Cars not a good solution for hurricane evacuation?

[Platy]

After Katrina, some people have said that private cars are the only reliable solution for hurricane evacuation. Right now it appears from news reports that all the evacuation routes out of Houston are completely jammed, and that traffic is moving at less than 3 mph. Cars are overheating, breaking down, and running out of fuel.

Personally I am waiting for one of the evacuees to arrive at my apartment. She just called the sheriff's office in one of the counties she would be driving through and was told that traffic on the evacuation route is bumper to bumper (at midnight) and that it would be "faster to walk".

This is days before expected landfall. It is expected that many people in the Houston area will not even begin evacuating until tomorrow.

I think some folks have implied that being carfree is irresponsible because only a car can get you to safety in case an evacuation is required. But maybe cars aren't all that good a solution for emergency evacuation, either. I don't know what the solution would be, though.

[spider-man]

Buses would make more sense, because so many people can ride on them, in theory reducing the number of cars on the road while getting large numbers of people out.

A friend of mine began her evacuation by SUV from Houston at 2 early this morning. She is still on the road, still in Houston, seven hours later.

[mpop]

Heck if they are going only 3 MPH they could cover alot more ground biking on the grass. I hope for the best for all down in TX. I read some where that gas could go as high as $5 a gallon. that is going to hurt every one, even us car free people (but not as much)

[PaulH]

Based on my experiences during the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon, it was quite clear, from the view out my office window, that cars were nearly useless for evacuating the city. Most people just walked. All the stuck cars were an impediment to evacuation.

I think that many people should have walked out of New Orleans also. Perhaps allowing able-bodied people to stay at the stadium discouraged some from doing this. Bussing people out would have also helped.

Paul

[BenyBen]

Aye, I Think one might be able to outwalk the cars as well. Doesn't take much strenght to bike twice as fast as this either. I don't think I'd even consider a car.

What's the percentage of car ownership for the population over there? I think N-O had 30% car free people, which made the evacuation for drivers faster.

Are we seeing the results of a majorly car-owner population trying to evacuate?

[spider-man]

I think that many people should have walked out of New Orleans also. Perhaps allowing able-bodied people to stay at the stadium discouraged some from doing this. Bussing people out would have also helped.

Paul


New Orleans is a long way from anywhere, surrounded on three sides by water. Not many people could walk 80 miles to Baton Rouge. I'm not sure where else they might consider walking before the storm.

After the storm hit and it became apparent the situation was really bad, there were other complications. People couldn't walk east to Slidell because they have to cross the twin spans of I-10, which cross over Lake Pontchartrain and which were destroyed by Katrina anyway--as was Slidell. Wouldn't have done anyone any good to walk there.

They couldn't walk north to St. Tammany Parish because they would have to cross the flooded Lake Pontchartrain Causeway, the longest bridge in the world, which also crosses the lake.

It wouldn't make sense to have walked across the Crescent City Connection to the west bank of the Mississippi, because there's nothing there but small fishing communities. That and bayou.

Walking to Baton Rouge is possible, I guess, but people choosing to try it would still have to cross a long stretch of bridge (that was under water) over the Bonnet Carre Spillway and Lake Pontchartrain.

[spider-man]

I should add that my plan to evacuate if a catastrophic storm was headed for the city was to bicycle to Baton Rouge, Florida or toward Texas, depending on the storm track.

That plan went to pot because I was vacationing in Hawaii when Katrina hit my fair city.

[___]

What's the percentage of car ownership for the population over there?

Houston? HA! Like 140%.


Are we seeing the results of a majorly car-owner population trying to evacuate?

Bingo.

[Platy]

From cnn.com:

Houston resident Tim Conklin told CNN that he had been in bumper-to-bumper traffic for 13 hours and had only gotten about 48 miles. He said the drive to Dallas, where his father-in-law lives, usually only takes about four hours.

