Forum Suggestions & User Assistance - Forum Thoughts As Growth Zooms

As the forum continues to expand, I have a few thoughts to share. I have been around over 4 years, and previously was a member of a preceeding "Bicycle Bob" forum, which when he got carpal tunnel syndrome, we pretty much all joined this one. We have gone from having 10-17 members signed on with maybe 10 guests to sometimes thousands signed in at one time. Wow, what a monument to the success of the forum.

Therefore, I think perhaps we should consider how the forum might best serve the needs of the folks.

One of the concerns I have is that posts are entered so fast and furiously that a new post can easily get lost, particularly in the road cycling, mtn biking and similar forums.

Then there is the problem of "moving" posts, which many take as a direct slap in the face, as if they didn't know what they were doing in the first place. And then the moved post gets lost in its new location.

I think we need to think of major subforums within the main forum. Perhaps age-related or in some other organizational format. I.e., allowing a plethora and broad range of postings within such forums as the 50+ forum, covering a wide variety of topics. Generally, when a 50+r posts, he/she wants the reaction of other 50+rs.

Or, perhaps the Road Cycling forum. which, as I type this on a Monday morning, has 310 folks viewing, and many posting all at once.

I don't even go to the road cycling forum any more because I simply can not keep up, and I no longer know any of the folks, and the character of the forum seems to have changed.

I don't have any easy answers, but I think the topic is worth discussing to get the ideas and reactions of others.

How about it?

Any other thoughts?

Thanks for reading

One of the only solutions/alleviations I can think of would be to add additional subforums to the sections. Most of the forums could be broken down into "General" , "Equipment", "Gear", etc. Maybe that would help with the massive amount of posts.

Perhaps we could have each forum have a poll with "What sub-sections would you like to see". And have a good size list with multiple options availible, along with "other, please post"

After a week or so, once enough submissions are in, mods could then take that info and determine what sub-forums to add.

Just a thought

I wish I could say I've been a member for 4 years, but (sadly) I joined in March 2003. At the time the forum was active, but not as crazy active as it's been lately. As I type there are 1812 people online, almost 500 of them members.

I hate to sound like a know-it-all, but the internet in general is starting to reach critical mass. I don't think its possible anymore to nurture a "small community" on the web, where most people know each other. Now, you recognize the "major playas" on the forum, but alot of advice comes from no-names as well. When I started using forums in 2001, the average time for a response to be posted to a thread would be around 3 days; now, I can expect a reply in less than five minutes. That's really amazing.

As for the moved topic issue, Vbulletin (the forum software bikeforums uses) has a redirect feature, so when a mod moves a thread, a message will be left in the previous forum that says something along the lines of "this thread moved to ____; click here to be transferred there". I haven't seen the mods here using it that much, but it would be really helpful.

i think it's equally true that with so many subforums, it becomes likely to lose posts as well. and because not everyone goes to all the subforums, you can easily miss out on good information if it's buried under layers of organization.

i still think that the biggest help to this forum would be an overhaul of the search function. it's pretty primitive and downright awful to use sometimes.

i think it's equally true that with so many subforums, it becomes likely to lose posts as well. and because not everyone goes to all the subforums, you can easily miss out on good information if it's buried under layers of organization.

i still think that the biggest help to this forum would be an overhaul of the search function. it's pretty primitive and downright awful to use sometimes.

The only problem I see with fixing the subforums:
1) Lose the subforums totally and instead force posts into a larger category (i.e. MTB Racing-->MTB)
2) Lose the subforums and give each one their own forum

Either way, it just clouds up the forums even more than they currently are.

As for the search, I'd like to see a better one too, but I doubt it could be fixed any way other than upgrading to Vbulletin 3.5 RC2.

bleh--keep it simple

subforums will just confuse people more

if you think OT posts get moved a lot now, just wait until

"Well, you should've posted this in the bikeforums/road cycling/gear/moderately priced/lights/rear red light/battery-powered forum"

it's complex enough for newbies--if they want to stay, they'll learn quick enough

I find the search function adequate. If you take the time to isolate the post it is easy to find.

Mods should be leaving the redirected thread on if a thread is moved. I use this often UNLESS I trash the thread. If I throw the thread out, I don't redirect, simple reason, you guys won't be able to access it anyways.

