Winter Cycling - Nokian studded tires: 160 or 294?

I have an opportunity to get these at wholesale prices. So cost isn't the deciding factor. I need a 26" tire for my winter commuter and I have to pick. My commute consists of main roads mostly, but our plowing infrastructure in Reno/Sparks NV isn't very good. Last winter the street I live on didn't get plowed for weeks, and was very very icy. I am also a very heavy rider and so the more traction the better. I weight 330lbs. I do NOT want to fall.

Will the 160's be plenty or should I springs for the 294's? I fear that the 294's would be major overkill. But overkill is OK in this case. I just don't want to over-over do it ;)

I'm facing the same decision.
Like you, most of my commute is on main roads, but they are not cleared very often/quickly. I also tend to use a route with less traffic when the conditions are poor... this means side streets that are like a bumpier version of a bobsled track.

For me, If cost were not a factor, I'd go with the 294s. In addition to the extra studs, they are a bit wider than the 160s - possibly a bit better float in the soft stuff. Unfortunately, cost is a factor for me so I'm still undecided. I'm also trying to budget for a disc brake upgrade for this winter.

One thing you may also consider is the width that clevernamehere mentions. If your running fenders the 294s may not have enough clearance.

I'd go with the 160s It sounds like all you have to do is get out of your unplowed street and conditions improve. If most of your ride is on dry pavement, the 160s are best.

Paul

Well, I just got done talking with one of my coworkers about it. He has lived here a number of years and knows the conditions we face every winter. Last year alot of the roads didn't get plowed at all until it had already melted and re-freezed. So it looks like I'm going to get the 294's.

http://harriscyclery.net/site/images/library/catalogs/soc/prodl/TR1103.jpg

Should be enough I suppose.

Oh, and I am willing to forfeit a front fender on the days I have to use the studded tires. Its worth it to me. The rest of the year I run 26x1.25's so I can run the fenders then.... But the rear will be able to fit the fenders fine I think even with the 294's.

Thanks for the suggestions!!!

Well, I just got done talking with one of my coworkers about it. He has lived here a number of years and knows the conditions we face every winter. Last year alot of the roads didn't get plowed at all until it had already melted and re-freezed. So it looks like I'm going to get the 294's.

http://harriscyclery.net/site/images/library/catalogs/soc/prodl/TR1103.jpg

Should be enough I suppose.

Oh, and I am willing to forfeit a front fender on the days I have to use the studded tires. Its worth it to me. The rest of the year I run 26x1.25's so I can run the fenders then.... But the rear will be able to fit the fenders fine I think even with the 294's.

Thanks for the suggestions!!!


I run fenders with 2.0 studded tires. I can remember that most days last year, i would have hated to be without fenders!

I run fenders with 2.0 studded tires. I can remember that most days last year, i would have hated to be without fenders!

Hmm I'll see if I can make that fit. I have another fork I can swap in that has more fender clearance if it becomes an issue. Thanks for the tip!!

Float is a completely non-issue until you start talking 3.0" wide tires, really. For winter, since I can't run 3.0's, I think the narrower the better honestly... cuts through the crap down to pavment a bit easier.

Oh, and I am willing to forfeit a front fender on the days I have to use the studded tires. Its worth it to me. The rest of the year I run 26x1.25's so I can run the fenders then.... But the rear will be able to fit the fenders fine I think even with the 294's.

I'd rethink going without fenders if I were you. This is your first snowy winter, no? You'll be covered in a snowy, salty, sandy mess if you forgo the fenders.

Ice isn't as bad as many make it out to be. Last year I had an old set of very knobby Kenda studded tires (700x40). My were they sloooow. I switched to Conti Top Touring and had no problems.

This year my commute is taking me over a lot of roads that never get plowed so I've bought a set of Nokian 106 (700x35) tires. The tread is less agressive and it has fewer studs than the Kenda's. I feel that less agressive tread and fewer studs are much better for city/suburban riding. The 294's are for back country, off road, icey conditions. In the city cars will help to pack down the snow, giving you a nice little path to ride on. Have fun this winter!

I got the 294´s and they are heavy but good- due to the lack of clearance I mounted the fender differently, i.e. above the curved mounting point on the fork rather than below it. The LBS laughed when they saw it but it did the job

OK I'm going to go with the 294's but I'm going to do what it takes to make fenders fit, too. Thanks for all the help guys I appreciate it. The 294's are probably overkill but I'd rather err on the side of safety. I'd really hate to buy the 160's and then wish I had bought the 294's. Besides, with the 294's, I'll be INVINCIBLE! Bwaaahahahahaa <evil laughter>

Is it really for riding on roads?
In that case, the 160 are more than enough and the 106 are probably very OK.
Peter White has good explanation of the tires here (http://peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp)

Basically, wider tires are useful for offroad riding. I ride on roads year round, mostly with 700x37 knobbies, but I install the 700x35 Hakkapeliitta (106 studs) when there is hard, uneven ice on the ground. Usually, if these aren't enough, it's because there is too much snow on the ground. Studded tires or not, I am not really able to ride through 0,5 - 1 m of fresh snow.