On Highway 290, the main road between Houston and Austin, people were pushing their cars and minivans to save gas -- and were moving just as fast as the vehicles that were driving. Others were stopped on the side of the highway after breaking down or running out of gas.

48 miles in 13 hours = 3.7 mph.

[Dahon.Steve]

Houston-Area Residents Flee As Rita Nears By ALICIA A. CALDWELL, Associated Press Writer

Highways leading inland out of Houston were clogged with bumper-to-bumper traffic for up to 100 miles north of the city. Gas stations were reported to be running out of gas. Shoppers emptied grocery store shelves of spaghetti, tuna and other nonperishable items. Hotels hundreds of miles inland filled up. Police officers along the highways carried gasoline to help motorists who ran out.

"We ended up going six miles in two hours and 45 minutes," said Moreno, whose neighborhood is not expected to flood. "It could be that if we ended up stranded in the middle of nowhere that we'd be in a worse position in a car dealing with hurricane-force winds than we would in our house.

With traffic at a dead halt, fathers and sons got out of their cars and played catch on freeway medians. Others stood next to their cars, videotaping the scene, or walked between vehicles, chatting with people along the way. Tow trucks tried to wend their way along the shoulders, pulling stalled cars out of the way.

[jamesdenver]

are side routes (like state highways or small county roads) just as congested? or are they not allowed to be used?

i'd grab my map out of the glove box and head away from the crowd if possible, if course i've never been in that situation.

[___]

are side routes (like state highways or small county roads) just as congested? or are they not allowed to be used?

i'd grab my map out of the glove box and head away from the crowd if possible, if course i've never been in that situation.

The back roads are just as bad. Too many people, too many cars.

[jimmuter]

Based on my experiences during the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon, it was quite clear, from the view out my office window, that cars were nearly useless for evacuating the city. Most people just walked.

My Dad was in the Pentagon that day. He walked home a piece of the way until someone he knew saw him and picked him up. I think he got out before the rest of the Pentagon folks got to their cars (have you ever seen how far it is from the parking lot to the building?). His problem was that he took the Metro and the Metro closed down after the attack. In an unforeseen emergency I'm not sure there is a great solution. By the time buses get deployed somewhere, the streets are already crowded with people who want to get the hell out.

If something happened here, I'm on my bike and gone.

[jimmuter]

New Orleans is a long way from anywhere, surrounded on three sides by water. Not many people could walk 80 miles to Baton Rouge. I'm not sure where else they might consider walking before the storm.

Anything would've been better than staying put. How about lifting a leftover car or bike from someone who had evacuated? Everything that got left behind was destroyed anyway. If I had my kids in New Orleans before the storm, I would've found a way to get out by hook or crook.

[lilHinault]

The car-centric evacuation is depressing and scary. They're traveling like 2 miles an hour, in the zone where you have to start thinking gallons per hour of use rather than miles per gallon. Not a good equation to be in. And biking hard for those who are not young but not too young, and in shape. There's walking, but it's hard for the average person to walk 5 miles much less 20 a day which I think is the standard for foot troops. Not Good.

[folder fanatic]

Add in the difficulty of finding gas anywhere in the evacuation zone, and it shows the sheer problem of too much reliance on cars to solve what was once a local/family/personal matter. Cars are nice I suppose if everything is running smoothly. Just don't have almost the whole population thinking the same thing-getting out in the same direction. The same with airports, bus stations, train stations (what is left of them), and goverment assistance. What's left? The old fashioned means of getting around-walking, animal powered vehicles, and cycling. It is still very strange that the more technologically advanced society becomes, the more we are forced to switched back to backward practices in order to survive.

[___]

It is still very strange that the more technologically advanced society becomes, the more we are forced to switched back to backward practices in order to survive.

....I hear ya, but relying on human (animal) power is not backwards.

