Advocacy & Safety - How do we get kids to wear hemets?

Child: "I wanna go ride my bike."
Parent: "Don't forget to wear your helmet."
C: I don't wanna wear my helmet.
P: That's fine, but then you can't ride your bike.
C: But I wannt ride my bike.
P: No problem - as soon as you put on your helmet you can ride your bike.
C: I don't wannt wear my helmet!
P: That's fine, but ... [repeat longer than child is willing to go - make sure the child knows you have more patience than him/her. Never give in on this or you will encourage them to think they can wear you down].

So what do we do to save the developing craniums of America?

When I visited my mother's place in May the junior-high aged kiddies basically said I was an "old fart" for wearing a helmet. "Nobody wears those anymore!", they complained. (Fortunately, little do they know nobody wore them at all until the 1990's)

Child: "I wanna go ride my bike."
Parent: "Don't forget to wear your helmet."
C: I don't wanna wear my helmet.
P: That's fine, but then you can't ride your bike.
C: But I wannt ride my bike.
P: No problem - as soon as you put on your helmet you can ride your bike.
C: I don't wannt wear my helmet!
P: That's fine, but ... [repeat longer than child is willing to go - make sure the child knows you have more patience than him/her. Never give in on this or you will encourage them to think they can wear you down].
You didn't finish the scene:
C: OK, I'll wear my helmet.
P: OK, so you can ride.
(Child leaves driveway, rides out of parent's sight, then unstraps helmet because that's the "cool" way to ride.)


ClosetBiker already answered the question but the answer is worth repeating. Is the problem reducing his kid's risk, or is it forcing children (by any means including baseball bats and fearmongering) to wear helmets regardless of its effect on the cycling experience? Solving the second question does not necessarily have much (if any) significant effect on solving the first.
I agree that the statistics on helmet use are uncertain, but here, a parent has made a parental choice to try to get his kid to wear a helmet. We should respect that choice, as well as the topic of this thread--which is how to convince a kid to properly wear one.

You regularly whine that VC'ers want to impose an "orthodoxy" on other cyclists. But here, a parent asked a legitimate question. Instead of answering it, you threadjacked the topic (which is covered extensively in another thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=96298&goto=lastpost)) and tried to impose your orthodoxy on his kid.

(On the other hand, we VC'ers should remember ILTB's threadjack the next time someone asks about how to teach their young kid to ride on the sidewalk.)

Edit: I-Like-To-Bike's whine to the contrary (see post 58, below), by "We VC'ers," I mean those who use the board who are VC'ers. The sentence makes it clear that I know that not all forum members are VC'ers. I-Like-To-Bike's interpretation is just bizarre.

The rule for kids in our household is no helmet, no bike ride. Simple as can be. Enforce this long enough and it will become second nature to them, and maybe they'll even influence their less-responsible peers someday.

In Ottawa wearing helmets is the law... the law states if you are a youth you must wear a helmet.

True, but for under 18 only. Twice the law had been introduced in Ontario for all ages to comply, but twice the over 18 law was defeated.

Fork it out for a sweet FS ride that they cannot stop drooling over, then don't let them ride it unless they have their skull bucket on. See them with it off, take it back then they have to hang out with their buddies without a sweet ride.

I have two boys, 9 and 11, with whom I ride frequently. I set a fairly good example, by wearing my helmet almost all the time( I misplaced it, and went a few days without, recently). My kids have tried to get out of riding with their helmets or go without the strap clicked into place, as they have frequently seen older kids model. I'm almost thinking that kids think that what adults do is uncool, so they will do the opposite, especially if there is a perceived, small but real danger.

So what do we do to save the developing craniums of America?

I haven't read the entire thread, so this may have already been mentioned...

Don't try to scare them into it... simply make them part of the buying process and let them pick the coolest helmet they want... The price is worth it.

My son used to pick a new helmet every couple years... fine with me... he wore the one he wanted. That was what I wanted, so it was win-win.

(On the other hand, we VC'ers should remember ILTB's threadjack the next time someone asks about how to teach their young kid to ride on the sidewalk.)
We "VCers"? Is this the VCers Advocacy List? BTW, for whom (and perhaps what) do "we VCers"(whoever the heck is included with DC Commuter in this mystery population) advocate besides themselves and the status quo?

Does anybody but "we VCers" acknowledge the legitimacy of the attempted usurpation of the bicycling advocacy agenda to promote the interests of "we VCers."

If I can't find my helmet, I drive my car, much as I hate it.

We have, from day one, simply presented no options. You buckle up or the car doesn't move. You wear your helmet, or the bike gets locked in the garage. There is no option.

I have heard people even say they can't get their little kids in the safety seats, etc. Our kids never even thought to question it, because they have never seen anyone in a car without a seat belt, kid or adult. They have seen people riding without helmets, but from the time they could talk, we pointed those people out and ridiculed them (guess they've got nothing inside their heads they care about, etc), so wearing a helmet has not been an issue.
Of course, both our kids are very strong against peer pressure, some kids may not be able to hold out. It can be tough.


