Advocacy & Safety - Dogs

As both a runner and biker, dogs are my biggest headache, worse than cars. I live in the country, and folks out here seem to think that it is OK to let their dogs run loose. While the great majority of them are well behaved, there are a couple who are a constant annoyance at best, a real danger at worst. What can I use to "discourage" them, and where do I buy it? Are there any legal implications of using something like pepper spray/mace, etc. on an aggressive canine?

If you want to train a dog to stop chasing bikes, one of the worst things you can do is to try to outrun them. Start by saying "NO!" Well trained dogs may actually react to that. If they still don't stop, stop your bike and get off with your bike between you and the dog just in case they don't stop. Don't be afraid to pick the bike up and smack them with it if they're still aggresive, but usually they stop chasing and look at you really confused. Then you tell them "NO!"

You can also carry a small water gun full off vinegar and water. You can squirt them with it while moving if you're a good rider and a good shot, or you can stop and give them a squirt. Always say "NO" in a loud and firm voice when you do it.

Back in the old days I smacked a couple with my handy frame mounted zefal pump, tossed water bottles at them, squirted water bottles at them, etc. The problem is that you can easily crash while doing these things.

I have maced a dog once after trying several times to train him to stop. He never chased me again. I'm no lawyer, but I doubt there would be any legal problems from macing a dog that was being aggresive. Again, I would stop the bike first to maximize accuracy and minimize getting any mace blown back on me. That stuff is not pleasant.

Some local riders have actually taken a persistently irresponsible dog owner to court after one rider hit the dog and went down. They won thier case, and now the owner (who was extremely belligerent before) now keeps the dogs under control.

Az

I have seen what is advertised as "dog repellant" in more than one lbs, which is essentially dog mace. I don't think that a reputable bike shop would sell something that their customers could get in trouble for using as directed. Here's an exerpt of one description:

EPA approved Muzzle dog repellent provides safe, effective and humane protection against canine attack. Canine repellent is ideal protection for walkers, joggers, cyclists, or delivery people. Stops attacking dogs and forces them to retreat. You'll never have to be scared of another dog. Keep with you whenever you're out.

Mace brand Muzzle canine repellent is an excellent product for defending against attacking dogs. This specially formulated pepper spray is designed specifically for dogs and has been proven to be effective in encounters with aggressive canines. If a dog attacks you, spraying this repellent in it's face will stop him in his tracks. It will overpower the animal and he will retreat. If you jog or take walks, then you should carry this dog spray with you. It is lightweight, easily accessible, and will provide fast protection when you need it most.

Hope this helps. I've tried the outrun the dog method and it just isn't wise. Now I always carry dog mace on rides.

As an enthusiast of large breed working dogs, I can tell you for a fact that dog repellants, water, vinegar, etc are not going to deter a vicious dog. That said, most dogs that chase bicycles do so because they are genetically driven to chase things that move quickly. If you stop, they will lose interest and most likely go away. If the dog continues to harrass you, NEVER hit the dog, wave anything at it, or look it in the eye. These things will provoke the dog, and you will get hurt. Really, the only defense against a dog that is determined to attack you is pepper spray, and I don't mean one of these little one shot deals you pick up at the quicky mart. You need a large can of serious pepper spray that will give you multiple shots of potent stopping power, so you have enough time to get the hell out of there. Pepper spray is not going to do any long term harm to the animal, and it's perfectly legal to use it against a dog. The only problem I'm aware of is some places might consider pepper spray a weapon, so various ordinances my apply to how and where you can carry it.

Of course I'm not saying that dogs never bite -- they sometimes do. (I've been bitten twice; luckily, small dogs both times!) But I have a hunch that as many or more people get hurt because thay fall off their bike while trying to outrun a dog. Or the dog actually jumps on them to cause a fall. Does this make sense to others?

What can I use to "discourage" them,

I slow down (not stop, just slow) and say "Hey Puppy, Hey Puppy....."

It's worked with every dog so far. I think it's the slowing down that confuses them. They just stop chasing me......

