Advocacy & Safety - Another cyclist down... when will it stop?

it just saddens my heart to see this on the front page of SFGate.com. beside the day starting off gloomy.. but after reading this.. it really sadden my heart as well as more worries about going out riding with my wife. i always have to keep looking backwards to see if she's ok and what not...

here is the story: SANTA ROSA: Big-rig truck hits, kills female bicyclist (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/09/13/BAG0GEMQEL1.DTL)

i hate reading about stuff like this - it happens way too often.

they say they are trying to determine who's at fault. if she was in a crosswalk, doesn't that require the truck to stop? i mean, crosswalk = right of way for pedestrians, right?

"Hines' bicycle was in a crosswalk when she was hit, Schlief said."

Sketchy info from which to determine fault, but the fact that she was entering the roadway from the sidewalk sounds problematic.
"Witnesses told police that Hines, who had been riding her bicycle on the sidewalk, turned into the road at the West Third Street intersection. At that moment, a delivery truck for Clover Stornetta dairy was making a right turn on a green light. Hines' bicycle was in a crosswalk when she was hit, Schlief said."

Don't know the story here, but bikes aren't made for sidewalks and riding from the sidewalk into the road can often be a problem.

Don't know the story here, but bikes aren't made for sidewalks and riding from the sidewalk into the road can often be a problem.

Exactly. It sounds like the same situation we had we a recent death in nearby Vienna.

When will it stop? Probably never. But it will slow down when ALL cyclists quit riding as if they are pedestrians, so they will better understand traffic flows, and motorists (and pedestrians too) will get more accustomed to seeing us where we belong, behaving like we're supposed to behave.

When will it stop? Probably never. But it will slow down when ALL cyclists quit riding as if they are pedestrians, so they will better understand traffic flows, and motorists (and pedestrians too) will get more accustomed to seeing us where we belong, behaving like we're supposed to behave.
And when and if the mentality ever changes from "get a bigger motor vehicle to protect myself from the others in their big motor vehicles" to "everyone is a person, and has their own rights".

For now it appears that the one with the most metal feels they own everything and can do anything. And unfortunately they most often win.

[N.B. Notwithstanding that the previous poster is probably right on regarding possible errors by cyclists.]

The story is tragic, loss of life always is. But if the cyclist wasn't obeying traffic laws it is not exactly a clear cut case of someone being run down by a vehicle. Just this morning I was walking to work and was almost hit from behind by a lady on a mountain bike, on the sidewalk, on the wrong side of the road.

If you are off your bike walking it across a crosswalk, you're a pedestrian and have right of way. If you're riding your bike across a crosswalk you have no more right of way than any other vehicle. If you're riding your bike on the sidewalk, you're breaking the law in most states.

It's especially sad for us because we all feel bad when someone on a bicycle dies, but we should also understand that we have to take responsibility for our own safety. The chances are slim that motorists are going to do that for us. I really feel when this happens to a child, because much of the time it's because their parents weren't properly supervising them and didn't teach them the proper way to ride.

She was likely within her rights to ride on the sidewalk, but unfortunately this is another reminder that doing so is not always necessarily safe, and is frequently less safe than riding on the road, despite what seems to be many people's intuition. Post this in A&S and you'll get an earful on that (and how to "solve" it).

As for riding with your wife: teach her not to ride on the sidewalk, not to weave in and out of parked cars, signal, ride on the right side of the street, etc.. The SJ Mercury News had an article on this recently with some actual good safety tips. Kinda going through the same thing with my wife . . .

in a very philosphoical way, i believe that most if not all accidents involving an automobile or truck is the driver's fault. if you remove the artifical laws that society creates and look at it as a case involving human interaction - it's the human who chooses to wrap itself in a multi-ton machine and barrel down the street who has turned it from a 'scratch on the knee accident' to a deadly situation. said simply - if he wasn't in a truck and they collided in an intersection on a bike or just walking around - nobody would be dead right now.

just my feeling...

in a very philosphoical way, i believe that most if not all accidents involving an automobile or truck is the driver's fault. if you remove the artifical laws that society creates and look at it as a case involving human interaction - it's the human who chooses to wrap itself in a multi-ton machine and barrel down the street who has turned it from a 'scratch on the knee accident' to a deadly situation. said simply - if he wasn't in a truck and they collided in an intersection on a bike or just walking around - nobody would be dead right now.

just my feeling...

