Advocacy & Safety - How many times today ...

... did someone either (a) try to run you off the road or (b) get pissy because you wouldn't ride in the gutter.

During my commute today, twice. One cabbie almost ran me off the road, but I was able to jump up onto a low curb and onto a sidewalk. Much yelling insued as i rode off. One ***** in a jetta (pardon my french) couldn't understand that if I tried to ride on the side of the road I'd be knee deep in potholes (it its the industrial area of Long Island City, Queens, NY) and decided to lay on her horn, I stayed in my position, she passed me, and approaching the next light, tried to cut me off from passing her at the next light (she was swerving all over the road and I had to approach her from behind on the left, at which point she pulled onto the double yellow, stopped and I swerved right and passed her, turning onto my block one up).

Seriously, how hard is it to just realize that I won't ride in the gutter and play "lets bunny hop potholes", and look every once in a while. Fer fack's sake, the cabbie couldn't have not seen me.

What about you?

I get negligible flack from drivers, and believe me, I don't ride the gutters!


Just curious, what kind of bike are you riding and what are you wearing?

Does your body language and riding style make clear to drivers that you belong where you are riding? Do you feel, deep down, that you belong where you are riding?

Let's see, you just want today's? Today I was on the roadie, I almost always have more trouble when I'm on it and I don't even wear a kit. :rolleyes: Grandma decided to pull out right in front of me (doing 24 mph) and couldn't understand why I was pissed. Mr. motorcycle made a right turn RIGHT in front of me (hadn't even totally passed me yet) as he pulled into MMI (Motorcycle Mechanics Institute), I told him he obviously wasn't the brightest student in the class. Had another cyclist refuse to move over on the MUP. Guess that was about it for today. :p

Strangely, if I'm on the commuter (mtn bike with slicks) I don't have as many road rage encounters and actually get a lot of people that honk going the other way???? Did have a bus driver last week that I got into it with though. He cut us off pulling into the bike lane to drop off his customer and then as we were forced to pass "taking the lane" he cut us off pulling out and forced us over another lane about causing my wife to crash. I can handle it if you fawk with me, but mess with a family member and I'm pissed. We had "words" and I later filed a complaint against him as I couldn't seem to get him to understand he still had to yield when merging, he thought buses had free reign???? Kind of funny, he told me he hoped I got 2 flat tires and I told him I hoped he didn't have a job tomorrow. :D They're supposed to contact me regarding the complaint though so we'll see what happens.

Nothing today. Yesterday, someone honked at me because I kept going straight while he/she wanted to get on the right turn only lane. Don't know if it was an angry honk or warning honk, but I gave the one-finger salute for the first time in my life since that honk startled me.

Probably happened because I mentionned I rarely get honked at in another thread.

Incidents with drivers are an extreme rarity.

Twice. AND I WAS DRIVING!

Some people are just idiots in general.

I ride 4000 miles per year, mostly to/from work, and it never happens to me.

You're doing something wrong. Do you know how to ride vehicularly?



... did someone either (a) try to run you off the road or (b) get pissy because you wouldn't ride in the gutter. What about you?

None yet this year. I'm only up to about 700 miles for the year due to some medical and other issues.
Last year, I think I got honked at 4 times, in 2600 miles. Nobody drove erratically around me.
When I first started commuting, I came here and the rhetoric scared me (especially on the "Advocacy and Safety" board). I like to post once in a while to let people know that it's not that bad everywhere.

I can't remember the last time I got run into the gutter or got flack from drivers.

We're just one happy family of commuters here in So Cal.

(This is my reality, yours may vary.)

I can't remember the last time I got run into the gutter or got flack from drivers.

We're just one happy family of commuters here in So Cal.

(This is my reality, yours may vary.)

gotta agree. the only time i have trouble is nice afternoons when the mup i take to extend my ride home (6.6 mi in am, 15-20 in pm) gets clogged with people, and then its mainly an issue of letting them know i'm coming and they move over.

I ride 4000 miles per year, mostly to/from work, and it never happens to me.

You're doing something wrong. Do you know how to ride vehicularly?

