Rides and Races - DC Pirates' Pillages and Plunders

He may be an idiot, but what he told Lebowitz was absolutely correct.
He's the **** and I respect his advice even though I won't be following it and will torque my track nutz

It appears my 42T middle gear is lined up with my 16T fixed gear. I also have 2 spacers on the drive side of the hub so I should be cool

youre advising someone to use a singulator on a fixed gear?

Chain tensioner for fixed gear

Singulator for single speed

Red–You bring up lots of very good points, but the question is what do we do about it? If we want more number to show up to CM, then I think we need to reach out and try to bridge the groups.

I have have been told all the story about why this group or that group stopped coming. It has been a long time, some of that stuff has to be forgotten about.


I don't think the numbers are the issue, there have been plenty of people at the last few rides. I think it's more a question of what we(CM, not the Pirates), are trying to prove. It's either that we are traffic and deserve respect on the road, or that we don't respect motorists rights to be on the roads and therefore don't deserve any respect. I think what Red was trying to say, and definitely what I'm trying to say is this, CM is a awesome great opportunity for us to make a statement aand, since a lot of the Pirates show up at CM perhaps we should try to help guide it,ie: keep the group together, suggest some alternatives to some of the things that happen that portray us, and ultimatley everyone on a bike, poorly. I'm not saying we should be the CM police or that this should be a rule oriented thing, but at some point we have to question the effectiveness of what we are doing. Sorry to ramble on, it's early. -peace

PS: Booger, I hope yer feeling better. Any news about replacing your bike?

congrats on the new rig lebowitz.

dsusan, we'll have to agree to disagree on conversions. suffice to say that a track frame is safer, and better designed for its purpose. that being said, horizontal dropouts have worked fine for many years for a lot of riders, myself included. a surly tuggnut (http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=18333&subcategory_ID=5132) is a measure of insurance against the chain slipping forward, plus in can open beers.

nobody's an idiot. let's not take comments from the canadian peanut gallery too seriously.

a surly singleator (http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/RD707Y01-Surly+Singleator.aspx) on a fixed gear bike will kill you.

This Conversion talk has become completely ridiculuos. There is nothing wrong with converting a bicycle with forward facing horizontal droupouts to fixed, thousands have done it and will continue to do it with no consequence. If you're dumb enough to not tighten down your axle nuts then perhaps a chain tensioner like the Surly Tugnut might help you, but you don't really deserve to be helped. The Surly singulator will do absolutely nothing for a fixed gear, they are made for single speed freewheel conversions on bikes that DO NOT HAVE HORIZONTAL DROPOUTS. On a bike with horizontal dropouts you don't need a chain tensioner because that's what the dropouts are for. Think of all the three speed Raleighs without deraileurs that were properly tensioned just by sliding the wheel back in the dropouts! Amazing technology really.

Now for a quick lesson in the physics of fixed gear bikes-
When you pedal forward the chain pulls the rear cog forward- just like on any bike.
When you skid stop a fixie, you stop the chain neither pulling forward or backward, on the other hand the wheel stops and friction with the ground pulls the rear wheel backward, while momentum carries the rest of the bike forward.
If you happen to be superman and have the ability to pedal backwards while riding forwards then perhaps there is some pull on the rear cog in the forward direction but it is still no greater than when you pedal forwards.

The fear with forward facing dropouts is that you can pull the wheel out if you do not properly tension your axle nuts. This can happen on any bike with forward facing dropouts, including the original incarnation of your 70's road bike frame. In addition it can also happen on a bike with track ends (rear facing dropouts) Although the wheel will not come out, the axle can shift and you will throw your chain. The lesson here is to always properly tighten your axle nuts, and if you can't remember to do that then you shouldn't be building your own bike.

Lebowitz- You have your frame. You have your wheels. Get a stem and a brake and a knowledgeable person to watch over you while you put it together and your bike is done.
There is far too much riding to be done to sit around and argue whether or not it will work.

PS: Booger, I hope yer feeling better. Any news about replacing your bike?

Same old insurance company crap. They told me they would get back to me in 2 biz days. Its been 1.5. We will see.

No messengers, few communters, no DCstreets, no chain reaction, no WABA, almost no bike shop employees.

