Advocacy & Safety - Race, Class, And Bicycles

New Orleans Metro Bicycle Coalition responds to Hurricane Katrina
Sep 03, 2005

Listserv post from Audrey Warren of New Orleans Metro Bicycle Coalition regarding Hurricane Katrina:


Hello All,

Just checking in. We are pretty sure that everyone on the New Orleans Metro Bicycle Coalition board got out safely, myself included, but not without a deep sadness in our hearts. If anyone has any questions about specific people and their whereabouts, they can contact me directly at audreykwarren@yahoo.com

There are a thousand different ways to look at what has happened, but since this is an organization of bike/ped advocates, I wanted to give a perspective that is relevant to this group. It's a long posting, but I hope you will indulge me. I've got a lot on my mind.

There's a tricky question on the US census longform that asks if your household has access to a car. I live by myself and haven't owned a car for years, but I can't honestly say that I don't have access to a car. I have a friends and family who I can (and do) call on anytime to borrow their car. I have money to take a taxi or rent a car whenever I need it. I have chosen to live without a car, but have access to all of the privileges that would go with ownership, just none of the hassle. It was never a question as to whether I would get out of the city. We had reservations at a hotel in Dallas by Friday night.

Perhaps the largest issue that we have struggled with in the formation of the New Orleans Metro Bicycle Coalition is connecting with the population of folks that depend on their bicycle as their only mode of transportation, people who are honestly just barely scraping by. We all know that it is notoriously difficult to get numbers on cyclists, much less get an accurate sense of the demographics, but I would say that easily more than half the bicyclists on the road in New Orleans are riding not because of some ideology or health goal, but because they are broke and even bus fare is beyond their means.

The vast majority of the people who were left behind had no way out. When you are watching these images on the television, I challenge you to see them as the unseen, marginalized faces of bicycling - the folks that ride everyday, but never find their way to our membership lists, or speak at the Bike Summit, or subscribe to The Ride. Part of the horror of this event is that we as a nation have turned our back on the poor, and that in most urban areas, poverty and race are inextricably linked.

For me, advocating for bicycle and pedestrian rights is about social justice, and the 900 lb gorilla in the corner is that the complexion of our movement is largely white, middle class. I would like to hear a conversation in the bike/aped advocacy movement that really addresses these issues so that we as a collective can work to put our own house in order.

If you would like to help out with the tragedy, please consider working in your own organizations to strengthen your ties with communities of color, and connect with people who are struggling with poverty every day. With all of the madness that is being broadcast on the television, it is difficult to know what to do, and I offer this as a meaningful way to channel your desire to help. Reaching out beyond our historic base is not trivial - or easy - but we can't claim that we're just an upstart grassroots movement anymore without enough resources to do it right. If we in New Orleans had made it a priority to address the needs of those who can't afford a car, we would never have seen the devastating images of those that were left behind.

-audrey

------------------
Audrey Warren
New Orleans Metro Bicycle Coalition

Typical liberal, bleeding heart, crap. Get a life.

Typical liberal, bleeding heart, crap. Get a life.

This is not the Politics forum. Can we quit with the blame game already? But since you insist, you will certainly enjoy www.billionairesforbush.com. Rich, racists, and rip-roaringly fun! Conservatives Gone Wild!

This is not the Politics forum. Can we quit with the blame game already? But since you insist, you will certainly enjoy www.billionairesforbush.com. Rich, racists, and rip-roaringly fun! Conservatives Gone Wild!

Dear Mr. "It's All Whitey's Fault":

I agree, this belongs in the political section.

Go down to the political section and read some of the stuff I've written AGAINST THE REPUBLICANS.

You hardcore leftists are no different than the hardcore right wingers -- different sides of the same coin.

You can save this article for the rich, white college girlies, they're the only ones dumb enough to fall for this crap.

Dear Mr. "It's All Whitey's Fault":


Duh. I have no idea what you are talking about.

Duh. I have no idea what you are talking about.

You have no idea what I'm talking about?

This is from the article you posted:


For me, advocating for bicycle and pedestrian rights is about social justice, and the 900 lb gorilla in the corner is that the complexion of our movement is largely white, middle class.

If some group is all, or nearly, white that, in itself, is a problem? That's how you think?

If I had posted this same article with the word "white" replaced by "black", you would have gotten you panties all in a bunch and gone off puling to the mods demanding that the thread be nuked.