You pointed out the "unhelmeted heathens" and ridiculed them?

Great parenting, those are some real positive values you are teaching your kids.

:rolleyes:

Sometimes intensity is the best way to "get through" to kids. When I was quite young (maybe four or so) and my parents were trying to get me to understand why not to go near the stove my father illustrated the point by getting a paper towel, rolling it up and having me hold it. He then turned the stove on and had me touch the tip of the paper towel to the burner. The paper towel exploded into flame - it didn't burn or anything - I immediately dropped it, but the message got through loud and clear. I never got burned by the stove.

I'm not saying to traumatize your kids with gorey pics of skull-crushing injuries, but maybe dropping a watermelon from head height onto the driveway would make a suitable visual and get the message home without the gore. Just a suggestion.

I'm not saying to traumatize your kids with gorey pics of skull-crushing injuries, but maybe dropping a watermelon from head height onto the driveway would make a suitable visual and get the message home without the gore. Just a suggestion.
Why not put a helmet on the watermelon, give it at least a velocity of 15mph, preferably 25-35mph or more before impact and analyze the effectiveness of the helmet in a more accident related scenario? Even better don't assure that the impact is ALWAYS restricted to the helmeted area. In fact you might try by throwing it against a car windshield for multiple impacts as it works its way to the ground. It indeed might be an enlightening exercise.

For more fun attach the watermelon/helmet rig to a mannequin (put some eggs in its pockets as an added bonus) and see what protection the helmet offers for the rest of the body.

How to get kids to wear helmets? Print helmets with slogans and pictures that no adult will want their kid wearing. Nothing would work like a parent saying "You're not going out in public wearing that!"

The fear of pain/injury/death argument doesn't work. It hasn't worked with smoking - more little girls are smoking now than ever before.

You wouldn't ride a bike without shoes on (although I have seen some). A helmet is just part of the equipment. There should never be a question about whether or not to put it on. Like pants/shorts/baggy or whatever you wear. It is just something that is worn and one feels naked without.

How do you get them to use it? Lotta good ideas here.

Parental and neighbours' example will be the only thing that works over the long term. Parents/guardians have to wear one all the time - even for the short trip to the circle K. A helmet that fits, breathes, and can be customized a little, can also help as can showing the little buggers how to fix their hair after they take the lid off -hats, do rags, etc. can help too.

It's all about what others think - for adults too. "I won't wear a helmet, cause others will think I'm a wimp...."

If everyone wears a helmet, everyone will wear a helmet. Those that don't will then be considered the strange or uncool ones.

The debate over how much good a bike helmet does still rages. The fact is that a helmet gives a little more concussion resistance than a bare head. What it does give is confidence (rightly or wrongly) that there is some added safety. This confidence my help kids try slightly more dangerous things, and in so doing, if they don't kill themselves first, will get better at their bike handling skills.

I also say you are the parent...they are the kids. My son wears his helmet or the bike stays parked! I cought him once....once...... without it. He didn't ride that bike for 2 weeks. That was 8 years and 5 bikes ago when he was 6. He still likes to ride and wont leave for a ride without it.

Child: "I wanna go ride my bike."
Parent: "Don't forget to wear your helmet."
C: I don't wanna wear my helmet.
P: That's fine, but then you can't ride your bike.
C: But I wannt ride my bike.
P: No problem - as soon as you put on your helmet you can ride your bike.
C: I don't wannt wear my helmet!
P: That's fine, but ... [repeat longer than child is willing to go - make sure the child knows you have more patience than him/her. Never give in on this or you will encourage them to think they can wear you down].

Serge, really. Isn't this cure here worse than the disease?

To discourage cycling out of fear from a risk that the kid will encounter even if he is not cycling, and to lose the benefits he (and we) will reap from cycling, is kind of like, shooting yourself in the foot, isn't it?

Maybe a compromise to the situation would be to make a deal with your kid that if he compleats a proper cycling skills course (Effective Cycling or Can-Bike) with a good passing grade, you'll look the other way, if on occasion, he goes lidless.

How to get kids to wear helmets? Print helmets with slogans and pictures that no adult will want their kid wearing. Nothing would work like a parent saying "You're not going out in public wearing that!"

Holy cheese dip, I think he's got it!!
:D

Massachusetts has a mandatory helmet law or motorcyclists. Needless to say, this does not sit well at all with the Harley crowd. Periodically, a group of them rumble up to the state house, to file legislation to repeal the helmet law. (never works, but they keep trying.) Their helmets are usually decorated with all kinds of rebellious stickers, including one I keep seeing that reads "D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F." (you all know what this means, I'm sure.) Another frequently spotted one reads "Rehab is for Quitters!"

So, Feldman's idea is a great one. I'm betting it would work at least with young males, many of whom have the "nobody tells ME what to do" school of thought.

So, how about some stickers bearing the names of noisy bands, or rappers? Perhaps some pop culture words that kids all know, but parents and other authority figures are clueless about?

