Advocacy & Safety - Here's the attitude I deal with on my commute in Atlanta

Saw this in my Atlanta paper on Monday in the "Vent" section and wondered how people would respond to it. Looks like I can expect more of the same treatment from drivers as I've been getting over the last 3 years of training (for racing) and commuting. Anyway, this lady posted this below and it was followed by the two comments that follow:

On Monday this was in the paper:
"To all those people who insist on giving my husband no room as he commutes on his bike to work, I just wanted you to know that he is the father of two and a teacher to many of your little ones. He is riding to work so that we can eat at home. Please give him a little room."

Today, two responses:
"To the wife of the biking teacher: Roads weren’t created for bikes. Tell him to use sidewalks."
and
"Lady, we don’t care about your husband riding a bicycle. He’d better watch where he’s going or he’ll be a hood ornament."

The "Vent" section of the Atlanta Journal Constitution is often referred to as the first thing people read when they get the paper. Too bad there are so many people on the road who hold these type views. I started road riding to train better for my Mountain Bike races and over the last two years have been commuting from the Vinings area of Atlanta to Woodstock/Canton area (about 28 miles one way). I've had very good experiences riding "in town" during lunch training rides, but have encountered a lot of grief the closer I get to my houes in the burbs. Oh well...

I guess 5$ a gal is still not enough for those knucklheads. They will never get it.

Today, two responses:
"To the wife of the biking teacher: Roads weren’t created for bikes. Tell him to use sidewalks."
and
"Lady, we don’t care about your husband riding a bicycle. He’d better watch where he’s going or he’ll be a hood ornament."

Pray for $10 gas.

When gas hits $10 we're all going to have problems, particularly those struggling to eat already.

When gas hits $10 we're all going to have problems, particularly those struggling to eat already.

At some point, our nation will have to stop using price as the means of demand control, and switch to allocating fuel on the basis of public interest. First, food, medical care, last, fuel used for entertainment.

As a weekender cyclist, how can I try to commute by bike with psychos like that here in Atlanta?

Dare I venture amongst the flippant would-be bicycle killers? I bought a visibility flag, striped it with reflective tape, and got dog tags so the pramedics know my name, etc.

It's not even a long ride, just 11 miles, but I don't want to die over this.

At some point, our nation will have to stop using price as the means of demand control, and switch to allocating fuel on the basis of public interest. First, food, medical care, last, fuel used for entertainment.

Yeah. Kinda like communism.

Today, two responses:
"To the wife of the biking teacher: Roads weren’t created for bikes. Tell him to use sidewalks."
and
"Lady, we don’t care about your husband riding a bicycle. He’d better watch where he’s going or he’ll be a hood ornament."


That's just awful.

There was a similar letter printed in our paper on Sunday. Not as nasty. Today they printed my letter where I spell out the section of the law that says I'm allowed full right to the road. I hope that'll teach 'em, but I won't hold my breath.

People like the letter writing driver are by themselves enough reason to explain why the US needs to lose it's cheap oil.

At some point, our nation will have to stop using price as the means of demand control, and switch to allocating fuel on the basis of public interest. First, food, medical care, last, fuel used for entertainment.So, we'll totally abandon capitalism?
from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

So, we'll totally abandon capitalism?

I don't know. How would you handle it, knowing that fuel supply is limited and will become increasingly limited in the future?

Let the market work, until farmers are out of business, and there is no food on the shelves?
Witness the farmers fuel protests in Europe.

Capitalism would survive the loss of oil--without being called such, it existed for a few thousand years before either oil or automobiles. Private automobiles, though, are a damned good argument against capitalism!

As a weekender cyclist, how can I try to commute by bike with psychos like that here in Atlanta?


The bombastic would be killers are more bark than bite, and are found everywhere. They love to spout off on radio talk shows and in letters to the editor. What makes them bad, and they should not be given a voice for the their hate speech, is that it can incite others to harm. Clear channel radio has been stung by call in bike haters.

As a weekender cyclist, how can I try to commute by bike with psychos like that here in Atlanta?

Dare I venture amongst the flippant would-be bicycle killers? I bought a visibility flag, striped it with reflective tape, and got dog tags so the pramedics know my name, etc.

It's not even a long ride, just 11 miles, but I don't want to die over this.