My parents are political refugees from Eastern Europe. I was born in Jersey City, NJ, I went to High School in Hackensack, NJ, I went to college in Newark, NJ. I've been around black people all my life. I've seen it all up close and personal. You can save your tired, old sociology class clichés for some teenager from a lily White town. They're the only ones impressed with that bull****.

Duh!

You have no idea what I'm talking about?

My parents are political refugees from Eastern Europe. I was born in Jersey City, NJ, I went to High School in Hackensack, NJ, I went to college in Newark, NJ. I've been around black people all my life. I've seen it all up close and personal. You can save your tired, old sociology class clichés for some teenager from a lily White town. They're the only ones impressed with that bull****.

Duh!

I still don't get it. Can someone help me out?

I still don't get it. Can someone help me out?

He's all up in your face like, flaming you and stuff.

I still don't get it. Can someone help me out?

What don't you get? You've been called on your lefty bull**** ,and you have nothing to back it up with. You're used to pointing your finger, with self righteous indignation, and, screaming "racist, anti-Semite, Nazi" and have everyone run for cover.

Sorry, doesn't work with me. You can stuff it. Now go cry to the mods.

What don't you get? You've been called on your lefty bull**** ,and you have nothing to back it up with. You're used to pointing your finger, with self righteous indignation, and, screaming "racist, anti-Semite, Nazi" and have everyone run for cover.

Sorry, doesn't work with me. You can stuff it. Now go cry to the mods.

Wow. I wish I had a kewl little electronic device to control the way you interpret my post and make it right. I am sorry I can't. Why don't you write to the original author of the letter?
:( :cry:

He's all up in your face like, flaming you and stuff.

I don't understand. Besides, I didn't write the letter. Why don't you take up the issue with her? I posted it because I have nothing better to do and have no life. :p

I think the person who wrote the article the original poster wallpapered here, is concerned with representating disenfranchized, marginalized cyclists in an advocacy organization who's face is largely white, in the context of the Katrina disaster.

Minority representation is a problem many advocacy groups face, regardless of fraternity, i'd imagine. Do community organizations in neighborhoods with large % of minority population misrepresent their poorer constituents? Probably.

I think the original poster is concerned with representating disenfranchized, marginalized cyclists in an advocacy organization who's face is largely white, in the context of the Katrina disaster.

Minority representation is a problem many advocacy groups face, regardless of fraternity, i'd imagine. Do community organizations in neighborhoods with large % of minority population misrepresent their poorer constituents? Probably.


Okaaaaaaay. A more nuanced response. Thank you. :D

I still don't get it. Can someone help me out?

He has a lot of anger. That's about it.
You don't understand because you were looking for a
rational train of thought. That was even a rant.
A rant is about something. His comments were
rejecting the author's POV but without ever saying why.
One of the tricks these guys do is what I call a Seinfeld.
They look like they're going somewhere, but nothing happens.

Having said that, I do wonder where the author was going with his comments.
Disaster management is a game pros play. Amateurs just screw up, like Brownie did.

I still don't get it. Can someone help me out?

He has a lot of anger. That's about it.
You don't understand because you were looking for a
rational train of thought. That wasn't even a rant.
A rant is about something. His comments were
rejecting the author's POV but without ever saying why.
One of the tricks these guys do is what I call a Seinfeld.
They look like they're going somewhere, but nothing happens.

Having said that, I do wonder where Audrey Warren was going with his comments.
Disaster management is a game pros play. Amateurs just screw up, like Brownie did.

The bleeding heart stuff only plays to those who have been isolated from reality. Yep the teenager from the lily-white town is the one it plays to.

I too am appalled that the official stance for emergency plans in the US is that you must have a car. Bicycles are a great way to move a lot of people, effectively and cheaply. The corrupt gangsters running NO allowing use of the friggin SCHOOL BUSES would have helped too.

I reserve the most admiration for the white guy who lived on a boat in LA so he wasn't rich, and he hopped on his bike with trailer and rode to Colorado. There's a guy who's used to handling what life hands him.

Here's an interesting exercise meant to give more of a perspective than take a side.

Imagine New York City. All 5 burroughs. Imagine trying to evacuate all 8 million people in 24 hours. Right.

