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Cops Gone Wild:
http://milwaukee.indymedia.org/en/2005/07/203873.shtml
http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2005/08/29685.php
http://www.copwatch.com
http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/28573.php
http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2005/08/29686.php
http://milwaukee.indymedia.org/en/2005/07/203873.shtml
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=129642
http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2005/08/56201.html
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Part of me thinks that as soon as crackdowns on CM start happening in a city, really hard crackdowns, they'll never go away.
What are the cops going to do, back down and admit that they were wrong? It's never going to happen.
That story is really messed up. That poor kid, that poor father.
I am no fan of critical mass, but I find that the reaction to it is overblown to say the least. I'd say that the number of drivers complaining about Critical Mass compared to drivers who have actually ever encountered a Critical Mass is probably about 1000 to 1.
When Police try to stop a Critical Mass, it inevitably is a clusterf***. Its not a dangerous assembly, and the inconvenience is minimal, yet some police districts treat it as if it were a contstant riot. Oddly, many other police departments manage to deal with CM just fine.
This part sums it up:
Obviously, while Milwaukee's murder rates are the highest they've been in years, the police just can't stand 60 people getting together and biking around.
Part of me thinks that as soon as crackdowns on CM start happening in a city, really hard crackdowns, they'll never go away.
What are the cops going to do, back down and admit that they were wrong? It's never going to happen.
IIRC the San Fran. police cracked down real hard, and took a lot of grief for it (despite apologists trying to spin the brutality). While they never admitting doing wrong in the first place, they did adopt a live-and-let-live attitude towards CM.
Wow....where are the anti-CM posters now that we need them for the debate? CRAP!
Arrest the father and leave the baby? Something is so horribly wrong here, I find it hard to believe.
If this is true (and I, as always, am skeptical), the police opened themselves up to a major, major lawsuit. Lots of witnesses. I would love to be a lawyer in Milwaukee about now.
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a critical mass? OK, a lot of cyclists get together, but what is the specific purpose?
Wow....where are the anti-CM posters now that we need them for the debate? CRAP!
No matter what someone thinks about CM, I don't think anyone here thinks that knocking over baby carriages is a proper reaction. This police brutality business is getting out of hand.
peace,
sam
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a critical mass? OK, a lot of cyclists get together, but what is the specific purpose?
http://www.critical-mass.org/
No matter what someone thinks about CM, I don't think anyone here thinks that knocking over baby carriages is a proper reaction. This police brutality business is getting out of hand.
peace,
sam
Yeah...but where all those law and order folks to argue....well, the father shouldn't have been there....blah blah...bicycles deserved to be hit, because they are on the street...blah blah blah...get the drift?
I don't ride CM. I find that it doesn't really achieve its objectives, and is not for me.
That said, I find the ignorant reactions by the police involved to be FAR off the reservation. It is inexcusable to throw cyclists on the ground when there is no violent crime committed by the cyclists.
Police Officers hold an immense amount of power. They are permitted to carry deadly weapons even when local law prevents ordinary citizens from doing so. With this power comes the responsibility to hold emotions in check and behave properly.
My advise to CMers: If you're going to ride in CM, take a video camera along. Get everyone else on the ride to do so as well. Mount them any way you can, and film the actions of the police as they happen. This can be presented as evidence in a brutality or misconduct trial, and it can also be released to the local media (you may even receive money for it) to increase pressure on the police via bad PR.
I just have never understood the police reaction to CM. According to the cops the cyclists are either parading without a permit or simply slowing traffic. What if the cops started dragging Grandparents out of their RV's for slowing traffic along the PCH or arresting every speeder along the local interstate. We're talking about one Friday a month, and Fridays are usually terrible for traffic anyways. IMO it's easier for the cops to bust a bunch of CM riders than to catch real criminals.
And I really don't blame the cops too much for this BS. They get their marching orders from above. I sincerely think they would much rather be out catching the true bad guys. But the city leaders know that once the drug dealers and such are caught they have to go through the court systems and clog up the jails. Where as public opinion is against CM so it's a big photo op for politicians to look like they are cracking down on anarchists and vandals. Further they know the CM'ers will pay their fines rather than do any jail time.