I am not attacking you in any way just giving an opposing view. From my own experience as a cyclist who occassionally needs to drive, I think that everyone on the roads whether it is car, bike or pedestrians is responsible for being aware of the situation. If I am driving my car and a cyclist darts in front of me from off the curb and between two parked cars it is not 100% my fault as the driver if I strike the cyclist. If I am cycling along and I go from the road onto the sidewalk for whatever reason and then dart off the sidewalk across an intersection and I get hit because a driver turning right could not see me, I am at fault.

When gas is $5.oo a gallon, it will become less frequent.

The United States is the only place in the world where the excuse "I didn't see him/her/it" means anything other than that person is absolutely liable.

What a shame.

yes it seems this case is problematic.. if she was walking the bike over then it would be a different case.

i think the reason why some people ride on sidewalks is that a) they have fears of riding on the road with cars whooshing by at 25+mph. & b) lack of education that bicycle = vehicles in most states and vehicles isn't allowed on sidewalks.

i'm trying to teach my wife some rules of riding.. so hopefully she'll learn to be safe.

everyone out there... ride safe...

in a very philosphoical way, i believe that most if not all accidents involving an automobile or truck is the driver's fault. if you remove the artifical laws that society creates and look at it as a case involving human interaction - it's the human who chooses to wrap itself in a multi-ton machine and barrel down the street who has turned it from a 'scratch on the knee accident' to a deadly situation. said simply - if he wasn't in a truck and they collided in an intersection on a bike or just walking around - nobody would be dead right now.

just my feeling...

Uhhh yeah, and if there were only bicycles and pedestrians, than any accident would be the bicycists faullt with that logic. I suppose that would be a nice dreamland, but reality isn't philosphoical unfortunately. As for the woman, in a controlled intersection, if she was crossing on a red light or not yielding to traffic that has the right of way, then she is at fault. A crosswalk doesn't always guaruntee you the right of way.

i was never talking about reality. i'm just saying if hypotheically you could look just at the incident in a human versus human matter, i still believe the driver is more at fault. he made the situation dangerous. he choose to operate a vechical that he can't see out of and can't stop in time. if he wasn't in the truck making the turn that woman would not be dead. that's all i'm saying.

in reality, everyone has to be accountable for themselves, and we have laws to live by. we have to, otherwise there would be choas. often times there are differences between what i believe is truly "right" and what is technically "right". technically the woman may be at fault, i agree.

When gas is $5.oo a gallon, it will become less frequent.

Unlikly gas here is hovering at 3 a gallon little less little more you know the drill raise on one day lower on next etc. Well last night im at a stop sign and hear some one yell "get the f*** out of my way your wasting my gas." I hadnt even come to a full stop at the time and normaly when i see theres nothign there i slow to a crawl and move on or if its one or 2 cras i track stand and wave em by. Well this time i simply came to a full stop while taking the lane. 4 cars aproaching and i wove all of them on by then road off. I seen one was a rangers truck heading for the park. I was so hopign the moron behind me would follow me and harras me inside the park. That way the ranger could realy give him hell.

Uhhh yeah, and if there were only bicycles and pedestrians, than any accident would be the bicycists faullt with that logic. I suppose that would be a nice dreamland, but reality isn't philosphoical unfortunately. As for the woman, in a controlled intersection, if she was crossing on a red light or not yielding to traffic that has the right of way, then she is at fault. A crosswalk doesn't always guaruntee you the right of way.