Riding on trails is different, because you may be riding on top of 1 m tall snowbanks that are hard, so the wheels aren't going through all of it, but only through the top coat. And since trails are rutted, spikes on the sides help.

Full coverage, high clearance, fenders with 294's.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=37401

and


http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=40347

I can't use a Front Fender with the Shock I have (Answer Mach5)
So I use this:
http://www.planetbike.com/images1/7003n.jpg
Works Great!

Grunge Board | Strap-on Down Tube Grunge Guard From Planet Bike

I ride a mtn bike around a ski resort all winter (ski resort employee here) . I am often riding on ice and snow pack, dodging shuttle busses and cars, fending for my life all for the sake of a getting a fresh brew from the local java hut. Then it's back to the office with cup in hand. I've certainly biffed it a few times and the studs weren't there to help much. One time I threw a chain ...that was a come to Jesus moment for sure.

I wore out the studded tires in a few ski seasons.

The following winter season I just ran with regular knobbies. I was surprised to find that studded tires are not really any improvement over the regular knobbies for cornering, braking and starting. I had not increased the level of carnage. I have increased my snow/ice riding skills. That seems to make a much bigger difference than knobbies vs. studs.

my .02 YMMV

studded tires are about the same as knobbies in snow unless there is ice underneath.

studded tires require extra care on pavement and are NOT as good as knobbies.

On a hard packed snow/ ice road they are much better than knobbies.

ON flat ice like a skating rink it's close to riding on pavement, I can bank the bike, slam on the brakes, and do wheelies.

On a lake, glare ice, or especially bumpy rutted frozen footsteps where people walk and it refreezes, Like a frozen path, studded tires will allow you to ride right over bumpy ice that would be IMPOSSIBLE with knobbies or even walking.

There are many kinds, many sizes, many patterns, and different amounts of studs on studded tires, they also can be run at different pressures, and they handle differently on different bikes.

Also some tires have long lasting tungsten carbide studs and some have steel that wear out quickly. Some you can buy replacement studs for and even a replacing tool and others you cannot.

Using Nokian 294's that have carbide easily replaceable studs, running them at 25 psi on a steel hardtail Giant mtb with front suspension and a suspension seatpost...I can ride right over 3" to 4" deep holes and bumps made by foot prints that get refrozen. If the bumps get down to about 2" or less than 3" I can go over them pretty fast and do it for 20 miles or more. Been doing it for many years. I like it so much I bought the suspension seat post so I can go longer distances.

Well after MUCH deliberation, I am going to get the 160's. If it get too bad to ride with those, then I don't need to be riding really. Besides I don't think the 294's will fit with fenders at all. I also want to be able to leave the tires on all winter, and I can't see doing that with the 294's.

Well after MUCH deliberation, I am going to get the 160's. If it get too bad to ride with those, then I don't need to be riding really. Besides I don't think the 294's will fit with fenders at all. I also want to be able to leave the tires on all winter, and I can't see doing that with the 294's.

Did you look at the pictures of my bike with 294's and full fenders?

What make and model of fenders are those?
What make and model of water bottles are those?

HIs fenders are Topeak Defenders i believe. I have the same fenders. HIs have some modifications to extend fender coverage. I am happy with mine the way they come.

Unsure on the water bottles but I think i recall him posting about them before. I use Polar Water Bottles in the winter and they are great at keeping water thawed for long periods of time. NOt perfect, but pretty good. I can go 1 hour without freezing water in temps below 0 F.

I did look at your pictures but mine is not a suspension fork, and won't take those kinds of fenders. I'm going to be buying Freddy Fenders, the 60mm wide ones. They are your standard full coverage fenders.I barely have room (without fenders) for 26x2.125 slick tires, so I doubt that 2.1 studded tires would fit with fenders on.

I did look at your pictures but mine is not a suspension fork, and won't take those kinds of fenders. I'm going to be buying Freddy Fenders, the 60mm wide ones. They are your standard full coverage fenders.I barely have room (without fenders) for 26x2.125 slick tires, so I doubt that 2.1 studded tires would fit with fenders on.