I used to try to outrun them......but was afraid that the dog might dart out in front of me....they've gotten close before I discovered the "Puppy Method."

On three separate occasions I've been chased by dogs that got run over by a car in the process. As far as putting an end to chasing dogs I have thought about calling animal control. Not sure if it would work but might be worth a try. Kicking them in the head has also worked temporarily but a couple of days later they're back in action after the headache subsides. :D

You know the old joke about 2 walkers in the woods and the bear? The first guy asks the second guy "What would you do if a bear suddenly were to appear?".

The second guy answers - "Well I would run like hell."
To which the first guy says - "You know you can't outrun a bear!"
And the second guy replies - "I don't have to - I just have to outrun you!"

Back when I was a veteran group rider we knew all the local problem dogs, where they lived, and how far they would chase you. If that days ride took us past one of the scruffy demons we would silently cruise to the front of the group as we approached it's house. Suddenly we'd give a hoot and hollar to wake him up and sprint for all we were worth, leaving it to our surpised compratriots to deal with the aftermath!

Parson's Ammonia in a squirter of some type ought to do it, that stuff's strong.

The legal repercussions for letting a dangerous animal run loose are much more severe than anything you could do to a dog.
I had to cut short what was otherwise a great MTB ride because of dogs. My friend and I were enjoying the view when two enormous dogs came running off of someone's property toward the trail. We didn't wait to see if they meant well or not, we just bombed down the hill. With big dogs, I don't want to have to get close enough to use pepper spray or my frame pump.

By the way, I like dogs in general.

You know the old joke about 2 walkers in the woods and the bear? The first guy asks the second guy "What would you do if a bear suddenly were to appear?".

The second guy answers - "Well I would run like hell."
To which the first guy says - "You know you can't outrun a bear!"
And the second guy replies - "I don't have to - I just have to outrun you!"

Back when I was a veteran group rider we knew all the local problem dogs, where they lived, and how far they would chase you. If that days ride took us past one of the scruffy demons we would silently cruise to the front of the group as we approached it's house. Suddenly we'd give a hoot and hollar to wake him up and sprint for all we were worth, leaving it to our surpised compratriots to deal with the aftermath! :roflmao:

My experience of being bitten when riding is contrary to all the knowledgeable answers above.
The German Shepherd ran through an unlatched screen door and made a beeline for me across the street. I got off the bike, speaking soothingly to the dog, and endeavored to keep the bike between me and him.

You know, dogs are like, blindingly fast? He ran around the bike like a heat-seeking missile and nailed me on the left calf, then got called off by his owner.

It may not have been helpful to the NEXT cyclist the dog chased, but if I'd peddled my ass off, I'd have avoided being bitten. Sometimes that "higher purpose" thing is a bit overrated.

This thread has given me a few laughs, anyway. I'll repeat what I said before, though: Ammonia and/or kicking the dog are going to get you seriously hurt or killed. There's not a kung-fu master in the world that can stand up to a serious dog. If you can sprint like a freak, you may be able to outrun the average overweight housedog, or at least wear him out. There is absolutely no way any of us can react quickly enough or sprint fast enough to escape a high drive aggressive German Shepherd, Doberman, or Malinois; most likely scenario is you won't even see the dog until it's about to take you down. The only way to deal with one of these dogs is serious pepper spray, and even at that you're probably going to get hurt. If you think you have the slightest chance of encountering a truly dangerous dog, don't mess around; it realistically could cost you your life. I'd also reccomend a .45acp to finish the job, but if you want to leave the beast alive for the next unsuspecting guy, well, that's your choice...

I'd also recommend a .45acp to finish the job

Do you recommend "two in the hat" or "center mass" for the irresponsible owner?

You know the old joke about 2 walkers in the woods and the bear? The first guy asks the second guy "What would you do if a bear suddenly were to appear?".

The second guy answers - "Well I would run like hell."
To which the first guy says - "You know you can't outrun a bear!"
And the second guy replies - "I don't have to - I just have to outrun you!"