Maybe I am old school (like unix/dos) but I hate large primary indexes. c: drive should have 4 or 5 directories with progressively deeper isolation. This works in db's and programming too. Now thats not the way this forum was setup, but I find it is a good in between. Sometimes there are mistakes made and a main subforum is basically useless but for the most part, I think the front is looking ok.



One of the concerns I have is that posts are entered so fast and furiously that a new post can easily get lost, particularly in the road cycling, mtn biking and similar forums.


This is true. I suppose. If you come in once a day then you will miss a lot. But I don't see a way to fix this without reducing users. But I think people who come in that infrequently, check for keywords in posts they would respond in and in key areas. I looked the other day, and I have 37 posts in road cycling in 3 years and 14,000 posts. (for example)



Then there is the problem of "moving" posts, which many take as a direct slap in the face, as if they didn't know what they were doing in the first place. And then the moved post gets lost in its new location.


I am sure you could find some ss/fg guys to assist you with this argument. But heres the cincher. If someone posts a post in 50+ that has some semblance of application to that specific forum, yet has application outside the forum, it will be moved. Period. Why do you get to keep a subject to yourself because of age if it applies to all people. This applies to all forums. We are actually pretty liberal with this and have let things go, but if we let each forum post what they want because they want to isolate themselves, I think that would be a mistake for such an intermixed community.

Quite simply, people should realize where to post things, they wouldn't get moved and they would get a wider array of answers. There is a lot of relaxed moderating that goes on when it comes to certain thread.



I think we need to think of major subforums within the main forum. Perhaps age-related or in some other organizational format. I.e., allowing a plethora and broad range of postings within such forums as the 50+ forum, covering a wide variety of topics. Generally, when a 50+r posts, he/she wants the reaction of other 50+rs.


Wow, talk about creating a great divide. I see no way that this could maintain such a community. So

50+
65+
18-25
26 to 35
Clyde
Rynos (cause man they are bigger than clydes)
weight weenies
Skinnies folk
ss/fg skinny folk who carry a bag around the city
etc...

I don't like the idea of dividing based on race/creed/colour etc...I think it is opening the door to some seriously bad examples of descrimination. I don't know where Joe stands officially but I will be sure to pass along this thread to him to see what his opinion would be. :)



I don't even go to the road cycling forum any more because I simply can not keep up, and I no longer know any of the folks, and the character of the forum seems to have changed.


I dont spend time in there but this isn't the first complaint I have received about any of the forums. It is hard to maintain a sense of community in such a wide spectrumed (holy poor english batman) group of riders. That would be a tough call but one which might be looked at.

In the end I think there has to be a balance. To many subforums makes for a hellacious navigation of the site, to many sub-sub-forums just makes posting tedious. I don't visit any sub-sub-forums. I figure one layer of posting is enough. I am sure some of the other mods have viewed this and maybe even Joe. Something we definately need to mull over. A rebuild of the basic structure of the site would cause way more problems than I would think acceptable unless there were 100% concrete solutions. I know we removed 4 stickies from mtbiking and some of the guys were up in arms. Movng and renaming would be....scary...

Maelstrom
Admin

If someone posts a post in 50+ that has some semblance of application to that specific forum, yet has application outside the forum, it will be moved. Period. Why do you get to keep a subject to yourself because of age if it applies to all people.

I obviously respect your opinions and thoughts. Thanks for responding in such detail.

FWIW, in the past, we have had a number of posts posted in the 50+ forum where the poster had no interest in the opinions of a 20yo to the question presented. He/she was really interested in the thoughts of those is a similar age situation. I.e., how many miles do you go in a day, what is average speed, what energy level do you have, do you cycle more when you retire, and similar types of questions that have been moved because the poster failed to ask "What energy level do 50+rs have?" or "What is the average speed of 50+rs?" assuming, of course, that by posting it in the 50+ forum he had already directed the question to other 50+rs. Yet, the post was moved because it seemed to be a general interest post, when, in fact, it was not.

Personally, I have not the slightest interest in how fast a 20yo can go or how far they can go. I am at a different stage in my life, as are many of the 50+rs - but not all, and they frequently DO participate in the forums which attract the younger folks. I can no longer compete in any way with a 20yo.

Of course, there are many 20yo who do read the 50+ forum, and some post. The forum is attracting a number of 40yo's lately.

