Bicycle Mechanics - 3-IN-ONE - It may be worth a try

I needed to lube my chain last night before my morning 8 mile commute, and I had some 3-IN-ONE Oil in my cupboard. WOW that was the smoothest ride I have ever had. My chain was nearly SILENT. I have been using Tri-Flow and home brew. Is it true that this will gum up my chain? Have any of you actually had this stuff gum up? I remove and clean my chain occasionally, so if it does, I am not very concerned.

I used 3-in-1 years ago for bikes and other things. It will gum up and attract a lot of dirt, count on it.

Ya know cyclists really get snooty over chain lube. 3-1, motor oil, heck even WD-40 have their place. Optimal? Likely not. But if you keep it clean and adjusted all of these products will work just fine for many common applications. Modern lubes just buy you time between cleaning in many cases.

As a naive teenager, I always lubed my bike with 3-in-1 oil. I concur with both va_cyclist and CastIron; 3-in-1 WILL adequately lubricate you chain, but it is a dirt magnet. I still use it on gear and brake cables and on brake and derailleur pivots. I have also used it successfully in freewheels and in pedals I didn't have time to disassemble and rebuild properly. For chains, however, I have come to prefer White Lightning, just because it is alot cleaner and because it works well in a dry climate.

3-in-1 contains organic oil (i.e. vegetal); it will gum up, good luck on the next chain cleaning. Motor oil is actually very good for those applications that need oil: chain (athough it tends to run), cables, brake and derailleur pivots.

Ya know cyclists really get snooty over chain lube. For good reason
3-1,Has an organic compound that WILL gum up a chain
motor oil,Only if you thin it out with mineral spirits so it will actually get inside the rollers
heck even WD-40 have their place.Yeah it's called a trash can. WD-40 is a piss poor lube at best. I will admit it does bring in more business from people with rusted out chains. "I don't understand, I lubed it up with WD-40 whenever it started to squeek and now it's all rusted tight!" :lol:
Optimal? Likely not. Try not even close
But if you keep it clean and adjusted all of these products will work just fine for many common applications. Just not on a bicycle
Modern lubes just buy you time between cleaning in many cases. Gee a lube that lasts longer in between having to clean it off and reapply? Makes perfect sense to me

Point taken. WD is an excellent lube when the mercury drops to the single digits and lower. Fact is, when it's just plain cold and miserable, silicone and WD aerosol are about the only reliable lube I've found. Like I said, cyclists are amazingly snooty about this--sometimes for no good reason.
That said I've got a drawer of various hi-zoot lubes and use them regularly. They are not, however, a cure all.

I use regular motor oil on my chain. Well actually, it's over priced Mobil One 20w-50 (the thick stuff). It gets down inside the rollers just fine. Chain runs super quiet but kind of messy.

As far as I'm concern WD-40 is great stuff but is not the proper lube for chains. Nor is dry lube appropriate for chains except in extreem dusty and dry conditions.

I should take this moment to point out that WD-40 is in fact not much of a lube at all. Mostly, it's a cleaner. So if you are having wonderful success with WD-40 on your chain, it is because there is no salt on the ground or in the air, and no dirt anywhere.

I have and will continue to use WD-40 when cleaning chains. I don't have any simple green, I have tons of WD-40.

Of course, I always follow with a liberal application of rock 'n roll lube.

I use regular motor oil on my chain. Well actually, it's over priced Mobil One 20w-50 (the thick stuff). It gets down inside the rollers just fine. You sure about that? There's a reason why the motor oil folk thin out thier stuff
Chain runs super quiet but kind of messy.Understatement of the century. I've seen chains lubed with straight motor oil - 't ain't pretty

I use regular motor oil on my chain. Well actually, it's over priced Mobil One 20w-50 (the thick stuff). It gets down inside the rollers just fine. Chain runs super quiet but kind of messy.

I've never had a problem with it penetrating the rollers either. If it's too thick to get in a bike chain it isn't going to be much use in a motor engine where there are much tighter spaces that need lubrication.