[carless]

From the outset of construction of the Interstate System, the DOD has monitored its progress closely, ensuring direct military input to all phases of construction. The National Defense Highway System was responsible for building many of the first freeways. Its purpose was supposedly to allow for mass evacuation of cities in the event of a nuclear attack. The Interstate system was designed so that one mile in every five must be straight, usable as airstrips in times of war or other emergencies.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/ndhs.htm

Perhaps we should designate highways as Suburban Corridor's, under the supervision of developers, to ensure mass sprawl in the event of a real estate boom.

In times of emergency, whether it be flood or fire, our commitment to the residents of Louisiana remains a top priority- Louisiana National Guard Website.
http://www.la.ngb.army.mil/welcome.htm

I think that should read "In times of emergency, whether it be flood or fire, our commitment to the oil of Louisiana remains a top priority."

[clutching]

I noticed the inbound side of the highway was clear (for obvious reasons).
Why couldnt they use they use these lanes to run shuttle buses for evacuation???

[biodiesel]

Here's a tidbit. Most modern wester cities the average speed is between 10-20 mph. With traffic, stoplights etc. The more conjested cities are slower.
Any situation where the whole city tries to evacuate is going to be under the speeds at which alt trans operates. Not that everyone can even ride a bike 40 miles or would try, but it addresses something about the single family car ideal of evacutaion.

And in some places we could build more roads, Houston probably could. But many cities are too dense and more roads are physically impossable.
I work with Red Cross in California and our 'main road' in case of earthquake out of San Francisco is chosen to be the largest with the least bridges or overpasses. It stretches south through a very populated area to or through San Jose. THEN San Jose evacuates south...
If you've been in the area imagine the 7.5 million people of the SF metro area evacuating on El Camino Real??? The evacutaion plan calls for the National Guard to bulldoze the street clean, block all non- emergency vehicles and allow a steady flow of peds bikes etc. Basically you'd walk the 35 miles to San Jose. 7.5 million cars take up more square footage than there is roadway for almost 100 miles. Subtract roads damaged... you get the picture. If there was ever a tsunami warning in the bay area... ANY attempt at evacutaion would be a retarded idea. Heck during a normal rush hour it can take an hour to get 30 miles, best to tell people to get to high ground and brace themselves...

Lots of people (not specifically here) critisizing the Loisiana disater's management and not the nightmarish evac in Texas.
My spin... the people in charge just deal with the realities places in front of them and try to make the best of a bad situation. WE make the world the way it is... by voting for money for schools instead of levies, by moving to a city instead of living in the country... The only way to plan perfectly for all these things is to give up our democracy and have the government TELL us where to live, how to get to work, what to build. That they are ineffective stewards should be no suprise. They by nature are only responding to the messes we make. Half the relief effort out there is volunteer workers, the other half are people like the rest of us, trying to figure these things out as they go.
There will always be disasters bigger than a local governments ability to plan for them or cope with them. That's why we call them disasters.

Luckily there will always be other people willing to help.

Oh, by the way... i hear Red Cross is looking for volunteers...

[raisin]

Trains could get lots of people out quickly.

One would think this was a very, very good lesson in the importance of a good national public transportation system.

[lilHinault]

I've timed myself and also read a lot on the curse of car-dependence, the average speed is just as you say, 10-20, generally more like 10-15.

According to Ivan Illich, when you calculate the amount of time a person spends paying for their car, washing it, parking it, looking for it, etc it comes out more to 5MPH - the speed of walking.

[noriel]

I was sitting at home, watching all the people stuck in traffic trying to evacuate houston. Some people travelled 33 miles in 10-12 hours. I decided to head to my wife's hospital because she's a nurse and they were allowing family to stay there. Rita passed Houston by, but we still managed to have some Rita related casualties.

Around 2.5 million people were supposed to have been evacuated from Houston and the coastal counties. When you mix up that many people trying to leave, and residents that decided to stay, topping off their tanks, you end up with a fairly dry metropolitan area. The local gov't is trying to tell people to stagger their return to Houston and surrounding areas because there may not be any gas for all the people trying to return, and we'll probably see the same bottlenecks we saw during the evacuations.