Well we dont know why she was on the side walks. Maybe she was constantly harrased by motorists. Maybe a idiot cop warned here not to ride on the roads as it was against the law. I had this happen before its why i know carry a booklet with road related laws dealing with bikes etc all the time.

Or maybe she felt safer on the sidewalk and it was her fault. We just dont know what lead up to her being on the side walk.

A truck made a right turn and knocked her off the bike, then ran her over. That means the truck was going at a pretty good speed while making a right turn. If there was a pedestrian in the crosswalk or a baby carriage or anything else, that person would've suffered the same fate. I think the driver's at fault for driving so fast through a turn, even if he had the green light.

A truck made a right turn and knocked her off the bike, then ran her over. That means the truck was going at a pretty good speed while making a right turn. If there was a pedestrian in the crosswalk or a baby carriage or anything else, that person would've suffered the same fate. I think the driver's at fault for driving so fast through a turn, even if he had the green light.

That would be a logical conclusion if the pretense made sense. How fast does a truck need to be moving to knock someone off a bike and run over them? Could this not be done at say 5 MPH? 10? That's too fast? Why equate this to a pedestrian? That's where the problem is. A driver sees someone on the sidewalk, they think pedestrian speeds. That's maybe 3.5 MPH. They make decisions based on the projected intercept point. ie: pedestrian will not get to the intersection before I am well clear of the intersection. Bike rider on sidewalk is mentally registered as a pedestrian, while they are more likely traveling at least twice the expected speed, assuming they are going slow. That's one of the reasons that riding on the sidewalk is so dangerous. I know, I know, the driver should be watching. They are, but they have a lot more to watch than we do as cyclists. Experience can lead to complacency, you learn to expect certain things in certain situations. When an element in a situation is outside of the range of normal, complacency gets people hurt of killed.

If you are off your bike walking it across a crosswalk, you're a pedestrian and have right of way. If you're riding your bike across a crosswalk you have no more right of way than any other vehicle. If you're riding your bike on the sidewalk, you're breaking the law in most states.

Not true everywhere. In Virginia bicycles can ride on sidewalks unless specifically prohibited by the local jurisdiction (and most don't prohibit). When a bicycle is on a road, it is considered a vehicle. When it is on a sidewalk or path, it is considered a pedestrian, with some special responsibilities in dealing with other pedestrians. Any pedestrian or bicycle in a crosswalk always has the right of way over a vehicle turning into the roadway.

Near here, in Loudon County, VA they are having a very public discussion about bicycles at trail crossings after two cyclists were killed in two incidents at the end of August. If the Santo Rosa accident had happened in Virginia, the truck driver would have been entirely at fault.

I wonder if anyone has figured out what the different bikes-on-sidewalk laws are from state to state?

Sounds like a classic right hook, to which sidewalk cyclists are even more vulnerable than are gutter riders. She probably made her decision to enter the intersection without looking far enough back to make sure no one was coming to make a right turn. Particularly tragic, because right hooks are so easy for cyclists to avoid with proper habits and behavior.

When is it going to stop? Not until people stop using motor vehicles or bicycles as transportation.

Can the incidence of car-bike collisions be reduced? Absolutely. But only when cyclists realize that their own safety is their own responsibility, and that they can learn the habits and behavior required to ride in traffic safely. See the scuba thread if you're interested in this topic.

"Witnesses told police that Hines, who had been riding her bicycle on the sidewalk, turned into the road at the West Third Street intersection. At that moment, a delivery truck for Clover Stornetta dairy was making a right turn on a green light. Hines' bicycle was in a crosswalk when she was hit, Schlief said."

Don't know the story here, but bikes aren't made for sidewalks and riding from the sidewalk into the road can often be a problem.

Trying to walk across a crosswalk when any motorized anything wants to make a right turn on the green just plain sux azz. It's as bad or I say worse when you're a ped. In my area on roads of any size, there are these little "islands" separating the right turners and giving people trying to walk across a bit of a refuge for just this purpose.