(tongue firmly in cheek here. )

When they said they can't wear helmets, I just said, no rides, period without helmets. So they stopped riding bikes

I was the kid in this situation once. I'd say the biggest factor keeping them away from it is peer pressure. At the time my parents laid this rule down, I would be surrounded and beaten by other kids if I was ever seen in a helmet. Don't try to make sense of it --it's what kids do. So basically, I stopped because it was far more dangerous to wear a helmet.

I'd say to anyone with stubborn kids who won't wear a helmet, talk with the kids and hear them out. Make sure there isn't some serious reason they won't wear one, and if there is, sort it out first.

I was the kid in this situation once. I'd say the biggest factor keeping them away from it is peer pressure...I'd say to anyone with stubborn kids who won't wear a helmet, talk with the kids and hear them out. Make sure there isn't some serious reason they won't wear one, and if there is, sort it out first.

I don't think one can ignore this point. Peer pressure is large.

My son had this problem. Back about 15 years ago (before the helmet cult became popular) I had my son wear a helmet when he rode his bike to school and he was mocked and taunted for it. He stopped riding and started walking to school.

At the time I thought I did the right thing, but in retrospect I now know it was a recipe to remove cycling from his life. He hasn't been on his bike since.

I think we as adults need to make sure we are wearing helmets to set a good example. But, I think too, that you must make sure that kids have a helmet that is comfortable on their heads and that they perceive to be cool. If they do not have a helmet they like and other kids make fun of them they will not want to wear their helmet. As an adult I am less concerened about what others think of my helmet, but I still prefer wearing one that is realitvily stylish. If I spend $10 or $15 more on a helmet I like as opposed to one I don't like I am more likely to wear it and I figure over the 5-10 years I own the helmet that $10-$15 will be a very small difference.

Getting back to iceratt's orginal question:

Something I have noticed over the past two years, (just saw another one yesterday, hence this new posting) are helmets designed for kids (up to teenagers) that do not look like traditional bicycle helmets. They are designed to resemble old fashioned football helmets. (best description I can come up with right now) I have seen them in solid colors, including flat black, flat blue, Army olive drab, and a dull silver color. They look nothing like the Giros and Bells most adults wear.

Young males seem to enjoy wearing these. Anyone know anything about these helmets? Are they from a major maker such as Bell, and do they meet Snell standards and such? Maybe it's just that simple: design and market helmets that the kids want to wear because they have the right "look".

Any young folks out there care to speak up on this?

They are helmets for skaters and boarders.

Serge, really. Isn't this cure here worse than the disease?

To discourage cycling out of fear from a risk that the kid will encounter even if he is not cycling, and to lose the benefits he (and we) will reap from cycling, is kind of like, shooting yourself in the foot, isn't it?

Maybe a compromise to the situation would be to make a deal with your kid that if he compleats a proper cycling skills course (Effective Cycling or Can-Bike) with a good passing grade, you'll look the other way, if on occasion, he goes lidless.
You're talking about a kid for whom riding a bike without a helmet is more important than riding the bike at all, and in my scenario I was assuming a kid for whom riding a bike was more important that that. My main point was about out lasting kids, rather than letting them run you down, which I see happening all too often.

But, if you do have a kid who would rather walk, or not go, or whatever, rather than ride his bike without a helmet, are you causing more harm than good by continuing to not allow him to ride without a helmet?

I don't know, seems like in such a situation there are even deeper issues involved, issues that should be addressed. Mainly, determining why is riding without a helmet so important to this kid? Seems like values confusion to me. He's valuing appearance and/or comfort over safety? A cyclist is much more likely to fall and hit his head than be hit by a car. I would find a way to make him want to wear a helmet.

I couldn't imagine being a parent with a brain damaged kid who was injured after being allowed to ride without a helmet. I would not allow that outcome to be a possibility for me.

And if the kid is only wearing a helmet because you're telling him to wear it - and thus is taking it off as soon as he gets around the corner - the root problem is the parent's authoritative discipline style.

Back to my scenario - I was picturing a fairly young child, hence the wording that I used ("you can ride your bike as soon as you put on your helmet"). The idea is convey the existence of a generic/objective "rule" out there, that everyone should follow, as opposed to an order coming from an authority. In other words, you're not telling the kid what to do so much as teaching him what to do. The difference might seem subtle but is critical, and is what keeps the helmet on when they go around the corner.

When I was a kid my parents bought my brothers and I helmets when they started to become more popular (we had already been riding beyond our street for several years)

Well, we thought they were awesome. We put 'em on and jousted with our heads. We rode hard at each other tried to head butt each other off our bikes. It was all fun and games until they cracked and our parents needed to get us new ones.

Al

A cyclist is much more likely to fall and hit his head than be hit by a car.

Ah, I see that maybe this is where we part on the matter.

Is it your inference that a cyclist is more likely to fall and hit his head than someone not on a bike?