Back to New Orleans
My supposition is that whatever the culture race bias etc it is impossable to effect a total evacuation of a major city in less than a few days.
If everyone HAD driven out their cars would still be stuck on the highway.
And it's a nice thought to say "busses" How many busses does it take to move 250 thousand people? Who's driving those busses when half the bus drivers are evacuating? The nursing home (bad bad bad) failed to evacuate and we're all upset, but the hospitals weren't emptied either. How many ambulances does it take to evacuate 50 people from a nursing home? 50. Plus 50 crews driving a few hours to Baton Rouge, plus probably double the staff the nursing home has to get 50 patients ready for transport. All the while 50 911 calls not getting answered during a crisis and how many more hospitals waiting? I'll suggest that without outside (federal) help a mass evacuation is IMPOSSIBLE. I've worked in nursing homes and know that even if they have access to a bus big enough for the number of patients most of the patients couldn't walk into the bus, would need 3-4 people each to lift and carry into the bus, couln't sit in a bus seat and would be injured, need oxygen or other medical intervention... Evacuating a 300 bed hospital? That's when we start to 'triage' and stuff people into cars that can go, ambulences based on availability and decide who stays, and who probably won't make it. (Who dies.)
I guarentee that the city and county does not have enough ambulances or helicopters to have evac'd every hospital in the affected region, nor have enough city busses to have evac'd the people left behind.

I think the 'fault' for this lies in a lack of planning, lack of understanding of the realities of an evacuation, and a lack of immagination. But the people on the ground can only do their best with what they have. Should have's don't help anyone.

Here's an interesting exercise meant to give more of a perspective than take a side.

Imagine New York City. All 5 burroughs. Imagine trying to evacuate all 8 million people in 24 hours. Right.



Where would you put 8 million people after the evacuation?

Where would you put 8 million people after the evacuation?

It's a mental exercise, don't bother yourself.

Where would you put 8 million people after the evacuation?

Hi,
density is inverse to efficiency. In other words, as people spread out they get easier to move. Also, once out of the immediate area of danger, the need to move quickly is reduced.

But the first step is a doozy. No one has any idea how you could move millions
within a timeframe that would allow them to escape some disasters. You couldn't justify creating a hundred new train tracks just to handle the surge of an emergency situation. Even worse, generally speaking any transportation capacity
gets utilised exacerbating the various problems of long distance commuting.

But there are tons of stuff that can be done, that would save many lives. We should do them.

But there are tons of stuff that can be done, that would save many lives. We should do them.

Air drop bikes along with the food and water?

If some group is all, or nearly, white that, in itself, is a problem? That's how you think?


The problem is that the majority of cyclists in a lot of place are the very poor, for whom cycling is the most practical economic option, and those cyclists aren't part of the advocacy orgs in their areas, generally. It's as if AAA was formed only of people who drove Formula One cars, or something like that, I guess.

FWIW, environmental groups are having similar bouts of debate about this, as some of the most pressing environmental issues have to do w/urban pollution & contamination, yet the big green orgs are mostly formed of rich folks trying to preserve wilderness areas, &c. and so are out of touch w/urban grassroots efforts which they could be doing some real good by helping.

The problem is that the majority of cyclists in a lot of place are the very poor, for whom cycling is the most practical economic option, and those cyclists aren't part of the advocacy orgs in their areas, generally. It's as if AAA was formed only of people who drove Formula One cars, or something like that, I guess.
I guess you mean like a small band of VC proselytizers/true believers trying to hijack the issue of Bicycling Advocacy as their exclusive province, regardless of their unrepresentative composition.

I guess you mean like a small band of VC proselytizers/true believers trying to hijack the issue of Bicycling Advocacy as their exclusive province, regardless of their unrepresentative composition.
Or the people who hurl personal insults at the VC'ers without offering their own alternatives.

I thought the letter quoted in the OP was great and presents a real challenge to everybody involved in advocacy and/or organized cycling. Around here, Most cyclists are black but most cycle club members are white. The local advocacy group sponsors rides that start in the far suburbs with almost none starting in the city where most cyclists live and ride. On the positive side, that club does publish bike route maps that cover the inner city as extensively as the suburbs.

In Louisiana, one could not help but notice that most of those left behind were minorities, most who evacuated before the flooding were white. That's a pure fact, and I doubt if it's a coincidence. Generations of racism are frustratingly slow to end.

