Bicyclists as minorities

[cyclezealot]

What does one think of this retalitory tactic...While up in Oregon, one cyclist I encountered..He just for once got tired of being attacked by motorists who hate cyclists and intentionally drive their cars too close to cyclists...Risking our lives..( That is not some form of discrimination.!?)
Well.Anyway..He was angry..So, he wrapped a flag about his rear rack..But, within that flag's end was like a small nail..attached to the end of the aluminum post pointed outwards...
well..A couple of times, that nail nailed an oncoming car that swerved too close..
Don't know if I would do such..But, I sort of like the idea.?
Did not think to ask..Could not that nail be a safety concern, should it get entangled about the car?

[Cromulent]

Uh... the nail is a bad idea.

The article is over the top... comparing the anger of some cagers towards cyclists to racism is ugly and horribly inappropriate. However, I think the 'seperate but equal' argument is interesting. "Back of the bus" is NOT the same as "get off the road". It just isn't. But it is interesting.

I am not a fan of bike paths. I use them from time to time, but I don't like them. Around here, the MUP I use is clogged with joggers and casual strollers, dogs, roller bladers... I don't begrudge anybody their activities. All are welcome to use the path for whatever activity at whatever speed they want to go. I prefer the roads.

Seperating cyclists from the roads is wrong. We are vehicles. And as vehicles we are expected to be on the road following the rules of the road. The flip side of that is that we deserve and should expect the same legal (if not personal) respect from drivers. I don't care what cagers shout at me, as long as they don't throw stuff at me and give me room to ride.

But I am a fan of bike lanes. Yes... you have to watch out for doors, and in large cities like New York they can be extremely dangerous. Here in Milwaukee the added bike lanes have been great for the most part.

But a 'let's put cyclists on paths' attitude worries me a bit. Building a seperate infrastructure for cyclists seems like a waste of public money. MUPs are great for some folks, but spending 'alternative transportation' money on bike paths, rather than 'park/recreation' money, is silly.

So I'm a little back and forth. I don't like bike paths, but I like bike lanes in some spots. I'm all for some separation? Doesn't make a lot of sense, but there it is.

I think we're lucky here in Wisconsin... at least in this part of Wisconsin. I don't get harassed by drivers and 99% percent of folks give me more than enough room. I take the lane when I have to and don't apologize for it. I've been shouted at a couple of times, but I attribute that to general idiocy not specific bike hatred. I've come to realize that most people who honk at me are doing so to let me know they are there. It's their way of being safe, or attempting to be safe. When I've crashed, pedestrians and drivers have stopped to see if I was okay.

I don't want to be on a path off the road. A bike is a vehicle. I want the road. I want to be two or three feet from the curb. I want the lane when I need it. I want to ride like a vehicle. I also know that cars win 'cause they have greater mass and usually more speed. So I do ride with that in mind.

We're not different from traffic. We are traffic.

[richardmasoner]

I'm not completely in agreement with the idea that cyclists are the same as minorities who are discriminated against, but there is one element of it that comes to mind. These are reports of cowardly weaklings who bully or harass cyclists from their cars or trucks.

I found an interesting story this morning about the untouchable castes in India (http://www.cyclelicio.us/2005/08/get-off-road.html). In some villages, the Dalits (or "untouchables") are not permitted to ride their bikes because "the street belonged to us [the upper castes] and the dalits have been debarred from riding cycle or bike ... as it would be considered an insult to us."

[Roody]

Uh... the nail is a bad idea.

The article is over the top... comparing the anger of some cagers towards cyclists to racism is ugly and horribly inappropriate. However, I think the 'seperate but equal' argument is interesting. "Back of the bus" is NOT the same as "get off the road". It just isn't. But it is interesting.

I am not a fan of bike paths. I use them from time to time, but I don't like them. Around here, the MUP I use is clogged with joggers and casual strollers, dogs, roller bladers... I don't begrudge anybody their activities. All are welcome to use the path for whatever activity at whatever speed they want to go. I prefer the roads.

Seperating cyclists from the roads is wrong. We are vehicles. And as vehicles we are expected to be on the road following the rules of the road. The flip side of that is that we deserve and should expect the same legal (if not personal) respect from drivers. I don't care what cagers shout at me, as long as they don't throw stuff at me and give me room to ride.

But I am a fan of bike lanes. Yes... you have to watch out for doors, and in large cities like New York they can be extremely dangerous. Here in Milwaukee the added bike lanes have been great for the most part.

But a 'let's put cyclists on paths' attitude worries me a bit. Building a seperate infrastructure for cyclists seems like a waste of public money. MUPs are great for some folks, but spending 'alternative transportation' money on bike paths, rather than 'park/recreation' money, is silly.

So I'm a little back and forth. I don't like bike paths, but I like bike lanes in some spots. I'm all for some separation? Doesn't make a lot of sense, but there it is.

I think we're lucky here in Wisconsin... at least in this part of Wisconsin. I don't get harassed by drivers and 99% percent of folks give me more than enough room. I take the lane when I have to and don't apologize for it. I've been shouted at a couple of times, but I attribute that to general idiocy not specific bike hatred. I've come to realize that most people who honk at me are doing so to let me know they are there. It's their way of being safe, or attempting to be safe. When I've crashed, pedestrians and drivers have stopped to see if I was okay.

I don't want to be on a path off the road. A bike is a vehicle. I want the road. I want to be two or three feet from the curb. I want the lane when I need it. I want to ride like a vehicle. I also know that cars win 'cause they have greater mass and usually more speed. So I do ride with that in mind.