I've been riding 40 miles round trip for two years for my commute. I've only had a handful of incidents. In the same time period, I'd have experienced far more vehicular road rage had I been in my car.

Most flippant would be bicycle killers are a collection of misanthropic cowards.

Capitalism would survive the loss of oil--without being called such, it existed for a few thousand years before either oil or automobiles. Private automobiles, though, are a damned good argument against capitalism!

Let's try to keep in mind that autos have only been around about a 100 years or so, both this nation and capitalism have existed much longer than that.... as have bicycles. :D

Private autos may have run their course, only time will tell... along with the increasing price of fuel.

So, we'll totally abandon capitalism?

No, let's all starve to death as a display of sacrifice to ensure an unregulated free market continues to dominate the fuel commodities sector.

Jesus Christ, people. Your water, phones, electricity, gas and cable are regulated. Why would one more regulation of vital supplies serve as the catalyst for us to slip into pure Marxism? The sky is falling!!!

This thread seemed to cry out for this- one of my favorite C & H's:

http://home.comcast.net/~shetzer/images/ch930428_small.jpg

...it existed for a few thousand years before either oil or automobiles.

How d'ya figure?

Not too long ago I recieved the standard "get on the sidewalk" call. I was hauling my son in his burley and some construction forced me into traffic. I followed the guy who said it and when he was stopped by a train I pulled up and told him that I had the same right of way that he does. He didn't say much, but this is when he realized that I was a good bit larger than him and that the 3500lb vehicle he was safely advising me from earlier could no longer move. I guess he decided to take a passive role at this point. I thought about this and wondered if he knew that a 3 year old little boy was in the burley, and if that would have made a difference.
And I don't believe it would have. I am not sure if there is any place in the 1st world where getting a drivers license is easier and car ownership is so wide spread. The automobile in America is a source of national identity to most and I do not feel that it will change in our lifetime.
Education has a small effect and short of forcing people to ride they just do not understand. Everytime we get on the road we are minnows swimming with sharks, the only real difference is that real minnows don't bother trying to convince the sharks not to eat them.

I am not sure if there is any place in the 1st world where getting a drivers license is easier and car ownership is so wide spread. The automobile in America is a source of national identity to most and I do not feel that it will change in our lifetime.
Education has a small effect and short of forcing people to ride they just do not understand. Everytime we get on the road we are minnows swimming with sharks, the only real difference is that real minnows don't bother trying to convince the sharks not to eat them.

Boy isn't that the truth ("I am not sure if there is any place in the 1st world where getting a drivers license is easier"). A co-worker from China is visiting the US branch of the company for a month... he was able to go out and get a California license... no problem. Meanwhile in his native China, he still has classes to attend before he can be issued a license there.

I somewhat cringe at the thought of other drivers like him out on the the roads without any form of formal driving education.

RE the minnows... Well, we do have laws... :rolleyes:

At some point, our nation will have to stop using price as the means of demand control, and switch to allocating fuel on the basis of public interest. First, food, medical care, last, fuel used for entertainment.

Read this:

PLANNING IS SOCIALISM by Ray Haynes (http://www.mises.org/story/1910)

I somewhat cringe at the thought of other drivers like him out on the the roads without any form of formal driving education.
If you cringe from that thought, then you must be in denial about the fact that incompetent driving that could have been fixed with better driver education is a significant factor in only a tiny percentage of car-bike collisions and fatalities.

What makes me cringe is the thought of the vast majority of cyclist deaths and injuries that are caused by a lack of cyclist education, which is ultimately caused by a lack of concern in the cycling community about promoting the benefits of cyclist education. Instead, many members of the cycling community are doing stuff like cringing about relatively minor problems over which they have little or no control.

I have a real problem with papers publishing editorials or rants that include statements that suggest behaviors that are illegal or go against what is legally allowed (such as riding in street) or that include plain wrong 'facts' Publishing opinions is one thing, but lies or misinformation another. Not just in regard to these specific rants, but opinion pages in general. (and I am not talking about 'debatable' facts, but ones that are clearly wrong if any fact checking was done by an unbiases source)

I understand it is a rant page intended to stir up controversy, but the editors should provide comment on what is legally allowed (i.e. at minimum ed. note: cyclist are legally permitted on road) if a rant is perpetuating an expectation of cyclist that can be dangerous and in some states not legal by riding on sidewalk.