And you're from Houston! I've been assured a number of times on this forum by various folks that the only reason VC works for me is because I live in San Diego, and, in particular, not in Houston. :rolleyes: (Gene, are you reading this thread?)

Anyway, we have self-proclaimed vehicular cyclists who unanimously claim little if any problems with motorists, and others who claim having problems daily, or almost daily.

Hmm...

Only one problem today. A guy crossing a six lane street that was empty except for me in the far right lane, taking the whole lane. I was very visible the motorist saw me and then continued across the road and pretended that he didn't see me as he chatted on his phone. I almost never have problems, but here in LA the ones that do cause issues are the ones who do see me and act as if they don't have to drive any differently when they do. But I don't think this is a cycling thing as these kind of drivers do these things when I'm driving too.

Hmmm, nothing the last day or two. I did have an "encounter" with a UPS truck recently.

Aside: you ultra-VC guys really need to pull the seatposts out of your arses. I'd say that almost every time I've been cursed-out, agressively honked at, nearly run off the road, etc I have been fully in the lane where I belong and drivers, ahem, disagreed. Bleep happens fellas, no matter how "vehicularly" you ride.

I have found that in certain neighborhoods, even if I ride in the middle of the lane, the drivers still pass me with little to no room between us. Most other places I can do it without having trouble.

Problems with drivers can happen anytime, but especially during drive time, when all the cube rats are going to and fro. If you had their boss, you'd be generally p!ssed at the world, too. Plus NYC traffic is always a horror, so a cyclist taking up the only 3 or 4 feet of lane space is almost guaranteed to run into a jerk, oftimes more than one.

I have found that if the driver/cager is really dangerous, as in swerving around erractically or otherwise trying to mess with you (in NYState it's called Vehicular Menacement, or Attempted Vehicular Assault, depending), I have found that acting in a manner that suggests that you (the cyclist) are in fact more psychotically deranged than the driver will cool them down. Pounding on the driver's window, demanding that they either roll down the window or get out of the vehicle is very effective. Obviously following them for a few blocks is a good one, also.

For those of you who aren't 6 feet, 195lbs as I am, I can also suggest DMV form MV-15. All you need is the plate number. Send the filled out form and $12 to Albany, and you will recieve the driver's name, address, and a list of violations. This is especially useful if you have problems with the same person over time.

Aside: you ultra-VC guys really need to pull the seatposts out of your arses. I'd say that almost every time I've been cursed-out, agressively honked at, nearly run off the road, etc I have been fully in the lane where I belong and drivers, ahem, disagreed. Bleep happens fellas, no matter how "vehicularly" you ride.
Why the quotes around "vehicularly"? Do you think VC is basically "riding in the middle of the lane where I belong"? If so, that could explain why you have been cursed-out, aggressively honked at, nearly run off the road, etc.

VC includes riding in the middle of the lane when it is safe, reasonable and appropriate to do so, but is much more than that.

In other words, if faster traffic is behind a vehicular cyclist, he will generally keep to the right to facilitate their passing (and hence not get cursed-out, aggressively honked at, nearly run off the road), unless there is an obviously good reason to not do so. And if it's not obvious, the VC will communicate with the motorist behind him, mostly with smiles, hand gestures and body language, to aid the motorist in understanding why it is not safe and/or reasonable for the cyclist to move over at that time. Issuing a slow/stop signal with the left arm does wonders in this respect... how many times have you used a slow/stop signal in the last week? Month? Year?

There is a lot more to VC then simply taking the lane, and it's certainly not simply about taking the lane for no reason.

I ride 4000 miles per year, mostly to/from work, and it never happens to me.You're doing something wrong. Do you know how to ride vehicularly?

I have been bike commuting for years and I have almost never had a conflict with an automobile. Even though I live in a city, cars don't honk at me, yell, cut me off, or throw things. I'm starting to develop a complex since I can't write into bikeforums and biatch about "cagers."

H
Aside: you ultra-VC guys really need to pull the seatposts out of your arses.

Now that gave me a mental image I could do without. :D

Why the quotes around "vehicularly"? Do you think VC is basically "riding in the middle of the lane where I belong"? If so, that could explain why you have been cursed-out, aggressively honked at, nearly run off the road, etc.