SJK - It will be fine, no-one will die, the bike won't explode. The chain will appear dirty and start to "gum up" providing a useful indicator that it is time to clean and re-lubricate (sparingly).

I have been using castor oil (homebrew experiment) as chain lube - obviously this is "vegetable based". It is viscous like motor oil or the Finish Line Cross Country blends and works brilliantly. My chain has 2000 all weather miles from new and still measures 12" over 12 links, implying that this lube gets to the parts that matter. Yes, it gets dirty, but I can live with that.

I say ride on!

Cheers,

Ed

If it's too thick to get in a bike chain it isn't going to be much use in a motor engine where there are much tighter spaces that need lubrication.

Umm, yes, if you never turn it on. Methinks a car engine gets a tad hotter than a bike chain ;-)

Umm, yes, if you never turn it on. Methinks a car engine gets a tad hotter than a bike chain ;-)

Ahh, but capillary forces are a wonderful thing :) Besides, the metal surfaces are "attractive" to the oil (sorry, can't think of the appropriate term, perhaps lipophilic?) so it will wet the chain surfaces rapidly. The combination of these effects will have your rollers bathed in oil in no time. Finish line even produce a rather viscous "wet" lube - the Cross Country stuff is a good example. One might like to ponder the difference, in practice, that this would offer in comparison to motor oil. Then compare costs.

What to use for lubricant is somewhat academic anyway. I think the real issue is paying attention to regular cleaning according to the conditions seen by ones own chain. Don't let it get too dirty (unfortunately rather subjective), dont use too much lube and NEVER let it run dry.

Cheers,

Ed

Ahh, but capillary forces are a wonderful thing Besides, the metal surfaces are "attractive" to the oil (sorry, can't think of the appropriate term, perhaps lipophilic?) so it will wet the chain surfaces rapidly.

I don't know about "rapidly" - certainly less rapidly than something designed for bikes with a lower viscosity. But I'll admit I'm not enough of an engineer to argue real science with someone on this.

I was just pointing out the silliness in defending the incorrect use of a product by making a comparison that fails to take into account the single greatest environmental factor in its proper use, i.e. temperature.

To get back on topic, I've found that how you apply the lubricant is nearly as important as what you're using. Taking the time to treat each link at the "gaps" and wipe off excess will result in a much cleaner drivetrain than just spinning the crank and draining a can on the chain as it goes by. Of course, I've used 3-in-1 (and created enough chain and chainring gunk to create a new Pacific island chain!) so I'd better get off my high horse...

use finishline lube, this stuff has never steered me wrong (pun intended) and is specificly designed for being used on bikes.

use finishline lube, this stuff has never steered me wrong (pun intended) and is specificly designed for being used on bikes.
Perhaps the best advice of all. I've got three varieties in the shop. Love the stuff.

I've never had a problem with it penetrating the rollers either. If it's too thick to get in a bike chain it isn't going to be much use in a motor engine where there are much tighter spaces that need lubrication.

Yes. But an engine is a high temperature, pressurized oiling system.

And as far as staying clean, it is a closed and filtered system.

Motor oil is designed to hold contaminants in suspension. That means motor oil is supposed to attract dirt. That way it is carried away from the moving parts to the filter.

Yes. But an engine is a high temperature, pressurized oiling system.

And as far as staying clean, it is a closed and filtered system.

Motor oil is designed to hold contaminants in suspension. That means motor oil is supposed to attract dirt. That way it is carried away from the moving parts to the filter.
Exactly. Last I checked chains don't have filters

You sure about that? There's a reason why the motor oil folk thin out thier stuff[/color]


Regular motor oil works great. All it take is a couple couple spin of the cranks to get the lube to distribute down into the rollers. The only reason to thin the oil down (using mineral sprits works well if so inclined) is to provide some cleaning action.