Al

It might be a good idea to respond to those two responses with a few facts, like roads are made for bikes and sidewalks aren't. If that section of the paper really is the first thing people read then it would be a shame to allow those two hostile comments go unanswered.

Actually, the second guy is just being honest and makes a good point. "Lady, we don’t care about your husband riding a bicycle. He’d better watch where he’s going or he’ll be a hood ornament."

Does anyone expect drivers to care about cyclists? Wake up!

Does anyone seriously doubt that cyclists should watch where we're going in order to avoid becoming hood ornaments? Of course we should!

If you cringe from than thought, you must be in denial about the fact that incompetent driving that could have been fixed with better driver education is factor in only a tiny percentage of car-bike collisions and fatalities.

I cringe at the thought of the vast majority of cyclist deaths and injuries that are caused by a lack of cyclist education, which is ultimately caused by a lack of concern in the cycling community about educating cyclists, which is instead cringing about relatively minor problems over which they have little or no control.

Jeeze... another over the top statement about cyclists' education while totally regarding the lack of education by those piloting 4000 lb vehicles on the roads with impunity.

Regarding cyclist education... of the 700 or so killed last year, how many were experienced verses inexperienced? Is there any data available on cyclist experience or training verses accident rate?

And how do you plan on reaching those inexperienced cyclists with education programs anyway?

Actually, the second guy is just being honest and makes a good point.

Agreed.

The first response is ignorant. What is wrong with the second ?

It is a rant section.

He didn't say ' If he doesn't stay on the sidewalk he will become a hood ornament'

If you cringe from than thought, you must be in denial about the fact that incompetent driving that could have been fixed with better driver education is factor in only a tiny percentage of car-bike collisions and fatalities.

I cringe at the thought of the vast majority of cyclist deaths and injuries that are caused by a lack of cyclist education, which is ultimately caused by a lack of concern in the cycling community about educating cyclists, which is instead cringing about relatively minor problems over which they have little or no control.

This is where Serge and I differ. I believe that, through tactful-but-outspoken political advocacy, we CAN have at least some control over motorist accountability and bicycle-friendly road and intersection design. Although I concur that bad cycling causes more cyclist deaths than bad motoring, bad (incompetent, inattentive, inebriated, impatient, irate, etc.) motorists are, by default, the greatest threat to lawful vehicular "effective" cyclists. Just ask Dave and Betty Johnson or the families of Cece Krone, Larry Mahr, Ken Keiffer, or Patrick Klokow. Let us accept the often-stated assertion that bicycling is roughly as safe as motoring. The last time I checked, motor vehicle collisions were the greatest killer of teenagers and young adults. Is a fatality rate of three TWA Flight 800s per week acceptable? We can do much better, America, but it will require attitude adjustment, education, and an ethical regard for one's fellow citizens.

I do not "lack concern about educating cyclists," (I have politely told plenty of bicyclists to get on the right side of the road, to get lights, to stay LEFT of right-turn-only lanes, etc.) but this is only part of the equation.

Actually, the second guy is just being honest and makes a good point. "Lady, we don’t care about your husband riding a bicycle. He’d better watch where he’s going or he’ll be a hood ornament."

Does anyone expect drivers to care about cyclists? Wake up!

Does anyone seriously doubt that cyclists should watch where we're going in order to avoid becoming hood ornaments? Of course we should!
I was critizing only the first point and noting that the editors should have made a editorial comment about what is legal.

I do want (but dont expect) drivers to care about cyclist, just as I want strangers to do what they can do avoid killing, maiming and attacking other strangers. It is perhaps an ideal, but I think I can still want if not expect it of other humans.

Of course cyclists need to watch where they are going, its a must. But the second statement was agressive and anti cyclist. Better would be to say "Both cyclists and motorists need to watch where they are going to help avoid traffic accidents." (but then it wouldn't be a rant) The 'hood ornament' crap is just agressive posturing and uncalled for, the implication is you better watch your back because I'm not gonna slow to avoid killing you. How can cyclist merge for left turns without motorists watching where they are going and accomidating slower vehicles?

Al

Al

Dont get mad, get even. Really though this is BS. Don't the drunken NASCAR lovers of Atlanta know that there is a lot of paper work to fill out when you kill someone by accident?