VC includes riding in the middle of the lane when it is safe, reasonable and appropriate to do so, but is much more than that.

In other words, if faster traffic is behind a vehicular cyclist, he will generally keep to the right to facilitate their passing (and hence not get cursed-out, aggressively honked at, nearly run off the road), unless there is an obviously good reason to not do so. And if it's not obvious, the VC will communicate with the motorist behind him, mostly with smiles, hand gestures and body language, to aid the motorist in understanding why it is not safe and/or reasonable for the cyclist to move over at that time. Issuing a slow/stop signal with the left arm does wonders in this respect... how many times have you used a slow/stop signal in the last week? Month? Year?

There is a lot more to VC then simply taking the lane, and it's certainly not simply about taking the lane for no reason.

Quotes because I wasn't sure it was a real word. I'll take it from you that it is.

Only an a real dummy would sit in the middle of the lane at all times, duh. As for communicating, I wish more folks would so I wouldn't feel so silly being the only one doing it. ;) I've gone so far as to tap on a guy's window at an intersection to thank him for being courteous. BTW, I believe I used a "slow/stop signal" twice in the last 24 hours. Nice try. :) It even worked both times, which is pretty good around here.

To sum-up, you're preaching to a believer who doesn't want to be part of your church. :)

I have been bike commuting for years and I have almost never had a conflict with an automobile. Even though I live in a city, cars don't honk at me, yell, cut me off, or throw things. I'm starting to develop a complex since I can't write into bikeforums and biatch about "cagers."

Join the complex club :D

You know, I used to commute via motorcycle 100 miles a day in LA traffic. I can't remember ever being cut off or even having a close call then either. Hmmmm.

Join the complex club :D

You know, I used to commute via motorcycle 100 miles a day in LA traffic. I can't remember ever being cut off or even having a close call then either. Hmmmm.

You have got to be kidding me? Which roads/freeways did you commute on that you never had ANY run-ins?
I'm not one of those Los Angeles drivers bashers, but that you never had an incident in 100 mile a day commute seems a bit hyperbolic. It sounds more like you just never let any of it get to you, which is admirable in its own right. Which I guess you can argue that if an incident didn't affect you then maybe it didn't happen. If that's the case then you are the Zen Commutin' Master :D

Ok,I generally just sit back and roast marshmallows on these VC flame fests,but I think it's time to throw down the gauntlet.

Helmet Head:I obviously need your wisdom and guidance. I encounter idiots every day,dispite my attempts at VC. Tell you what,I'm on vacation for the next 3 weeks starting Mon. How about you come out here to DC and show me how it's done? We can go through Georgetown on Friday night,go up and down Wisc and Mass,and I'll even take you to the AU traffic circle. You can show me the proper way to ride,how to be one with the traffic. Heck,I'll even take you out with the Pirates and buy your drinks.

How about it? Wanna get your Yoda on?

No way I can make it to DC, but I'll take on any offer like that in San Diego.

Any VCists in DC who can go out for a few rides with dynaryder?

No problems today or almost every other day. I can go a whole year with no cager yells or honks, then get two or three in one day. Usually, that one day is the first day of school, and the yellers are high school students. "Ypi aren't allowed to ride in the street! Use the sidewalk!" I sometimes stop in the middle of the street and have long discussions with them. It usually ends up sounding like on of these threads! :D

To those elitist: I find it ironic that you assume proper vehicular cycling is not being used if someone gets honked at, etc. I take entire lanes when I'm riding 35-45 MPH in 30 MPH traffic the last 1/4 mile from my work (a nice railroad transom that is about 1/4 miles long and an 8 degree grade). I can guarantee on about a 1-in-3 day chance that someone will come racing up behind me, intentionally speeding, to yell at me, honk or get into a verbal argument about where I should be riding. Normally an explaination of the rules, a polite, yet firm explaination of why my foot would hurt if it was implanted in their ass or an offer to ride the block over and allow one of the fine Temple Police Department officers decide how best to explain the rules of the road follows, I've never had an issue beyond that really.