I haven't found that falling and hitting heads on bicycles is a more frequent occurance that hitting heads while off the bicycle. For every, "I fell and hit my head while riding my bicycle" story, I can recall many, many more, "I fell down the stairs/ off a ladder/ out of bed/ tripped on the sidewalk/ on a carpet/ was in a car accident/ was in a fight and hurt my head" stories to match.

I find most cases of cyclists receivng head injuries, the behavior of the cyclist was, riding with poor judgement and skill, and that led to the hitting of their heads.

Certainly accidents do happen, but what people are doing when the accidents happen run the gamit from anything that you can imagine, to things you cannot imagine.

It's good to understand this is where you are coming from. I'm justing thinking from a different perspective.

When cyclists fall, yes of course it's almost always due to poor judgement and skill. The point is that kids especially don't have the judgement and skill to not fall. They need to learn, and often part of that learning is falling, including falling and hitting the head.

The one time I fell off my bike I was coming back from a cub scout meeting, so I must have been about 10. I was flying down a hill on my stingray at probably 25 mph or so when the front light generator slipped into the front spokes. Launch. As it turned out I did not sustain head injuries, but I could have quite easily.

I remember another time flying down our driveway on a rainy day in preparation for skidding to a stop in the garage. However, since it was rainy, and I didn't know to skim the water of the rims, I was unable to stop once I was in the garage, and slammed into the back wall of the garage. For better or for worse, the family jewels took the brunt of that one... that much I will never forget.

The only other falls I have had were with new pedal systems. The first time I got toe clips and cleated shoes... fell down at a stop sign. The first time I went mountain biking on river rock with clip-in spd pedals. I was bloody I fell so many times. The first time we took our tandem for a spin... not used to how fast we lose momentum on an uphill and ended up in being in way too high a gear on a steep section... we fell.

All very valuable learning experiences for me, none of which LUCKILY involved head injuries. But the point is, a helmet is about preparing for the unexpected. You can't anticipate everything, and that's an important lesson to instill in children.

When you fall on a bike it can happen very, very fast, and you can come down very hard. Much faster and harder than when falling from walking, unless you slip on something like ice. Barring that possibility, I would not compare the dangers of falling while cycling with the dangers of falling while walking. The dangers of falling and sustaining a head injury seem to be much higher than from doing other things. Also, consider the incidence of reports you hear with the amount of time everyone you know spends bike riding. Basically, you're saying of all the people you encounter, from those who have head injuries, about half are from bike falls. Now consider how much time all the people you encounter spend riding bikes as compared to everything else they do. Many probably don't bike at all. Say, on average, they spend 1% of their time biking (that's high because that's 87.6 hours per year, or 1314 miles/year assuming 15 mph average). So an activity that they spend probably much less than 1% of their time doing produces 50% of the head injuries.

But the main thing is that a cyclist is probably going to fall, and it's mostly a question of when, not if. Given that a cyclist is probably going to fall, why not be prepared with a little extra head protection? What's the downside? Helmets are like seat belts, once you get used to them, you're uncomfortable without them. That's why we've been putting a helmet on our daughter since she was one year old in a trailer. Now it wouldn't occur to her to get on a bike without a helmet.

Are you that confident your kid won't fall and hit his head?

They are helmets for skaters and boarders.

Well, that shows how in touch I am with the youth of America. I never thought of that. :rolleyes:

So, the helmets that resemble old football helmets are actually for boarders and skaters. So, are they approved for bicycle use?

would it help at all to ask some of these young males if they play hockey, and if so, do they wear a helmet while playing? If the answer is yes, ask them why they wear a helmet. Ask them why the NHL made helmet mandatory years ago. (They were not worn during the days when Bobby Orr played for the Bruins.) Ditto for Football. And why are pro baseball players required to wear a batting helmet while at bat. Be interesting to see where such a line of questioning might go (if it went anywhere..) or how aging jock dad types might try to snake out of it.

Then again, probably what would happen would be nothing.

Are you that confident your kid won't fall and hit his head?

Well, both of my kids are grown adults now and I did have them in helmets at the time but if I had to do it differently now, with what I've learned since, I wouldn't worry about having it be a top priority.

My daughter (who as my youngest, is 20) and I went out this morning for a nice slow ride around the block and we didn't wear helmets. I wasn't worried at all.

I too have many stories from when I was younger and testing limits and living in a town that was in a valley there were some killer hills and some spectacular crashes that my friends and I all went through but nothing in the head injury spectrum was experienced. I know there are head injuries to cyclists but I just think it's about a big a risk as a head injury from playing, say, baseball. My brother was hit by a line drive once and knocked out. He recovered and when the stiches came out, we out to a feild and played a little innocent game of 500 up. My uncle hit a soft pop fly my brother got under it, and guess what? He missed, the ball hit him directly on the site and off he went back to the hospital for new stiches. A Different uncle was hit in the head by a flying golf ball on course one day and he went deaf in one ear. I asked a friend at work about this (he was a golf pro) and he says golf balls hitting people in the head happens more than you'd think. I remember as a kid hitting a golf ball in my back yard (it was a big back yard) and a friend was a little too close behind me and I hit him in the head with my back swing. Owch!