I registered to
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/vent/wednesday.html
mailto:vent@ajc.com

Apparently you can take drivers education online now. So much for education. I know how to cut and paste, don't you? I know how to hit the back button and do a search to find the answer, don't you?

Obviously more responsibility, better education, better training will make using the roads safer for all modes of use. More should be done to reduce all vehicular accidents including the subset of motorized vehicle/bicycle accidents. Part of this 'more' should include education on cycling laws.

Al

We can do much better, America, but it will require attitude adjustment, education, and an ethical regard for one's fellow citizens.
Totally agree. Its a disgrace how many people die each year from vehicular accidents. Its a disgrace the attitude about driving being a game (cite recent ford mustang commercial of reckless driving to get an early start on you mid life crisis)

Al

I emailed this to the vent.

To the Lady whose husband bikes to work--
I may be a big, lazy, suv loving idiot but if more people biked to work, I'd pay less for gas, so thanks I guess. Also my brother inlaw hit some fool biker last year and had to fill out a mountain of paperwork so I'll try not to hit your hubby the next time I am in a hurry to get to work.

Read this:

PLANNING IS SOCIALISM by Ray Haynes (http://www.mises.org/story/1910)

What a load of nonsense. The guy argues that social planning doesn't work because free market forces override it and hamper it.

I figured, logically, his conclusion would be to give teeth to the social planners and allow them power to override the developers (whom he blames for the terrible state of our infrastructure). But, inexplicably, his answer is to stop planning altogether and allow the market forces to dictate 100% of what gets built where.

Do you seriously buy into this illogical nonsense?

Yeah. Kinda like communism.
Public roads are already a form of communism...maybe we should all boycott them and only use private toll roads RGC

Public roads are already a form of communism...maybe we should all boycott them and only use private toll roads RGC

Interstate Highway System.....aka autobahn. The VW Bug is alive and well. Our prisons house negros, the mentally ill, and political dissidents on two wheels. And, the police are used as the Speech Gestapo. Is America really any different than the Nazis?

This is where Serge and I differ. I believe that, through tactful-but-outspoken political advocacy, we CAN have at least some control over motorist accountability and bicycle-friendly road and intersection design. Although I concur that bad cycling causes more cyclist deaths than bad motoring, bad (incompetent, inattentive, inebriated, impatient, irate, etc.) motorists are, by default, the greatest threat to lawful vehicular "effective" cyclists. Just ask Dave and Betty Johnson or the families of Cece Krone, Larry Mahr, Ken Keiffer, or Patrick Klokow. Let us accept the often-stated assertion that bicycling is roughly as safe as motoring. The last time I checked, motor vehicle collisions were the greatest killer of teenagers and young adults. Is a fatality rate of three TWA Flight 800s per week acceptable? We can do much better, America, but it will require attitude adjustment, education, and an ethical regard for one's fellow citizens.

I do not "lack concern about educating cyclists," (I have politely told plenty of bicyclists to get on the right side of the road, to get lights, to stay LEFT of right-turn-only lanes, etc.) but this is only part of the equation.


Thanks John and very well said... motorists cannot seem to keep out of each others' way... so obviously there is some sort of "problem" with the motorist community in general.

motorists cannot seem to keep out of each others' way... so obviously there is some sort of "problem" with the motorist community in general.
Exactly, I am just as (actually more so) terrified of other motorists while driving as I am when cycling. The stunts drivers pull these days and get away with are obscene. And it self escalates as other drivers feel they have to respond aggressively just to 'survive'. I only see it getting worse as more and more drivers have learned their driving skills and behaviors from video games and television. Other people are viewed as 'points' or 'hood ornaments' not children, parents, fellow human beings.

Al

Read this:

PLANNING IS SOCIALISM by Ray Haynes (http://www.mises.org/story/1910)

Not there's anything wrong with it (socialism).

At some point, our nation will have to stop using price as the means of demand control, and switch to allocating fuel on the basis of public interest. First, food, medical care, last, fuel used for entertainment.


To each according to his need, from each according to his ability.

lmao

To each according to his need, from each according to his ability.

lmao

Ask not what your country can do for you.....................................

Saw this in my Atlanta paper on Monday in the "Vent" section and wondered how people would respond to it.

Forget this forum, didn't you quote from the DMV handbook and respond to the "vent" that driving/riding on roads is a priviledge, not a right. Semi's, bikes, motorcycles and buses also have a right to the roadway.