To the OP: I was walking! this morning because I taco'd my rim a bit and didn't have time to true it. My commute to school is 8 miles so it took me about 2 hours total, needless to say I was able to log the following genius behavior:
A. Almost hit 3 times even though I was lit in my running clothes w/ reflective tape on the sides, a hat light, 3 reflectors I have on my bag, two ankle-reflectors and my blinkie that I have mounted to my bag as well, while crossing a bridge with 3 lights on it, no sidewalk or shoulder for me to walk on. Normally I can run/ride on this bridge without issue, so I found it really funny when I was walking. The third car was pulled over by the police officer that passed. The only part of the conversation I heard was "Are you telling me you couldn't see that moving christmas tree that was legally crossing the bridge, sir?" - made me laugh (which pissed off the cop I think by his look).
B. Almost got hit by 3 bike commuters going the wrong way on the MUP (the wrong way meaning down the center and forcing me to step into the grass).
C. Had a gravel truck spew me with debris as he came screaming up the side of the road doing 70 in a 50MPH zone.

Was an eventful morning (now I'm just sore and have 2 huge bruises on my back where my laptop politely tapped onto my lower back for 2 hours.

And you're from Houston! I've been assured a number of times on this forum by various folks that the only reason VC works for me is because I live in San Diego, and, in particular, not in Houston. :rolleyes: (Gene, are you reading this thread?)

Anyway, we have self-proclaimed vehicular cyclists who unanimously claim little if any problems with motorists, and others who claim having problems daily, or almost daily.

Hmm...

Read posts 12 and 13...

And RE Houston, sure there are quiet neighborhoods, just as not everyone in San Diego has to use Miramar road or 5 south in their commute.

Loved this little explaination:


In other words, if faster traffic is behind a vehicular cyclist, he will generally keep to the right to facilitate their passing (and hence not get cursed-out, aggressively honked at, nearly run off the road), unless there is an obviously good reason to not do so. And if it's not obvious, the VC will communicate with the motorist behind him, mostly with smiles, hand gestures and body language, to aid the motorist in understanding why it is not safe and/or reasonable for the cyclist to move over at that time.

Gee, just sounds just like a few weeks ago when I was generally keeping to the right, in my own lane, on west bound Clairemont Mesa Blvd, on a quiet Sunday morning with the two left adjacent lanes wide open, and along comes mr. motorist... right behind me (never mind the empty lanes) and honks.

I communicated with mr. motorist and asked what the problem was... I was not "far enough over to the right."

Three lanes of road, I am in one lane and the other two are empty, I am avoiding parked cars which are just up ahead of me... and yet this jerk comes up and honks.

"Not far enough to the right."

Seems to me the real problem was he was not far enough to the left. :rolleyes:

I could not have been more VC, and yet... this happens... I guess my only other recourse would have been to simply not be there, then the road would have been completely empty, for mr. motorist.

BTW for the record, there are no bike lanes on Clairemont Mesa Blvd... anywhere. And yes, this was a rare incident... but why did it occur at all? That's the part that sticks with me.

I find it ironic that you assume proper vehicular cycling is not being used if someone gets honked at, etc. I take entire lanes when I'm riding ...

[I'm repeating part of what I said in #15 because your point is so similar to that of oboeguy]

Do you think VC is basically about taking entire lanes? If so, that could explain why you have people racing up behing you, intentionally speeding, yelling at you, honking, or getting into a verbal argument about where you should be riding. Just because you are taking an entire lane when you're riding, most certainly does not necessarily mean you are using proper vehicular cycling.

According to the vehicular rules of the road, slower vehicles should facilitate the passing of faster traffic by keeping to the side when it is safe and reasonable to do so. So, if you are using an entire lane that inhibits faster traffic, unless it's unsafe or unreasonable to move aside, you are NOT using proper vehicular cycling.

VC includes riding in the middle of the lane when it is safe, reasonable and appropriate to do so, but is much more than that.

In other words, if faster traffic is behind a vehicular cyclist, he will generally keep to the right to facilitate their passing (and hence not get cursed-out, aggressively honked at, nearly run off the road), unless there is an obviously good reason to not do so. And if it's not obvious, the VC will communicate with the motorist behind him, mostly with smiles, hand gestures and body language, to aid the motorist in understanding why it is not safe and/or reasonable for the cyclist to move over at that time. Issuing a slow/stop signal with the left arm does wonders in this respect... how many times have you used a slow/stop signal in the last week? Month? Year?

