I was riding with a friend today, following traffic rules, when a passenger in a car yelled at us with a lot of profanity that we should not be on the road. I yelled back that he should read his driver's manual. Not a colorful or clever retort, I know, but it was the heat of the moment and I had two conflicting thoughts going through my mind:
1) I've got a big chip on my shoulder regarding being told that I shouldn't be on public roads, and although I know how vulnerable I am on a bike, I have a lot of trouble taking the high road and ignoring such taunts. I wanted to hold my ground, but at the same time I didn't want to provoke the person further.
2) I had a bad feeling about this person. The anger and intensity of the passenger's voice told me that he was not stable.
As the car drove ahead the passenger yelled back, venomously, that he didn't care what the driver's manual said, followed with, "do you have a problem with that?". I should have let it go, but I laughingly replied that I did have a problem with it. For what it is worth, I did not mean to escalate the situation; my intention with the laughter was to lighten the exchange and let it go.
At the next intersection the driver let passenger out of the car and made a right hand turn. At first it looked like it was a legitimate drop off for the passenger, yet we were apprehensive (reasonably so) and moved closer to the center of the lane to create a bigger gap between us and the individual. As we passed he suddenly ran from the sidewalk to the street towards my friend, who was in front, with his hands outstretched as if to push him over. My friend swerved to the left to avoid the collision, and I had to swerve even further to the left to avoid hitting my friend. Before I knew it I had crossed the center line and was in the path of an oncoming car. Luckily the driver was paying attention to the situation, slowed, and moved to his right to avoid hitting me.
It was extremely close. This was, without a doubt, the scariest experience I've had on a bicycle; after discussing the situation at length with my friend afterwards, we concluded that his intention must have been to push one of us into oncoming traffic.
Like many of us, I'm a diehard commuter and recreational cyclist. I love cycling and take pride in riding everywhere I go and that I ride in all weather conditions. I'm accustomed to the pitfalls, such as occasional shouts from drivers, and I've had a few heated verbal exchanges. Over the years, however, I've come more and more to the realization that it isn't worth the risk to respond to hostile people while I'm on the road. Obviously I don't always follow that rule, but I think today may have permanently changed my behavior.
It is infuriating to be chastised while riding, but today I think I really got the point that "on the streets" is not the place to change minds. No verbal response on the road will ever change the opinion of an ignorant driver, and the fact is that we are extremely vulnerable on bicycles. Although it feels good to stand up for one's self and shout back, from now I'm going focus my anger and take a more active role with local groups working to improve conditions for cyclists.
sabretech2001
08-20-05, 10:12 PM
So, you got into a potentially fatal situation with an oncoming car, and instead of putting it aside for the moment, and beating the h3ll out of the toad that caused it, you get hooked by the 'your life flashing before your eyes' thing. And the guy who caused it just walked away. I'll bet he's having a good laugh with his buddies right about now.
You had a chance to teach this bonehead that there are immediate consequences to certain actions, instead you let him know that it is perfectly all right to assault any cyclist he might encounter. And anyone he might tell this story to, which I'm betting is a couple of dozen by now.
Moreover, instead of realizing that you could have stepped up and did not, you are choosing to just accept any crap that might come your way in the future. Thanks for the warning: I'll avoid South Bend from now on.
Big Tommy C
08-20-05, 10:19 PM
I like to smile and wave when people yell at me.
I think it annoys them.
sabre, I think you're forgetting something: A cyclist isn't necessarily a good fighter. Trust me, I've seen some fight.
sabretech2001
08-20-05, 10:35 PM
True enough, Big Tom. Skidding around on cleats (been there, done that) doesn't help much either.
Hey Derailed: did either of you at least get the effing plate number? Can you ID the vehicle so you can then get the plate number? Remember what they looked like? You might still be able to salvage this travesty, and not let this bottom feeder get away with this.
aadhils
08-20-05, 10:53 PM
You should have run in to the guy before he had a chance of pushing over your riding buddy...
Cyclepath
08-20-05, 11:25 PM
In my experience, reporting offending drivers is useless unless there are witnesses, & even then i think it would have to be more than someone yelling as they drive by, no matter how dangerous that can be.
After many years of attacks while living in Conn. i started to strike back in various ways. I think this should be on a case by case basis. In some parts of the country this may be less advisable. In Conn. I always found the offenders were cowards & i could retaliate in pretty much any way i wanted, be it flipping them the bird, swearing back at them, or what have you. No incident ever escalated.
I don't know what would work to change the attitudes of Ugly American rogue drivers but i applaud those who are trying to do so.
Derailed
08-20-05, 11:27 PM
Perhaps we could have taught him a lesson, or perhaps this person willing to push my friend into an oncoming car (i.e. attempted homicide) would have a knife, or perhaps his friends were waiting to loop back. However, I think you missed my point: the situation could have been avoided by laughing the comments off in the first place. There's no shortage of idiots on the road, but I would rather spend my time trying to make real progress instead of fighting the lowest common denominator. I'm sorry if these posts sound preachy, but all I can think of is that I could have been riding with my wife and watched this happen to her.