I think I'll go out for a ride tomorrow to see how many cars will be out there. I'm betting there'll be a bottleneck on the way back, though.

[jimmuter]

Trains could get lots of people out quickly.

One would think this was a very, very good lesson in the importance of a good national public transportation system.

Great, unless the trains aren't running. One of the first things that happened on 9/11 is that many forms of public transportation were shut down for fear that an opportunistic terrorist would wreak more havoc using it. There is no silver bullet here. Well, maybe personal jetpacks.

[crazybikerchick]

New Orleans is a long way from anywhere, surrounded on three sides by water. Not many people could walk 80 miles to Baton Rouge. I'm not sure where else they might consider walking before the storm.

No probably not walk, but a fit cyclist could easily cover that distance during daylight hours. Are there any stories of anyone cycling from New Orleans to Baton Rouge for evacuation? Does the route that the cars used to drive to Baton Rouge have a paved shoulder where the bike could easily pass the slow moving traffic?

[spider-man]

No probably not walk, but a fit cyclist could easily cover that distance during daylight hours. Are there any stories of anyone cycling from New Orleans to Baton Rouge for evacuation? Does the route that the cars used to drive to Baton Rouge have a paved shoulder where the bike could easily pass the slow moving traffic?

Yeah, there's a bit linked to on the car-free forum somewhere that describes a car-free New Orleanian who rode to Baton Rouge the Sunday before Katrina hit.

There was also a story in the Times-Picayune the other day about an senior citizen who walked from Metairie (a NOLA suburb) to Baton Rouge. Took him two and half days. And then he was turned away from a shelter.

There's no real good route. There's a trail along the Mississippi River levee for part of the route, which would have been OK before the storm, but not after. But the back roads have little to no shoulder and fast-moving, careless traffic. The interstate is probably a better option.

[TxBiker]

We live in the NW side of Houston and tried to evacuate on Thursday morning around 5:00 am. I took all back roads and went 10 milesin 2 1/2 hours. We turned around and decided to hunker down. The shift in Rita made that decision an easy one to make (in hindsight).

I was talking to one of our clients today and he stated his trip to San Antonio took 3 days! (not hours....days!). So, imagine 72 hours and only traveling 199 miles. That is an average of 2.75 miles per hour. Heck, the MS 150 out of Houston (to Austin) is covered in two days!

We have decided that a bike trailer (bob yak, nomad, wike, etc...still up for debate) is not a luxury anymore but a necessity. We could have loaded a trailer with essentials, threw the kids on a trail-a-bike (still up in the air as an option) and left. We could have easily gotten to our destination in time to beat others....and we would have been in better shape both physically and mentally!

As to statements regarding the southbound/eastbound lanes, these highways are under state control and require the governer to open them up. They eventually did open them up (a bit late), but the traffic was too bad. Also, the evacuation was supposed to be in stages, but too many folks took the "voluntary" evacuation notice seriously and left. Wouldn't you....? The storm was a cat 5 with 175 mph winds at the time and heading straight for your city!!!

Regardless, this was a major learning situation with the unfortunate reality that lives were lost in this "lesson". As a citizen, all I can do is make every effor to make my "evacuation" less congestive and see to it that I educate others as well.

Thus, to the OPs topic - Katrina and Rita proved that cars/no cars showed serious signs of weakness in the ability to get people out. Public transportation, trains, bicycles, etc. are options that need to be explored.

Chris

[Walkafire]

...some close friends of mine and a group of people were NOT allowed to cross a Bridge in New Orleans to get out of the city... they were ON FOOT!

The police (Sheriff) were only allowing vehicles across.

Now where is the sense of that?

[spider-man]

That would be the Crescent City Connection on US 90. There have been some allegations of racism regarding that. The police chief of Gretna says he was protecting his city from looting --which was overblown in the national media anyway.