Anyway, I will likely remain in disagreement on this issue with the moderators. So be it. All-in-all it is a great forum, and I appreciate all the effort and work of the moderators and of you and Joe.

Have a great day. Thanks for your efforts.

I honestly believe with something as specific as 50+ a whole forum could be dedicated to you. Same with mountain biking and road biking (etc....). I think 'most' of us use other forums to fullfill our immediate concerns. For most of my mtbike needs I read ridemonkey.com Bikeforums is great for diversity but sometime, specifics and expert opinion is best found on forums dedicated to it. I think it would be VERY difficult to create a site very exacting needs of everyone based in such a diverse forum, I couldn't even begin to fathom that many forums and subforums etc...to allow such a number would be almost uncontrollable.

Anyways I have carpal tunel with these last two posts. Glad I could be a little clearer. Maybe it is time to rethink the road forum as we did with the ss/fg/track subforums.

Cheers

Mael

Mael, you know I'm the one who likes to do the long posts. Here you go, showing me up. ;)

But I agree with Mael. The thought of restructuring the forums is going to give me nightmares for the next week or so. I'm going to need my security blanket, and I live in the south, where it's too hot for that sort of thing!

Honestly, I feel that when people spend all their time roaming through one forum all the time, you're definitely going to miss out on the other forums too. It is no wonder someone doesn't recognize everyone in our road biking forum- it's grown by leaps and bounds in the last year alone. On any given day at any given time, we can have at least 350 viewers in that forum alone. No other forum comes close to the road forum. If you don't keep up with the forums, you won't know who the people are within them. As a moderator, I have to spend a lot of time browsing through all the forums, so I'm pretty familiar with most people that post (and some who lurk, since I now take a gander over to the admin side to see who is registering for the forums). I don't think everyone should just roam through the forums as we do, but your caveat is and always will be that if you spend all your time nestled in one forum, realize that while you neglect the other forum, life does go on. Members join. Groups form within forums. New topics spring up. Old topics get put to rest. Etc. The road biking forum is our most active forum, so to expect for nothing to change from month to month or year to year would be unrealistic. If you want to recognize the people within a forum, frequent it more than once every other month.

The road biking forum is already split into different forums. It may sound good in an alternate universe (like a bizarro land of some sort) to further subdivide that forum, but I still think that would be like splitting hairs. I don't see of a way to do it, and I'd be loathe to try. Like Mael said, it would be a scary experience, and I'm not sure any of us are ready to venture into that territory just yet. I think if Joe had a good way of doing it, we could attempt it, but given that the forums are as they are right now, maybe he thinks the setup is the best way it could possibly be as it is. The ss/fg/track was pretty easy to bifurcate. Track was its own entity, and there is a clear difference with riding a velodrome as to riding a fg/ss bike around town. I don't see a clear distinction within the roadie forum that could allow us to pull an entire new forum (or subforum) out of the roadie forum.

I sometimes get the feeling that 50+ people think they have to compete with the younger folks in the roadie forum. I don't think that the road biking forum is like that at all. There's no reason why a 50+ can't enter the road biking forum and participate in threads (any threads). There are legit issues that transcend age, gender, etc., which is why the road biking forum is such a great place to post. To feel intimidated into not posting because you think you are too old is really unnecessary. And to not post because you aren't familiar with the names anymore because you haven't frequented the forum is just a shame. We get new people posting in there all the time, but we still have a large, diverse, consistent group of posters. So don't miss out on a great forum and totally pass it up before you take the time to reacquaint yourself with the forum and the people within who post.

We have an excellent layout as it is right now, and every so often, we become aware of new topics for new forums (ie: folding bikes, alternative bikes, living car free, etc.). As the demand for a specific topic grows and transcends the current forum it's in, we definitely look into giving that topic its own space to grow and turn into its own entity. We'll definitely keep our eyes open, especially now, in light of our marked increase in members and our continued growth.

Koffee

Koffee, thanks for your lengthy response.

Sometimes I think folks put words and thoughts in from mouth that I believed I never expressed, but somehow I come across that way, I guess. I.e.
,


so to expect for nothing to change from month to month or year to year would be unrealistic. If you want to recognize the people within a forum, frequent it more than once every other month.


I don't believe I stated or implied that I expected for nothing to change from month to month or year to year, and guess I wonder where you got that impression?




