Living Car Free - bike friendly places

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tahoegramps
09-03-05, 02:23 PM
Does anyone have info on the most bike friendly states, cities, and or countries? I am looking for a bike friendly atmosphere to move to...
So many... I guess it would depend on what your financial resources are like. I live here in Arlington, VA, but it's not cheap. Still, it's very bike friendly here. I lived in Chicago, where they said the mayor was an "avid cyclist" (though I never saw him riding, he only takes spinning classes at his club) and an advocate for cycling in Chicago, but it is nothing compared to what they have here in Virginia/WashDC/MD.
Koffee
I have generally been treated well by the lovely cagers of Lansing, MI. We don't have many bike lanes, so that is a benefit in my opinion. We have a scenic Rivertrail, and the open countryside is easy to get to if you want to do some fast road riding. There are a couple MTB trails that are well-liked. The climate is very varied, another benefit in my book. It's a big enough city, but not too scary big. There is a large cycling club that runs the DALMAC ride every year, and 3 or 4 LBS's.
outashape
09-03-05, 06:10 PM
Roody, I didn't sign up early enough for the DALMAC, quint century ride that is going on right now. I was going to get a copy from a fellow club member and have someone drive me to Lansing and then cycle to Mackinaw and take the $39 Greyhound/Indian Trials bus back to Howell. I've read elsewhere where you have taken the bus up north to visit family. Did you ever take your bike?
Roody, I didn't sign up early enough for the DALMAC, quint century ride that is going on right now. I was going to get a copy from a fellow club member and have someone drive me to Lansing and then cycle to Mackinaw and take the $39 Greyhound/Indian Trials bus back to Howell. I've read elsewhere where you have taken the bus up north to visit family. Did you ever take your bike?No, never. It is my understanding that bikes must be in a hard case or box for Greyhound. You might want to check with them; also Indian Trails might have different regs.
My monthly trips to Traverse City always used to be a forced vacation from the bike, a chance to cross train and avoid overtraining. But my sister gave me her old road bike, so I don't get that vacation any more. Oh well. :D But I probably won't ride there much in the winter, although I ride all year here in Lansing.
Back on topic: I have to nominate Traverse City, MI as a great bike area too. They are currently paving long multi-use trails that go through beautiful countryside. The 2 lane country roads can't be beat for road riding and touring. The VASA trail, set up by the Swedish king for cross country skiing, is also considered one of the primo MTB trails in the country. There are a lot of commuters going to work in their nice office clothes, something I rarely see here in Lansing.
Really, I think most will agree: The best place to ride your bike is where you are right now! Still, a good idea for a thread, tahoegramps.
R1000si
09-03-05, 08:10 PM
Tucson, Arizona is very nice. There is no off season and by law any road that is being constructed must have a bike lane.
In their November issue, Bicycling Magazine announced this year's list of Best Cycling Cities. Begun in the early 1980s, the listing looks at a variety of factors including bicycling infrastructure, supportive local government, active cycling advocacy groups, bicycling culture, and more.
Best Overall City: Portland, OR:
http://www.trans.ci.portland.or.us/Traffic_Management/Bicycle_Program/
Cities with a population over 1 million
1. Montreal: http://www.velo.qc.ca/velo_quebec/
2. Chicago: http://www.ci.chi.il.us/Transportation/Bikes/bicycle.htm
3 San Diego: http://www.sandag.cog.ca.us/sdmts/bicycle.html
Cities with a population between 500,000 and 1 million
1. Seattle: http://www.ci.seattle.wa.us/td/bicycle.asp
2. Austin: http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/bicycle/
3. San Francisco: http://www.ci.sf.ca.us/dpt/regs/map5.htm
Cities with a population between 200,000 and 500,000
1. Denver: http://198.202.202.66/dephome.asp?depid=598
2. Madison: http://www.ci.madison.wi.us/transp/bicycle.html
3. Tucson: http://www.pagnet.org/TPD/IMSP/bicycle.html
77Univega
09-03-05, 11:37 PM
I am looking for a bike friendly atmosphere to move to... --- Smaller college towns in California to consider include Palo Alto, Davis and Arcata.
Don't move to Honolulu, Hawaii. At least not for a few more years. I know it's counter intuitive, as our weather is awesome. But the roads suck, the drivers are provincial, and the laws are just about as draconian as you can get in the US.
