women drivers have got to be the worst - always freeze up when approaching a cyclist

[mac]

Some people just do not know how to drive and most of the issues I've been having have been with women drivers. It seems they are timid and scared when approaching an intersection with a bicyclist and freeze up.

Today I'm riding to work and get into my left lane at the stop light. The light turns green and I slowly pedal out into the middle of the street waiting for the oncoming cars to pass. This women in an oncoming car sees me, then slows down and stops right before the intersection, potentially blocking other cars while the light is still green. What is wrong with her? GO!!! You have the green light!

And a couple of weeks ago I was riding on a residential street and another women was going to make a left turn. She stopped as she saw me coming, but had plenty of time to make the left turn. When I finally get close to the intersection, I guess she realized she had time to make a left then, then darts out and makes the left turn in front of me... but then she stops right in the middle of the intersection blocking all traffic! What the hell? GO!!! Finish making the left turn! I'm guessing she realized she was afraid of hitting me and froze up. I had to slam on the brakes.

And before that I was riding down the street when a woman comes up behind me and then passes me. She then signals to make a left turn. Good, I'll move to her right and pass, but there are parked cars, so I'll wait behind her. The street is empty as she approaches the intersection - plenty of room to make a left turn... But then she slams on the brakes and just stops! What are you doing?? GO!!! Finishing making the turn! I have to slam on my brakes as well. She rolls down her window and yells at me to pass her. I guess she got scared of a bicyclist going nearly as fast as she was.

So what is it with you ladies? Why can't the fairer sex drive correctly?

[townandcountry]

I've had more close calls with male drivers. Stop bashing women drivers. Bad drivers are bad drivers no matter what sex or breed they are.

[mac]

I've had more close calls with male drivers. Stop bashing women drivers. Bad drivers are bad drivers no matter what sex or breed they are.
No, there is a difference between not knowing how to drive (i.e. being scared & timid and potentially causing multiple accidents by freezing up at an intersection) and driving aggressively. I would much rather be on the road with pedal-to-the-metal drivers (which are males since we are aggressive) since we are predictable. The reason I brought this up is because I have never, ever seen a guy just freeze up in the middle of the road when encountering a bicylist. He always drives through normally or floors it. The only time I've had similar experiences with both guys & gals was at stop signs - the "you go, no you go, no why don't you, okay we'll both go" kind of dance. But you're supposed to stop that at intersection so it's a moot issue.

[r0cket-]

Good grief.

[Bikemiker]

No, there is a difference between not knowing how to drive (i.e. being scared & timid and potentially causing multiple accidents by freezing up at an intersection) and driving aggressively.

Maybe, but that difference doesn't have anything to do with gender. I'll have my gf take you for a drive sometime if you don't believe me(or my sister, or my coworker turbo). Or on the other side of the spectrum, my buddy J.J. or my cousin Matt.

[oboeguy]

In before the lock?

Women drivers have a bad rep, yes, but that doesn't mean it's actual fact. A few anecdotes won't convince anyone with a brain. My mother was the best driver I ever met.

That being said there's a pretty funny saying in Spanish about women drivers which I will refrain from posting (keep in mind that "peligro constante" rhymes with "volante" :D). Does it perpetuate the stereotype? Maybe, but it's still funny and could be used to make fun of anyone really.

[mac]

Look, this is the "Advocacy & Safety" forum. I'm posting what I encounter. Surely I'm not the only one who has had people just flat out stop in the intersection creating a hazard for themselves, us, and the other people on the road. In my experiences, they have all been women. Are people afraid to admit this? More importantly, how do you deal with it? Do you ride through? Do you insist that they go? I end up riding through because some of these women become so stubborn and/or scared that they won't move until I'm well out of their path.

[twahl]

Sounds to me like you have a habit of riding out into the middle of intersections when you aren't yet clear to make a left turn. Just my take on what I read, but I hate when I'm driving and some idiot is sitting out in the middle of an intersection waiting for the light to turn red so cross traffic stops so he can make his left. I don't enter the intersection on a "left must yield on green" until I'm clear to go, whether in a car or on a bike.

[mirona]

I don't believe in the "women are bad drivers" thing, but EVERY woman driver I know personally is a terrible driver :D

[konageezer]

Have we established whether these women are fat?