Oddly enough, I talked with a messenger about CM the afternoon of CM. He said that DC messengers have been avoiding CM for the past several years because they have "certain privileges," with the cops, basically allowing them to do whatever crazy riding they need to in order to make deliveries. Sounds like most messengers don't want to endanger that by participating in something that can be as confrontational as it was on Friday night.

And not to be pessimistic, but part of the allure of CM for some people seems to be the idea that we ride without rules; when we try to manage, those people seem to think we're jerks.

This Wednesday
Fancy Beer Places Pillage
7pm, 14th and K
attendance mandatory, squareness optional

My little infectious friends came back (whee - another trip to the doctor where he fished around in my leg again with a scalpel). No pillage for me. Aaarrrrgh!

gross. but good to take care of that **** before it lays any more eggs. heal fast deuce.

And not to be pessimistic, but part of the allure of CM for some people seems to be the idea that we ride without rules; when we try to manage, those people seem to think we're jerks.

This is a very true statement. Like when you tell somebody they have to watch out for other people and they get pissed at you and head off perhaps?...

I may be new to the area, most of you haven't met me, and I have only done one CM here, but I agree that there needs to be a little bit more planning. Maybe somebody (more preferably a group) - be it a pirate or not - should think up some sort of route, round up some friends to take the lead and the rear, and tell the other bikers that show up how its going to run. If they think whoever does this is being a jerk, explain to them its for both safety and to help get a better point across. Just because something is organized, doesn't mean that it can't be fun.

i dont know what exactly you're talking about, but i hope you heal up soon. good luck.

Lieb: where is the lock ring? I don't see it! good score! PM me when you want to respace the rear wheel. I should have a bunch of time after 8 tonight . btw; what brand is the 17 cog? wanna swap?

Leibowitz...

um, that suzue hub has no lockring.

I have some stems.

TINK? I have your bars.

BTW. Does everyone know you can order things from chain reaction for less than regular stores.

anything from QBP or J&B (everything really).

Oh, yeah and they have some hot cranks down there, ISIS splines ritchie road...

BOOGER.
I don't think anyone left, I think they just didn't come in the past.
THere isn't any story or old wounds, just spotty recruitment.
CM has traditionally been an activist thing and not really a bike thing. Getting the serious riders involved is a newish thing.
Some groups won't get involved because it is too radical and it undermines their agenda.
Other groups are too kool for school.
But if we bring other groups to the fore we might have a chance. We have to give respect, acknowledge their welcome and probably change the tone a little bit. that is always with liberal politics, it doesn't want to constrain and then ends up with no message control.
But if we have another pepper spray kid, we are ****ed.
If anything like that ever happens again I will personally break legs.
That is why the cops give us heat.

dcstreets, chainreaction, messengers, commuters. etc.

Lets work on making it a parade...

BTW nu2u on 14th street has some nice stolen bikes.
Anyone missing anything?

MY good friends blue cannondale road bike with yellow taped drop bars and california glitter stickers got stolen from A-M on Friday night. She road it across the country a few years back and so it has a little sentimental value.

If anyone sees anything, let me know?

Thanks, -Ben

if he doesn't have a lock ring, i have one floating around my apartment. you guys can PM me if you need to pick it up, we can set up a time.

Stop worrying about chainline when a wheels lack lockrings and when there is all of this nuttyness about singulators.
Bikes are simple but people get confused by details. why not ask the people who know. this scattergun strategy toward getting answers is really getting dangerous.
Call brian at citybikes if you don't know.
or ask a someone with experience (me), baldy and joel also have the practical experience to know that opinions do not matter in this regard.

Noah, who did you speak too? A lot of messengers are full of ****, but others might have useful things to say. They do not have any kind of de facto amnesty with cops to lose.

Spud, your next to last posting confused me. Can you clarify? It seemed that it could be taken wrong.

And not to be pessimistic, but part of the allure of CM for some people seems to be the idea that we ride without rules; when we try to manage, those people seem to think we're jerks.

All true. I liked the no rules part at first, but I think that it can get out of hand and all that. F CM. It is just a name. I am talking more from a solidarity standpoint than anything. I like taking the streets back. I like the parade of bikes. I don't care what its called and who runs it. If people want to ride with no rules let them. We don't have to ride with them. The "mass" of DC riders and not so down with the "no plan, no rules thing" (as far as I can tell, i can't talk for all people).