If you are going to ride in the snow much it is nice to have a lot of clearance between the tires and the fenders to help prevent clogging. The knobbier the tire the more clogging you get. My back fenders go above the back brake bridge, and use the rack as part of the fender. I could not have gotten fenders under the brake bridge either.

With plastic fenders you can cut them and change them so easily, it's good to just consider the basic fender as a starting point if you need to change something. I made mine out of pieces of other fenders left over from other projects. It was very easy. You basically can make whatever you want fit with fenders. Yes the front is Topeak with another piece added on. The two back pieces are leftovers from ?

The bottles are vacuum insulated stainless. They will keep water from freezing all day, and keep coffee hot for a couple of hours. They are made by Thermos, there are many types on line.

Google "vacuum flask" for bottles like that.

edit post: Without a lot of tread, like a semislick with not much tread in the middle and knobs on the side, you don't get much clogging. Even in black mud up above the pedals this set up does not clog.
This is 1.95 Maxxis worm drives and the Freddie Fenders you are thinking about. Unless the snow is sticky this does not clog, but if the snow is sticky it will clog right up. The mud is heavy, so it just falls down, the sticky snow is much lighter so it gets carried around the wheel until it hits something.

I run pretty massive DH-type tires in the winter (riding a lot of trails, I crave the float that Seely speaks of) and I have very little frame clearance (though not because of the fenders). I've never noticed much increase in resistance from snow getting jammed in there. Generally if the snow is soft and sticky enough to get picked up by the tires and packed in there, I am getting so much resistance from just plowing through it that I'd never notice the tire drag.

But as always, I find the deal is that there are so many different types of snow-cover that one can be riding on/in, I can't make too many generalizations. In different regions, my advice might be meaningless.

Go with more studs on the front, less (or none for the brave). I stopped going studless in winter when I was around forty. I dont wanna fall down anymore ! Here in Oslo we have all kinds of cold weather in winter and I will sacrifice speed for safety from november to march. Less studs on your rear will give you a skittish rear end but it does not move too much before the studs get a grip. I use old Nokian Extreme front and Mount and Ground rear. ( they do last many years, I commute and do some xc tours all through winter. My tires are into their 6. season now)

I'm going to buy Nokian WXC 300s. When i get them, i am going to do a test with WXC 300 vs one Bontragers(really made by Kenda) which i got with my Trek 4300 (2003 mod.). When the test is done, i will keep you informed.

Have same setup here -- Extreme in front, Mount and Ground in rear. Works pretty well, but I wish I had an Extreme in rear, since the front floats better, but the narrower rear tire tends to cut through and then slew around more.

I think Peter White's description of tire suitability is too optimistic, since he says the Extreme's are overkill for urban riding. I ride on paved bike paths that are occasionally plowed, usually rutted from bicycles and foot traffic, with icy high-walled ruts in the morning that are sometimes partially melted by evening. You want a big fat front tire that has studs on the sides that'll climb out of the ruts, rather than getting caught in the ruts and flipping you.

The studs are great on ice. Good in snow. Not much help in slush, but I suspect no worse than regular rubber. But on wet, iron plates, they can be tricky, and I went down last winter in a moment of inattention.

I'm running Nokian Extreme 296's front and back on a Pisgah hardtail...no fenders. I live in a college town that maintains the trail system pretty well, but clears the snow with ice polishers--the little tractors with the car wash brushes on the front. The 296's are fabulous on the polished ice. In snow they are no better than an aggressive knobby. As far as wear goes, this will be my third season on them and I don't really have any wear problems with the studs, I think the asphalt trails are pretty easy on them, but I also think Nokian makes a fantastic tire. Well worth the $$.

Have same setup here -- Extreme in front, Mount and Ground in rear. Works pretty well, but I wish I had an Extreme in rear, since the front floats better, but the narrower rear tire tends to cut through and then slew around more.

I think Peter White's description of tire suitability is too optimistic, since he says the Extreme's are overkill for urban riding. I ride on paved bike paths that are occasionally plowed, usually rutted from bicycles and foot traffic, with icy high-walled ruts in the morning that are sometimes partially melted by evening. You want a big fat front tire that has studs on the sides that'll climb out of the ruts, rather than getting caught in the ruts and flipping you.

The studs are great on ice. Good in snow. Not much help in slush, but I suspect no worse than regular rubber. But on wet, iron plates, they can be tricky, and I went down last winter in a moment of inattention.

I ride on a similar path with what sounds like the same conditions ocasionally. My experience is exactly like yours.

Well I just placed the order. I should have the Mount and Ground 26x1.9's 160 stud tires here in 7-10 days. Here's to winter biking!