I've done CM a bunch of times back in Seattle, been pepper sprayed and just avoided being arrested. I don't think it changes any driver's minds, but I think they have a fundamental right to do CM. If Winnebago warrior can hold a line of cars at 45mph on the PCH without getting arrested than cyclists should be allowed to parade at will too.
My advise to CMers: If you're going to ride in CM, take a video camera along. Get everyone else on the ride to do so as well. Mount them any way you can, and film the actions of the police as they happen. This can be presented as evidence in a brutality or misconduct trial, and it can also be released to the local media (you may even receive money for it) to increase pressure on the police via bad PR.
New Rule: All CM will have cameras.
Report bad cops on www.copwatch.com
According to the cops the cyclists are either parading without a permit or simply slowing traffic.
Around here, CMers don't just "slow traffic." They run red lights, enter intersections illegally, yell "GRIDLOCK!" and pile themselves together for ten minutes in the middle of the biggest intersections in the city. The longer people honk, the longer they stay. When they get bored of that (or the cops get too close for comfort), they ride up on the ramps to the Bay Bridge (which is legally closed to non-motorized traffic) and string themselves out along the entire roadway, feet down, blocking the bridge. Any motorist that tries to challenge their blockade gets a kicked-in fender, followed by the CMer's pathetic whining to the police about being "victimized."
If CMers just got on their bikes en masse and rode around legally, I'd have nothing bad to say about them -- that's called a "group ride." On the other hand, the CMers around here spend more time purposefully clogging intersections with their feet down than they do actually riding their bikes. If people on foot did these sorts of things, they'd be arrested for any of a number of reasons; if people on bikes do it, they're apparently just expressing their political views, right?
From what I can tell, the vast majority of CMers around here aren't doing anything substantive for bicycle advocacy; most of the CM riders I've known personally hardly ever ride their bikes anywhere else. It seems that many of them are just wannabe anarchists who find the "critical mass" label a convenient excuse to be a prick without fear of repercussion.
- Warren
Yeah...but where all those law and order folks to argue....well, the father shouldn't have been there....blah blah...bicycles deserved to be hit, because they are on the street...blah blah blah...get the drift?
Well, we know the real reason you posted this. Not for the sympathy of this man, but to troll this out as long as you can. Good job.
Well, we know the real reason you posted this. Not for the sympathy of this man, but to troll this out as long as you can. Good job.
Yes. THERE is a diabolical plot around every corner, eh? :D
Well, one thing's becoming increasingly clear: if you're trying to nonviolently and legally partake in a CM ride, passively taking police abuse in hopes of avoiding trouble is not doing yourself any favor.
I couldn't ride CM 'cause I'd beat the ever loving crap the first ego-maniac bully pig that tried to tackle me.
I'm working towards Law School; I think I'll just continue with my mad plot to get into the system and then defeat it from inside vs. getting beat up every third Friday of the month in the name of something most only believe in theoretically.
Until then, I'll keep quietly riding my bike or running literally everywhere and keep my friends, co-workers and fellow students in the mindset that I'm a bit scary and nuts enough to hold the newly dubbed title "Marathon Man" in the part of Texas that I call home.
Around here, CMers don't just "slow traffic." They run red lights, enter intersections illegally, yell "GRIDLOCK!" and pile themselves together for ten minutes in the middle of the biggest intersections in the city. The longer people honk, the longer they stay. When they get bored of that (or the cops get too close for comfort), they ride up on the ramps to the Bay Bridge (which is legally closed to non-motorized traffic) and string themselves out along the entire roadway, feet down, blocking the bridge. Any motorist that tries to challenge their blockade gets a kicked-in fender, followed by the CMer's pathetic whining to the police about being "victimized."
If CMers just got on their bikes en masse and rode around legally, I'd have nothing bad to say about them -- that's called a "group ride." On the other hand, the CMers around here spend more time purposefully clogging intersections with their feet down than they do actually riding their bikes. If people on foot did these sorts of things, they'd be arrested for any of a number of reasons; if people on bikes do it, they're apparently just expressing their political views, right?