Since the driver is on the left, and seeing a ped or biker crossing like a ped, in a crosswalk requires the driver to check out their blind spot or close to it, it basically ends up being up to the ped or biker to look around for any cars intending to turn right and to be safest, to let them go first. Which means when you do get to walk, the signal's about to change. Which is a fugged up way to have things set up.

in a very philosphoical way, i believe that most if not all accidents involving an automobile or truck is the driver's fault. if you remove the artifical laws that society creates and look at it as a case involving human interaction - it's the human who chooses to wrap itself in a multi-ton machine and barrel down the street who has turned it from a 'scratch on the knee accident' to a deadly situation. said simply - if he wasn't in a truck and they collided in an intersection on a bike or just walking around - nobody would be dead right now.

just my feeling...
I took a course in the Philosophy Dept. called Logic. Philosphoically(sic) your argument makes no sense.
Bikes are manmade machines that just aren't as fast or strong as trucks.
Do you really want us to believe that the natural law exists that says trucks must always yield to bikes.
Bikes must yield to pedestrians, pedestrians must yield to animals(multi-ounce hunks of plastic wrapped around their feet).
I really am sorry for the family of the person that died, but we all need to remember that biking can be very dangerous. Whether or not she had the right of way, the result remains the same. BE CAREFUL OUT THERE

BE CAREFUL OUT THERE

^^ WERD! i just wish that more money would be put into creating more fenced off bike trails. like in taiwan, in the capitol city.. on a very bz street.. the govt. developed a spot in the middle of the island just for cyclist. it's not fenced off, but at least it's a pretty big island just for cyclist to ride through.

if only if we have a fenced off bike lane on the highways, or freeways.. then that would be awesome. i drive on HWY 87 to work every day and seeing those VTA train running in the center of the HWY.. with some space on the side.. i'm thinking.. it would be awesome if that was available to cyclist to use to commute... that would be an ultimate nirvana riding along side with cars.. passing them up during traffic hours.. if a senator in cali is willing to do that.. i'll vote for him or her!

Do you really want us to believe that the natural law exists that says trucks must always yield to bikes.
Bikes must yield to pedestrians, pedestrians must yield to animals(multi-ounce hunks of plastic wrapped around their feet).


all i'm saying is that if one of the two people in this incident was not operating a giant truck, then there would not be a death. that's pure logic my friend.

i never said anything about who should yield. and i never mentioned natural laws at all.

are you sure you passed this course? and what are you talking about "multi-ounce hunks of plastic wrapped around their feet"? LOL.

It is the cyclist fault because she entered the crosswalk from a sidewalk??? Well, duh, that is exactly how EVERYONE enters a crosswalk. People walk off the sidewalk into the crosswalk. They jog off the sidewalk into the crosswalk. They ride bikes off the sidewalk into the crosswalk. And, motorists stop and let them cross. Not real difficult.

In forty years of driving, I've understood it was my duty as a driver NOT to drive across a cross-walk while there is a person in it, or attempting to enter it. I've never found this rule difficult to abide by. Never came within twenty feet of a person in the cross-walk.

I'd happily support a law making it mandatory life in prison for motorists who kills a person who is in the cross-walk. These are NOT accidents. They are murders.

if only if we have a fenced off bike lane on the highways, or freeways.. then that would be awesome. i drive on HWY 87 to work every day and seeing those VTA train running in the center of the HWY.. with some space on the side.. i'm thinking.. it would be awesome if that was available to cyclist to use to commute... that would be an ultimate nirvana riding along side with cars.. passing them up during traffic hours.. if a senator in cali is willing to do that.. i'll vote for him or her!

They have those in the Pacific Northwest... now I am not sure if it was Oregon or Washington or both, as I was in Portland, but also stayed north of the border in Washington. I do remember seeing bridges (of course... they are everywhere there) where the center was a bike path. I also recall seeing at least one "on ramp" for these freeway bike paths. It was a rather interesting layout, and the only way to cross the river, by freeway, on a bike path.