I thought the letter quoted in the OP was great and presents a real challenge to everybody involved in advocacy and/or organized cycling. Around here, Most cyclists are black but most cycle club members are white. The local advocacy group sponsors rides that start in the far suburbs with almost none starting in the city where most cyclists live and ride. On the positive side, that club does publish bike route maps that cover the inner city as extensively as the suburbs.
At least in my area, I would expand this to four major groups, although there are some cyclists that don't fit into the general categories:

Group 1: Transportational - poor people who cannot afford other means of transport
Group 2: Transportational - those who can afford a car but choose to cycle for transportation
Group 3: Recreational - club/racing cyclists who generally prefer quiet roads
Group 4: Recreational - families and child cyclists who generally prefer bike paths

The advocacy organizations here are generally made up of cyclists in Group 2. These organizations may try to reach out to Group 4 on occasion. Group 3 tends not to be interested in advocacy, unless something (such as a road closure or construction) is affecting a particular favorite route.

No advocacy organization that I know has figured out how to reach Group 1. Those cyclists in Group 1 generally have no time to be involved in advocacy, and they certainly don't have any money to donate. Also, they lose interest in cycling once they save up enough money for a car.

I too am appalled that the official stance for emergency plans in the US is that you must have a car.
I agree with this one point you made here. I was once trapped in my house by mudslides and washed out roads in every direction and the only way out turned out to be on foot. Relying on my car would have kept me stuck there with inadequate food, dwindling supplies, and no TV for weeks. I rode my scooter as far as it could take me, until the slides were too thick to get through. Then I hoofed it the rest of the way. In a few places I started sinking into the mud and I almost panicked I would get stuck. I almost lost my shoes. I passed an abandoned car sunk in the mud up to the wheel wells. But I made it. A car would have been useless. A bicycle might have been very useful, at least on the other end of the mud slides, which by the way spanned several miles. Once I got to where I needed to go, I needed transportation. A bicycle would have been helpful.

As far as those poor people being unable to escape. I can't know what they were thinking but if it had been me, here's what I'd have been thinking: No way in hell am I leaving. You can evict me. Do the formal proceedings. That'll take months. If I leave voluntarily I'll have no home to come back to. All the stuff I can't take will be thrown out by the landlords. They'll rebuild luxury condos and jack up the rents and I'll end up homeless anyway. So what the heck. You do a formal eviction and meanwhile I'll get to keep my home for just a little while longer. Maybe not totally logical, but that's how I'd play it.

Ok, end of off-topic stuff. Perhaps bicycles should be donated to the relief effort because those folks that have been relocated probably left theirs behind, if they had them.

Here's an interesting exercise meant to give more of a perspective than take a side.

Imagine New York City. All 5 burroughs. Imagine trying to evacuate all 8 million people in 24 hours. Right.

We've had small scale dry-runs for that a few times in the last couple of years... 9/11 and the big blackout. Granted, they weren't total evacuations of the 5 boroughs (and what kind of emergency would require that, exactly?) but, notably, they were done with almost no official supervision that I saw, and they were done in the near complete absence of NYC's greatest people-moving asset...the subway. Sure, it was a ***** for a lot of people, but the evacuations were orderly, mostly peaceful and done with an enormous amount of good humor, considering the circumstances.

The beginning and end of my justification for bike-commuting (not that I need one) is the fact that, the day of the blackout, I was home on my front porch having a beer half an hour after it happened, while my coworkers who rely on mass transit and private motor vehicles were stuck in traffic, still waiting for ferry service or walking.

New Orleans Metro Bicycle Coalition responds to Hurricane Katrina
Sep 03, 2005
Perhaps the largest issue that we have struggled with in the formation of the New Orleans Metro Bicycle Coalition is connecting with the population of folks that depend on their bicycle as their only mode of transportation, people who are honestly just barely scraping by. We all know that it is notoriously difficult to get numbers on cyclists, much less get an accurate sense of the demographics, but I would say that easily more than half the bicyclists on the road in New Orleans are riding not because of some ideology or health goal, but because they are broke and even bus fare is beyond their means.


I see this in Pittsburgh. THe CM rides are lily white. My guess is that black people see the self-marginalized folk as wierd and something to avoid. WHy have 2 strikes against you? There are a few people with "flaver" who are avid cyclsits but not many and they have money, education and a place in society.



For me, advocating for bicycle and pedestrian rights is about social justice, and the 900 lb gorilla in the corner is that the complexion of our movement is largely white, middle class. I would like to hear a conversation in the bike/aped advocacy movement that really addresses these issues so that we as a collective can work to put our own house in order.