[webist]

I think emergency planners may have made the understandable estimate that each evacuating family would leave in one car. In truth, I suspect that many tried to take as much with them as possible to avoid losing possessions in the wind or flood, including "all" of the family vehicles for which they had drivers available. That's a bunch of extra cars, boats, trailers, motor homes and such potentially clogging already strained traffic arteries. Maybe?

[spider-man]

That wasn't the problem in New Orleans. Maybe Houston, though.

A lot of people in New Orleans didn't own cars. Like tens of thousands. The ones who did were able to get out if they wanted to.

[Bob Gabele]

Obviously, the respondents to this thread do not have children.....

Let's not be too smug, OK?

[Bob Gabele]

Before I get flamed on my previous comment....

I meant to say that those who imply that bikes are the best route out are the smug ones since they clearly could not have young children. I really don't know the best route out. Living in Ft. Lauderdale since '78 however, I have felt in harms way each and every "H" season. When you have those that you must care for, jumping on your bilke (read: every person for themselves) is simply not an option.

This is what I meant to say in my earlier post....

[TxBiker]

Before I get flamed on my previous comment....

I meant to say that those who imply that bikes are the best route out are the smug ones since they clearly could not have young children. I really don't know the best route out. Living in Ft. Lauderdale since '78 however, I have felt in harms way each and every "H" season. When you have those that you must care for, jumping on your bilke (read: every person for themselves) is simply not an option.

This is what I meant to say in my earlier post....

Hey Bob, I hear you on that. I have a 7 year old and a 5 year old. If I was car free (completely) I would most likely have a trailer, maybe a trail-a-bike, or some other options that might allow our family to "escape" by bike rather than car. Obviously, I would have the "potential" for more disposable income (sans the car payments, insurance, gas, upkeep, etc) and might have these items already in possession. Right now, I have none. However, this hurricane season has made me think differently. My goal this non-hurricane season is to teach my family better cycling skills so if the event arises again, bicycles are a viable option. I think the bottom line is preparation. Houston and New Orleans was caught off guard and it showed - miserably. We had to stick this one out because of our lack of preparation. In fact, we had cleaned out our fridge and pantry in preps to evacuate. We were stuck with very low food supply and closed stores because of our poor planning.

Thus, I hope LA, MS, FL, and TX residents have "good memories" and seek to better prepare themselves for this event. If that means bicycles, go for it. It if means packing key items away in a tupperware container to take only one car....do it. There are many things we have written down that we learned as a result of Rita. Who knows...maybe we will be tested again. There is another Low Pressure system near the gulf now that may head this way again in the coming days. Sheesh!

Chris
NW Houston

[noriel]

The Xtracycle was in my budget for this winter, but I think I'll move it up the pole while we still have some hurricane season left, and October is one of the more active months. With a 200lb capacity, I think I'll have most of my possessions/essentials covered. The capability to carry a kayak makes this an even better decision for me. As someone who considers himself more prepared than the average person, I'll have to admit that Rita caught me napping. I went on a downtown ride on the Monday before Rita hit, instead of getting some more gear together. What people forget is that you also gotta prepare for the time after the storm when stores don't get restocked.

[SpiderMike]

It if means packing key items away in a tupperware container to take only one car....do it. There are many things we have written down that we learned as a result of Rita. Who knows...maybe we will be tested again. There is another Low Pressure system near the gulf now that may head this way again in the coming days. Sheesh!

Chris
NW Houston

Key items, I saw so many non essentials. One of my coworkers said he saw even a cheap porch swing piled in the back of one truck.

They interviewed a family about the evacuation. The wife (with kid) ran out of gas or something, and the husband took off on his Mtn bike to find them. He said he got a lot of comments as he was going along 45. Wonder if those that witnessed him riding got influenced to ride a bike.......NAAAAAAHHHHH!

OH and I just hope that cool front hurries up and gets here first.