There's nothing wrong with having a little extra protection, but I think it should be reserved for those occasions where it seems to be likely to be used. If we are worried about things that are less likely to happen we lose the focus of where best to place our precautions.

I understand many use the example of seat belts as being the equivalent of bike helmets, but as I have found, that is a terrible example, as seat belts have proven themselves to be very effective, whereas bike helmets have a much more murky record.

I am as confident that my kid won't fall and hit his head while on his bicycle as I am he (and she) won't fall and hit his/her head while walking to work or having a shower.

I understand many use the example of seat belts as being the equivalent of bike helmets, but as I have found, that is a terrible example, as seat belts have proven themselves to be very effective, whereas bike helmets have a much more murky record.
I know all too many cyclists who had to buy new helmets because of what they did to their old ones (instead of to their heads) to accept this.

Three quick examples:

1) Cyclist is riding down a hill in a bike lane about 30 mph. No intersections for a while. A driver in a minivan passes the cyclist, then notices cars ahead of him stopping suddenly because of debris in the road. There is traffic to the lane to his left. He slams on the brakes, and veers right, stopping in the bike lane up against the curb. My friend (the cyclist) slams on his brakes, but it's too late, and slams into the back of the minivan. Time for a new helmet.

2) A woman cyclist is riding along, believing herself to be outside of the door zone. As she is passing a Ford F-250 4x4 pickup, the door suddenly opens right in front of her and just clips her handlebars. Down she goes. Turns out she was not quite outside of the door zone like she thought she was... Actually, I don't know for sure whether she hit her head and damaged her helmet, but whether she did or not in this case would be a matter of luck.

3) In a group of about 10 cyclists in a rotating dual pace line suddenly one of the cyclists in the left line hits his brakes and veers because of a pot hole that the cyclists up ahead did not notice and bring us around in time. I watch from the right line as the guy next to me, the guy behind the guy who braked, hits his front wheel on the braking guy's rear wheel. For a moment it looked like he was going to recover, but then I hear the "sh!t" and down he goes, bam, real fast. New helmet time...

I agree that in general there is all too much hand-wringing about the all too unlikely in our society. But I don't agree that cyclists falling and sustaining head injuries falls into that category.

Wearing a helmet is a matter of habit with practically no downside. Developing good habits is an important aspect of life, and wearing a helmet while cycling seems like a no-brainer to me, just like not smoking, wearing seat belts, washing your hands regularly, brushing your teeth twice a day, regular flossing, etc. etc., all of which I think is important to pass on to our children.

Now, having said that, I will do some occasional very slow riding without a helmet, like when I'm visiting my parents and using my dad's cruiser in their 10 mph speed limit retirement community at 8 mph... However, if I happen to have my helmet with me on such a visit, I'll wear it. Why not?

Serge

Once again, I can see where we diverge. That's not a bad thing of course, it's good to have different points of view so we can refine what we each feels is of the most importance to us.

We both agree that in general there is all too much hand-wringing about the all too unlikely in our society, but we disagree about cyclists falling and sustaining head injuries falling into that category. Fair enough.

I've done a lot of reseach into the points I bring, and each point of thought has been reversed from an earlier stance on what you and I now disagree on. I used to believe helmets made a significant impact on reducing head injuries, I don't believe that now. I used to think head injuries to cyclists were a significant problem, but I don't think that now. I think it's hype.

I think cycling is an inherently safe activity with positive health implications. While I will agree there are positive points in wearing a helmet when cycling, I also think it is equally positive to wear helmets in all kinds of other activities where (I think) it would be considered unusual to wear them, and often they are not because it would be unusual.

Cycling has been around for about 130 years. It's only in the last 15 that there has been much concern over head injuries. I don't see why this is so.

It's only in the last 15 that there has been much concern over head injuries. I don't see why this is so.
One relatively recent reason: Andrei Kivilev.

I don't know if I would say helmets made a significant impact on reducing head injuries, depending on how you define "significant". But whatever the impact is, I'm sure it could be bigger if children put on their helmets snuggly and properly, and, because they don't, the impact is borne out statistically to be less significant than it could be.

I also don't know if I believe head injuries per se are significant problem for cyclists.

While I probably have not done as much research as you have on helmets, I do know that they are not designed to help in an impact with a 60 mph car, but are primarily for single cyclist falls onto the ground.

I'm sure that we agree that far more significant is not being careful in general. And, to the extent that helmets provide a false sense of security to some cyclists, they work against making cycling safer. But the context of our discussion is what we would be teaching our own children (grandchildren?), and so I'm sure we are both capable of conveying the appropriate lessons to them, to make sure they even though they have helmets, they don't feel more invincible or something.