If you would like to help out with the tragedy, please consider working in your own organizations to strengthen your ties with communities of color, and connect with people who are struggling with poverty every day. With all of the madness that is being broadcast on the television, it is difficult to know what to do, and I offer this as a meaningful way to channel your desire to help. Reaching out beyond our historic base is not trivial - or easy - but we can't claim that we're just an upstart grassroots movement anymore without enough resources to do it right. If we in New Orleans had made it a priority to address the needs of those who can't afford a car, we would never have seen the devastating images of those that were left behind.

I think that she might be on to something here. It be a way to grow the movement. Like SOCCER 12 years ago. I'd start with a biking "no kid left behind" plan. Only difference is that it would not cater to the worst, and pull everyone down to that level, but would start by building relationships with kids, people and bikes.

It is hard for folks without flavor, like myself and likley you to admit that, "hey I get so much just because I am white". It feels so much better to think that I earned that privledge. But that is bs. In order to get the "right" to go to school, there was something like 10 lawsuits in 10 cities just to get black kids to get a state education. Sure that was in the 50s but there are plenty of examples that I could share off line. Some minorities are given a kinda "honnory white status", just so you all dont gang up against us. These people develop a need to clearly distinguish themselves from their racial sterotypes, so as not to fall into being made other.

Why not give something back? Do you really want to live in the city with no public pools in the hot summer? Hey you suburbanites still have to come into the cities sometimes to go to the game, higher education, work or decent hospital.

As far as bikes and disasters are concerned. When DC is hit by a mega disaster I'd ride out and head west via the tow path. It took 4 hours to drive out of New Orleans to go 60 miles. Bikes would be faster. Just have to avoid all of the freaked out drivers. NewYorkers would be crushed by thier own affluence if they had to evac in a hurry. THe hummers would run out of gas and block the egress of the Lexes'. Only Donald Trump and a handfull of helocopters would make it out. Once the cars dies bikes would be a target for looting, (by the rich and poor), so ride slow and make it look hard. 160,000 buses would be needed (1200 miles worth). Get real stop believing that god is behind us and that partiotism and hot metal projectiles will solve our problems.

Or the people who hurl personal insults at the VC'ers without offering their own alternatives.
Oh, but I have. The VCer's should give up on its counter productive plan 1 - trying to force VC education/training programs on the uninterested. Give up on trying to mandate/create a demand for their supply of educators and educational/training materials. The battle is over, enough already! The bicycling public has made their decision (you should take your program and ... come back when you have a convincing or desirable alternative.)

Give up on plan 2 - obstructionism to all bicycling programs that don't include money for plan 1.

If that answer doesn't suit your fancy, perhaps you should ask yourself what problem ARE you trying to solve with promotion of VC education, and, given a 30 year failure to show any results, why should anyone (besides a handful of underemployed/underutilized VC educator/trainers/salesmen) care?

Silence from counterproductive obstructionists, or a new, useful, credible and practical proposal from them - Is that an alternative to endless counter productive, fear based, same old/same old proselytization from a handful of true believers, or is it not?

Note: This is NOT a call for censorship or stifling of conversation; only a request to free discussion/debate from endless harassment from the handful of VC true believers who want the last/only word on all issues.

Second Note: Calling a VC "spade", a VC "spade" is not an insult. It is a statement of fact. Wishful thinking and unsubstantiated theories do not become facts or truth through constant repetition, polling of the faithful, or rewording of the same old pitch.

In Louisiana, one could not help but notice that most of those left behind were minorities, most who evacuated before the flooding were white. That's a pure fact, and I doubt if it's a coincidence. Generations of racism are frustratingly slow to end.

The Free Masons, Illuminati and Klansmen really have their stuff together, don't they?

We need a tinfoil hat smilie for this board.

At least in my area, I would expand this to four major groups, although there are some cyclists that don't fit into the general categories:

Group 1: Transportational - poor people who cannot afford other means of transport
Group 2: Transportational - those who can afford a car but choose to cycle for transportation
Group 3: Recreational - club/racing cyclists who generally prefer quiet roads
Group 4: Recreational - families and child cyclists who generally prefer bike paths

The advocacy organizations here are generally made up of cyclists in Group 2. These organizations may try to reach out to Group 4 on occasion. Group 3 tends not to be interested in advocacy, unless something (such as a road closure or construction) is affecting a particular favorite route.

