Sincitycycler
09-18-05, 11:33 PM
I'm confused at the rankings of Campy. I know the Record is their highest. What about Veloce, Mirage, and any othe I missed? :)
Bicycle Mechanics - Rank the level of Campy components?
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cs1
09-19-05, 07:59 AM
Currently it goes from top to bottom:
Record
Chorus
Daytona/Centaur
Veloce
Mirage
Xenon
The Daytona name no longer used due to trademark infringment. Centaur used to be the name of a Campy MTB group also. There is also a Pista track group that is about Record level. So far no MTB groups. Veloce is the best buy for the money group.
Tim
Record
Chorus
Daytona/Centaur
Veloce
Mirage
Xenon
The Daytona name no longer used due to trademark infringment. Centaur used to be the name of a Campy MTB group also. There is also a Pista track group that is about Record level. So far no MTB groups. Veloce is the best buy for the money group.
Tim
HillRider
09-19-05, 10:57 AM
There is one confusing name you will sometimes see. "Daytona" was once the group just below Chorus but Campy ran into copyright problems with Chrysler which had trademarked the name for a car. Instead of contesting the infringement claim, Campy just changed the name to Centaur for the same components.
cs1
09-19-05, 12:23 PM
There is one confusing name you will sometimes see. "Daytona" was once the group just below Chorus but Campy ran into copyright problems with Chrysler which had trademarked the name for a car. Instead of contesting the infringement claim, Campy just changed the name to Centaur for the same components.
HillRider, I have a Daytona 10 speed group and I can't believe how nice it is. It's really Record quality from 5 years ago. It is the nicest all aluminum group Campy makes. It's only a few hundred more than Veloce too. Definitley better than anything ShimaNo makes.
Tim
HillRider, I have a Daytona 10 speed group and I can't believe how nice it is. It's really Record quality from 5 years ago. It is the nicest all aluminum group Campy makes. It's only a few hundred more than Veloce too. Definitley better than anything ShimaNo makes.
Tim
fmw
09-19-05, 02:44 PM
You can put these into three groups of technology. The technology seems to remain consistent in each group but the latest technology seems to migrate from the higher one to the lower one.
Record and Chorus are the highest tech groups that incorporate significant amounts of carbon fiber to affect weight reductions. They are similar to each other. The bike I'm building has Chorus shifters and rear deraillleur with a record bottom bracket. All these parts use carbon fiber in various areas with the Record using it more. They really work at reducing weight with them. As an example, the Record brakeset uses a double pivot brake on the front for better stopping power but a single pivot on the rear for lower weight. Rear braking is less important than front braking in terms of the braking power involved so it is a place where weight can be saved without compromising performance. These are the most advanced drive train components in the industry.
Centaur and Veloce are very similar to each other and are a step down from the first group. The parts are aluminum where the first pair would have carbon fiber. The front derailleurs, as an example, are identical for the two groups and the cranks are nearly identical. I view these components as similar in technology to the Dura ace and Ultegra in the Shimano line but slightly heavier.
Mirage and Xenon are the two budget groups. You might think of them as being similar to the 105 and Tiagra groups in the Shimano line. Good quality and reliability with somewhat less fit, finish and precision and yet a little more weight.
I've ridden Record, Chorus and Veloce. I don't think there is much difference between them in terms of function, reliability and performance. The major differences are in fit, finish and weight - and price, of course. The smoothest, most precise shifting bike I own is almost completely Veloce except for the front derailleur which is Centaur. My Shimano equipped bikes (2 of them) are excellent but not quite as precise or smooth. The Campy components are a luxury but they are definitely more expensive. Hope this helps put things into perspective.
Record and Chorus are the highest tech groups that incorporate significant amounts of carbon fiber to affect weight reductions. They are similar to each other. The bike I'm building has Chorus shifters and rear deraillleur with a record bottom bracket. All these parts use carbon fiber in various areas with the Record using it more. They really work at reducing weight with them. As an example, the Record brakeset uses a double pivot brake on the front for better stopping power but a single pivot on the rear for lower weight. Rear braking is less important than front braking in terms of the braking power involved so it is a place where weight can be saved without compromising performance. These are the most advanced drive train components in the industry.
Centaur and Veloce are very similar to each other and are a step down from the first group. The parts are aluminum where the first pair would have carbon fiber. The front derailleurs, as an example, are identical for the two groups and the cranks are nearly identical. I view these components as similar in technology to the Dura ace and Ultegra in the Shimano line but slightly heavier.
Mirage and Xenon are the two budget groups. You might think of them as being similar to the 105 and Tiagra groups in the Shimano line. Good quality and reliability with somewhat less fit, finish and precision and yet a little more weight.
I've ridden Record, Chorus and Veloce. I don't think there is much difference between them in terms of function, reliability and performance. The major differences are in fit, finish and weight - and price, of course. The smoothest, most precise shifting bike I own is almost completely Veloce except for the front derailleur which is Centaur. My Shimano equipped bikes (2 of them) are excellent but not quite as precise or smooth. The Campy components are a luxury but they are definitely more expensive. Hope this helps put things into perspective.
rufvelo
09-19-05, 03:37 PM
I thought of using inexpensive Veloce for a certain bike until I actually saw the gear in person. COuldn't believe something this cheap and poorly made carried the 'Campagnolo' brand - very dissappointing.
For my other bikes I've settled on Ultegra as the best value/engineering you can get of any brand of components - great looking and functioning components when DuraAce or Record will simply not provide any additional benefit for me.
For my other bikes I've settled on Ultegra as the best value/engineering you can get of any brand of components - great looking and functioning components when DuraAce or Record will simply not provide any additional benefit for me.
fmw
09-19-05, 05:04 PM
I thought of using inexpensive Veloce for a certain bike until I actually saw the gear in person. COuldn't believe something this cheap and poorly made carried the 'Campagnolo' brand - very dissappointing.
For my other bikes I've settled on Ultegra as the best value/engineering you can get of any brand of components - great looking and functioning components when DuraAce or Record will simply not provide any additional benefit for me.
Well, there you go. Controversy. My opinion is the opposite. I find the Veloce gruppo to be nicer than the Ultegra gruppo I own. The Ultegra stuff is very nice to be sure but it doesn't work quite as well as the Veloce and isn't as durable either. It is probably a little lighter. Too bad you didn't actually ride it so could have formed a more informed impression.
For my other bikes I've settled on Ultegra as the best value/engineering you can get of any brand of components - great looking and functioning components when DuraAce or Record will simply not provide any additional benefit for me.
Well, there you go. Controversy. My opinion is the opposite. I find the Veloce gruppo to be nicer than the Ultegra gruppo I own. The Ultegra stuff is very nice to be sure but it doesn't work quite as well as the Veloce and isn't as durable either. It is probably a little lighter. Too bad you didn't actually ride it so could have formed a more informed impression.
HillRider
09-19-05, 05:06 PM
Centaur used to be the name of a Campy MTB group also.
Wasn't the (or an) MTB group called "Oxygen"? I don't recall the Centaur name being used in the past but I'm not sure of this at all.
Wasn't the (or an) MTB group called "Oxygen"? I don't recall the Centaur name being used in the past but I'm not sure of this at all.
rufvelo
09-19-05, 06:16 PM
Too bad you didn't actually ride it so could have formed a more informed impression.
Non issue, since I couldn't bring myself to actually buy and install on the bike to even give it a try. Products coming from the Campy and Shimano houses need to be both reliable, smartly engineered and very aesthetically pleasing just overall top notch whether the group is at $500 or $2500. You shouldn't have to spend $2K to be able to shift derailleur gears - we're getting into automotive transmission territory here and the complexity doesn't compare.
I've used the very same Ultegra for 8 years and 30,000 miles, more than enough reliability for me and they don't look like they're about to give out yet. I've also used some form of Shimano 600 for as long as ever with the same positive results.
Non issue, since I couldn't bring myself to actually buy and install on the bike to even give it a try. Products coming from the Campy and Shimano houses need to be both reliable, smartly engineered and very aesthetically pleasing just overall top notch whether the group is at $500 or $2500. You shouldn't have to spend $2K to be able to shift derailleur gears - we're getting into automotive transmission territory here and the complexity doesn't compare.
I've used the very same Ultegra for 8 years and 30,000 miles, more than enough reliability for me and they don't look like they're about to give out yet. I've also used some form of Shimano 600 for as long as ever with the same positive results.
jhota
09-19-05, 09:45 PM
Wasn't the (or an) MTB group called "Oxygen"? I don't recall the Centaur name being used in the past but I'm not sure of this at all.
there were several Campy MTB gruppos btween '89 and '94. they were:
Euclid
Centaur
Olympus
Icarus
Record OR
i don't know the differences in the groups other than Record OR was top-o-the-line and Centaur was (and is) the most common. the parts didn't have the same "ethereal" quality of some of Campy's road parts; instead, they had a solidity reminiscent of a W140 S-Class.
as for "ranking" Campagnolo's road groups, why not visit the company website (http://www.campagnolo.com/home.php)? that's what i'd do.
sarcasm aside, i've got a Mirage-equipped bike, and it shifts as sweetly as any Shimano-equipped bike i've ever tried. i haven't rode DA 10, but i have tried Ultegra 10, DA 8 & 9, and 105. the big reason i went Campy is the brifter design; i just prefer it.
as for cost/benefit, i'd never spend my own money on DA. Ultegra, sure. but i would spend it on Record (if i could afford it). mainly because the finish of the parts is so spectacular, rather than any real performance upgrade.
there were several Campy MTB gruppos btween '89 and '94. they were:
Euclid
Centaur
Olympus
Icarus
Record OR
i don't know the differences in the groups other than Record OR was top-o-the-line and Centaur was (and is) the most common. the parts didn't have the same "ethereal" quality of some of Campy's road parts; instead, they had a solidity reminiscent of a W140 S-Class.
as for "ranking" Campagnolo's road groups, why not visit the company website (http://www.campagnolo.com/home.php)? that's what i'd do.
sarcasm aside, i've got a Mirage-equipped bike, and it shifts as sweetly as any Shimano-equipped bike i've ever tried. i haven't rode DA 10, but i have tried Ultegra 10, DA 8 & 9, and 105. the big reason i went Campy is the brifter design; i just prefer it.
as for cost/benefit, i'd never spend my own money on DA. Ultegra, sure. but i would spend it on Record (if i could afford it). mainly because the finish of the parts is so spectacular, rather than any real performance upgrade.
fmw
09-20-05, 04:20 AM
as for cost/benefit, i'd never spend my own money on DA. Ultegra, sure. but i would spend it on Record (if i could afford it). mainly because the finish of the parts is so spectacular, rather than any real performance upgrade.
Sometimes it is a combination of things. I installed a Record bottom bracket in my new build last night and I was blown away. Not only is the BB light and sexy looking with its carbon fiber body, but when I spin the cranks with the bike on the repair stand, they just keep going and going and going. Great bearings. The BB doesn't even show on a bike but I have a really good feeling about my new build just because of it. How you feel about a bike is intangible but important too.
Sometimes it is a combination of things. I installed a Record bottom bracket in my new build last night and I was blown away. Not only is the BB light and sexy looking with its carbon fiber body, but when I spin the cranks with the bike on the repair stand, they just keep going and going and going. Great bearings. The BB doesn't even show on a bike but I have a really good feeling about my new build just because of it. How you feel about a bike is intangible but important too.