prevent muscle loss, but the by-products from breaking down meat to obtain sugar are toxic.
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