So, you got into a potentially fatal situation with an oncoming car, and instead of putting it aside for the moment, and beating the h3ll out of the toad that caused it, you get hooked by the 'your life flashing before your eyes' thing. And the guy who caused it just walked away. I'll bet he's having a good laugh with his buddies right about now.
You had a chance to teach this bonehead that there are immediate consequences to certain actions, instead you let him know that it is perfectly all right to assault any cyclist he might encounter. And anyone he might tell this story to, which I'm betting is a couple of dozen by now.
Moreover, instead of realizing that you could have stepped up and did not, you are choosing to just accept any crap that might come your way in the future. Thanks for the warning: I'll avoid South Bend from now on.
G4teamG
08-20-05, 11:30 PM
PEPPER SPRAY...When in doubt whip it out. Be safe. Late.
Cyclepath
08-20-05, 11:32 PM
Derailed, i agree with you. By the same token, in my view at some point a person has to fight back if only to maintain their self respect. I admire those who can maintain total equanimity.
77Univega
08-20-05, 11:42 PM
I yelled back that he should read his driver's manual.
I think that was a good response.
The anger and intensity of the passenger's voice told me that he was not stable.
Very possibly true.
today I think I really got the point that "on the streets" is not the place to change minds.
I agree with your conclusion.
--- I would add that mental illness is REAL. There are people on the streets who might otherwise be incarcerated in an institution for the criminally insane. Just because a person is on the streets and not in a mental institution does not mean they are not criminally dangerous.
In that situation, I think you DID stand your ground when you "yelled back that he should read his driver's manual". You made your point. Once you realized he wasn't stable, it was not the time to provoke him further.
Some posters here on these Forums may ridicule you for "accepting crap". But it is impossible to "fight back" and prevail over a bonafide mental case, it is just impossible. That's why they are called "insane".
myates1980
08-21-05, 07:00 AM
I guess I'm lucky being a Police officer. I've had similar things happen to me even when I was on duty and had "POLICE" emblazoned across my back! I can't tell you the satisfaction of incarcerating an jerk like that. Then again I'm also within the legal right to take them down using a weapon (my police bike)...so I am allowed to do a lot more in terms of subduing one of these guys than the normal public would normally be allowed to do. But that being said...he WAS assaulting you, you had the legal right to subdue him in that particular situation (but it would have been hard without training).
oboeguy
08-21-05, 03:11 PM
I guess I'm lucky being a Police officer. I've had similar things happen to me even when I was on duty and had "POLICE" emblazoned across my back! I can't tell you the satisfaction of incarcerating an jerk like that. Then again I'm also within the legal right to take them down using a weapon (my police bike)...so I am allowed to do a lot more in terms of subduing one of these guys than the normal public would normally be allowed to do. But that being said...he WAS assaulting you, you had the legal right to subdue him in that particular situation (but it would have been hard without training).
Dude, you're my hero! You should post yourself in my "good cop" thread. :)
OP: I have the same problem. Sometimes it's hard to contain your anger, but that's really the safest course of action, unless of course you have a fork-mounted RPG. :D
Trevor98
08-21-05, 04:16 PM
Call the cops, heighten the importance to the cops with "I think I saw a (gun, bottle, or whatever)" and over dramatize the actual events. Eventually the driver will be stopped for something and this will just give the cops more to harass him over. You can always recant the claim or ignore it as you we full of adrenaline.
Even if nothing ever happens because of your call, you will feel better because something may. Use the cops, that is what we pay them for. It sounds like this jerk needs to be taken off the streets before he really hurts someone. The next cyclist he attacks may not be as lucky as you.
77Univega
08-21-05, 04:42 PM
Call the cops, heighten the importance to the copsThe next cyclist he attacks may not be as lucky as you. --- Yeah, that's real important, I shoulda said that too. If it's impossible to subdue an insane person, at least follow-up by filing a report to the police.
Puppypaws
08-21-05, 05:27 PM
Myates,
If Derailed had the plate # or a photo of the sociopaths that did this, would the police go and charge them?
I saw on a thread where someone suggested having a disposable camera on the bike.
Do you think that helps?
myates1980
08-21-05, 06:45 PM
Myates,
If Derailed had the plate # or a photo of the sociopaths that did this, would the police go and charge them?
I saw on a thread where someone suggested having a disposable camera on the bike.
Do you think that helps?
Absolutely! The problem with a lot of officers not acting on cyclist complaints is that they did NOT witness the event and cannot prove the charge...the Police are the ones that have to prove the veracity of a charge to first the DA and then the court. I usually explain that it will be near impossible to prove anything unless there is security footage of the event...which is only really possible in metro areas. I do visit the offender if there is a lisence plate and ask them about what happened, you'd be suprised what a driver will tell you when you're standing there with a gun on your belt. If there is an admission of wrong doing I WILL charge them but I always provide them with literature on bike safety and explain to them the pedalcycle laws for my area if they don't admit anything outright. This is usually the most I can do unless the person that was attacked can obtain a security video from a local business. This is why I support traffic surveillance cameras. But a witness can be worth more than you can imagine...confront people on the sidewalks and ask for their telephone numbers...if the story you tell and the story they tell corroborate then you definitly have a case.