Honestly, I feel that when people spend all their time roaming through one forum all the time, you're definitely going to miss out on the other forums too

I don't believe I said or implied that, either. I am a frequent reader of, and occasional responder to A&S and T&N, among others.



To feel intimidated into not posting because you think you are too old is really unnecessary


I don't believe I said I was "intimidated." What I said was that I had no interest in the views of a 20 yo on some specific items. I still don't.

Hope that clarifies things a bit.

Thanks for your response.

I'm surprised you all spelt lose correctly...! :D

I honestly believe with something as specific as 50+ a whole forum could be dedicated to you.

I believe it is important for the 50+ forum to be located within the matrix of a broader forum. As I see it, the purposes of the 50+ forum are a bit unique. These include:

1. To assist and encourage folks returning to bicycling in their process of accomplishing that. A phenomena that I have observed is that folks in their teens and 20's may be active in physical activities, but this drops off with kids, careers, mortgages and all the rest of the baggage of "mid-life."

Then, somewhere along the line, they realize that that paunch around the middle got 10 pounds bigger each decade, that it is difficult to walk very far or that that old ten-speed hanging in the garage represents a real challenge. Many folks come to the 50+ forum believing that a 5 or 10 mile ride is nearly impossible.

Through mutual encouragement, through reading the almost 300 stories of other 50+ folks (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=63378), and through the symbiosis of the forum, they are encouraged to get back into the activities of bicycling.

2. To allow 50+ folks the opportunity of sharing concerns and successes that are more unique to 50+rs than to 20+rs. Age does play a factor, bodies do degenerate, what may be a great average speed for a 50+r may be a slow speed for a 20+r. Challenges and concerns do become different for many, kids leave, life changes.

However, please note that there are a number of 50+rs who choose not to participate in the 50+ forum, which is great, as that is what BFN is all about - choices.

3. To let folks in their 20's and 30's and 40's know that we have a LOT of 50+rs who participate in bicycling and some at a pretty high and competitive level - giving them some goals for the future. We do centuries, randonneuring, lead group rides, etc. At one time in BFN, there were a lot of comments about "geezers" and the like. That has pretty much stopped. Folks in the 20's-40's now have a place to go and read about the great exploits of folks in their 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's.

4. And to have a lot of fun.

I feel proud that I have been associated in a small fashion with encouraging many riders back into physical activities after some of them have not done much at all for 20 years or so.

Again, I think it is important that the 50+ group remain in the milieu of a general bicycling forum. It should not be separate, because to do so would make it seem as if 50+ riding was not a part of "real" riding.

Thanks for reading.

I'm surprised you all spelt lose correctly...! :D

Yes, with lose cannons like you around here, it is difficult to loose the importance of this conversation, and I now have to go and do my exercize!

I believe it is important for the 50+ forum to be located within the matrix of a broader forum. As I see it, the purposes of the 50+ forum are a bit unique. These include:

1. To assist and encourage folks returning to bicycling in their process of accomplishing that. A phenomena that I have observed is that folks in their teens and 20's may be active in physical activities, but this drops off with kids, careers, mortgages and all the rest of the baggage of "mid-life."

Then, somewhere along the line, they realize that that paunch around the middle got 10 pounds bigger each decade, that it is difficult to walk very far or that that old ten-speed hanging in the garage represents a real challenge. Many folks come to the 50+ forum believing that a 5 or 10 mile ride is nearly impossible.

Through mutual encouragement, through reading the almost 300 stories of other 50+ folks (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=63378), and through the symbiosis of the forum, they are encouraged to get back into the activities of bicycling.

2. To allow 50+ folks the opportunity of sharing concerns and successes that are more unique to 50+rs than to 20+rs. Age does play a factor, bodies do degenerate, what may be a great average speed for a 50+r may be a slow speed for a 20+r. Challenges and concerns do become different for many, kids leave, life changes.

However, please note that there are a number of 50+rs who choose not to participate in the 50+ forum, which is great, as that is what BFN is all about - choices.

3. To let folks in their 20's and 30's and 40's know that we have a LOT of 50+rs who participate in bicycling and some at a pretty high and competitive level - giving them some goals for the future. We do centuries, randonneuring, lead group rides, etc. At one time in BFN, there were a lot of comments about "geezers" and the like. That has pretty much stopped. Folks in the 20's-40's now have a place to go and read about the great exploits of folks in their 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's.