Back when I was a veteran group rider we knew all the local problem dogs, where they lived, and how far they would chase you. If that days ride took us past one of the scruffy demons we would silently cruise to the front of the group as we approached it's house. Suddenly we'd give a hoot and hollar to wake him up and sprint for all we were worth, leaving it to our surpised compratriots to deal with the aftermath!
Lol thats just so wrong

I find speaking to the dog works wonders in most cases. And not every chser is chaseing you out of agresion or hunting instinct. Theres many dogs that break loose from their chains or find a way out of their fenced yards here. The majority of them take to keeping pace with me safly to the side. Some people run with their dogs unleased some ride with them the same way. These dogs are obviously no threat and know the rules their owners tought them. Some dogs just run out great you and run back or will wait to be petted. Theres 1 big old mastif here thats like that. He will not leave people alone on bikes till they pet him. Every one knows the big goof bal and stops to play with him a bit. Ive only have one agro dog chase me ever in all my years. I was riding a bmx with the old rat trap pedals. He got a nice gash on his head from the spikes on the things. He never chased me again and would turn tail running and yelping at the site of a bike or motor cycle.

I found this letter on a bulletin board in the local park. That it has not been removed by a pro-dog person is somewhat amazing. I was tempeted to say something like " It is legal to run over a dog not on leash" but thought better of it. I can see some dog person getting bikes banned from the park. Over the past 5 years the city has allocated several fenced in areas for the exclusive use as "off leash areas". While this dog was on a leash, the law is that is must be no more than 3 feet long. I frequently encounter dogs that are off leash in the non off leash areas. Many of my mountain bikers in the park are probably pretty mean about dogs. While I hate the poor dog owner behavior, I try to moderate my comments to them.
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Dog Attack

September 11, 2005


Dear Dog Walkers:

Last week I was biking home from work along the parameter of Frick Park, A dog walker approached me, the Schnauzer snarling and barking. I allowed as much room as possible for them to pass and the walker pulled the dog in on its retractable leash. As soon as I passed them, the dog walker released the retractable leash and the dog was allowed to attack me on my bike from behind.

Once I rapidly biked out of reach, unharmed, I turned and reprimanded the dog over my shoulder. The dog walker responded with a threatening comment directed to me. I was shocked and frightened. Too much so to think of getting the man's namr, etc...

I consulted Animal Control and the Police, explaining the event. I was told that if I feel threatened I have the right to protect myself. I now carry pepper spray, and have been told that I have the right to use it if I feel threatened. (even on a "leashed" dog).

I have owned dogs and have lived in the East End most of my life. Gas is expensive, and the weather is good so I am on my bike a lot. Please control your dogs. Even a very friendly dog’s nicest greeting might not br received positively. Protect your dog and please respect others rights.

Thank you

---------Hand written comments---------
Questions:
1) Where were you injured
2) What did the owner say?

Comments:
-Learn how to SPELL!
-USING PEPPER SPRAY IS NOT A GOOD IDEA--USING WATER IS BETTER,-- CARRY A WATER BOTTLE YOU NEVERY KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU RESORT TO VIOLENCE

MAULING-INDICATES THAT THE DOG WOUNDED YOU IN SOME MANNER.

SHAME ON THOSE WHO BELITTLE A LIGITAMATE COMPLAINT.

Back in the day...
When we were on training rides...we used to carry Chocolat Exlax. We'd throw it on the ground and most dogs would stop to eat it up. I've always wondered what happened next.
<I don't know you guys, I've never heard of this list and I will deny ever posting this>

I had my bike stolen years ago so I had to walk 3+ miles to work for a while while I got my back-up bike in shape. This dog I used to able to ride past was now a serious problem. Well, wouldn't you know it, the day I saw no way around him I hitch-hiked the last 500-1000m to work (trust me there was no way around, steep uphill, etc) and the driver's wife turned out to be a local bigwig in dog control. I swear that starting the very next day the dog was restrained thereafter. So, get in touch with whatever local agency is in charge of enforcing leash laws to get some results. Good luck!