From what I can tell, the vast majority of CMers around here aren't doing anything substantive for bicycle advocacy; most of the CM riders I've known personally hardly ever ride their bikes anywhere else. It seems that many of them are just wannabe anarchists who find the "critical mass" label a convenient excuse to be a prick without fear of repercussion.
- Warren
Well that doesn't sound like any of the CM rides that I participated in, but obviously things have changed.
Yeah...but where all those law and order folks to argue....well, the father shouldn't have been there....blah blah...bicycles deserved to be hit, because they are on the street...blah blah blah...get the drift?
Maybe they are not jumping in because the article says the riders were obeying the law. It sounds like the only issue the police can come up with is the "permit" one. They were stopped at a red light waiting to make a turn.
I don't think most cops realize this, but if it's determined that they actually violated someone's Constitutional rights, and not just a regular law, then they are personally liable, and can be sued.
I'd be down at the D.A.'s office giving him/her no rest until the police officer was charged for the assault on the baby.
New Rule: Bring cameras to CM
[QUOTE=pseudobrit]Well, one thing's becoming increasingly clear: if you're trying to nonviolently and legally partake in a CM ride, passively taking police abuse in hopes of avoiding trouble is not doing yourself any favor.
I couldn't ride CM 'cause I'd beat the ever loving crap the first ego-maniac bully pig that tried to tackle me.[/QUOTE
Such a tough guy behind the keyboard.
[QUOTE=pseudobrit]Well, one thing's becoming increasingly clear: if you're trying to nonviolently and legally partake in a CM ride, passively taking police abuse in hopes of avoiding trouble is not doing yourself any favor.
I couldn't ride CM 'cause I'd beat the ever loving crap the first ego-maniac bully pig that tried to tackle me.[/QUOTE ...SNIP
I too have seen such bravado. I do not doubt it can and will happen on occasion. On the other hand every time in my career when I was around such people they ended up going to jail and a bit worse for wear.
I think the CM stuff is not good PR for the cops but then they are between a rock and a hard place. Some will overreact and make'em all look bad.
As for me...I will pass on CM and continue to ride for my own reasons. :)
"If a person cannot walk into the middle of the town square and express his or her views without fear of arrest, imprisonment or physical harm, then that person is living in a fear society, not a free society." - Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of State, January 18, 2005
If the cops really want to quiet down CM's they should put a few bike cops on the ride and just write tickets. Less press and people might act rationally.
Wow....where are the anti-CM posters now that we need them for the debate? CRAP!
Do you post flame bait much?
This poll is stupid. Of course the police shouldn't go nuts.
On the other hand, it would be better for bicycling if CM did not exist.
You've bumped this thread to the top, I see. Trying to get as much mileage out of this as you can.
I know CM would like to keep the focus on the behavior of the police and divert attention from how counter-productive CM is. Complaining about police behavior has nothing to do with cycling advocacy. It's one of the big lies of CM that it does.
Such a tough guy behind the keyboard.
I said I wouldn't ride CM 'cause I'd have trouble controlling my temper. You're the only "tough guy" behind the keyboard throwing insults. Piss off.
I said I wouldn't ride CM 'cause I'd have trouble controlling my temper. You're the only "tough guy" behind the keyboard throwing insults. Piss off.
You would lose your temper and then get your butt kicked, you seemed to think it would be the other way around.
You would lose your temper and then get your butt kicked, you seemed to think it would be the other way around.
I've seen a group of police beating on people (6 feet in front of me and for no damn reason) so I know what the deal is. That doesn't mean you can't do damage to one person before the rest swarm you and tear your ass up. My thinking on a CM ride where an officer assualted me without provocation would be that I'd be getting my ass kicked + a resisting arrest charge no matter what, so I may as well earn it. And that's why I don't ride CM.
Do you post flame bait much?
This poll is stupid. Of course the police shouldn't go nuts.
On the other hand, it would be better for bicycling if CM did not exist.
What if the police simply ignore CM the same way they ignore the hundreds of thousands of cars that create the traffic jams everyday?
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