I use straight motor oil on a clean chain and thinned down motor oil if the chain is looking dirty (and I don't feel like taking it off to properly clean). When using the thinned lube I wipe the chain off after applying liberal doses to get some cleaning action.

WD-40 works. I have used it almost exclusively without any ill effect like many people saying. I'm thinking they never used WD-40. I tried 3-in-one and motor oil also. They work equally good, WD-40 just little easier to apply. I have no idea why some people think the chain must be kept show room clean.

Bottom line is this. Any lubrication is better than no lubrication at all. I have used White Lightening and that was pretty close to no lubrication. I dropped it off at a hazardous waste site.

Of course, this is just one man's opinion. Not meant to go against anybody. You use whatever you prefer. It's your bike.

WD-40 is not a lube. It will act as lube while wet, but once it dries it provides NO lubrication.

What do you think the WD stands for? It's "Water Displacement". It works great as a cleaner, and excellent for removing sticker residue. The only time it should be used on a bike chain is after you've soaked the chain in degreaser and hosed it off to remove all the degreaser. Then you can spray the chain with WD-40 and let it dry overnight. Then lube with an actual lubricant.

I've been on these forums for a long long time. This topic comes up often. I'm curious. If scientist and engineers who do nothing all day but create lubricants designed for specific applications and uses (i.e. bicycle lubricants) have created a product, why do so many of us refuse to use them. I can hear my Dad's voice in the back of my head right now, "Right tool for the right job, Son!".

If there is a specific lube that costs, oh, 20% more, but does everything you need it too, why would anyone use an inferior product to perform at an inferior level just to save a buck?

I just don't understand why a person will spend more money for a step up in the component level (lets say 105 to Ultegra, or LX to XT) and then douse it with motor oil. It's a bike, there is no motor! Use the motor oil, oh let's see, IN YOUR MOTOR!

My years of science training are busting to make sense of this. I wish I had the resources to set up a chain testing laboratory. This way we could set up properly controlled experiments and establish some solid facts. The variables are interesting to consider, and would include at least the following:

Chain construction & materials (8,9,10 speed, plated parts etc.)
Lubricants, various, operated in clean dry conditions.
Lubricants, various, operated in simulated wet and or dirty conditions.

One could establish the time taken for a certain level of wear to occur in each test. The results could be presented as a paper to a peer-reviewed journal e.g. Advances in Applied Mechanics - and referenced here every time the "lube" question is asked.

But that would take all the fun out of it ;)

Ed

Also, Qudos to the poster who highlighted the importance of care in applying lube to the gaps at each link position.

Ed

mobile 1 is good and it doesn't attract dust. i think it was discontinued but i found a case at Big Lots for like 99 cents each.
http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/8899/10004428bb.jpg

I've been on these forums for a long long time. This topic comes up often. I'm curious. If scientist and engineers who do nothing all day but create lubricants designed for specific applications and uses (i.e. bicycle lubricants) have created a product, why do so many of us refuse to use them. I can hear my Dad's voice in the back of my head right now, "Right tool for the right job, Son!".

I used to work for a company that manufactured industrial cleaning chemicals. They produced maybe a half dozen different products. They sold close to 30 different products. People would happily pay 3 times the price for the professional line even though the stuff in the bottle was identical to the economy line.

What about the baking factory down the road from me that makes bread for lot of different people. Same bread gets put into different packaging and sells for a wide range of prices.

It happens so much elsewhere it's hard to believe it doesn't happen with bike lube. It's an easy thing for people to experiment with as well. Whats the worst that can happen? Use a useless lube and your chain just wears out qucker.

At least in my experience the importance of the lube is exaggerated. If you regularly clean and lube the actual lube you use isn't too important. At least from my own highly unscientific tests chain life is very similar with motor oil and wet bike lube.

WD-40 is not a lube. It will act as lube while wet, but once it dries it provides NO lubrication.