They have those in the Pacific Northwest... now I am not sure if it was Oregon or Washington or both, as I was in Portland, but also stayed north of the border in Washington. I do remember seeing bridges (of course... they are everywhere there) where the center was a bike path. I also recall seeing at least one "on ramp" for these freeway bike paths. It was a rather interesting layout, and the only way to cross the river, by freeway, on a bike path.

that's cool~ that would be awesome to cross the bridge on a bike path..

i was never talking about reality. i'm just saying if hypotheically you could look just at the incident in a human versus human matter, i still believe the driver is more at fault. he made the situation dangerous. he choose to operate a vechical that he can't see out of and can't stop in time. if he wasn't in the truck making the turn that woman would not be dead. that's all i'm saying.

in reality, everyone has to be accountable for themselves, and we have laws to live by. we have to, otherwise there would be choas. often times there are differences between what i believe is truly "right" and what is technically "right". technically the woman may be at fault, i agree.

I guess you think the train driver is at fault when someone decides to go past teh barriers and get by.

If the woman had done what every child is taught to do before crossing the street she would be alive.

I guess you think the train driver is at fault when someone decides to go past teh barriers and get by.

If the woman had done what every child is taught to do before crossing the street she would be alive.

not at all, we're talking about a truck driver who killed a woman in the crosswalk. who do you think killed the woman? herself? not really...it was a guy driving a truck. who happens to be 7 feet off the ground can see over other cars, has presumably passed a commercial drivers test, and has a responsibilty to look where he is going. especially when introducing a 40 ton machine to the city streets.

but again, like i said before (do you people read?), i believe technically the woman may be at fault. deep down in my gut though, i don't think it's entirely her fault. if a 40 ton truck wasn't on the street she wouldn't be dead. period. no matter how you look at it, he was the guy driving the truck who killed the woman.

all i'm saying is that if one of the two people in this incident was not operating a giant truck, then there would not be a death. that's pure logic my friend.

i never said anything about who should yield. and i never mentioned natural laws at all.

are you sure you passed this course? and what are you talking about "multi-ounce hunks of plastic wrapped around their feet"? LOL.
If people didn't "operate giant trucks", who the hell would bring the food that you buy to the stores? Maybe we could bike it in?

Stop and think, man. We're not even carfree yet, let alone truckfree. Until we are, cyclists need to learn how to ride safely with the other traffic.

It is the cyclist fault because she entered the crosswalk from a sidewalk??? Well, duh, that is exactly how EVERYONE enters a crosswalk. People walk off the sidewalk into the crosswalk. They jog off the sidewalk into the crosswalk. They ride bikes off the sidewalk into the crosswalk. And, motorists stop and let them cross. Not real difficult.

In forty years of driving, I've understood it was my duty as a driver NOT to drive across a cross-walk while there is a person in it, or attempting to enter it. I've never found this rule difficult to abide by. Never came within twenty feet of a person in the cross-walk. . . .
But cyclists can move into cross-walks far more quickly than pedestrians. I agree that it's a driver's duty not to hit people in cross-walks, but it's a cyclist's duty to ride like a driver of a vehicle, not like a fast-moving pedestrian.

By the way, it's cross-WALK, not cross-RIDE.

not at all, we're talking about a truck driver who killed a woman in the crosswalk. who do you think killed the woman? herself? not really...it was a guy driving a truck. who happens to be 7 feet off the ground can see over other cars, has presumably passed a commercial drivers test, and has a responsibilty to look where he is going. especially when introducing a 40 ton machine to the city streets.

but again, like i said before (do you people read?), i believe technically the woman may be at fault. deep down in my gut though, i don't think it's entirely her fault. if a 40 ton truck wasn't on the street she wouldn't be dead. period. no matter how you look at it, he was the guy driving the truck who killed the woman.