While I will agree there are positive points in wearing a helmet when cycling, I also think it is equally positive to wear helmets in all kinds of other activities where (I think) it would be considered unusual to wear them, and often they are not because it would be unusual.
Absolutely. There are those who argue surfers should wear them. That's not really catching on, but it is among snow boarders. Who knows, maybe skiers will start wearing them too.

Speaking of surfing, think about being part of catching the wave. Maybe helmet wearing is not all that significant, but never-the-less, it's generally positive, and why not encourage our kids to get on that wave when it moves through our culture? Should they be part of making helmet wearing more acceptable, or less?

Frankly, I was started at how many people, road biking the mountains in Germany, were doing so without helmets. You'd never see that in CA. Why? What's the difference? Cultural acceptance, top to bottom. Acceptance here, a lack of it there.

Kivilev? Please Serge, individual cases taken out of the context of an entire picture is not a good argument. I can give you Manuel Sonora from Spain, Japanese rider Haruko Fujinawa, at a local race, Nicole Reinhart and Joe Hailey. The Tucson Bicycle Classic had Garrett Paul Lemire die. All of these racers died wearing helmets. I'm sure we could both go on, but what's important is the big picture, not scare stories of unlikely, and rare ocurrances.

Lets try to get the largest group affected by head injuries, drivers. They'll make the same argument as I do though. So many drivers equals so many head injuries. I say should we not expect an equitable amount of head injuries concurrent to the number of cyclists to be accountable to cyclists? Would that be so unusual? Is it any worse than 50% of all head injuries accountable to drivers?

The definiftion if significant is a very personal term, but I would trust certain publications in their assesments. Like the Journal of Products Liability that did a 15 year study on the matter and came to the conclusion that, "There is no evidence that hard shell helmets have reduced the head injury and fatality rates. The most surprising finding is that the bicycle-related fatality rate is positively and significantly correlated with increased helmet use." and I've seen this information duplicated by other studies, so it's not an isolated point of view.

We do agree that far more significant is being careful in general and if I were to teach a new 5 year old to ride I would probably teach as I learned and stand close by as the 5 year old rode. Helmet? Maybe. Young kids are different from 10 or 12 year olds but I still think if I'm the 13th generation in my family to learn to ride a bicycle (and not a single one of us has had a fall while learning to ride that required anything more than a band-aid and a kiss on the head from mom to cure), I don't think the odds of the 14th generation to be any different than the odds that faced the previous generation.

No wait, strike that. I think each generation has learned a little bit more with each year and I would think the odds of misadventure are much less.

Kids will fall, but it's exceedingly rare that they don't get back up and get back on that bike.

You're also right about those riders in Germany without helmets. I think it is cultural. Bikes are a bigger part of the culture over there than over here. It just goes to show different backgrounds and experiences result in different attitudes and priorities. What is right or wrong? Who's to say. It's just good that we can all learn from each others perspectives.

Tell them the Life Insurance is paid, that you are the beneficiary, and you're looking to buy a Corvette.

One relatively recent reason: Andrei Kivilev.

Serge, this thread is about children toodling along at 8 mph, not racers catching a breakaway. We might as well mandate head and neck restraints (http://www.sportslawnews.com/archive/Articles%202001/NASCARsafetydevices.htm) for regular car drivers because a bunch of NASCAR racers all lost their lives from skull fractures while racing.

Closetbiker said he did not see why there was more concern about head injuries in the last 15 years. I gave one example, Kivilev. Prior to his death, pro cyclists were not required to wear helmets. Now they are. It at least partially addresses the question about why there is more concern these days about head injuries.


Like the Journal of Products Liability that did a 15 year study on the matter and came to the conclusion that, "There is no evidence that hard shell helmets have reduced the head injury and fatality rates. The most surprising finding is that the bicycle-related fatality rate is positively and significantly correlated with increased helmet use." and I've seen this information duplicated by other studies, so it's not an isolated point of view.
What percentage of kids who wear helmets do you think wear them properly.
That is, if we picked 1,000 kids at random riding around, with helmets on, how many would have helmets that are too big or too small for their heads? Half? Of those with properly fitting helmets, how many would you expect the strap to be adjusted properly? Half again? I doubt half of adults adjust their straps properly; the number of kids that do is probably a fraction.

Now, if these studies compared the likelihood of head injury to the fraction of kids who wear their helmets properly, to those who don't, I suspect they might come up with a different conclusion about the significance of properly worn helmets as safety devices.

I think you're placing a little too much suspicion on improper use. It's not that large and like I said, these results have been echoed in other studies.

You can also compare areas that have difference in wearing rates, like in my province that has a mandatory law for everyone and Manatoba that doesn't. Or Europe that doesn't and some US areas that do. What are the the differences?

It's my feeling that the differences are slight or suprising and certainly not a big difference that would show a clear benefit to riding with a helmet.

Just my thoughts.

You think I place a little too much suspicion on improper use, and I think you, and the studies, greatly underestimate the incidence of improper use, and the related significance of doing so.