Until we determine that, I don't think we can make any progress.

[skookum]

Good, good we need some more controversy here.

I am tired of lance doping allegations and the subject of drunk messengers, has been exhausted, how about stoned female drivers using performance enhancing drugs?

[mac]

Sounds to me like you have a habit of riding out into the middle of intersections when you aren't yet clear to make a left turn. Just my take on what I read, but I hate when I'm driving and some idiot is sitting out in the middle of an intersection waiting for the light to turn red so cross traffic stops so he can make his left. I don't enter the intersection on a "left must yield on green" until I'm clear to go, whether in a car or on a bike.
Only in the first example was I making a left turn. And you are supposed to pull out into the street when the light turns green. If it isn't safe to make a left while your light is green due to too much traffic, then wait until it turns red then turn left. Since you already in the intersection, it is legal to do so. Now, the schmuck 3 cars behind you who is behind the intersection is not supposed to turn left, but he usually does anyways. In the major cities you almost always cannot make a left on green since there's too much traffic, and not on the yellow because of the light-runners so you can only go on red. I'm not sure how you're driving or where you are driving, but you will never make a left turn here in L.A. if you sit behind the intersection waiting for the oncoming traffic to empty & the light still be green. You might even get shot for holding up traffic! :p

[SandySwimmer]

All of my close calls like that have been with male drivers. I've always assumed it is because the drivers know we are vulnerable on the bike, so they are being extra careful when they see us out there. Also, it has been my observation that every time a car has run a red light or run a stop sign, it has always been a male driver. It never occurred to me to think, 'these male drivers, what's wrong with them."

Sandy

[mac]

All of my close calls like that have been with male drivers. ... it has been my observation that every time a car has run a red light or run a stop sign, it has always been a male driver.
Yeah, but that's predictable behavior. I get buzzed as well buy guys in their SUVs, but we expect it. As for running stop signs - everyone does that. It's the "California Stop." I hardly ever see anyone come to a full and complete stop at a sign. You're ready for these things. But the sudden makes-no-sense-what-are-you-doing-you-have-the-right-of-way is what's tweaking me.

[kwhord]

I'm impressed, really.
If a driver yields their right-of-way to you; consider it a compliment not a sign of weakness. If you have problems with gender, deal with it elswhere.

[Bikemiker]

Only in the first example was I making a left turn. And you are supposed to pull out into the street when the light turns green. If it isn't safe to make a left while your light is green due to too much traffic, then wait until it turns red then turn left. Since you already in the intersection, it is legal to do so. Now, the schmuck 3 cars behind you who is behind the intersection is not supposed to turn left, but he usually does anyways. In the major cities you almost always cannot make a left on green since there's too much traffic, and not on the yellow because of the light-runners so you can only go on red. I'm not sure how you're driving or where you are driving, but you will never make a left turn here in L.A. if you sit behind the intersection waiting for the oncoming traffic to empty & the light still be green. You might even get shot for holding up traffic! :p

Remember, two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.

[LV2TNDM]

Sounds to me like you have a habit of riding out into the middle of intersections when you aren't yet clear to make a left turn. Just my take on what I read, but I hate when I'm driving and some idiot is sitting out in the middle of an intersection waiting for the light to turn red so cross traffic stops so he can make his left. I don't enter the intersection on a "left must yield on green" until I'm clear to go, whether in a car or on a bike.
Left turns "yielding" doesn't preclude drivers from moving into the intersection to wait for a break in oncoming traffic. Where I live if one drove like that, he'd never make a left turn. CA vehicle code states that one may only proceed through a green light when safe to do so. If opposing traffic is waiting to turn left when the light changes, THEY have the right of way to proceed before opposing traffic. I'd guess if you live in an urban area, you get honked at a lot.
Also, it's illegal to ENTER an intersection when the light is red, not be there already. Not to say I'm advocating blocking busy intersections, which I see all the time in the Bay Area. One can make left turns and avoid this if one is cogniscent of traffic flow.

[Treespeed]

I'm impressed, really.
If a driver yields their right-of-way to you; consider it a compliment not a sign of weakness. If you have problems with gender, deal with it elswhere.