Unless, those drivers want to pay us a monthly stipend to stay off the roads.
;)

It might be a good idea to respond to those two responses with a few facts, like roads are made for bikes and sidewalks aren't. If that section of the paper really is the first thing people read then it would be a shame to allow those two hostile comments go unanswered.
Seconded. Vent back!

(Is the Vent section online? I couldn't find it, but it asked me to register after a few pages and I didn't feel like it, so I didn't have much of a chance to look.)

"Watch out or you'll be a hood ornament". Really. Who breeds these creatures anyway?

All is not lost. Although every place has it's weirdos and @-holes, some places are better than others.

Bikeforums.net has had many threads about the mentality of drivers in different locations. For a while, we were getting some scary reports from the south; especially Atlanta and most of Texas. There are some long-time veterans like our very own Little Big Man Pete who has been commuting in Atlanta for years and could probably tell us some stories.

Everybody has some complaints - myself included, but it isn't all bad. The world isn't all going to hell, folks, even if at times it seems like it is.

Today, two responses:
"To the wife of the biking teacher: Roads weren’t created for bikes. Tell him to use sidewalks."
and
"Lady, we don’t care about your husband riding a bicycle. He’d better watch where he’s going or he’ll be a hood ornament."

Attitudes like these make Boston drivers look polite by comparison. The first statement is incorrect, as we all know. The bicycle was the dominant mode of transportation on public roadways decades before the first model T rolled off the assembly line. That's a fact. For more information on this, do a google search on "Good Roads Movement", or "Horatio Earle". He was a League of American wheelmen president, and leader of the good roads movement.

That aside, this is another in a seemingly endless supply of horror stories about cycling in Atlanta. I've never been to Atlanta. Don't think I'll go there either.

On Gasoline Rationing: It's been done before in this country. Gas was rationed during WWII, based on need. Check your grandparents attics, basements, etc. There's probably a rationing coupon book stashed somewhere.

I think that paper is irresponsibly promoting hate speech. Let’s twist it a little:

On Monday this was in the paper:
"To all those people who insist on giving my husband no respect because he is a homosexual, I just wanted you to know that he is the father of two and a teacher to many of your little ones. He is riding to work so that we can eat at home. Please give him a little room."

Today, two responses:
"To the husband of the ***: Marriage wasn’t created for queers. Tell him to go get a woman."
and
"Dude, we don’t care about your husband the ****. He’d better watch where he’s going or he’ll be strung up to a picket fence."

Is there really any difference? Is there?

Is there really any difference? Is there?
Yes, one's a personal choice and the other isn't.



Uh oh, he didn't just say that, did he? Jimmy, get your Bible.

I think that paper is irresponsibly promoting hate speech. Let’s twist it a little:

On Monday this was in the paper:
"To all those people who insist on giving my husband no respect because he is a homosexual, I just wanted you to know that he is the father of two and a teacher to many of your little ones. He is riding to work so that we can eat at home. Please give him a little room."

Today, two responses:
"To the husband of the ***: Marriage wasn’t created for queers. Tell him to go get a woman."
and
"Dude, we don’t care about your husband the ****. He’d better watch where he’s going or he’ll be strung up to a picket fence."

Is there really any difference? Is there?

Please tell us you are kidding. This can't be real. A newspaper published this and wants to be considered a legitimate source of information?

I need some confirmation that this was really published.

Pete, Anybody; is this real or is it a spoof?

As a weekender cyclist, how can I try to commute by bike with psychos like that here in Atlanta?

Dare I venture amongst the flippant would-be bicycle killers? I bought a visibility flag, striped it with reflective tape, and got dog tags so the pramedics know my name, etc.

It's not even a long ride, just 11 miles, but I don't want to die over this.
I wouldn't want to judge your situation, MaxBender, since it's always a personal judgement call. In my case, I ride from Stone Mountain to downtown Atlanta, and for the most part, people treat me with respect and courtesy. Maybe part of that is that I ride the same route every morning at the same time, just like many of the motorists I encounter, so they probably know me by now. A dump truck driver and a garbage truck driver in particular know me, and the police do, for sure.

From Avondale Estates to Inman Park, since it's two lanes in my direction and light traffic between 6:15 and 6:45 (and I'm very visible,) I take a whole lane much of the time. It works well, the motorists change lanes to pass and never squeeze me.