Let CM (first friday) die if we want. We can let the no rule people have that ride. We can ride that if we want also. If we could get more people to ride safe and by rules on a different day then I am all for it. We could use that ride for a lot more the just taking the streets back. Only a group can provide political presser to effect change. I don't think the "old CM" does that.

apparently this thread has devolved into all mechanics, but i have a relevant question and don't feel like leafing through the past 100 pages of this thread.

does anyone gather for group rides a la the first page on this thread? that **** looks ****ing incredible.

i haven't been living here that long. i always see people hanging out in Dupont Circle after work, but all the bad poetry and failure to hold a steady bongo rhythm drive me away. Plus i'm detecting a high level of I-ride-an-FG-with-Pista-bars-while-listening-to-broken-social-scene-thus-I-am-hipper-than-everyone tone to this thread, but I hope my Peugeot [with it's 18 gears of pure unmitigated awesomeness and faint techno music that follows it around everywhere] and I are still welcome here.

my point is I just want to ride in a herd of people through downtown DC. does anyone still arrange this?

my point is I just want to ride in a herd of people through downtown DC. does anyone still arrange this?

Yes, we still ride all the time. next ride:

This Wednesday
Fancy Beer Places Pillage
7pm, 14th and K

i'm detecting a high level of I-ride-an-FG-with-Pista-bars-while-listening-to-broken-social-scene-thus-I-am-hipper-than-everyone tone to this thread, but I hope my Peugeot [with it's 18 gears of pure unmitigated awesomeness and faint techno music that follows it around everywhere] and I are still welcome here.

First, I don't think any of us it that cool. Lots of different people ride with us. Fixed and Gears. Some drink, some don't. Some like to do lots of miles, some are lazy. We are very relaxed about things and we just try to "keep it awesome". It would be cool if you came out.

I am so down with the last few posts.

Lets do our own bike parade, lets manage CM, b/c we will be grouped with them either way.

Every friday? What about a weekday? Lets do an all inclusive, law abiding ride. We can reach out to cops, WABA, dcstreets, messengers and most importantly, commuters.

Lets get everyone involved, Sun Tzu said the one with biggest coalition wins. Lets get us all in together.
No racing, hotdogging, blinging, all in, All In, ALL IN!

We cannot be an institution as long as we are simply a plank on the anarchist anti-agenda.
As Charles II was fond of pointing out, "It's fun to oppose things, but eventually you have to grow up and take a position FOR something".

Lets be pro-bikes, pro cyclists, pro DC.

Everything else is secondary and if contradictory , must be abandonded.




calendar.
mon is messenger council meeting, tue is empty, wed is messengers, thursday is late night at citybikes, friday is CM sometimes, saturday is fields day, sun is cheese ride,

any other conflicts?

I've only heard a little about the CM debate so bear (sp?) with me ...

PPTC Pacelines for the most part get plenty of respect on the road. Many times we're even waved by at intersections by oncoming traffic where we don't have right of way. Maybe its because a line of 8 cyclists looks like it belongs on the road instead of the sidewalk.

No way would CM ever approach a paceline, but presenting a presence of belonging on the road instead of forcilbly taking it might be a good way to go.

Back end riders have signs alot like Mike's, which spread the message instead of having drivers make up their own mind about the 40 bikes blocking their way home. Front end riders set the pace and the route. Maybe we could stop at major intersections; taking it makes us look like jerks to cars and stopping gives us a good chance to pack up again, hand out neon colored paper with cyclist's rights on them, "did you know" points, talk to people on the sidewalk, maybe even just cheer "more bikes less cars" all together. Likewise on a 3 lane street, maybe we should only take 2, drivers can pass but will probably be more careful since we're not being jerks taking the whole thing. People might be more inclined to listen when a purpose is stated and its not just a clump of riders creating dangerous situations for everyone...

At the start maybe we should let some expectations be known ... "we'll stop at so and so," "we'll stay together," "please don't stray," "here's some papers to hand out," etc ... and "if you don't feel like you want to participate, thanks for coming down, then we'll be doing an alleycat you might like instead ..." that sort of thing. If CM is about getting a message across then its more about the message than the ride. I guess CM needs to figure out if its a message or just a "fun" ride. Everyone at CM who wants to spread the message should feel like a volunteer.