I know people mean well, regardless of gender when they yield the right of way, but it's just wrong. Because there is no way to tell that is what they are doing. Are they spacing out, on the phone, having a stroke, or being indecisive. There is no way for someone to signal they are yielding the right of way and I just don't trust people. While I don't agree with the gender aspect of the argument, I cannot stand indecisive drivers. If you don't know where you are going pull over, but if you're driving go. Especially in a city like Los Angeles, people just don't understand how bad the left turn issue is in this city.

And on a similar track how is it someone can afford a $50k Mercedes or Land Rover and not a freakin' hands free phone setup. Dang, I have an earplug/mic combo that cost me $15! And what on earth are these people talking about? It used to be you'd make a handful of calls a day from home and return a few voice mails, now it's like everyone's turned into a bunch of junior high school girls with one hand on the phone the other holding their latte.

[hubcap]

It's not the overly-cautious woman driver who has frozen up at your presence that is going to squish you, it's the overly-aggressive male driver that floors it around her since he doesn't know why she has stopped and is pissed that is going to wipe you out.

The overly-cautious drivers are annoying. The overly-aggressive ones are dangerous.

[jbonus]

I've noticed that male drivers tend to speed up or get aggressive around cyclists. Must be penis envy.

[phinney]

Mac, same thing happened to me on the tandem just two days ago. Crossing a busy road on the tandem with a female driver (in a jacked suburban!) waiting to turn left on the other side. It's a wide road and with the kids in tow I like a pretty good window to make that crossing. When an opening came up at first she started to go, then she didn't and tried to wave me through, then she did, then she didn't, then the opening was gone. Really, it is a gender characteristic and I see it all the time.

Of course so many people now are brainwashed blind by political correctness they can't imagine there is any difference between males and females or anything else for that matter. Thanks for braving the PC police and posting your honest observation.

[As You Like It]

:rolleyes:
Oh noes!11!!!!!11Eleventy-one. I'm such a Dangerous Woman Driver!!! Alert the authorities, somebody dares to have XY chromosomes and occasionally drives. "Men" like you make me physically sick. If you think for one moment that being cocky and having a schlong automatically confers driving supremacy upon you, then there's no hope for you. A lot of the most wild, aggressive, and utterly inattentive driving I've observed was done by men. Hot-rodding, tailgating, chop-changing, tire-squealing testosterone-crazed fools.

Look, the kinds of things I want to say right now would get me banned from this board for profanity, but I'm freely willing to let you eat off of my clean driving record. Never in my licensed life, from age 16 to 28, have I ever had a speeding ticket, wreck, or even a little parking-lot fender bender. Why do you think insurance rates are lower for women? Because women tend to drive more cautiously and have fewer wrecks. Maybe because we're not out there trying to overcompensate for other things... :rolleyes:

Next time you get stuck like this, wave the other person through, the bust butt to get through yourself, and save your sexist whining for another day.

[rich007]

And on a similar track how is it someone can afford a $50k Mercedes or Land Rover and not a freakin' hands free phone setup. Dang, I have an earplug/mic combo that cost me $15! And what on earth are these people talking about? It used to be you'd make a handful of calls a day from home and return a few voice mails, now it's like everyone's turned into a bunch of junior high school girls with one hand on the phone the other holding their latte.

So freaking true!!!

On a similar note, the same s**t happens when I'm on a bike after 5-6pm in the city... Hordes of people leave their office desks and start 'mad rush' to nearest subway (or bus) stations, and half of them glued to their cell-phones, completely ignoring what's going on around them...

[mac]

Why do you think insurance rates are lower for women? Because women tend to drive more cautiously and have fewer wrecks.
And there it is. Thank you for confirming my initial observations about your fairer six. "Tend to drive more cautiously" does NOT mean drives safely. That was my point. Stopping at the intersection when you have the green light because a bicyclist is in the oncoming left-turn lane may be very cautious, but it's dangerous. Stopping in the middle of the intersection while making a left turn because you want to make extra-sure you didn't hit that oncoming bicyclist may be cautious, but it's dangerous. Stopping in the middle of the street instead of following through and making your left turn because a bicyclist is riding almost as fast as you are and you want to make sure there's no way you're going to turn into him may be cautious, but it's also dangerous.

Now, pedal-to-the-metal accidents are more expensive since the collision speeds are higher and there's usually more damage done to move vehicles.