What do you think the WD stands for? It's "Water Displacement". It works great as a cleaner, and excellent for removing sticker residue. The only time it should be used on a bike chain is after you've soaked the chain in degreaser and hosed it off to remove all the degreaser. Then you can spray the chain with WD-40 and let it dry overnight. Then lube with an actual lubricant.

I've been on these forums for a long long time. This topic comes up often. I'm curious. If scientist and engineers who do nothing all day but create lubricants designed for specific applications and uses (i.e. bicycle lubricants) have created a product, why do so many of us refuse to use them. I can hear my Dad's voice in the back of my head right now, "Right tool for the right job, Son!".

If there is a specific lube that costs, oh, 20% more, but does everything you need it too, why would anyone use an inferior product to perform at an inferior level just to save a buck?

I just don't understand why a person will spend more money for a step up in the component level (lets say 105 to Ultegra, or LX to XT) and then douse it with motor oil. It's a bike, there is no motor! Use the motor oil, oh let's see, IN YOUR MOTOR!


All you have to do is take a look at the wide range of different chain lube products to realize that there is more than one "Right Tool" to quote you.

Motor oil has specific components inside that are not needed on a bicycle chain this is true, but I don't think there is anything left out either.

d D you make an interesting point. We never know how the bicycle or chain specific products have been designed or developed, and there is definitely an element of "niche marketing" that takes place.

There is lots of blurb on my bottle of Finish Line about special polymers, extreme pressure additives and water resistance. It appears to do no different a job than an application of castor oil to the chain, which was chosen for its similar viscosity to the Finish Line product. Perhaps if they were tested in laboratory conditions, something would distinguish the two.... I cannot.

Clean and lubricate the chain as needed - if you follow this rule, you will not go very far wrong whatever is used.

Ed

All you have to do is take a look at the wide range of different chain lube products to realize that there is more than one "Right Tool" to quote you.

Motor oil has specific components inside that are not needed on a bicycle chain this is true, but I don't think there is anything left out either.Yeah, this topic gets beat to death....
Same with grease...I wouldn't argue with anyone that uses straight mortor oil or even wd-40 and gets the results they are happy with. If you aren't trashing chains prematurely and can live with the chain life and results you get, what more is there? FWIW: one of the most AR engineers I know uses mobile1/mineal spirits home brew. But if someone thinks some 'bike specific' product has more 'engineering' behind it, knock yourself out.It's your money. You will just have less $$ for beer and carpet.

bump.

Just trying to make sure this thread doesn't die. I was gonna' go click off fifty miles on the Moots today, but . . . to be honest . . . I'd rather watch more chain clean/lube/changing dialogue :D

btw: since I went with 50/50 mineral spirits/Mobil 1, I've gotten taller, my teeth are whiter, and more women (and a couple of guys!) look at me when I ride. Call it anecdotal if you want. It's working for me ;)

Just trying to make sure this thread doesn't die.
This dead horse won't go away. No need to bump

PS: My personal second BEST use for WD40 is as a "Spot Weed Killer" for my lawn.........

Really? That's not what they said over at www.gardeningforums.com :)

...yes, that is what I meant to say. Oil has an affinity for the metal surface. I was thinking a little upside down, in that metal surfaces are generally hydrophobic, but that non-polar molecules such as "oils" and other hydrocarbons will wet them effectively. Unfortuately I was not explaining things clearly.... Apologies. I certainly did not mean to imply that WD40 is a chain lubricant ;)

Cleanliness and wear monitoring are the best line of defence in the chain wear wars.

Cheers,

Ed

I've followed a lot of these threads in the past year, since I started learning to maintain/fix bikes, and I would just like to add, from my very non-technical standpoint, the one message that I've got out of the ongoing lube/what kind/how often discussion is to simply maintain your moving parts.

I can't say how often I hear people ride by on bikes on the street with their chains squeeking to high heaven; I always have this irrational, almost monstrous urge to simply grab a hold of them, pull them off their bike and make them lube their chains. I agree that the most important point is not what kind of lube you use, but to monitor the parts that need the lube and keep them sated.