Woman rides off road and hits tree. Let's blame the tree! After all it would not be entirely her fault. If that 40 ton tree wasn't by the street she wouldn't be dead. Let's cut down all the trees to prevent this from happening!!

But cyclists can move into cross-walks far more quickly than pedestrians. I agree that it's a driver's duty not to hit people in cross-walks, but it's a cyclist's duty to ride like a driver of a vehicle, not like a fast-moving pedestrian.

By the way, it's cross-WALK, not cross-RIDE. Exactly. As a driver you might've checked the crosswalk and seen the coast was clear so you proceed to turn - and suddenly out of nowhere a 15 mph cyclists flies into your path... There isn't much time for you to do anything.

When I just started cycling, there was a brief period when I rode on the sidewalks before I saw the light and learned about VC. Once I smashed into a car coming out of a driveway and in no way it was the driver's fault. When he was checking for pedestrians I was too far away to even be noticed.

Good Lord , this has turned into the most ridiculous discussion on the advocacy forum.
No wonder the general public doesn't take cyclists seriously.

if a 40 ton truck wasn't on the street she wouldn't be dead. period. no matter how you look at it, he was the guy driving the truck who killed the woman.
Woman rides off road and hits tree. Let's blame the tree! After all it would not be entirely her fault. If that 40 ton tree wasn't by the street she wouldn't be dead. Let's cut down all the trees to prevent this from happening!!
ROTFLOL! Post of the week!

Seriously, just because the truck was moving does mean it was significantly different from being a tree. A pedestrian does not have the right-of-way to enter a crosswalk, even on a green light, if doing so puts him in front of a vehicle that cannot safely and reasonably stop in time.



Once I smashed into a car coming out of a driveway and in no way it was the driver's fault. When he was checking for pedestrians I was too far away to even be noticed.
Exactly!



Good Lord , this has turned into the most ridiculous discussion on the advocacy forum.
What's ridiculous about it? It raises an important cycling safety issue that many cyclists disagree about it. It needs to be discussed more, not shutdown with ridicule.

Good Lord , this has turned into the most ridiculous discussion on the advocacy forum.
No wonder the general public doesn't take cyclists seriously.
Huh? What do you find ridiculous? I think it's going pretty good.

Exactly. As a driver you might've checked the crosswalk and seen the coast was clear so you proceed to turn - and suddenly out of nowhere a 15 mph cyclists flies into your path... There isn't much time for you to do anything.

When I just started cycling, there was a brief period when I rode on the sidewalks before I saw the light and learned about VC. Once I smashed into a car coming out of a driveway and in no way it was the driver's fault. When he was checking for pedestrians I was too far away to even be noticed.
Been there done that too. On the rare occasions when I ride on the sidewalk, I look right - left - ahead - behind, every damn time I cross a driveway or cross street. It's exhausting! Much more relaxing to ride in the street, where God wants us to be.

oh dear. that's terrible. i dunno if it's because of my recent interest in riding that i find out about these things, or that it's just happening more often. i thought for a second that they just don't care. i had an image of people gathering around a water cooler going: hey. ya know, i just picked off another cyclist this morning.
but that's just silly.
seems to me, though, if you were in a car and trying to pass a wide turning semi on the right, or trying to make a right turn given the same situation, you would be at fault. riding a bike down a sidewalk and doing the same would be similar.
i heard this happen today while having coffee. when i got up to see what happened, my assessment was that the van that hit the biker was turning right, and the biker was coming (quick?) down the sidewalk trying to make the light before it changed and didn't stop to make sure it was clear. could be the van had checked and seeing no one at the crosswalk, turned. here comes johnny biker down the sidewalk, anticipating the yellow, makes a go for it... but that's just what i gathered from the scene. the biker was not hurt badly, thank goodness, but i walked away feeling he was at fault...
i wonder when people will start either riding in the street like a normal rider or stopping at crosswalks until the coast is clear. whatever happened to walking across the crosswalk. it all makes sense to me now.