4. And to have a lot of fun.

I feel proud that I have been associated in a small fashion with encouraging many riders back into physical activities after some of them have not done much at all for 20 years or so.

Again, I think it is important that the 50+ group remain in the milieu of a general bicycling forum. It should not be separate, because to do so would make it seem as if 50+ riding was not a part of "real" riding.

Thanks for reading.

I don't think any of us mods understand what that statement you made is all about. If we thought there was no need for a 50+ forum, there wouldn't be one. It's a bit perplexing to get someone arguing about something that none of us disagree with.

However, when you use that forum as an example of why your forays into the road cycling forum are limited, this is the same example we're going to throw back at you. If you take any of Mael's or my posts and apply it to any newly created forum, it still applies to any of the newer forums created. This statement you just made makes no sense and doesn't really seem to explain what your original point of creating this thread. :-/ Actually, it confuses me a bit more.

Well, the general consenses is that we're probably going to keep bikeforums as it is right now, and not continue to split hairs by further subdividing forums that either can't be subdivided or don't seem to have an identifiable large topic that needs its own subforum or forum.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Koffee

I don't think any of us mods understand what that statement you made is all about. If we thought there was no need for a 50+ forum, there wouldn't be one. It's a bit perplexing to get someone arguing about something that none of us disagree with.

I was responding to Mael's statement that the 50+ forum should be a stand-alone forum separate from any other forum - in other words, not associated with BFN in any way - to wit:



I honestly believe with something as specific as 50+ a whole forum could be dedicated to you. Same with mountain biking and road biking (etc....). I think 'most' of us use other forums to fullfill our immediate concerns. For most of my mtbike needs I read ridemonkey.com Bikeforums is great for diversity but sometime, specifics and expert opinion is best found on forums dedicated to it.

But, you and I have never been able to communicate - somehow we speak a "different" language- I.e:



However, when you use that forum as an example of why your forays into the road cycling forum are limited

Did I do that? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? I THOUGHT I said I limited my forays into the road cycling forum because it was so large, the posts were so frequent, I no longer knew anyone, and the character of the forum had changed. I missed the part about not going into the roadie forums because I participated in the 50+ forum. Point that out to me, please. One more "communication static" I guess!


So I will drop the topic.

Thanks for your thoughts, even thought I haven't much of a clue what you meant! :D :D

Ummmm... I think Mael was saying it could stand alone, but given your lengthy response, it seemed a bit overstated under the circumstances. But then again, I guess we all are taking liberties.

Koffee

I didn't say it should. I love the intermixing. I think you took my statement to far to the left. I was saying that I am sure there is enough information that a whole forum could be dedicated to your groupset. I didn't say it should/could or would happen. Simply that I believe most people have other forums they go to as well. I used ridemonkey as an example. But I bet the ss/fg guys, roadies and bents all have forums SPECIFIC to that entire group that they frequent for more isolated conversation.

Either way my point still holds true. If we allow random conversation throughout the forums because the members think they are specific to the forum then things would become very isolated. I again state, that we do let a lot of things slide but at times move things if it is blatantly 'foo' for example.

And yes sometimes we don't see eye to eye. I think you are very good at looking out for your own group and wanting things for that group. I can't look at this forum (and I assume Joe works this way too) from a single view point (I can't look at it from a specifically mtb view for example). I have to look at the big picture. I think isolating nbr conversations within the forum the member wants, would be a mistake. I would think Joe thinks the same way as those were the rules being enforced before I was even a mod.

As for the other stuff..I have no clue what you guys are talking about, I don't venture into roadie area much :D :p

Maelstrom
Admin

Could - should
Cake - shake
Cape - shape
Can't - shan't
Cards - shards
Call - shall
Came - shame

What difference does a consonant or two make, anyway? :D

I'm a 50-pluser who never ventures into the 50+ forums. I'm much more interested in the mainstream of road cycling and racing, regardless of age. I like things the way they are. In fact. I'd like to to away with both the "ladies-only" and the "50+" sub-forums. I suspect that there are folks who are under 50 who have the same types of cycling problems that folks over 50 have. (of course, I'd never admit it!).

The main thing I'd like to see improved is the "search" function. That, and a section on "What is better? and What should I buy?"

I'm a 50-pluser who never

Pshaw! For shame. Spies know all!

Pshaw! For shame. Spies know all!I plead temporary insanity!