I'll repeat... I know too many people personally who have clearly benefited from wearing helmets when they crashed to believe their effectiveness is insignificant. While it's true that these people constitute a small sample, the real sample size is "all cyclists that I know and encounter", and what is significant is the percentage of "helmet beneficiaries" (those who have benefited from having a helmet on, properly, when they crashed) within that population.

I've seen reports on improper use, and there are variations between each but it's not as high as you seem to suggest it may be - you're suggesting a 75% rate of incorrect usage -

So it seems, we're just back to our differences.

Earlier, you said, "I agree that in general there is all too much hand-wringing about the all too unlikely in our society. But I don't agree that cyclists falling and sustaining head injuries falls into that category." (maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but didn't you make a comment after that comment, that seems to run contradictory to the earlier comment? - "I also don't know if I believe head injuries per se are significant problem for cyclists." -)

You have your experiences, I have mine. A look at the bigger picture would help us both understnd without letting personal predudices get in the way.

A publication like the Journal of Products Liability would likely be trusted to do a proper job before making a public statement like they did. It's still good to be skeptical and critical and check out further sources to see what others say. I have and I've found this to check out.

What could be the reasons? Well one bit of speculation could be that the incidence of head injuries on bikes is not that great to begin with, so even if everyone wears helmets and the helmets work perfectly, there wouldn't be much difference because there were so few injuries in the first place. Just some speculation.

At the very least, there is very little difference in injury rates here in BC (with an all ages MHL) than in Quebec (that has no MHL) and there is a huge difference in Amsterdam where no one wears a helmet and Boston, where (about) 33% do wear helmets. Amsterdam has far, far, fewer head injuries. (before everyone jumps in about the differences between the culture and type of traffic, consider what Boston could do to be more like Amsterdam to make cyclists safer, and anyways, we're talking about kids riding bikes, not commuters or couries ripping through a dense downtown). Wouldn't you think BC would have a better record of head injury for cyclists than Quebec that has a much lower helmet compliance rate? It doesn't seem to be the case. What about the Maritime provinces that have a MHL and share similar countryside characteristics with a couple of prarie provinces, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, that don't have MHL's. Is there a big difference between them despite the difference in helmet compliance rates?

Like I said ealier, I think cycling is an inherently safe activity for everyone (even for those who do not cycle) and I like to advocate for cycling because I think everyone is a little better off because of each individual who cycles. Inferences that suggest cycling is more dangerous than other forms of travel or activity detract from the positive contribution cycling can make for society and are usually just an extention of an unfamiliarity with cycling and it's particulars. If you say, no helmet, no cycling, you're sending out the message that to cycle means you're going to be hitting your head. Who would want to cycle knowing that being hit in the head is part of the game? Not, there's a remote chance, but that it's a sure thing. It'd keep me out of it. We'd be all worse off if this is the popluar train of thought because we'd have fewer cyclists.

Bad things can happen, but no more so than the bad things that can happen to anyone else doing anything else. I've always found, it's not what you do, but how you do it, that makes the difference in safety.

One more thing about those riders in Germany, and the possible cultural differences that may lead to them not having helmets on. Is it possible helmet manafactuers have not been succesful in outfitting Eurpeans because what they have done, is exploit those cultural differences and convinced more people in areas where cycling is not as much in the mainstream, that helmets are needed? Certainly those Germans are as intelligent as Americans, Canadians and Austrailians.

as usualy with kids... TV knows all... show them some clips of the X-games, extreme cycling, mountain bike races, lance... you won't find to many events that cyclist's aren't required to wear them (jsut don't show them clips from previous TDF climbing stages)

(jsut don't show them clips from previous TDF climbing stages)

You're not suggesting exposing kids to the world only as you would like to see it are you? I don't think that's going to work and it practically guarantees a rebellion.

MAke them start when they're young. Make them afraid of death. Cycle with them and find their hotspots and look for them sometimes when they're out for long to make sure they don't take their helm off when they leave the house. Take away allowance and TV time if they don't wear a helmet. You have to make them concerned about their safety. Also, tell them that "the point of a helmet is not to be there because you crash a lot. its there just in case you crash, accidents WILL happen."

Force it into them and give them a nice looking helmet. Go shopping with them. Don't give them the plain white ones or anything. If I had a kid, and he liked a helmet that would cost 50 dollars, I'd much rather buy him one that he'll wear than one that he won't. Even if it's on a "preventable crash", that preventable crash could've been worse without the helmet.

as usualy with kids... TV knows all... show them some clips of the X-games, extreme cycling, mountain bike races, lance... you won't find to many events that cyclist's aren't required to wear them (jsut don't show them clips from previous TDF climbing stages)
Krazy indeed!

Teach kids that reckless, risky, and/or daredevil cycling is A-OK just as long as a helmet is worn. Yeah man, dat's da ticket- A helmet as the ticket to parental approval for riding/doing tricks like a jack-donkey on the street or playground.