Sarah was my boss and close friend's girlfriend. The craziest thing about this whole accident was that she NEVER rides on the sidewalk. None of us do. It's such a painful thing to have happen that everyone wants to point blame somewhere- when really there's no way of knowing.... plus, how can you say "it was the cyclist fault" when they had to remove her body from underneath a semi? I'm not really able to articulate the way I feel right now, because I wish Sarah were still alive.

She should have looked to see if it was clear, maybe she did. One thing I have notcied about this state is that NO ONE uses their turn signal, so maybe she did look and it didn't seem like he was turning.

Whatever it is, it is unfortunate that she is dead because she didn't drive her car.

Sarah was my boss and close friend's girlfriend. The craziest thing about this whole accident was that she NEVER rides on the sidewalk. None of us do. It's such a painful thing to have happen that everyone wants to point blame somewhere- when really there's no way of knowing.... plus, how can you say "it was the cyclist fault" when they had to remove her body from underneath a semi? I'm not really able to articulate the way I feel right now, because I wish Sarah were still alive.

She should have looked to see if it was clear, maybe she did. One thing I have notcied about this state is that NO ONE uses their turn signal, so maybe she did look and it didn't seem like he was turning.

Whatever it is, it is unfortunate that she is dead because she didn't drive her car.
I'm sorry for your loss.

You are right, we don't have enough facts to decide who was at fault in this particular accident. Because the details are so sketchy, we were all making comments based of guesses about the facts. The guesses help us discuss how we can ride more safely, but they must be painful to people close to the cyclist.

Sarah was my boss and close friend's girlfriend. The craziest thing about this whole accident was that she NEVER rides on the sidewalk. None of us do. It's such a painful thing to have happen that everyone wants to point blame somewhere- when really there's no way of knowing.... plus, how can you say "it was the cyclist fault" when they had to remove her body from underneath a semi? I'm not really able to articulate the way I feel right now, because I wish Sarah were still alive.

She should have looked to see if it was clear, maybe she did. One thing I have notcied about this state is that NO ONE uses their turn signal, so maybe she did look and it didn't seem like he was turning.

Whatever it is, it is unfortunate that she is dead because she didn't drive her car.

sorry about your loss, and sorry for derailing the conversion somewhat in this thread. we've had a bunch of cyclist die in large truck type incidents lately in new york. garbage trucks, semi's, box trucks, you name it. i get pretty angry because it seems to happen every week and it's shrugged off as the cost of doing business. the cost of doing business shouldn't include human lives - no matter who was technically at fault. something just ain't right when everytime you open the paper another person is struck dead by a truck. but the bottom line is that we'll never win against a truck, so we all got to watch ourselves. seriously people, be careful out there.

When gas is $5.oo a gallon, it will become less frequent.

No, it'll become worse. There will always be enough cars to kill any number of cyclists, but as gas prices go up, there will be more and more clueless cyclists riding around in idiotic ways.

For Pete's sake people. How can you come to judgment from a situation described by three sentences in a newpaper article? She got hit and killed - that's really all we know.

If you want to discuss techniques, perhaps it is better to create your own case study for analysis, complete with a cast of generic characters, instead of trying to extrapolate a "lesson" from 3 sentences in an article. Maybe move it to a different thread.

Here, discuss your grief, your condolences, and any rants you have. Don't assign fault or blame. Don't get into discussions about how the person you never met could have gotten out of a situation you didn't witness using your favorite cycling technique. Don't lay out absolutes such as "...never ride in the sidewalk" or "...regardless of the legality, the cyclist killed was wrong because she should have looked."

We need to discuss these issues, but do this in a sister thread. Be decent. Some people who frequent these boards know the person killed. The last thing they want is for come VC'er with an agenda coming out and saying how their friend was at fault for not defending his/her-self properly.