[mac]

Oh, I forgot one. Here's where I almost got killed last week from a woman driver who darted out from a parking lot trying to make a left turn and got broadsided by a pickup truck causing it to fly out into my lane.

I almost got injured/killed today by accident on OTHER side of highway! (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=131915)

And numerous other times I've had vehicles driven by women gabbing away with their passenger just pull out of mall parking lots and nearly hit me.

These have been my experiences and observations. Your mileage may vary.

[Keith99]

Sounds to me like you have a habit of riding out into the middle of intersections when you aren't yet clear to make a left turn. Just my take on what I read, but I hate when I'm driving and some idiot is sitting out in the middle of an intersection waiting for the light to turn red so cross traffic stops so he can make his left. I don't enter the intersection on a "left must yield on green" until I'm clear to go, whether in a car or on a bike.

If people did what you do in Los Angeles there would be gridlock. Doing this would mean no left turns at many intersections, at least during daylight hours.

[Treespeed]

And there it is. Thank you for confirming my initial observations about your fairer six. "Tend to drive more cautiously" does NOT mean drives safely. That was my point. Stopping at the intersection when you have the green light because a bicyclist is in the oncoming left-turn lane may be very cautious, but it's dangerous. Stopping in the middle of the intersection while making a left turn because you want to make extra-sure you didn't hit that oncoming bicyclist may be cautious, but it's dangerous. Stopping in the middle of the street instead of following through and making your left turn because a bicyclist is riding almost as fast as you are and you want to make sure there's no way you're going to turn into him may be cautious, but it's also dangerous.

Now, pedal-to-the-metal accidents are more expensive since the collision speeds are higher and there's usually more damage done to move vehicles.

Mac,

stopping and being extra cautious is not dangerous, it's annoying and inconvenient but only dangerous if someone around you is driving like a jack *****. So you had to hit your brakes, so what? Now someone launching out of a driveway is definitely not just a gender thing in LA, nor is the indecisive driver. There are plenty of men and women of all ages and sizes that drive with their heads up their butt. I would rather have decisive drivers, but I'd also prefer cautious drivers as opposed to the Nascar rookies that think Suburbans are performance vehichles that populate my commute through South Central.

[Treespeed]

If people did what you do in Los Angeles there would be gridlock. Doing this would mean no left turns at many intersections, at least during daylight hours.

Thankfully most people figure out the Los Angeles left turn, though would it kill the city to put in a few left turn signals.

[mac]

Thankfully most people figure out the Los Angeles left turn, though would it kill the city to put in a few left turn signals.
I thought that's how you make a left turn anywhere in the U.S. On business trips to other major cities, I think I've observed the same. Or at least that's how I drove the rental car. I have never heard of the concept of staying behind the intersection at a green light waiting for oncoming cars to clear before you turn.

[mac]

stopping and being extra cautious is not dangerous, it's annoying and inconvenient but only dangerous if someone around you is driving like a jack *****.
I disagree. Doing something against traffic laws is dangerous.

If everyone is expecting you to continue at your speed when approaching a green light, then you slow down and stop because an oncoming bicylist wants to make left turn, you would cause an accident.

If you are stopped at an intersection trying to make a left turn and waiting for a bicycle to pass, then decide to dart through and stop in the middle of the street, you could cause an accident.

If you are signalling to make a left turn and have the right-of-way (i.e. no stop sign), then just stop in the middle of the street, you could cause an accident.

All three cases of accidents can be avoided by following the traffic laws and not being "extra cautious." We've all seen grandma & grandpa behind the steering wheel driving < 20 mph because they are "extra cautious." That doesn't mean they are driving safely and not endangering themselves and others around them.

[Treespeed]

I thought that's how you make a left turn anywhere in the U.S. On business trips to other major cities, I think I've observed the same. Or at least that's how I drove the rental car. I have never heard of the concept of staying behind the intersection at a green light waiting for oncoming cars to clear before you turn.

Not to go into too much of a tangent, but I think on some of the busier intersections (San Vicente & La Brea comes to mind) experienced and motivated drivers can squeeze three cars through a yellow. I would bet that other aggresive urban burgs (DC, Boston, etc.) do the same. But back in polite Seattle you'd be hard pressed to get the 2nd car in line to motivate even while the light is still yellow, some hippies have all the time in the world. Yes, I realize I'm contradicting myself, but these folks are just unmotivated and not at all cautious.