I've become a bit of a lube-your-chain fascist/disciple to all of my casual bike riding friends. Whenever one of them goes out and gets themself a beater, I show up at the door with a little bottle of Tri-Flow, crouch them down by the drivetrain with a rag, and spend a good 5-10 minutes lecturing them on the need to keep that puppy happy.

It seems to me that anyone posting or reading on threads like these gets the basic point: keep that chain lubed and smooth. Now I merely place a further duty upon us all, in the name of public bike health worldwide: Go forth, Spread the gospel, Keep your streets squeek-free!

I've followed a lot of these threads in the past year

Sort of tough to dodge them, eh?


since I started learning to maintain/fix bikes, and I would just like to add, from my very non-technical standpoint, the one message that I've got out of the ongoing lube/what kind/how often discussion is to simply maintain your moving parts.

If the mods would, I'd be ok closing this, and all past and future, chain lube threads right there: keep your chain reasonably clean, use something you like to lube it, lube it regularly, and after every ride in heavy rain. Homebrew is likely as good as anything else ... for most of us.


I can't say how often I hear people ride by on bikes on the street with their chains squeeking to high heaven; I always have this irrational, almost monstrous urge to simply grab a hold of them, pull them off their bike and make them lube their chains.

You'll feel amazing when you do. I've actually offered this up with the little bottle of TriFlow. People are really happy for that minor charitable act ;)


It seems to me that anyone posting or reading on threads like these gets the basic point: keep that chain lubed and smooth. Now I merely place a further duty upon us all, in the name of public bike health worldwide: Go forth, Spread the gospel, Keep your streets squeek-free!

Word.

Wow, you have so many contrasting opinions here, it would be hard to know which is accurate.

I suppose by this time, the answer has revealed itself. WD-40 does not provide lasting lubrication on a chain. Have you noticed you chain is dry and might even be squeeking now? Usually, about a week or two after using WD-40, the chain starts to squawk.

If you are looking for low-cost chain lubricants, get a can of chain lube at the automotive store. It is used for motorcycles and chainsaws. Price is about $2.50 per can. Gunk brand chain lube works well and the chain stays pretty clean. Gunk makes chain lube with and without Moly. Don't get the stuff with Moly in it - it is like goo and leaves a thick muck on the chain. It probably lubricates well, but the muck gets on your clothes.

Recently, I have been using motor oil on chains because I ran out of spray chain lube. It seems to work well, but I believe it will attract dirt which is 'dirty' and the dirt wears out your drive train.

A friend of mine uses White Lightning and he has the gummiest, waxiest mess of a chain I have ever seen. I would never ride with a chain that looked (and probably performed) like that. Oh, and isn’t White Lightning a “bike specific” chain lube.

WD-40 does not provide lasting lubrication on a chain. Have you noticed you chain is dry and might even be squeeking now? Usually, about a week or two after using WD-40, the chain starts to squawk.

- hmm... i use WD-40 on one bike's chain (older bike, older chain) and is does not 'squeak' after a week or so... of course, i do keep the chain clean... in fact, it's better for my use, as chains that are wax-lubed will rust out here (on a salt water-surrounded peninsula)... the downside is, as previously mentioned, possible overspray...

(btw, a bunch of us OFs get together once a week for lunch; several are retired Honeywell engineers, one of whom ran WD40 through some testing... he stated that the samples he tested revealed a mix of many different types of oils, along with traces of beeswax!)

- recently started using Prolink on a newer bike after i discovered rusted links on the previously wax-lubed chain... (replaced w/a Wipperman)... it appears to be my solution - YMMV

:-)

-

- recently started using Prolink on a newer bike after i discovered rusted links on the previously wax-lubed chain... (replaced w/a Wipperman)... it appears to be my solution - YMMV

:-)

Prolink is good stuff. I agree.

I use regular motor oil on my chain. Well actually, it's over priced Mobil One 20w-50 (the thick stuff).