It's such a painful thing to have happen that everyone wants to point blame somewhere- when really there's no way of knowing....
I'm really sorry for your loss.

A lot of experienced cyclists don't ride on sidewalks because it's impractical for them to do so, not because they realize how dangerous it can be. That's why it's easy for someone like that to be careless on the rare occasion when riding on the sidewalk turns out to be useful for some reason or another. Of course, I don't know if that was a factor in this situation. But, for the purposes of the readers of this forum, some of whom likely fall into the category of cyclists who avoid sidewalks because they're impractical and not because they realize they're dangerous, crass as it may seem, this tragedy presents an opportunity to make very clear how dangerous sidewalk cycling can be, if you're not extremely careful. If this makes just one cyclist out there a bit more careful next time they ride on a sidewalk, we could possibly help avoid another tragic death. That's the point of all the hypothesis and conjecture in the threads about cyclist deaths. And, since doing so might save a life, I think it's justified, crass as it may seem.

Again, I'm very sorry for your loss. My heart goes out to Sarah's family, friends and loved ones.

Does anyone know California Law regarding bikes riding on sidewalks?
I was reading the California Vehicle Code and I couldn't find where it was prohibited.

The other question is if the intersection was controled and if she crossed against the signal. From the CVC, if it was an uncontroled crossing, the truck was required to yeild to anything in the road he was turning on to.

In forty years of driving, I've understood it was my duty as a driver NOT to drive across a cross-walk while there is a person in it, or attempting to enter it. I've never found this rule difficult to abide by. Never came within twenty feet of a person in the cross-walk.

How far back is the driver obliged to look? If the cyclist is doing 20 on a sidewalk, a truck could easily not be able to stop in time to avoid hitting the person even if the person is 50 feet away from the crosswalk when the driver looks.

Sidewalks and crosswalks are designed for pedestrians. If a cyclist wants to use it, that's fine, but they should limit themselves to ped behavior; 4 MPH and obey crossing signals.

I'm not taking a position on this particular incident, but I don't think bikes should be on sidewalks, and I don't believe that if someone is hit at a crosswalk, the driver is at fault no matter what. Even a pedestrian could jump in front of a truck at the last second and get killed; that's NOT the driver's fault.

How far back is the driver obliged to look? If the cyclist is doing 20 on a sidewalk, a truck could easily not be able to stop in time to avoid hitting the person even if the person is 50 feet away from the crosswalk when the driver looks.

Sidewalks and crosswalks are designed for pedestrians. If a cyclist wants to use it, that's fine, but they should limit themselves to ped behavior; 4 MPH and obey crossing signals.

I'm not taking a position on this particular incident, but I don't think bikes should be on sidewalks, and I don't believe that if someone is hit at a crosswalk, the driver is at fault no matter what. Even a pedestrian could jump in front of a truck at the last second and get killed; that's NOT the driver's fault.

Unless you're brave or stupid, nobody does 20 mph on the sidewalk.

Unless you're brave or stupid, nobody does 20 mph on the sidewalk.

Either way, there are a lot that fit that bill near me. OK honestly they are only going 17 or 18, but if they had better bikes or legs they would be going 20 or faster, including when they enter the intersection.

Sarah was my boss and close friend's girlfriend. The craziest thing about this whole accident was that she NEVER rides on the sidewalk. None of us do. It's such a painful thing to have happen that everyone wants to point blame somewhere- when really there's no way of knowing.... plus, how can you say "it was the cyclist fault" when they had to remove her body from underneath a semi? I'm not really able to articulate the way I feel right now, because I wish Sarah were still alive.

She should have looked to see if it was clear, maybe she did. One thing I have notcied about this state is that NO ONE uses their turn signal, so maybe she did look and it didn't seem like he was turning.

Whatever it is, it is unfortunate that she is dead because she didn't drive her car.

sorry for your loss.. news of what happens to any cyclist is a tremendous loss to cycling community.