No advocacy organization that I know has figured out how to reach Group 1. Those cyclists in Group 1 generally have no time to be involved in advocacy, and they certainly don't have any money to donate. Also, they lose interest in cycling once they save up enough money for a car.

Brian.

I agree with your breakdown but IMO there is a tiny slice of Group 3 (the VC proselytizers) who do make advocacy an issue. And their advocacy has nothing/little to offer those in any of the other Groups unless they do all their cycling on those same roads prefered by Group 3.

Oh, but I have. . . .
Where?

Where?
RTFM(essage). Better yet. Read it and look in the mirror and ask yourself what ARE you advocating and for whose benefit?

The Free Masons, Illuminati and Klansmen really have their stuff together, don't they?

We need a tinfoil hat smilie for this board.

I'm not old, and there have been serious race riots within my lifetime. There are men alive who spent their lives as young adults living under threat of lynching, there are men and women alive who remember being on the wrong side of government-enforced lines of discrimination. While things are certainly immeasurably better that they were and while progress has been made, to say that racism is the stuff of conspiracy theories and secret societies is to be willfully blind to the reality of both recent history and the state of affairs today.

I'm not old, and there have been serious race riots within my lifetime. There are men alive who spent their lives as young adults living under threat of lynching, there are men and women alive who remember being on the wrong side of government-enforced lines of discrimination. While things are certainly immeasurably better that they were and while progress has been made, to say that racism is the stuff of conspiracy theories and secret societies is to be willfully blind to the reality of both recent history and the state of affairs today.Amen. Facts are facts, white supremacists can't change them with his lies.

Most of the people still in New Orleans after Katrina can remember in their lifetimes the separate facilities for "white" and "colored." Most have also grown up hearing about (and experiencing) systematic police brutality against blacks. I don't know if this is true, but I have heard that black neighborhoods in New Orleans are built in the flood areas, while most white areas are on higher ground.

...but I have heard that black neighborhoods in New Orleans are built in the flood areas, while most white areas are on higher ground.

Probably more accurate to say "poor" than "black" as I do know white folks from the 9th Ward, but yeah, the highest ground holds some of the oldest and most prosperous/affluent neigborhoods.

The larger story of geography and history in NOLA is an extremely interesting one, and while race certainly plays a part in the history of the city, there are lots and lots of factors that made the city the way it is. But I'll defer to people who are actual experts in the city's history, as my enthusiastic amateurism is sure to fall short.

In the Universe I grew up in, whites work the jobs too low-paying, dirty, or disgusting for nonwhites. You can get a job, but only if no one "better" wants it, or if it's the kind of job that no one nonwhite would want. Example: I worked at an animal hospital for several years, cleaning cages, scooping poop, washing filthy dogs, etc. I'd have much rather had a job cleaning houses or hotel rooms, but very hard for a white to get that job. I had to fight like HELL to get what college I was able to get, and my grades were very good. But I'm white, wrong color. I got into an electronics job, which was a miracle, a white engineer who was also a ham radio op spoke up for me, fought for me really, and was able to because he was willing to work long hours for **** wages himself. I got this wonderful job, for $5 an hour, no raises, just that. There were other student-intern-techs there too, they got more because they were of better colors. I used to walk by a gardener working outside the building often, out there with just the plants and dirt and his little miniature sickle, and wish I had that job - but gardening is not allowed to whites there because no one wants their neighbors to see the disgrace of a white person on their grounds. It's one of those jobs that are too good.... When I could escape that hellhole I did, but the discrimination against whites is just about as strong on the US mainland too. I have my own biz now, a small one, and one where I can to a great degree get around the disadvantage of being white. I see people in person to buy stuff, sell on the net and so the customers are spared seeing what race I am since I don't have any pics of myself on there, just the products. They may guess I'm white, but they're spared having to think much about it.

When I hear about all thus stuff that's supposed to be against nonwhites it just seems like another universe. It's like growing up in Samoa and reading about snow all your life, but never seeing it. But what I've hearing is much more unreal than snow. I have never seen nonwhites as poor as whites I have seen, known, and grown up among. Nonwhites I have known have always gotten what they wanted in jobs, education, having to apply for welfare, buying/owning a house, etc. Whites I have known, as well as myself, have had a hell of a time.