Heaviest motor oil is actually SAE 40 http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=8264018&contentId=7007302 .

5 miles and a day later it seems to not be dripping anymore.. chain seems well-lubed

why not just use Prolink or Purple extreme & be happy :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

why not just use Prolink .... & be happy :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


+1

I have been using castor oil (homebrew experiment) as chain lube - obviously this is "vegetable based".
I say ride on!



Careful, some homebrew experiments involving castor beans can get you in trouble...

Any oil is fine including 3 in 1 oil. Many years ago I used 3 in 1 exclusively, but I always wiped the chain down with a rag so the non-contact parts were relatively dry. WD40 is a good cleaning agent to use periodically, wipe the chain dry and re-apply the 3 in 1. Use whatever works for you. Climate and riding conditions will effect the lubricant differently. I build my own wheels and recently went back to the use of linseed oil to lube and "set" my spokes after trying all of the spoke prep agents on the market. Linseed oil is the 3 in 1 equivalent in wheel building so do what makes you happy.

It happens so much elsewhere it's hard to believe it doesn't happen with bike lube. It's an easy thing for people to experiment with as well. Whats the worst that can happen? Use a useless lube and your chain just wears out qucker.

At least in my experience the importance of the lube is exaggerated. If you regularly clean and lube the actual lube you use isn't too important. At least from my own highly unscientific tests chain life is very similar with motor oil and wet bike lube.

This is so true. I'm amazed about how much talk there is about chains and lube. Some people take their chains off and clean weekly. I'm not sure what the point is - the chain lasts a few hundred miles more? So the time spent (30 minutes a week) for 26 weeks (13 hours) makes a $30 chain last 500 miles more. That isn't a very economical or productive use of anyone's time. I would take that time and ride more instead.

Why?

This is a topic that comes up quite regularly and I just don't get it. I use maybe $5.00 worth of chain lube per year at retail. The MOST that I could possibly benefit would be $5.00 per year and I maintain more bikes, both for myself and for others, than most people.

Brewing up a gallon or more of some concoction or using something that has properties designed for another purpose simply doesn't interest me.

I'm not sure what the point is - the chain lasts a few hundred miles more? So the time spent (30 minutes a week) for 26 weeks (13 hours) makes a $30 chain last 500 miles more. That isn't a very economical or productive use of anyone's time. I would take that time and ride more instead.

This is fine, if you measure your chain regularly to make sure that it hasn't lengthened due to wear. A lengthened chain causes greatly accelerated wear on your entire drivetrain. That's what the point is. Not saving the chain, the point is saving the drivetrain. If you don't spend much time keeping your chain clean, be sure to check it frequently for lengthening due to wear, and change it to a new chain as soon as it lengthens. Or, be prepared to buy a new cassette and chainrings.

I grease the chains on my BMX's after cleaning them with diesel, and on my multispeed I oil my chain with whatever is around, normally the semi-synthetic engine oil for my Yamaha.

I would argue, based on my experiences with motorcycle chains, that a constant stream of oil is a far better lubricant than any dry lube. Primarily because it cleans as it goes. If you don't like messy chains, or constantly oiling chains fine, that's a perfectly valid reason for not using a type of lubrication - just don't try and claim it's a more efficient lubrication.

I would argue, based on my experiences with motorcycle chains, that a constant stream of oil is a far better lubricant than any dry lube. Primarily because it cleans as it goes. If you don't like messy chains, or constantly oiling chains fine, that's a perfectly valid reason for not using a type of lubrication - just don't try and claim it's a more efficient lubrication.

True, unless you add dirt and grit to the equation. When grit is added to wet lubricant, you don't have lubricant any more, you have grinding compound. Literally. That's why dry-type lubes work better in very sandy climates (like mine). With wet lube, I can't keep a chain free of sandy grit for more than about 100 yards.

Besides, motorcycle chains usually have O-rings to keep grit out from inside the rollers. Bike chains don't.