We're not different from traffic. We are traffic.I agree with your main points. From time to time there do arise systematic attempts to get bicycles off the road. We should (and do) fight those attempts vigorously, and so far they have not met with much success. I do want to focus on that struggle -- our fight to maintain access to roads. This effort cannot be compared to the civil rights struggle (any more than a brawl in a parking lot can be compared to the Pacific front in World War II), but it is an important issue for millions of us who ride bikes. The foolishness in this thread about cagers aiming their cars at us because they somehow hate bicycles is merely a distraction from the real issues that face us.

[cyclezealot]

The rub of this argument is many of us view our right to cycle as a First Amendment right..I think it sort of is..We are supposed to have the right of unhindered travel. Does that mean we must have a car to enjoy that right...
Our choice is the bike. Keep us off the road we lose that right.

[Dchiefransom]

Are we still arguing about an article that many think compares us to other groups, when it's really about group psycology, and only uses the other groups as examples?

[dynaryder]

The article was over the top. While it may strike a chord with some cyclists here in the forum,I'd bet that to the public at large it would be plain ranting. Here's an idea;show this article to some of your non-riding friends and co-workers,then post the responces here. This would show the article's true validity.

BTW,the only points I did agree with were the last "we need to destroy the belief..." ones. I do think cycling advocacy should focus more on the fact that we are people . We're doctors and nurses,community leaders and clergy,teachers,military personnel,scientists,engineers,and just plain regular folks,just like the car drivers. It's just that we get around a different way. I think if we focused more on the fact that the people on bicycles are just like the people in cars,we might reach them better.

[cyclezealot]

Yeah. Dynaryter...Those might be the one's who are trying to deny you access to the road..After all, you don't pay taxes..So the road belongs to them..
Before the 1970's one had to pay a poll tax to vote..You think riding is a first amendment right, I call it at the very least discrimination.

[slagjumper]

I think that any sub group could benefit from studying the struggles of African Americans. When you are marginalized by the dominant culture, you are driven to certain things that you would not be driven to if you where in the dominant culture. This does not make all sub groups equal. Some sub groups are clearly worse off than others.

One thing is for sure, if you are in the subgroup you will likely need to do something more than politely ask for systemic change.

[rs_woods]

I somehow forgot to mention that he seemed to think that brakechecking a cyclist was ok and even went so far as to suggest that he'd back up into a cyclist and run over their bike. I didn't really like this guy too much before and, after that conversation, I am developing a real distaste for the fat *******.
The subject of the thread aside (or, as it is often said, "off topic"), what forces suppressed the physical manifestation of your abhorrence for this, so described, "fat *******"? Blatant disrespect, ego mending for the offending party as it may be, should not occur without consequence.

[javna_golina]

Alright, now that I'm a minority, every time I fail in societies eyes I can blame it on descrimination. Free ticket out of personal responsibility!

I think in many cultures cycling is seen as a kids thing, and adults that do kids thing shouldn't be given as much respect, or so the thinking goes. that, and "they're in my way".

[cyclezealot]

Javna...Being a cycling minority does not mean you are destined to live in the ghetto..It just means as soon as you get off the bike and keep the bike out of the way of cars- the rightful owner of the roads- you have more than likely re-joined society and now a conformist to what is expected of you.
Unless, you constantly wear cycing momentos, ie- cycling t shirts , whatever-that reminds them you are different. As do I .

[Metieval]

We had some 60 show up at critical mass.

I was trying to buy your sob story for being a victim on a bike. Yet I was wondering why certain cyclist feel threatened. Yes some drivers are jerks, but that is usually because they are uneducated or just because they are brainless.

But to Partake in Critical mass which is just begging for negative attention. And then to complain about the negative attention you receive because you are a cyclist?!?!?!?!

I don't feel sorry for you. And I think if you put a little effort into trying to blend with the world instead of putting yourself on a different plane. Then you might not feel so alienated.

I think some people (quite a few) just look for reasons to say they are not treated fairly. IT must have something to do with the need for drama in their life.

I do understand that some people are going to be mean, or will discriminate against you just because.

BUT WHY ON EARTH WOULD A PERSON EVER DO SOMETHING TO BEG FOR MORE OF IT? and then turn around and want pity parties?

[Gurgus]

The subject of the thread aside (or, as it is often said, "off topic"), what forces suppressed the physical manifestation of your abhorrence for this, so described, "fat *******"? Blatant disrespect, ego mending for the offending party as it may be, should not occur without consequence.

I'm not sure if I caught your drift. If by the above you meant "why dintcha smack him?". Well, mainly because I'm a fairly non-violent person(more non-violent the more I ride, it seems). I posted this story when I was still quite piqued about it. The fellow in question is, by marriage, part of my family. His opinion made me mad, but, he's entitled to it. I can only hope he doesn't actually go out and hurt some poor cyclist. As to my description of him as a "fat *******", well, it may sound harsh,but, he is fairly overweight and has a tendancy, as stated previously, to act like a *******. If indeed I had cranked him one, I'm sure it wouldn't go over too well with my family.

Ah well, you can't pick your family, right?

[cyclezealot]

I think some of us overact to the word 'minority.' being a cyclist/commuter means we do not conform to majority opinion that cars are king..That has some ramifications in a car culture, many of us view as destructive to society for many reasons.
In Klamath Falls, I got sexually harassed by a bunch of punk kids just asking directions to a train station and I was wearing street clothes..
I thought attempting to be athletic was a positive in this culture. Some of us overact to constantly being harassed. Something is wrong with society when they make us have to act like the many jerks that behave such as motorists do.