So I guess all this *****ing about the poor, put-upon people who in my universe have had and have now every possible adavantage just gets from me a huge <h1>YAWN</h1> sprinkled with a healthy dollop of disbelief.

I don't have any idea what you're talking about.

In the Universe I grew up in, whites work the jobs too low-paying, dirty, or disgusting for nonwhites. You can get a job, but only if no one "better" wants it, or if it's the kind of job that no one nonwhite would want. Example: I worked at an animal hospital for several years, cleaning cages, scooping poop, washing filthy dogs, etc. I'd have much rather had a job cleaning houses or hotel rooms, but very hard for a white to get that job. I had to fight like HELL to get what college I was able to get, and my grades were very good. But I'm white, wrong color. I got into an electronics job, which was a miracle, a white engineer who was also a ham radio op spoke up for me, fought for me really, and was able to because he was willing to work long hours for **** wages himself. I got this wonderful job, for $5 an hour, no raises, just that. There were other student-intern-techs there too, they got more because they were of better colors. I used to walk by a gardener working outside the building often, out there with just the plants and dirt and his little miniature sickle, and wish I had that job - but gardening is not allowed to whites there because no one wants their neighbors to see the disgrace of a white person on their grounds. It's one of those jobs that are too good.... When I could escape that hellhole I did, but the discrimination against whites is just about as strong on the US mainland too. I have my own biz now, a small one, and one where I can to a great degree get around the disadvantage of being white. I see people in person to buy stuff, sell on the net and so the customers are spared seeing what race I am since I don't have any pics of myself on there, just the products. They may guess I'm white, but they're spared having to think much about it.

When I hear about all thus stuff that's supposed to be against nonwhites it just seems like another universe. It's like growing up in Samoa and reading about snow all your life, but never seeing it. But what I've hearing is much more unreal than snow. I have never seen nonwhites as poor as whites I have seen, known, and grown up among. Nonwhites I have known have always gotten what they wanted in jobs, education, having to apply for welfare, buying/owning a house, etc. Whites I have known, as well as myself, have had a hell of a time.

So I guess all this *****ing about the poor, put-upon people who in my universe have had and have now every possible adavantage just gets from me a huge <h1>YAWN</h1> sprinkled with a healthy dollop of disbelief.

Well played.

I liked this piece. It does not seems to attack people, but it give people an avenue and an opportunity to help. Many people ask after a tradegy how can I help. Well, this give one an avenue and an opportunity. I am willing to help, but regretably I do not have much time since I am in school or much money because of the same reason, but I do what I can.

RTFM(essage). Better yet. Read it and look in the mirror and ask yourself what ARE you advocating and for whose benefit?
Your message was nothing but an attack on VC. Do you have anything positive to add?



Brian, I agree with your breakdown but IMO there is a tiny slice of Group 3 (the VC proselytizers) who do make advocacy an issue. And their advocacy has nothing/little to offer those in any of the other Groups unless they do all their cycling on those same roads prefered by Group 3.
Actually, most VC'ers are probably in groups one and two, transportational cyclists.

quote:

"For me, advocating for bicycle and pedestrian rights is about social justice, and the 900 lb gorilla in the corner is that the complexion of our movement is largely white, middle class. I would like to hear a conversation in the bike/aped advocacy movement that really addresses these issues so that we as a collective can work to put our own house in order."

end_quote

- don't see how bicycling and pedestrian rights is related to "social justice" (whatever that means - redistribution of wealth? elimination of the class system?)

- why should the complexion of a movement or organization matter? does that mean that the NAACP is ineffective or less legitimate because of its makeup? should BET feature wider and more varied audience-related material instead of appealing to a limited audience range?

- "put our own house in order"??? not sure what that means?

(i grew up in a city orphanage in urban, center city philadelphia... my brothers and sisters were a rainbow of race and religion... our main benefit was a decent education, but alas, we didn't have bicycles...)

- i think that the original question could be rephrased into a question of participation, not due to any failing on the part of current members, but more of a lack of ways to encourage advocacy and develop interest...

Your message was nothing but an attack on VC. Do you have anything positive to add?
This getting boring. Again, Here is a positive suggestion - come back when you have something to advocate that has not already been rejected for over 30 years offer by the cycling world outside of the VC clique



Actually, most VC'ers are probably in groups one and two, transportational cyclists.
My assumption is that the VC enthusiasts/proselytizers who try to dominate all discussion on advocacy lists are mostly club cyclists and LCI's who believe that their experiences combined with speculation, conjuring and readings from/belief in the Forester Chronicles give them a special status for determining what is appropriate (and often required) for everybody else to "Fare Best".