Especially don't move to Waikiki.
Here's an absurd law: You can't ride with a trailer in Waikiki, at all. So no BOBs, no extracycles, not even a trailer for your kid. I wondered about the extracycle, but the way the law's worded, you can't have anything "attached" to a bike. It's a shame, cause Hawaii would be such a tremendously wonderful place to ride.
What are the constituents or characteristics of a bike friendly city?
kurtarndorfer
09-05-05, 12:05 AM
I live in Portland, OR and moved from Chicago. Don't believe the hype, Chicago is NOT bike friendly. In Portland every bus has a bike rack on it, and the light rail has places on every car to hang your bike. There are bike lanes on all major roads, and a law that gives bicycles the right to an entire lane if there is no bike lane. The city is required to spend a certain percentage of the road budget for bike lanes and mass transit. Most important though is that drivers are respectful of bicycles. There are bikes everywhere here since Portland is one of the greenest and most progressive cities in America. Seriously, you can't walk out the door without tripping over 5 bicyclists.
SW Ohio. Lots of trails and riders around. Bike freindly motorists as well.
I live in Portland, OR and moved from Chicago. Don't believe the hype, Chicago is NOT bike friendly. In Portland every bus has a bike rack on it, and the light rail has places on every car to hang your bike. There are bike lanes on all major roads, and a law that gives bicycles the right to an entire lane if there is no bike lane. The city is required to spend a certain percentage of the road budget for bike lanes and mass transit. Most important though is that drivers are respectful of bicycles. There are bikes everywhere here since Portland is one of the greenest and most progressive cities in America. Seriously, you can't walk out the door without tripping over 5 bicyclists.
Can I get a witness!
Amen about Chicago- I actually am unlearning some of the stuff I had to do when I was in Chicago, because here in VA/MD/DC, traffic is so much more friendly and aware that I have problems believing/dealing with traffic when they do stuff like wait for you to pass before turning, yielding to cyclists, looking before opening doors, etc. I rode in Chicago a couple of weeks ago, and I felt combative and angry... and I was very glad to get back to Virginia so I could ride in peace with the traffic. Not to say every car here wants to kiss my butt, but (no pun intended), the majority of traffic is very respectful of cyclists.
Koffee
Boudicca
09-05-05, 12:56 PM
Germany!
Another vote for Germany. Or Holland, Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, anywhere else in Scandinavia. They have bike paths along rivers or running parallel to the main roads, you can take your bike on many, many trains (sometimes you have to book this one in advance) and go on long country cruises on bike trails, or on almost empty roads, and there are cafes/restaurants/hotels all over the place for when you get tired and need to stop. And the cities have bike lanes too - real wide bike lanes which are usually separated from traffic by railings or raised kerbs so cars can't park there. Apartment buildings have a dedicated room to store your bike. Need I go on?
jenmarsh
09-07-05, 09:38 AM
Cities with a population between 200,000 and 500,000
1. Denver: http://198.202.202.66/dephome.asp?depid=598
2. Madison: http://www.ci.madison.wi.us/transp/bicycle.html
3. Tucson: http://www.pagnet.org/TPD/IMSP/bicycle.html
Oooh, I am so excited to see this. Currently, I live in Houston and I don't think they're very bike friendly. I am giving up my car this week (donating it, hopefully someone from the Katrina disaster will benefit) and I just got my bike on Sunday. I've ridden it to the grocery store once and it was quite scary, I just don't trust the drivers.
Either way, my excitement stems from the fact that I've been wanting to move to Denver for the past four months. Every single time I hear something about that city, it is a good thing. To have it be one of the more cycle-friendly cities just fortifies my move even more.
I was in Montreal for the Labor day weekend.....and let me tell you, the part of town I was in (downtown) is very very cyclist friendly. Everyone seems to be riding and the drivers there seem to respect cyclists more (than NYC). There are bike racks EVERYWHERE! I actually have lots of pictures of bikes, I'll post up some of the bike racks that I came across. There aren't a lot of new bikes.....mostly 80s & early 90s. I did get to chat with a few roadies and they seem cool.