[webist]

I've noticed that male drivers tend to speed up or get aggressive around cyclists. Must be penis envy.

Particularly when they are around female cyclists :lol:

The OP is right though. I rode 16 miles on the shoulder of a 4-lane, divided highway this morning. Seemed like every 3d or 4th car moving in either direction screeched to an emergency stop when it neared me. Sure enough, each was driven by a frozen female! ;)

[mac]

Not to go into too much of a tangent, but I think on some of the busier intersections (San Vicente & La Brea comes to mind) experienced and motivated drivers can squeeze three cars through a yellow. I would bet that other aggresive urban burgs (DC, Boston, etc.) do the same.
On some Wilshire Blvd intersections where you have long wait times I see 3 cars go through a red and the 3rd one is all the way behind the intersection. It takes motivation to run the red especially when other highly motivated cross-traffic drivers are already entering the intersection once the light turns green.

[phinney]

I'm freely willing to let you eat off of my clean driving record. Never in my licensed life, from age 16 to 28, have I ever had a speeding ticket, wreck, or even a little parking-lot fender bender. Why do you think insurance rates are lower for women? Because women tend to drive more cautiously and have fewer wrecks.

There's a big difference between having the accident and causing the accident. Overly cautious driving like yielding the right of way when you're not supposed to creates a chaotic situation. My wife has never had an accident either...

Here's another though not cycling related thing to watch for. Anytime you're following a woman driver on an on-ramp NEVER take your eyes off of her car and give her lots and lots of room. I don't know how many times I've been in this situation and after accelerating most of the way down the ramp they decide there isn't enough room to merge onto the highway (when there is plenty) and SLAM ON THEIR BRAKES!!! Of course they do this just when the driver behind them would be looking back at the highway to see where he is going to merge. I've seen maybe three hard collisions because of this but always look for it when there's a woman driver in front of me and that has saved me so far. I barely avoided a collision the first time it happened and luckily the car behind me just barely managed to stop in time too. That was a long time ago and since then I always watch closely and NEVER have I seen a male driver pull this one.

[bac]

Okay people, there ARE differences between men, and women; however, I don’t know that these difference equate into better, or worse drivers. Men, in general, are more aggressive thanks to testosterone. Women, conversely (again, IN GENERAL) are more timid. However, I’ve damn near been killed by both sexes. I can’t say that there’s an appreciable difference between the sexes when in comes to taking me out.

I’ve been buzzed by redneck men, and I’ve been almost struck by cell phone wielding women, but in the end, the “why” part is irrelevant. The point I’m attempting to make (quite poorly, if I may add) is that MOST DRIVERS SUCK regardless as to their sex!

Get over it, already. :)

[wsexson]

That may well be a smart and safe way to do make a yeild on green left turn, but that is not the way it is done in California. The lead vehivle in the left most lane pulls as far into the intersection as the safely can, then proceeds when the path is clear. You wouldn't ever get to make a left turn during rush hour in the Los Angeles area with your method, you would be endlessly waiting behind the crosswalk.

[askrom]

Males are far more likely to get in car accidents then females. It's a fact (backed up by tons of studies by the insurance industry). It's more typically young males (who, honestly, shouldn't be allowed to drive), but the difference persists. Accidents involving men are more severe, more likely to be fatal. There are tons of studies that show that the differences range from negligible to strongly in favor of women drivers. Your assessment of the situation is just plain wrong.

As far as "aggressiveness" being "predictable", well, I don't see it that way. I'm speaking anecdotally here (as you've been), but it seems to me that males are more likely to break really important traffic laws like going through red lights and stop signs, passing on the right, tailgating, etc. I don't see what's predictable about any violation of traffic laws, and it's absurd of you to argue that aggressive traffic law violations are somehow less dangerous then passive or dumb driving mistakes.

I think that you just want to beleive that women are bad drivers, even though there isn't enough evidence for it, so you see evidence in favor of your bias everywhere you go and you ignore evidence to the contrary. Every time you see a driver do something bad, you check the driver's gender. If it's a woman, you feel great, justified in your opinion that women can't drive. If it's a man, you let it slide and are more likely to just plain forget about it. Basically you're a sexist.

Your story of the accident on the other side of the highway is a case in point: You yourself said that traffic coming down the hill was largely exceeding the speed limit. And you also admit that the screeching of tires is what caught your attention. You even admit that the accident occurred behind you. Dude, think about it. You didn't even see the accident!! Yet you immediately jumped to the assumption that the woman who pulled out of the parking lot didn't look and that somehow the accident was her fault. Did it occur to you that the truck driver might have been going 70 mph, or that he might have changed lanes suddenly? You have no idea what happened.

Maybe it's time for you to think about why you're such a sexist.

[sbhikes]

Screen name: mac (like the truck?)
Avatar: big, tough motorcycle
Little saying: red dot in a blue sea (translation: rugged individual)

So many drivers suck in so many different ways, so why focus on gender as the main factor in all this suckiness unless there was something about your personality that made you do so?

[Dchiefransom]

Sounds to me like you have a habit of riding out into the middle of intersections when you aren't yet clear to make a left turn. Just my take on what I read, but I hate when I'm driving and some idiot is sitting out in the middle of an intersection waiting for the light to turn red so cross traffic stops so he can make his left. I don't enter the intersection on a "left must yield on green" until I'm clear to go, whether in a car or on a bike.

According to my driver training, that's what a person waiting to make a left turn is supposed to do. You're not blocking anyone going straight through. Any vehicle not in the intersection when the light turns yellow must wait for the next green light.
There's lots of people that freeze up around here. Remember, driving is a hand to eye coordination task. They give drivers licenses to all those people that were chosen last in gym class, after a minimal skills test.

[DCCommuter]

This reminds me so much of the anti-bike letters to the editor that small town newspapers love so much. You know, the ones who rant about how dangerous cyclists are, because they "force" motorists to pass on blind curves and to screech into panic stops to avoid hitting them. Yes, anyone slower than you is a danger if you can't control your vehicle.

[Lord Chambers]

I was on a four lane road without a turn lane, and had a mini-van mommy in the oncoming lane closest to me stop at the site of my turn signal. She forced me to make a decision between making the traffice behind me stop while I convinced her to, yes, slowly, press on the accelerator and keep going, or make the turn and hope the cars in the farthest lane didn't hit me since their view of traffic was then obstructed.

My understanding of cyclist injuries is that they're primarily from the flagrant law violations, or drivers not seeing you, but my experience so far has had ONLY women creating dangerous situations on the road by being insecure.

Incidentally, the only woman driver I know who doesn't seem insecure and unable while driving is one who was very gifted with mathmatics. Its probably a spacial intelligence thing.

[twahl]

According to my driver training, that's what a person waiting to make a left turn is supposed to do.

Sounds like that's what is taught in California. I'm not saying that I don't see people do it often, but that's not what I was taught. Most intersections of any significance around here do have a left turn arrow which usually goes first, before the straight, then the left turners have to yield of green after the arrow.

I'm sorry, but on a bike or in a car, the middle of an intersection is not where I want to be sitting still. Legal or not, I'm not sitting out there.

[my58vw]

Ok my turn...

Here is where the gender issue comes in... and I can almost be considered an expert here, I have as much female brain wise as male so I see things both ways (a side effect of Kallmann's not the point here).

One defining characteristic of the female brain is their indecision and group collaboration. This also stretches into cooperation (and thus the stop sign dead lock), and lack of direction corrilation. Gender is a continium, stretching form the femine females to the masculine females to the feminine males and the masculine males and everything inbetween.

For example my mom is the worst for directions, she has been known to circle a city block three of four times before getting to the right place. She is also known for the "bicycle rider stopping" actions. If you look at me if I have a reference and think turn by turn I have good directions. I have a hard time riding in groups on new routes if they ride slow and I get infront, usually I will either get lost or miss a turn. I personally show my indecision when dealing with other people. I am uncharacteristically collaborative, and I do not work well with guys at all. It takes a long time for me to make a decision and I am not assertive at all.

You say that most drivers are agressive and buzz cyclists. Well that is not a "male" trait but a "masculine" trait. Personally I drive VERY fast (I used to race cars) but I know women that would put my speed to shame, i.e. my best friends mom... being in a car with her driving at 150 MPH is a little scary!

Stereotypes work about 2 percent of the time, but we can define traits based of characteristics that people who think a certain way act. Saying that women are indecisive is as bad as asians drive only hondas. Saying that someone who is "feminine" or is displaying a femine charactistic is not a stereotype but a statement based on a definition.

That is all,

BTW I have had more close calls with people on a cell phone that any other driver... male or female.

[filtersweep]

If that is what you believe, your brain will filter out all conflicting data to prove yourself correct again and again... it is really quite sad, actually.

I really believe white people are the worst drivers around here. Blacks drive like they want to be invisible from cops- don't want to get pulled over, and are never in a hurry... same with Mexicans. Asians are slow, but safe... but white people? They are the worst.

I've NEVER been harrassed by anyone on the road other than white people. I hate them.

[Azle]

"I've NEVER been harrassed by anyone on the road other than white people. I hate them."
A very small mind thinks very small thoughts. I don't even Know you but you hate me. have fun in Norway and take you small minded anger with you and stay there.

[dwightonabike]

Its true that men have many more collisions in the US than women. Anyone have any data on how many more miles men drive per year than women? Most of the time I see mixed genders in cars, the men are driving.

Professional race car drivers are considered some of the "Best" drivers around. Yet they have more accidents per mile (while racing) than any other group. Their aggressive tactics lead to this. It does not mean they are worse drivers.

To deny that there are mental and physical differences (on average) between the sexes is to be wilfully blind. In general, men are more aggressive, have better spatial awareness (great for fighting, hunting... and driving), women are better communitcators, have higher pain tolerances, and are more intuitive and caring. This does not go to say how any one individual will fare, just averages.

So in the end, why does it matter? You can usually only tell someone's gender after they have almost killed you. Are you going to try to note the gender of all of the drivers around you and perform a risk analysis based on gender, car model and color, estimated speed and position in traffic for every car you encounter? Its the car you have to watch out for, and the most innocent-looking driver can kill you without you ever seeing it.

How does this help? Are you proposing more education for women drivers? Maybe we should ban them from the road! That's ridiculous. We should just ban everyone from the road for any repeat moving violation. Then they'd be out there on bikes with us!

[konageezer]

"I've NEVER been harrassed by anyone on the road other than white people. I hate them."
A very small mind thinks very small thoughts. I don't even Know you but you hate me. have fun in Norway and take you small minded anger with you and stay there.

I think filtersweep was making a point about the gross generalizations we keep seeing on the forum. (that'd be "irony") While I don't hate myself and other white people, I am forced to concede that most of my bad encounters were with white drivers. (I didn't keep a record of how many of them were fat.) As much a statement of fact, however pointless and irrelevant, as the other generalizations here.

[SandySwimmer]

Perhaps it's like A Modest Proposal? He was also considered outrageaous, but was making a point using irony. I hope it's irony. Otherwise, I'm tempted to start quoting Ghandi or MLK . . . or bring in some Emerson.

This thread has me thinking. I posted the other day that my close calls have been with men running stop signs (which is true), but that happens when I am in a car also. I suddenly remembered the only time I was actually hit by a car was when I was a runner and a soccer mom who was in a hurry was speeding through a stop sign. She stopped to help me, etc. but had two screaming babies in her car and was very distracted because she was rushing to a hospital. So, perhaps it's a human problem of attention and distraction. So much going on with drivers. We never know. Now, I assume they are all like the soccer mom with an emergency.

Since I've been biking, I have actually found drivers to be more curteous with me on a bike than they are with me in a car or as a runner. It might be my blinking lights and reflective vest. Maybe it''s because I'm now one of them, but they respect the vulnerability of a cyclist. I am very cautious though and tend to wave and say thanks when they give me my right of way.

Sandy

[Treespeed]

OBSERVATIONAL SELECTION or COUNTING THE HITS AND IGNORING THE MISSES

Example: A politician says he should be reelected because of a, b, c, and d that were accomplished during his administration, but neglects to mention w, x, y, and z which were negative things that also occurred.

Or all the accidents I've seen have been caused by women, so women are dangerous drivers.

[wabbit]

In my family, my father was and is a terrible driver, my mother was a good driver. My sister and I are good drivers (although I don't have a car these days).

Also terrible- my former father in law. He was the worst.