There is a lot more to VC than simply taking the lane, and it's certainly not simply about taking the lane for no reason. Knowing when NOT to use an entire lane is as much of VC as is knowing when TO use an entire lane. Proper VC involves a lot of moving back and forth, which requires learning how to quickly assess and reassess ever-changing scenarios to know where at any given moment is the proper lateral lane position.

For those of you who get a lot of flack for using the entire lane... do you use a mirror?

I'm glancing in my mirror quite frequently whenever I'm using an entire lane, keeping tabs on what's going on behind me. I know when faster traffic is approaching, and, just before I'm impeding it, if it's safe and reasonable to do so, I'll move over back to the side and/or into the bike lane. Perhaps that's why I get smiles and waves of thank you rather than honks and anger?

For those of you who get a lot of flack for using the entire lane... do you use a mirror?

I'm glancing in my mirror quite frequently whenever I'm using an entire lane, keeping tabs on what's going on behind me. I know when faster traffic is approaching, and, just before I'm impeding it, if it's safe and reasonable to do so, I'll move over back to the side and/or into the bike lane. Perhaps that's why I get smiles and waves of thank you rather than honks and anger?

Sounds like a case of Cyclist Inferiority to me... why not just stay in the lane and assert your rights to the road? ;)

Because no one's right to the road includes the right to impede faster traffic without reason. It's a principle that applies equally to all vehicular road users; nothing inferior about it.

You know, today was the first time I had a problem with this. I was riding about an hour later than usual, so instead of peaceful early-morning I got rush hour. I was on the right, as far as I could safely get, to let traffic pass (It was a 45mph zone, and I know I was slower). But it was a narrow, winding route and there was trafffic in both directions. People were all pissy 'cause they had to slow down before they could pass me. Some guy with kids in his car comes up blowing his horn for a good 2-3 minutes, and then actually noses over as if he's going to nudge me off the lane, and he's screaming at me about where I should be. That starts a cavalcade of cars behind him honking their horns, and gunning their engines to speed up to the next intersection (a mile or two away). Great. 'Cause what I needed was a dozen hotheads driving angry (like Bill Murray sez, "don't drive angry!"). So much for the invigorating morning ride. My whole day was shot.

..."Not far enough to the right." Just how far to the right were you supposed to be to please this nitwit?

Among the various bits and pieces of entrenched misinformation about bicycle law I've heard over the year is this one I have heard, and I am betting some of you have heard as well. It's the bit about "well, you're supposed to be six inches from the curb at all times!"

I've read the bike statutes for my own state (MA) and several others. Nowhere have I read any law stating that cyclists are supposed to be six inches from any curb. "As far to the right as practical" is mentioned in few, but no, no "six inches".

And yet, people believe it. Stupid question: why are people so quick to believe misinformation, and how does it get so entrenched?

To answer the question, nothing happened to me today. But there is always tomorrow.
You name it, I have been honked at, yelled at, swerved at, cut off, and had various objects thrown at me. Said objects include such things as beer bottles (twice) eggs (once, and it was not anywhere close to halloween) a cup of Dunkin Donuts coffee (it went into the wind, and landed on the back quarter of the crappy car from whence it came) and McDonalds leftovers. (One occasion, and it all missed.)

Probably the most creative low-forehead I have ever encountered, was one who leaned out of the passenger window of a passing crap-box, and blasted me with one of those freon-powered horns. This, about three feet from my face.

I'd like to think that these low-foreheads get what's coming to them, sooner or later.

Whew! sorry for the rant, but "I feel your pain".

Ok,I generally just sit back and roast marshmallows on these VC flame fests,but I think it's time to throw down the gauntlet.

Helmet Head:I obviously need your wisdom and guidance. I encounter idiots every day,dispite my attempts at VC. Tell you what,I'm on vacation for the next 3 weeks starting Mon. How about you come out here to DC and show me how it's done? We can go through Georgetown on Friday night,go up and down Wisc and Mass,and I'll even take you to the AU traffic circle. You can show me the proper way to ride,how to be one with the traffic. Heck,I'll even take you out with the Pirates and buy your drinks.