You know better about the makeup of so-called "VC-ers"?

How would you know? How do you or anybody else define "VC'ers"? It's anybody's guess whom you or others might include in this august group. Who identified, counted or measured this mystery population of cyclists - you? Where did you find them?

I don't want to get into making her case for her, but really quickly:


- don't see how bicycling and pedestrian rights is related to "social justice" (whatever that means - redistribution of wealth? elimination of the class system?)

For her, bike/ped rights has a political component as well. Not so uncommon in activism that people's wider concerns inform their attitudes about the specific causes they work for. OTOH, there are lots of cycling activists who focus exclusively on better bike facilities, wider lanes, more signage, etc. But yu can't read more than two posts here w/o seeing that for lots of folks, cycling is at least in some small part a political act.


- why should the complexion of a movement or organization matter? does that mean that the NAACP is ineffective or less legitimate because of its makeup? should BET feature wider and more varied audience-related material instead of appealing to a limited audience range?

The complexion of the organization matters becase it's not representing the wider majority or cyclists...people for whom cycling is not a political act, or recreation, or exercize, or a competitive sport, but rather an economic choice. Complexion comes into it because in NO and in lots of other places, there is at least a perception that the poor are in large part non-white. (I don't know for a fact and am not saying that that's statistically true, just that that's the perception, one of many places where race and class overlap in this country.)


- "put our own house in order"??? not sure what that means?

I think she wants to make sure that going forward, her org. is representing the needs of all cyclists.


(i grew up in a city orphanage in urban, center city philadelphia... my brothers and sisters were a rainbow of race and religion... our main benefit was a decent education, but alas, we didn't have bicycles...)

- i think that the original question could be rephrased into a question of participation, not due to any failing on the part of current members, but more of a lack of ways to encourage advocacy and develop interest...
I think you're exactly right. And I admire that she's committed to that and hope that she retains her commitment to foght for the benefit of all cyclists even if they have trouble changing the complexion of their organization.

I didn't think there was much in the letter to generate so much discussion, but I'm glad it got posted... it's been really interesting hearing everyone's take on it.

The complexion of the organization matters becase it's not representing the wider majority or cyclists
Complexion is not the only issue that differentiates some advocates from the wider majority of cyclists. This has been the crux of my beef with the Club cycling/California-Sun Belt/Suburban orientation of almost all advocacy that is based on the schemes of Forester and his acolytes.

City dwellers, youth, older people get the back of the hand (if acknowleged at all) from the VC spokesmen; in fact the advocacy that claims to repre sent the "best" of cycling places the moniker of "incompetent" on anybody of any complexion who doesn't fit their profile of cycling enthusiasts who prize speed and so-called "efficiency" over all other considerations.

[Added edit] And especially ignored (when not scorned) by the VC enthusiast/elitist advocate are poor people of any color; those who ride their bargain bikes to school, grocery shopping or subsistance wage jobs and are not car-free by choice; cyclists not necessarily tuned into the speed and efficiency ethos or the joy of playing/dancing with cars in traffic.

In Louisiana, one could not help but notice that most of those left behind were minorities, most who evacuated before the flooding were white. That's a pure fact, and I doubt if it's a coincidence..

Perhaps it wasn't racism. Perhaps it was that out of a population of approximately 500,000 people, 340,000 of them - which is most - are black.



Generations of racism are frustratingly slow to end

There's nothing even remotely racist about people with available transportation and the common sense to recognize imminent danger getting out of town while they could.

-B

Typical liberal, bleeding heart, crap. Get a life.

WTF????? Do you have a itching hemorrhoid or what? The writer was a cycling advocate from NOLA. It is a fact that the demographics of the cycling movement is largely white middle/upper class. It is also a fact that there are many poor people that rely on bikes but are not in touch with the cycling movement and could use outreach. It could only make cycling advocacy stronger and riding for everyone safer (lighting, riding correctly, etc).


What's crap about that?

Duh. I have no idea what you are talking about.

Don't sweat it. He thinks you pulled the race card. He should watch Beauty Shop with Queen Latifa.
:rolleyes: