Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - locking my solid axle wheels

So i just bought a new set of wheels on Formula hubs, and apparently they can't be rethreaded with quick-release axles because of their construction... this sucks because i wanted to put my locking skewers on the wheels so i wouldn't have to haul around an extra lock/cable for the front wheel... anyone have any tips/tricks/solutions for how one might secure a bolt-on wheel to a bike to make it unsavory to the thieves that might like to steal my shiny new wheels?

i've heard of two strategies

1. use two different sized nuts so the potential thief has to
have two wrenches (or one adjustable)

2. use BMX pegs so said thief has to have a deep socket
extension

that's all I've got

Eh, I wouldn't trust QRs on a fixie. I've heard baaaad things. Just carry around a little cable lock - they're light and reasonably theft proof (just the fact that it's there).

You could always try to find a fork lock (http://oldroads.com/mn0.jpg) of some sort. (I know they make more modern ones, but that's all I could find.)

Eh, I wouldn't trust QRs on a fixie. I've heard baaaad things.
Oh yea? What things have you heard about QRs on a fixie? Source?

I have been running QR on my fixie since its inception, and haven't had a single problem.

No slippage. EVER.

If you were careless and didn't tighten down enough, I could see why a QR in back would be bad, but having a QR up front is more convenient to me. I think I'd feel a little nervous with a QR in back on a track bike, but if you actually make sure it's tightened down well, I guess there's no real reason why it wouldn't be OK.

If you were careless and didn't tighten down enough, I could see why a QR in back would be bad, but having a QR up front is more convenient to me. I think I'd feel a little nervous with a QR in back on a track bike, but if you actually make sure it's tightened down well, I guess there's no real reason why it wouldn't be OK.
What would happen if you were careless with your bolt on hubs, and didn't tighten them enough?

There's no rearon to fear a QR. Adding the word "track" doesn't change anything, either.

Serated Steel QRs, paired with quality steel dropouts, and steel hub locknut faces don't slip. Period. Add aluminum into this equation, all bets are off.

Oh yea? What things have you heard about QRs on a fixie? Source?

I have been running QR on my fixie since its inception, and haven't had a single problem.

No slippage. EVER.
I thought I'd heard some horror stories here, and Sheldon advises against it (under normal circumstances), although he has one himself. I just wouldn't trust myself to set it up perfectly. I slipping QR on a roadie is much less of a concern (unless you're going super fast downhill) than on a fixie, it seems. But hey, if it works, it works!

EDIT: Sorry, I thought cusack meant a rear wheel. Front should be no problem. That's what I'll be doing...

Wow, my question quickly derailed into a debate over skewers v bolts... for the record... my old set-up consisted of a bolt-on rear with a quick-release front hub secured with a locking skewer... a friend of mine rides a singlespeed geared at around 52-16 and used to pull off his rear wheel going up hills... he recently switched to locking skewers and hasn't had the problem... regardless, it looks like i will be resigned to carrying around an extra cable... thanks for the tips! (oh and i am not trying to snark about the change of topic... i realized there probably wasn't a lot of info for what i was asking)

What would happen if you were careless with your bolt on hubs, and didn't tighten them enough?

There's no rearon to fear a QR. Adding the word "track" doesn't change anything, either.

Seratted Steel QRs, paired with quality steel dropouts, and seratted steel hub locknut faces don't slip. Period. Add aluminum into this equation, all bets are off.

Personally I find it much easier to tighten track nuts than a QR. If I had a QR on my fixed gear however I would be sure to tighten it down as much as possible.

I thought I'd heard some horror stories here, and Sheldon advises against it (under normal circumstances)...

No I don't! Skewers rule, but only if they're good skewers. There are so many junky exposed-cam skewers out there that they've given them all a bad name, but good skewers properly secured hold well in most cases.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/qr for the skinny on good vs bad skewers.

Sheldon "Quick Release" Brown

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| but I would have suffered a hell of a lot |
| more if I had been understood. |
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No I don't! Skewers rule, but only if they're good skewers. There are so many junky exposed-cam skewers out there that they've given them all a bad name, but good skewers properly secured hold well in most cases.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/qr for the skinny on good vs bad skewers.

Sheldon "Quick Release" Brown
Oops. My mistake! I thought I had read on your site that it could be pretty iffy. Well, carry on.

Wow, my question quickly derailed into a debate over skewers v bolts... for the record... my old set-up consisted of a bolt-on rear with a quick-release front hub secured with a locking skewer... a friend of mine rides a singlespeed geared at around 52-16 and used to pull off his rear wheel going up hills... he recently switched to locking skewers and hasn't had the problem... regardless, it looks like i will be resigned to carrying around an extra cable... thanks for the tips! (oh and i am not trying to snark about the change of topic... i realized there probably wasn't a lot of info for what i was asking)
just get some phil hex key track nuts and glue some bearings in there. it'll be fairly safe...

just get some phil hex key track nuts and glue some bearings in there. it'll be fairly safe...

Unlike most track hubs, Phils use bolts, not nuts. The Phil bolts don't work with any other hub.

Sheldon "Phils Are The Best" Brown
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If you get Phils, you can run the locking skewers with the QR adaptor conversion kit that Phil sells.

Read this thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=63312

Unaesthetic did this:

http://unaesthetic.net/stuff/frankenbike2.jpg

Unlike most track hubs, Phils use bolts, not nuts. The Phil bolts don't work with any other hub.

Sheldon "Phils Are The Best" Brown
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| A billion here, a couple of billion there -- |
| first thing you know it adds up to be real money. |
| --Sen. Everett McKinley Dirksen |
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ahhhh. i thought that the phils were nuts that somehow worked with an allen key, but now that you say that i realize that doesnt make sense.

So i just bought a new set of wheels on Formula hubs, and apparently they can't be rethreaded with quick-release axles because of their construction...

Anyone know specifically why a quick-release axle can't be used with this hub? Or more generally, is there a rule of thumb that determines QR/bolt-on axle interchangeability?

that pitlock site is fairly terrible... but i got this far into it...

http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://pitlock.de/onlineshop/indexshop.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpitlock%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den-us

from what i can tell, that would be perfect... (if these Formula hubs have the same size axles as are listed compatible) but of course they don't sell them in the US... i think i will contact them and become the first US distributor... i am gonna make a million dollars! thanks all...

oops... broken link... sorry.

Anyone know specifically why a quick-release axle can't be used with this hub? Or more generally, is there a rule of thumb that determines QR/bolt-on axle interchangeability?


they are sealed cartridge hubs... i guess if you take them apart, they won't go back together...

i'm not for using qr on a fix, but if you had chain tugs, then there should be no issue. in fact a chain tug on the drive side should hinder any type of slippage.

Why not just slightly loosen the front wheel, remove it and lock it up against the rear wheel thru the frame?
Al

Anyone know specifically why a quick-release axle can't be used with this hub? Or more generally, is there a rule of thumb that determines QR/bolt-on axle interchangeability?

Generally if the hub uses cartridge bearings it needs a specific axle.
The axle needs a smooth surface of the correct diameter for the cartridge bearing to sit on. Many also have a step to prevent the bearing from being pushed too far onto the axle.
Since different hubs use different size bearings and position them differently in the hub shell axles are not interchangeable between different hubs.

There is nothing stopping the manufacturer or a third party from producing a qr axle for a particular hub but I expect this doesn't happen because demand for qr fixed hubs is very low. Looks like phil may be the only fixed hubs where this is an option.

i'm not for using qr on a fix, but if you had chain tugs, then there should be no issue. in fact a chain tug on the drive side should hinder any type of slippage.
Tugs or not, there is no issue. If taking your wheels off with a flick of the wrist scares you, then by all means don't run a QR.

el twe- see what ****ty infomation causes?

they are sealed cartridge hubs... i guess if you take them apart, they won't go back together...

That can't be accurate, because you can take the axle out to replace the bearings. I think I'm convinced by the argument that nobody probably makes a QR axle that fits it, that makes complete sense now that I think about it.

That can't be accurate, because you can take the axle out to replace the bearings. I think I'm convinced by the argument that nobody probably makes a QR axle that fits it, that makes complete sense now that I think about it.

most likely, given D_d's info... but if they are sealed cartridges you couldn't just replaced the bearings... you would have to replace the cartridges... or the entire hub, right?

el twe- see what ****ty infomation causes?
Yeah, yeah. I get the ****ing point. I already apollogized, for what it's worth...

back on topic, which is a better messenger bag, reload or timbuc2?

and which one would allow me to run a front brake on my chrome pista?

lolz....

Generally if the hub uses cartridge bearings it needs a specific axle.
The axle needs a smooth surface of the correct diameter for the cartridge bearing to sit on. Many also have a step to prevent the bearing from being pushed too far onto the axle.
Since different hubs use different size bearings and position them differently in the hub shell axles are not interchangeable between different hubs.

That's true of many cartridge bearing hubs, but not all.

The Suzue Promax and, I'm pretty sure, the Surly hubs use normal threaded axles, which can be replaced with hollow axles for quick release. There are threaded bushings sort of like normal cones that the bearings fit onto. This requires a bearing with a larger inside diameter, typically 12 mm.

If you do this, you need to be quite careful of adjustment. Tightening a QR skewer compresses the axle. With cup and cone bearings, adjusting for this is a routine matter, any half decent mechanic knows how to do this. With cartridge bearings, however, it isn't as easy to tell if the QR is exerting excessive side loads on the cartridges. If you do it wrong the carts self destruct.

Sheldon "Careful Adjustment" Brown

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