We decided to rent bikes to ride around town for a day.....it was so much damn fun (my friends haven't been on bikes since they were kids). We rode around the city, we rode on a University campus, we rode to the casino, and we rode out to two islands (outside Montreal) and got lost. Lots of fun......touring by bike is awesome.....we only had one minor mishap (major to them). My friend had a flat and NOBODY knew what to do.....luckily I asked for a patch kit, frame pump, extra tube & iron levers when we rented.....or else we would have be screwed. Of course they didn't know I had the tools. It was getting dark and we were miles away from the City. They started freaking out. I let them squarm a little before fixing the flat. All I know is that I had lots of free drinks and dances that night.
After our trip, my friends are *thinking* about buying bikes and riding for fun. Yeah!
BenyBen
09-07-05, 10:19 AM
Cadd, glad you liked my city. Not the entire island is bike friendly though, there's some places that have very limited access due to highways barring the way. Downtown is pretty cool though.
Just FYI, this subject as been discussed on several other threads. Try a search like "most bike friendly cities", and you should get several threads. It's just good to avoid redundancy.
Just FYI, this subject as been discussed on several other threads. Try a search like "most bike friendly cities", and you should get several threads. It's just good to avoid redundancy.
OTOH, there's a lot of new faces around here all the time, and many like to get in on the action, rather than just reading old threads. This kind of thread is for people to express their opinions and viewpoints, rather than a "how-to" or fact based thread. For the latter, I agree that it's a good idea to search before you start a new thread. :)
KristenGilbert
09-07-05, 04:27 PM
I live in Berkeley and it's very bike friendly here. I hear SF is great for that as well.
tahoegramps
09-09-05, 08:41 PM
Really, I think most will agree: The best place to ride your bike is where you are right now! Still, a good idea for a thread, tahoegramps.
Thank You,
carless
09-10-05, 11:11 PM
Details, details, what are you really looking for? What kind of work/ retirement do you want to do? Lot's of possibilities and loads of cyclist all over the world use this forum. Let's see a list of climate, language, proximity to family, taxes, what's important?
palmertires
09-17-05, 08:40 AM
Can I get a witness!
Amen about Chicago- I actually am unlearning some of the stuff I had to do when I was in Chicago, because here in VA/MD/DC, traffic is so much more friendly and aware that I have problems believing/dealing with traffic when they do stuff like wait for you to pass before turning, yielding to cyclists, looking before opening doors, etc. I rode in Chicago a couple of weeks ago, and I felt combative and angry... and I was very glad to get back to Virginia so I could ride in peace with the traffic. Not to say every car here wants to kiss my butt, but (no pun intended), the majority of traffic is very respectful of cyclists.
Koffee
That's interesting...the feeling of being combative and angry when you road here. Just this past week, when I would get home from work, I would be thinking how negative my rides have been. Drivers honking, yelling, being pushy with their cars when there is no good reason for any of that behavior (me responding with more aggressive bicycling than I prefer to do). I think I am going to move to Portland, OR.
tahoegramps
09-18-05, 11:11 AM
Tucson, Arizona is very nice. There is no off season and by law any road that is being constructed must have a bike lane.
In their November issue, Bicycling Magazine announced this year's list of Best Cycling Cities. Begun in the early 1980s, the listing looks at a variety of factors including bicycling infrastructure, supportive local government, active cycling advocacy groups, bicycling culture, and more.
Best Overall City: Portland, OR:
http://www.trans.ci.portland.or.us/Traffic_Management/Bicycle_Program/
Cities with a population over 1 million
1. Montreal: http://www.velo.qc.ca/velo_quebec/
2. Chicago: http://www.ci.chi.il.us/Transportation/Bikes/bicycle.htm
3 San Diego: http://www.sandag.cog.ca.us/sdmts/bicycle.html
Cities with a population between 500,000 and 1 million
1. Seattle: http://www.ci.seattle.wa.us/td/bicycle.asp
2. Austin: http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/bicycle/
3. San Francisco: http://www.ci.sf.ca.us/dpt/regs/map5.htm
Cities with a population between 200,000 and 500,000
1. Denver: http://198.202.202.66/dephome.asp?depid=598
2. Madison: http://www.ci.madison.wi.us/transp/bicycle.html
3. Tucson: http://www.pagnet.org/TPD/IMSP/bicycle.html
Thank YOU!!!
Does anyone have info on the most bike friendly states, cities, and or countries? I am looking for a bike friendly atmosphere to move to...
Gramps, are you actually from Tahoe? Davis, just the other side of Sacramento from Tahoe, is a very bike friendly city.
Mtn Mike
09-19-05, 09:44 PM
So many... I guess it would depend on what your financial resources are like. I live here in Arlington, VA, but it's not cheap. Still, it's very bike friendly here. I lived in Chicago, where they said the mayor was an "avid cyclist" (though I never saw him riding, he only takes spinning classes at his club) and an advocate for cycling in Chicago, but it is nothing compared to what they have here in Virginia/WashDC/MD.
Koffee
I am enjoying reading the discussion about the bike friendliness of Chicago vs. D.C. vs. anywhere else. I spent my first 22 years in the D.C. area, followed by 4 years of grad school in Chicago. Having biked many miles in both cities, I can offer my perspective. IMHO, neither city had much decent riding.
Chicago: Lot's of bikers, lots of cars, sharing the same roads. I found that the cars were pretty used to seeing cyclists on the roads. Cars were no more rude to cyclists than they were to pedestrians or other cars. In general, Chicagoans are a-holes (when behind the wheel), but have no particular problem with cyclists as a group. Chicago has no practically no useful bike paths because, although paths are plentiful, they are all by the lake, and are horded by walkers or other slow recreationalists.
D.C. Metro area: Lot's of bikers, lot's of cars. But bikers better stay the hell of the roads if they want to stay alive. When I lived there, and when I'm home visiting family, I am continually amazed at the lack of respect for cyclists on the open road. Northern Virginia and DC have extensive networks of bike trails. The trails are good if they take you where you want to go. Drivers in D.C. are maniacs, and will run over anybody who gets in the way.
Spokane:: Small city. Not too much automobile traffic. There are very few bike lanes here, but usually it's pretty safe to ride on the normal city streets. Drivers are fairly used to seeing cyclists on the roads and are generally curteous, especially if the cyclist don't slow down traffic. I can ride from my house on the northwest side of town and do a 100+ mile ride on open country roads without hitting a single traffic light. Now this is a great place to bike! To be car free? I don't know about that one....
Dahon.Steve
09-20-05, 01:43 PM
I was in Montreal for the Labor day weekend.....and let me tell you, the part of town I was in (downtown) is very very cyclist friendly. Everyone seems to be riding and the drivers there seem to respect cyclists more (than NYC).
More than New York City????
Other than the West Side bike/people/roller skater path, New York City is very cycle unfriendly. The only time it's wonderful is 6:00 o'clock on a Sunday morning.
Dahon.Steve-
I've never actually ridden a bike in NYC (i've walked, briefly driven, and ridden on the subway) but I imagine I would disagree with you about its bikefriendliness. New York is probably the home of the Original Traffic Jam (tm) making cars slow. Slow cars mean that you can more comfortably ride like you're a car when it suits you. To me, that's a very important part of cycle-friendliness.
Dahon.Steve-
I've never actually ridden a bike in NYC (i've walked, briefly driven, and ridden on the subway) but I imagine I would disagree with you about its bikefriendliness. New York is probably the home of the Original Traffic Jam (tm) making cars slow. Slow cars mean that you can more comfortably ride like you're a car when it suits you. To me, that's a very important part of cycle-friendliness.
.....until you decide to start white-lining when everyone is moving at 15mph....then a taxi sees a fare and swerves right and your legs are pinned against the taxi's door, your frame & the front bumper of some guy's car.
weed eater
09-21-05, 10:07 AM
my partner and i are moving to Portland OR primarily because it is the best bicycling city we have found. Lots of other reasons too, but that is the foremost. We are car-free here and it is doable but unpleasant. We are planning on having at least one kid and want to do it without car ownership. We spent a week in March riding around Portland and were very impressed by Portland's bikability, specifically:
--The bike networks are extremely well designed and maintained. Particularly when one segment connects to another segment, the routes are well signed and easy to follow.
--The bike paths are wide enough and sensibly placed enough that they are useful for transportation, not just recreation.
--Drivers are patient (more so than here anyway, which isn't saying much) and, in the close-in part of the city anyway, generally follow the speed limit and traffic laws. Drivers seem to be comfortable sharing the road with cyclists, perhaps because many people use bicycles as well as cars to get around.
--Bicyclists are friendly (more so than here...etc) and also follow traffic laws, use hand signals, and are easier to share the road with. An awful lot of people ride bikes for transportation, it seems.
--The weather is lovely (if you don't mind wearing a rain jacket).
--Most of the bridges are accessible to bicycles, and easily (and pleasantly) so.
--The downtown is partially traffic-free.
--People meet your eye. In general, much of the city is built at a human scale, which is of benefit to humans and human-powered transportation (as opposed to cars) in countless ways.
This in addition to more top-down stuff like advocacy groups, governmental spending, and city planning, all of which is also excellent as far as we know. Furthermore Portland has a car-sharing network, which is very handy when you want to use a car for a weekend trip to the coast, or...um...other things you need a car for.
Portland is unfortunately expensive to live in (though not as expensive as the bay area, but, again, that's not saying much), and I understand that employment is hard to find. We are very fortunate in that we are carrying our work with us since we work at home. However, in my estimation and that of some others on the board, if you want to live car-free and live a relatively normal existence (as opposed to being that crazy guy/family who doesn't have a car), Portland OR is the place you ought to be.
flygarn
09-24-05, 11:23 AM
You should move to central Europe. I think I read somewhere that for example Holland has a percentage of commuting by bike of around 40%. Good luck with their language though...
weed eater
09-24-05, 02:12 PM
that's an interesting point ^ the travel-by-bike percentage. I think San Francisco is 4%, Victoria BC on the other hand is 12%...very high by North American standards, and only the tiniest of "language barriers," most of which is easily hurdled with beer. I wonder what Portland's tbb% is.
nathank
09-29-05, 08:29 AM
top in the US:
Portland OR (awesome bike-friendly city as others have stated - lived there 3 years)
Boulder CO
small places like Davis CA, Flagstaff AZ, Bellingham WA, etc.
top in Canada:
Montreal (lots of bikes - bike-aware drivers)
Vancouver
lots of great small places like Victoria
other spots to mention are most large "older" cities: mostly those in the NorthEast, West Cost, Great Lakes, and Mid-Atlantic areas:
San Francisco
Seattle
Philadelphia
D.C.
Boston
NYC
Chicago
San Diego
Sacramento
... these are all OK and most have some form of public transit to assist...
BUT in my opinion do not come close to the bike-friendliness of Portland, Montreal, Boulder
--> these cities have a density high enough to make car driving often a major hassle and thus biking very efficient. there are a greater number of pedestrians and cyclists than other cities and car drivers are thus more "aware" of bikes. nevertheless, suburbs can sprawl endless so distances can be huge (e.g. central Boston is VERY bikable but if your job is 40 miles outside of town bike commuting is hard -- or if you get outside core San Francisco you are in highway/traffic hell) and drivers often aggressive and unfriendly...
next are other Western Cities which are relatively bike-friendly although distances can be great (low-density) and often little or no supplemental transit:
Denver
Phoenix
Tucson
Las Vegas
Boise
Salt Lake City
--> partly because of less traffic so less "driver-rage" and partly from higher bike usage rates simply do to cultural attitudes, these cities are more bike friendly and "pleasant" even though distances can still be great.
next are Midwest, South and Southeast cities which generally are very spread out, have agressive bike-unfriendly drivers and have little or no supplemental transit and drivers NEVER expect to see a cyclist so the danger of cycling if greatly increased (you have to ride like you are invisible!): (note: Southeast kind of overlaps with the large city group and sometimes with the "west" group as many places are more low-key and relaxed)
Dallas
Houston
San Antonio
Orlando
Miami
Atlanta
etc.
--> in these cities the climate is mild so year-round cycling is NO problem (except for sweating in the summer) but the large distances and very unfriendly car-culture make it difficult
Austin and a few other places (mostly also college towns) break the norm a little, but Austin is still a far cry from "bike-friendly" as the number of bike commuters is simply SO low and no on expects a cyclist (maybe lots of Lance-fans on road bikes riding around the lake but not through downtown or along on of the multilane exchanges!)
otherwise, many small towns are bike friendly but if you need to travel to the next town it may not be so "bike-friendly" on the only road to get there :(
as a general rule: a large university more than doubles the chances of a town being bike friendly compared to a similar size/region non-university town.
Europe is in general VERY bike-friendly but in a different way than North America "bike-friendly" cities.
the main difference is that in the US, getting around by bike is something "weird, different, unusual" and the whole infrastructure is set up for CARS only (except in large large cities). in Europe walking and biking are just a way of life.
so a "bike-friendly" city like Portland or Montreal or Davis produces lots of "hoopla" that it is a bike-friendly place. most cities/towns in Europe simple ARE bike-friendly. on the negative side this removes a little of the "shared community/culture" of the car-free biking crowd in a place like Portland -- i.e. you no longer have that feeling that you belong to some cool club b/c you bike everywhere - everybody does it so what's the big deal?
i have now been in Munich Germany for 4 years and being 100% car-free here is SO easy (i was car-free for the first 2 years and now own a car that i use for long trips to the mountains which i drive 2-4 times/month). about 1/3 the streets in town have no bike lanes/paths (works well --- also one-way streets are almost always signed to allow opposite direction cyclists - i.e. motorists should expect it), about 1/3 streets have bike lanes (works well) and about 1/3 the streets have bike paths based on the "Holland model" which are VERY unsafe. the bike paths are separated from the road by parked cars and/or trees and directly adjacent to the pedestrian sidewalk which creates 3 major dangers:
1) as you are separated from the road, car drivers cross your path whenever turning and even though here drivers are well trained to look for cyclists, because of the poor path placement can be very hard
2) pedestrians "wander" into the bike lane
3) parking car drivers must cross the bike path and car-drivers loading/unloading stand in the bike path and the bike path is usually too close to the parked cars so "dooring" is a danger
ANYHOW, regardless, Cycling in any city over say 150,000 in Western Europe is pretty easy and safe -- of all, Germany, Austria and Switzerland are probably the most overall-bike friendly (my opinion) although Scandinavia is also very bike-friendly but works differently --- the "Holland model" is to separate bike completely on BIKE-ONLY paths and they have a huge network of bike paths. but i personally find being banned from the normal road-way bike-unfriendly.
nathank
09-29-05, 08:33 AM
that's an interesting point ^ the travel-by-bike percentage. I think San Francisco is 4%, Victoria BC on the other hand is 12%...very high by North American standards, and only the tiniest of "language barriers," most of which is easily hurdled with beer. I wonder what Portland's tbb% is.
i've forgotten now, but in the 2000 census there was a question of something of the like and if i remember right Portland was the highest for any city, only beaten by small college towns. i think the number was like around 15% but i'm just guessing. maybe it's more like 10%?? Portland does have the highest bike-commuter rate for any US city (over 200,000 or so) and by far and the only places that come close are Universites which have a huge student base which skews the numbers a bit.
nathank
09-29-05, 08:49 AM
...if you want to live car-free and live a relatively normal existence (as opposed to being that crazy guy/family who doesn't have a car), Portland OR is the place you ought to be.
i agree with your assessment of Portland. simply all-round bike-friendly and pleasant to bike in!
and that is a good test: if you choose to ride you bike everywhere are you a "freak"?
In Houston i was a freak on a bike with the constant questions: is your car in the shop? or are you sure you don't want a lift?. Dallas was the same. Austin slightly better simply because "freaks" are more common and more tolerated in the liberal city. Massachusetts easier to do but i was still the "freak". in most places if there is snow on the ground and you are on a bike you are a "freak". if it is over 90F and you give up the option to travel in an A/Ced car to ride the bike, you are a freak...
Portland is different. if you call some business and ask for directions they may even ask, by bike, bus or car? and even if they start with take the Interstate... and you interrupt and say you are coming by bike, there is not that usual silence on the end of the phone (uh, that's over 10 miles, this guy's kidding, right?)...
in Portland and in Munich i am not a freak because i bike to work and do not drive in the city -- of course i am still a freak because i ride thousands of vertical feet up and down mountains (around 300,000 vertical feet per year!) and ride 5,000 to 8,000 miles per year...
I am sorry to see that Minneapolis hasn't made to anyone's list. We have miles of rails to trails, bike lanes, a light rail, bus racks, and a senator that got us some pork to upgrade and add to our bike trail system. One of the great things about living car free is the year round riding you can do. Two years ago I was one of maybe 5 people to make it into work after a 6 inch snow. I just climbed on my fixed gear with Nokians and rode. You learn to dress in layers.
All that aside. I have been told that I would fit in out in the great NW. A friend who lived in Ocean Shores, WA died this year, so I'm on my own when and if I get out there. I did like Olympia, though I didn't do much riding, and didn't get down to OR, though that was the plan. I spent this year's vacation in the hospital nursing my friend through his triple bi-pass.
Dahon.Steve
09-29-05, 04:17 PM
Dahon.Steve-
I've never actually ridden a bike in NYC (i've walked, briefly driven, and ridden on the subway) but I imagine I would disagree with you about its bikefriendliness. New York is probably the home of the Original Traffic Jam (tm) making cars slow. Slow cars mean that you can more comfortably ride like you're a car when it suits you. To me, that's a very important part of cycle-friendliness.
You have a point.
The problem with New York City is not going east to west (crosstown) where traffic travels at 3 mph or less! It's going north to south where the cars bullet past you because the cabs know and time the traffic lights. Because traffic is horrendous, the cars get very aggressive and try to maximize the lights by going as quick as possible. This is the danger in New York City.
On the other hand, I've been to some burbs where no one is safe on a bicycle so it goes both ways.
rickwilliams
09-29-05, 05:38 PM
I think that the pedestrian is the indicator species for a healthy urban environment. If a place is great for pedestrians it will be great for bicyclists.
Great places for pedestrians have lots of connected streets with relatively short blocks and loads of spreading street trees. The streets are designed so that the physical characteristics of the roadway tend to enforce the speed limit. Traffic moving at modest speeds means that cars can execute left turns safely so there's no need to clutter the streets with traffic signals. Fewer traffic signals means less motorist anxiety and congestion. Slow but smooth and even traffic flow means people get to their destinations just as quickly or more quickly than they do when they race between stop lights. Oh, and the best pedestrian places have streetcars. (That's why I love bicycling in Amsterdam)
There's nothing new about any of this. It's the way our grandparents built cities and towns. Real bikability will mean returning to their sensible practices. But for that we must have the humility to recognize that our ancestors were right and we have been wrong, tragically and catastrophically wrong.
I've always found that if a place is pedestrian friendly I don't need bike lanes and if it's not, bike lanes don't really do much good.
i agree with your assessment of Portland. simply all-round bike-friendly and pleasant to bike in!
and that is a good test: if you choose to ride you bike everywhere are you a "freak"?
In Houston i was a freak on a bike with the constant questions: is your car in the shop? or are you sure you don't want a lift?. Dallas was the same. Austin slightly better simply because "freaks" are more common and more tolerated in the liberal city. Massachusetts easier to do but i was still the "freak". in most places if there is snow on the ground and you are on a bike you are a "freak". if it is over 90F and you give up the option to travel in an A/Ced car to ride the bike, you are a freak...
Portland is different. if you call some business and ask for directions they may even ask, by bike, bus or car? and even if they start with take the Interstate... and you interrupt and say you are coming by bike, there is not that usual silence on the end of the phone (uh, that's over 10 miles, this guy's kidding, right?)...
I think that the pedestrian is the indicator species for a healthy urban environment. If a place is great for pedestrians it will be great for bicyclists.
Agreed.
Arcata, California was mentioned. I lived in Arcata for a total of two years and must agree that there is some beautiful cycling to be had, especially mountain. Being a college town, people are very receptive to bikes. Places to park everywhere, and many people are car free. I struck up many a good biking conversation with interesting individuals while loading my panniers in front of the local food co-op.
Arcata itself is a gorgeous town, with beach and redwood forest within a short bike ride. Weather is fair all year around, never too hot or too cold.
The town is extremely small, and yet there are three bike shops on the same street, and I believe one or two more nearby. Great wheelbuilder in one of the shops, very friendly people. There is also a bike-loan library, and the Humboldt State university has a free bike clinic where you can learn more about repair. Volunteer based.
Rent is relatively inexpensive too compared to other parts of California.
Uppsala, Sweden is also very bike friendly, as is Olympia, WA (I lived there for a year as well). The Evergreen State College just outside of Olympia has a great volunteer operated, free to use bike clinic. Full set of tools and some very knowledgeable people. Very avid cycling community. Olympia is also a goregous city, but colder than say, Arcata.
danimal
09-30-05, 08:49 PM
Really, I think most will agree: The best place to ride your bike is where you are right now!
i'm enjoying this thread a lot, i typically don't post on 'living car free' but have been enjoying lurking for a while...
as far as "where you are right now" goes, i think that speaks to the fact that 'bike-friendly' is really subjective:
i lived in nyc for a while, and there, while dangerous, i loved the fact that because there was virtually no bicycle-related infrastructure (west-side 'multi-purpose' path aside) it is easy for a cyclist to exist 'under the radar' and not get in trouble for disobeying any and all traffic regulations...so, for certain types of people, nyc is in fact a very bike-friendly city. -in contrast, in a city like portland, while i've had a great time the little that i've ridden there, bicycling is a valid and respected form of transportation and thus demands a higher degree of respect (by cyclists) for all other types of traffic....in terms of 'bike friendly places,' to some riders, part of the fun of riding is feeling you're operating outside (and maybe above?) 'normal' traffic.
then there's this whole issue of number and quality of bike-paths/bike-lanes: i personally like bike lanes along major streets; it allows me to go as fast as i'd like and while there aren't a lot of 'em here in tempe, az, the ones that are here are fairly wide and debris free. on the other hand, some people love bike/multi-purpose paths (like the west-side bike path)...these are great if you're cruising along, but they can also be really dangerous when some all-carbon lance-wannabe goes flying around a curve into a family out for a relaxed bike ride on their cruisers.
anyway, that's my two cents. oh, and by the way, tucson is awesome for riding!
tahoegramps
10-01-05, 02:37 PM
Gramps, are you actually from Tahoe? Davis, just the other side of Sacramento from Tahoe, is a very bike friendly city.
Yes, I used to live there, I do not now however.
You should move to central Europe. I think I read somewhere that for example Holland has a percentage of commuting by bike of around 40%. Good luck with their language though...
My experience is that most people in Holland speak excellent English. Some better than my neighbors here in Atlanta.
Az
Ganesha
10-02-05, 02:32 PM
Portland does have the highest bike-commuter rate for any US city (over 200,000 or so) and by far and the only places that come close are Universites which have a huge student base which skews the numbers a bit.
Top US City's for Bicycling with populations over 250,000.
1. Tucson (2.28%)
2. San Francisco (2.08%)
3. Seattle (1.97%)
4. Minneapolis (1.96%)
5. Portland (1.96%)
Here is a website with all the data: http://www.bikesatwork.com/carfree/carfree-census-database.html
Here is a website with all the data: http://www.bikesatwork.com/carfree/carfree-census-database.html
Very interesting link. Thank you, Ganesha
HOLLAND!!
You won't find another country with the vast network of cycling paths that Holland has. The culture is all about biking and there are more bikes than people in Holland. The drivers are very friendly and will give you the right of way most of the time (even when they have it). There are signs all over the trails to help you get around and as many bike shops as there are liquor stores. What are the drawbacks?
1. You need a work permit (good luck)
2. December-March
3. I haven't found a good race shop yet.
matt_savvy
10-04-05, 02:26 PM
move to philadelphia...it's like they built this place for bikes but not for cars
chennai
10-04-05, 05:34 PM
Either way, my excitement stems from the fact that I've been wanting to move to Denver for the past four months. Every single time I hear something about that city, it is a good thing. To have it be one of the more cycle-friendly cities just fortifies my move even more.
The Bicycling ranking puts more weight than it should on the fact that Denver employs a bike/pedestrian planner. It would be nice if Bicycling (and Denver) looked at what the planner actually did . . .
To me it seems as if the number of "Bicycles use sidewalk" signs has grown since he started. There have also been a number of small infrastructure improvements that seemed designed to get bikes off the road. And some of these put bikes in dangerous spots when it comes time to re-enter traffic.
I actually have found San Francisco (not to mention Seattle) better and friendlier to bike.
You may find your answer here (http://ask.metafilter.com/mefi/21051).
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