How about it? Wanna get your Yoda on?

I ride through Georgetown twice every day on my way to work -- then down Pennsylvania Avenue, across on Constitution, and up 7th street. A very heavy traffic route. I won't say I never get honked at, but it's pretty rare. It also seems to happen a lot less than it used to. I don't know if it's me or the drivers that are getting better.

The turning point for me was when I realized that cars would buzz me only if they thought they had the room. If I'm getting buzzed, it means my lane position is all wrong, and I've got no one to blame but myself. On an avenue like Pennsylvania or Constitution I'll ride in the right lane, in the center of the lane, without incident. I probably get honked at more in my car than I do on my bike.

Helmet Head,

Since you went so far as to remove the remaining part of that sentence, I'll assume you have zero intention of offering constructive criticism.

I am riding 10-15MPH faster than the legal traffic flow for this street, i.e. they have to do 30 MPH by law, as do I. I'm intentionally going much faster than this and having people speed to catch up and overtake me to create an issue of it. I'll take the whole lane to be safe because the traffic pattern on this road works like this:

A. If I give an inch, they'll push me to the sidewalk, literally.

I don't need a B. addendum to support my argument, A. will suffice. There is no room to mess with people in a non-bicycle friendly town (due to size mostly, but other variables apply - watch for my 5 page thesis on this that is being turned in on the 22nd ).

I've read the bike statutes for my own state (MA) and several others. Nowhere have I read any law stating that cyclists are supposed to be six inches from any curb. "As far to the right as practical" is mentioned in few, but no, no "six inches".
Where "safe distance" to the side of a cyclist is ever legally quantified, it's usually 3 feet or 1 meter. I've never seen it quantified as anything under 3 feet or 1 meter.

However, if you're centered in a 4 foot wide bike lane, that leaves only 2 feet from the center of your wheel to the curb, about a foot less than that from the side of your body to the curb. Given that a typical cyclist is 2 feet wide, keeping 3 feet to the right of his body from the curb, and 3 feet from traffic on the left, requires 3 + 2 + 3 = 8 feet. That's why I use the full traffic lane as my primary riding position, and move over to the bike lane or right side to let faster traffic pass only temporarily when safe and reasonable to do so.

Santaria, I apologize for misinterpreting your words to imply that you equated VC with taking the entire lane independent of other factors.

So you're bicycling 45 mph in a 30 mph zone. I'm sorry for not anticipating that.

By the way, what street (near what cross street) in what city are you talking about?

Because no one's right to the road includes the right to impede faster traffic without reason. It's a principle that applies equally to all vehicular road users; nothing inferior about it.

Oh, so you are concerned about traffic behind you...

How are you impeding traffic if there are multiple lanes and you are only using one of them?

... did someone either (a) try to run you off the road or (b) get pissy because you wouldn't ride in the gutter?
Zero.

And I ride vehicularly, but not in the center of the lane and I use the bike lane or stay as far to the right as practicable. VC doesn't mean you have to be like HH. IMO he's a bit too aggressive with car traffic. I have found it works better for me to acknowledge that most of them are in a big hurry to get to the next light, so I do what I can to let them, or at least not give any appearance that I'm impeding them on purpose.

How are you impeding traffic if there are multiple lanes and you are only using one of them?

If traffic is light, I'm not impeding it at all. But even then, I'm requiring someone to do a lane change who wouldn't otherwise have to.

If traffic is heavy, and it's not easy for them to change lanes, I will cause my lane to get backed up.

But all of that is okay, if I have no safe and reasonable alternative.

In other words, I have no problem with necessary impeding, no matter how much impact I cause (necessary is necessary); I do try to avoid impeding traffic unnecessarily, no matter how little impact I cause.

For example, on a multi-lane road with a WOL, I will generally move aside into the bike lane or nearer the curb as traffic approaches from the rear in my lane if I am between intersections, unless I'm preparing for a multi-lane merge to get into a left turn pocket or something. Of course, if the lane is too narrow to be shared, or moving aside would require riding in a door zone, or moving aside is unsafe or unreasonable for any reason, I won't do it.

If traffic is light, I'm not impeding it at all. But even then, I'm requiring someone to do a lane change who wouldn't otherwise have to.

If traffic is heavy, and it's not easy for them to change lanes, I will cause my lane to get backed up.

But all of that is okay, if I have no safe and reasonable alternative.

In other words, I have no problem with necessary impeding, no matter how much impact I cause (necessary is necessary); I do try to avoid impeding traffic unnecessarily, no matter how little impact I cause.

For example, on a multi-lane road with a WOL, I will generally move aside into the bike lane or nearer the curb as traffic approaches from the rear in my lane if I am between intersections, unless I'm preparing for a multi-lane merge to get into a left turn pocket or something. Of course, if the lane is too narrow to be shared, or moving aside would require riding in a door zone, or moving aside is unsafe or unreasonable for any reason, I won't do it.


So on a multilaned road with WOL, would a slow cement truck pull over?

No way I can make it to DC, but I'll take on any offer like that in San Diego.

You missed the entire point of my post. DC is not San Diego. Different drivers,different roads.

And for the record,my problem is not with getting honked at,it's getting buzzed. It's quite common for me to get passed with only a couple inches of room when I'm in the center of the lane and the one next to me is completely free.

So on a multilaned road with WOL, would a slow cement truck pull over?
First, I did not say "pull over". I said "move aside". To me, "pull over" includes coming to a stop, "moving over" or "moving aside" does not. So I'm going to assume you're asking if a cement truck would move aside.

A cement truck driver going 45 mph? Probably not. A bulldozer driver going 10 mph? Probably...



You missed the entire point of my post. DC is not San Diego. Different drivers,different roads.
I didn't miss your point. In all the places I've ridden, including different countries (Germany, France), I have found no significant differences. That is, riding in accordance to the vehicular rules of the road works quite effectively everywhere. Every now and then someone claims, oh but you haven't ridden in (Houston, Australia, Hawaii,... now it's DC). Whatever. The same rules of the road and human nature apply there, so I don't see why it would be any different.

If you honestly want to explore employing VC in DC, I suggest contacting DCcommuter.

First, I did not say "pull over". I said "move aside". To me, "pull over" includes coming to a stop, "moving over" or "moving aside" does not. So I'm going to assume you're asking if a cement truck would move aside.

A cement truck driver going 45 mph? Probably not. A bulldozer driver going 10 mph? Probably...



Uh, semantics again... OK "move over." I did however say a "slower" cement truck. You say "probably," I say, "I doubt it."

I have been bike commuting for years and I have almost never had a conflict with an automobile. Even though I live in a city, cars don't honk at me, yell, cut me off, or throw things. I'm starting to develop a complex since I can't write into bikeforums and biatch about "cagers."

Yea, me too. I blame it on this pinko, commie, lefter-than-Castro city I live in. What a bunch of lillypants!

My last close call was after 5 (great) days on the PGH-DC Canal trail, I was riding into Georgetown (culture shock). A bike messenger blowing a red lite almost T-boned me.

You say "probably," I say, "I doubt it."
I have passed bulldozers while cycling when they've moved aside into the bike lane.

... did someone either (a) try to run you off the road or (b) get pissy because you wouldn't ride in the gutter.

During my commute today, twice. One cabbie almost ran me off the road, but I was able to jump up onto a low curb and onto a sidewalk. Much yelling insued as i rode off. One ***** in a jetta (pardon my french) couldn't understand that if I tried to ride on the side of the road I'd be knee deep in potholes (it its the industrial area of Long Island City, Queens, NY) and decided to lay on her horn, I stayed in my position, she passed me, and approaching the next light, tried to cut me off from passing her at the next light (she was swerving all over the road and I had to approach her from behind on the left, at which point she pulled onto the double yellow, stopped and I swerved right and passed her, turning onto my block one up).

Seriously, how hard is it to just realize that I won't ride in the gutter and play "lets bunny hop potholes", and look every once in a while. Fer fack's sake, the cabbie couldn't have not seen me.

What about you?

I always take the lane on the bridge near me and by take it i mean leave no room to pass on my right while being as far left in the lane as i can. I still get morons esp this one guy (in a white panel delivery van) that goes off to my side no matter where i am slows down to match pace with me gets as far over towards me as is possible then floors it. Im getting me a cheapo disposable camera and rigging a cable to it to take a pic of his plates asap. What hes doing is 100% deliberate and borders on assult with a deadly weapon far as im conserned. When i catch his plates on film i will be pressng charges against him hopefully i cost him his license. Maybe ill suggest to the judge to sentence him to ride a bike for 3 months :)
Im not sure of my speed as i have no bike comp. But based on the time it takes me to complete the 7 mile there and back ride i estimate 21mph avarage (large fun down hill ride on the return leg).

As for this guy blasting by far left of the center line that wont stop me from holding the lane in this manner. Speed limit on the road is 35/45 and along time ago on a mtb i crashed pretty hard on that bridge bouncing off the gaurd rail do to a inept motorist. Fall to the ground below (a highway) is 30 fett pluss and the highway down there is very busy. A fall from there 3 in about 12 years has always been fatal.

[I'm repeating part of what I said in #15 because your point is so similar to that of oboeguy]

Do you think VC is basically about taking entire lanes? If so, that could explain why you have people racing up behing you, intentionally speeding, yelling at you, honking, or getting into a verbal argument about where you should be riding. Just because you are taking an entire lane when you're riding, most certainly does not necessarily mean you are using proper vehicular cycling.

According to the vehicular rules of the road, slower vehicles should facilitate the passing of faster traffic by keeping to the side when it is safe and reasonable to do so. So, if you are using an entire lane that inhibits faster traffic, unless it's unsafe or unreasonable to move aside, you are NOT using proper vehicular cycling.

VC includes riding in the middle of the lane when it is safe, reasonable and appropriate to do so, but is much more than that.

In other words, if faster traffic is behind a vehicular cyclist, he will generally keep to the right to facilitate their passing (and hence not get cursed-out, aggressively honked at, nearly run off the road), unless there is an obviously good reason to not do so. And if it's not obvious, the VC will communicate with the motorist behind him, mostly with smiles, hand gestures and body language, to aid the motorist in understanding why it is not safe and/or reasonable for the cyclist to move over at that time. Issuing a slow/stop signal with the left arm does wonders in this respect... how many times have you used a slow/stop signal in the last week? Month? Year?

There is a lot more to VC than simply taking the lane, and it's certainly not simply about taking the lane for no reason. Knowing when NOT to use an entire lane is as much of VC as is knowing when TO use an entire lane. Proper VC involves a lot of moving back and forth, which requires learning how to quickly assess and reassess ever-changing scenarios to know where at any given moment is the proper lateral lane position.

While i often find your post border line trolling. I tend to agree on some points. Ive got the booklet that you your self likly have as well (mines from ohio so its a tad diffrent than yours most probably)
What i do is take the lane at stop signs bridges light and short but steep hills. I keep a eye on my back side and signal the driver behind me to wait then ill make a couple small s turns and wave them by. Most get the message and give me the room so i feel safe when they pass. Basically my s crves are my way of saying to the driver behind me to give me this much room and to go ahead and pass. Most drivers who dont blow by me pass me with distance to spare. I had a couple motorist match pace with me and say thing like cute idea more cyclists should do that and other comments along those lines.

Some people behind the wheel are decent people others are total morons (see my last post in this topic about the guy in the white van). That paticular moron is out to harras riders and i fully intend on getting him fired or worse getting his lic suspended and fired.He goes out of his way to harras riders ive seen him do it to others caused one guy on a mtb to crash in a ditch.

I didn't miss your point. In all the places I've ridden, including different countries (Germany, France), I have found no significant differences. That is, riding in accordance to the vehicular rules of the road works quite effectively everywhere. Every now and then someone claims, oh but you haven't ridden in (Houston, Australia, Hawaii,... now it's DC). Whatever. The same rules of the road and human nature apply there, so I don't see why it would be any different.

Oops,my bad. I should have specified that I was on planet Earth,not whatever weirdo parallel universe you live in. :rolleyes:

Seriously HH,you are a Troll. Absolutely noone who's in touch with reality could say that drivers and traffic are the same everywhere. But you drew me in to respond,so well trolled sir. ;)