I remember doing a charity ride (organised, helmets mandatory) back in the early 1990s and seeing these three girls - they must have been in their teens, but what made them unique amongst the hundreds of other very ordinary-looking cyclists, were their helmets. They had added crests and devices to make them look as if they were something out of a Roman Legion - the general consensus was that they were very cool, very distinctive, and quite unique. Perhaps you could do a similar thing, although I think if you read the small print, you will find that attaching things to the helmet will invalidate the warranty…

- Wil

I knew that eventually I'd come across some pics - (the charity ride was the "Great Mass Getaway" back in June 1992) - anyone recognise anybody?

- Wil

I've been very fortunate. Both my kids wear helmets without any threats from me, cute designs on their helmets or other inducements. They are two typical, rebelious teens, but they consider helmets to be cool. I think they decided this when we went to the local trails. They quickly noticed all the guys on 'cool' bikes, wore helmets. (NOTE Cool= high priced.) Now they notice someone not wearing a helmet with a typical teen remark like 'rookie', 'troll' or other comment.
Hey, it works!
We have several helmets for them to chose from so we make sure there is a supply of helmets that meet their appearance standards.
Now if I could only get that approach to work for their homework or cleaning their room.

Wow, it's been a while since I read this thread.

Good for Will for keeping it in mind when he found those those pics.

I re-read the whole thing and thought I'd add one more comment.

I'll repeat... I know too many people personally who have clearly benefited from wearing helmets when they crashed to believe their effectiveness is insignificant.

I think one of the most effective things bicycle helmet manafacturers did for their business was to make the helmets out of EPS instead of focusing on some other material (as in football helmets, skateboard helmets etc).

When EPS is contacted it falls apart and often convinces people of it's prevention of serious injury. It looks dramatic. It doesn't prove anything of course, just looks good enough that it makes the users preach on how effective they are because of how the helmet broke. I guess it's a lot easier than learning about the mechanics of brain injury or forces involved in collisions.

When EPS is contacted it falls apart and often convinces people of it's prevention of serious injury. It looks dramatic. It doesn't prove anything of course, just looks good enough that it makes the users preach on how effective they are because of how the helmet broke.

What a joke! Let's do this the proper way, why don't we take the minimum amount of force needed to break an EPS helmet and, then, we apply that force to your head. Let's see if you're willing to put your money/head where your mouth is. :rolleyes:

most people do that everyday by bumping their heads into doorways, cabinets or any number of things. Just what do you understand to be the minimum amount of force that will break EPS? We know how much the maximum impact protection is. What is the minimum for break up?

I worked at a rental shop here in victoria bc for many years and we rented bicycles, scooters and motorcycles. We put people out in scooters who hadn't riden bicycles 20+ years and had many spectacular crashes including a head on into SUV at 100km/h combined. We rented 140hp motorcycles with no idea of what experience they had, other than at one time obtaining a licence. The worst accident we ever had was with a young woman from Germany who took out a hybrid bicycle to tour the seaside route. When she left we got into an argument on how in Victoria you had to wear a helmet by law, and finally had her take the helmet. An hour later she was going down a small hill with the helmet on the bars, she apparently tried to grab something from her handlebar bag and lost control. She was left in a coma and after weeks she was sent home to Germany. I heard she was still in a coma 6months ago making the total 5 years. Wear a helmet

My son was a typical eight year-old four years ago. He didn't like wearing a helmet and it was always a drama getting him to put it on. And he did...grudgingly. So we went our for a ride and were half a block up the street when we approached a T intersection where the cars usually cruised through the sidewalk while making right turns or sat wwaiting to turn left. Knowing that the cars often barely slowed at the stop-sign, I guided us up on the sidewalk where it was safer. There is a church on the corner and an alley directly beside it. Just as my son was going by the alley, a moron in an SUV, ignoring the fact that the church completely obliterates his view to the right zips through the sidewalk with the intention of pulling right out on to the street. Naturally, he was going too fast and slams on his brakes as my son is going by. My sonswerved, but the truck just bumped him enough to send him off balance and onto the busy road. My son barely touched the road before bouncing up and spinging for the sidewalk wheile I was flying off my bike in an effort to catch him. He was okay, but he had hit the ground hard enough to make a nice crack sound when his helmet hit the road. We stood there shaking...both terrified...but for different reasons. The driver was very apologetic despite my fury, but when we calmed down, I asked my son what he thought about helmets now and he has never balked at wearing one again.

I don't recommend this method of getting the message across. But it worked.

Most of the kids riding with parents had their helmets on, only ones without helmet in my area is transients, young adults talking on the cellphone while handsfree biking and few kids riding by themselves. I remember one kid did a flipover on a T intersection when he went into a ditch, amazingly he didn't have a scratch although he did have a shocked look and was speechless when asked if he was ok, but he did give me , I can't believe I aint hurt look while nodding that he was ok.

I would just give them skateboard, skiboard, inline helmets if you can't make them wear the dorky bike helmets... they do have a point.

I never wear my helmet when cycling with my kids, that is all the encouragement they need. They don't want to wear any of my other clothes either.