I would report any bite. I think after 2 attacks they'll take the dog. But if no one reports them nothing gets done.

Riding with my 5 yo daughter behind me a month ago. Cue sheet said watch out for dogs at the turn. Daughter reminded me that even if it is a bad dog, you're not supposed to kill it, just tell it "No!" What a heart of gold.

Back in the day...
When we were on training rides...we used to carry Chocolat Exlax. We'd throw it on the ground and most dogs would stop to eat it up. I've always wondered what happened next.
<I don't know you guys, I've never heard of this list and I will deny ever posting this>

Isn't chocolate poison to canines (http://vetmedicine.about.com/cs/nutritiondogs/a/chocolatetoxici.htm)?

Isn't chocolate poison to canines (http://vetmedicine.about.com/cs/nutritiondogs/a/chocolatetoxici.htm)?
So be it.

(Don't get me wrong...I love dogs yadda, yadda, yadda)

Thanks for all the replies! Looks like pepper spray is the answer. Telling a dog "NO" is not something I intend to do when the thing is making a beeline for me, barking and snarling. Although I am a gun owner, I really don't care to have a felony conviction for shooting in a residential area. Pedaling real fast to escape is fine when I am on a bike, does not work so well when I am running.

Also, make sure that the pepper spray is visible. I want dog owners to know I have it. If more cyclists visibly carried pepper spray, it might remind the owners that it's in their dogs' interest not to mess with cyclists (or anyone else, for that matter).

Where is your location? in hawaii its the againts the law to let an unleashed dog or untrained dog loose

I live in PA. It's illegal here as well to let dogs run loose, but it is seldom if ever enforced. I live in a small town that has become overdeveloped in recent years, and the small-town "bubba" local government is simply not equipped to handle the demands of an expanding community.

Being friendly or saying "no" loudly seems to work pretty well. The real nasty guys will indeed attack very quickly. Fortunately they are rare. I would think that anything past simply a neutral water bottle squirt would need to be backed up if necessary. I suspect if one is really attacked then one needs to be prepared to kill the dog with one's bare hands. They are fairly vicious.

Animal control usually does well most places.

If attacked, go to the emergency room. Get police involved to do rabies follow up. Then sue. Almost no owner will continue to let a problem dog run once they end up in court. A bit of bother, but might save a life.

I don't carry mace. I maced a dog that bit the toe of my shoe once, then the owner came for me (steep grade up) and maced him, too. Didn't like that. The owners are a bigger problem indeed. So I don't carry anything. If I did, it would be my Sig .380 as a last resort. Might not actually be a bad idea around here - except for the weight penalty!

they dont really inforce the rules even in hawaii

ok its illegal in some states beacause I only heard it in hawaii
Sorry :D

A large dog that truly is meaning to attack you typically is not going to make alot of noise as it is closing in on you. I have found that if they are barking and letting you know they are there, they generally don't mean alot of harm. I have found that stopping and either going on the offensive or talking soothingly to the dog will calm them down. Not being the fastest sprinter, I will not attempt to outrun them unless i have a big head start, plus it is a dogs natural inclination to chase. By stopping you often confuse it and if the dog really is going to attack, I rather not be on my bike.

Anyone tried jabbing a dog with 100,000 volts?

I was talking to my local letter carrier, who is also a cyclist, about dogs awhile back.

He's in his mid-sixties and said that he's never seen Halt! not work on any dog.

He does nearly all of his cycling late at night/wee hours of the morning and carries a .38 in a jersey pocket, but has only had to use it once and that was on two-legged varmints, a long time ago.

A suggestion he made was carrying a can of kills on contact wasp & hornet spray with a 20 foot range, but those are typically bigger than either of us want to carry on a bicycle.

He also said that in this area, mostly rural, he doubted that I would need to carry anything at all and so far he's been right.

One of the nice things about Florida is that if a dog bites someone and they decide to sue, the dogs owner is legally and financially screwed. And their insurance company is going to make keeping Fifi prohibitively expensive. One bite and the dog is vicious.