Red - I talked to a guy named Max: Straw hat, don't remember the bag, but he had flat bars and a Level hub. Tattoos on the arms (I know, like half of the under-30 folk in DC). I probably should have pointed out that it's only one man's story.

+1 to Booger and ryand - Besides, sounds like during the cold months we are CM, because no one else shows up. *shrug* Works for me. Of course, if we take it upon ourselves to plan ahead of time, we actually have to put work into it: Seeing as how pillaging planning is often hazy at best (and that's just the way I like it!), I don't know how much of that extra work we want to take on.
Be we Pirates or be we traffic flaggers? Yarrr! *grin*

wnatw - If you drop the attitude, you're more than welcome to come riding with us. Some of us are fixed, some free, some gears. Nobody's brought bongo on a pillage yet, but I'm sure it could be arranged.

rpc - You're awesome. All good suggestions. Who's got a copy account?

Whoa there, no attitude intended. I've just had some run-ins with people who were a bit too gung-ho on FG down in Richmond. I'm sure you're all very nice.

Thanks for the info re: this wednesday, will try hard to come out.

Could the CM talk please be in a separate thread. This is the "DC Pirates' Pillages and Plunders" thread.

RpC-all right!

wnatw, yeah we know the richmond kids and I am familiar with the attitude.
It is very hard to overcome the preppy attitude down there, it gets underneath everything you do.
I want to get rid of that attitude, it is simply hierarchy and conspicious consumption. Which is what we are supposed to be fighting not encouraging.

The guy who gets a bling bike at 22 will go for the bling car a decade later. The point is to understand what is important about the bike and in life.

this is a cm discussion among the pirate community, if it is a cm thread we will be having the discussion with the folks that we are trying to manage.

For the same reason that mechanical discussions fall into this thread. It is among a community.
The amount of conversation on this topic among those in this room shows that it is appropriate.

Max, by the way is absolutely the best person to talk with. He has respect as a messenger and the political interest in CM.
He is also going to be one of the most friendly people you will deal with.

Max and Dan G. are two of the three masterminds behind the co-op bike shop.

well, "preppy" isn't really the word i'd use, but you're onto something. i grew up there, now all I see are second-rate hipsters running around on FGs all through the Fan acting like they thought of it themselves.

and pardon my n00bishness, but what is "CM"

and pardon my n00bishness, but what is "CM"
CM stands for Critical Mass (e.g. http://cm-dc.mahost.org/ ), which in my opinion has nothing to do with the DC Pirates.

Cool, thanks. I assume the Pirates have a site as well then?

Cool, thanks. I assume the Pirates have a site as well then?

you're lookin at it

Cool, thanks. I assume the Pirates have a site as well then?
As dirtyphotons mentioned, this thread and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dcpirates/

(e.g. http://cm-dc.mahost.org/ ), which in my opinion has nothing to do with the DC Pirates.

What Up Rincewind8? Its been too long.

Also, I think a agree with Ben. This discussion was started by Pirates. Many pirates ride CM.

This thread is about our rides. CM is a ride that we do. What do others think? Should we move this discussion?

So this Wednesday we will pillage? Maybe I will actually get out and ride, I mean drink :) Rugby has been consuming my life, which is good, but its not Piratical. See you all soon. Sounds like I didn't miss to much at CM on Friday (I was in Norfolk), but thanks Spud for giving me a shout.

WNATW, we are way relaxed. Once in a while we get worked up on line and that brings up some interesting discussion. Otherwise, we ride, eat, drink (whatever you want) act silly, fix each other's bikes, trade spare parts.... no elistist me me me attitude. But I do listen to the "me first and the gimme gimme's" a LOT!

Example: last Sunday, about 10 of us went to the movies ! Pirates 2 :)
Once in a while there is Pizza night!

Come out Wednesday, we'll show you who we are, ride whatever you like, no need to impress

speaking of a website, if you guys really wanted, i could set you up with a design and host a site for you. i have nothing that im working on in my spare time other than riding my bike, so that sounds like a fun rainy day project for me. i'll meet up with you guys tomorrow for my fancy root beer ride, if you are interested we can talk about it. if you don't want a dc pirates site, i can help anybody put together a personal site of their own as well.

The lockring is new and in a bag, I just didn't take a picture. There is no 17T cog , sorry, guess the seller forgot it. I want to respace the rear wheel tonight if possible, I'll send you a PM with my address and cell in case you want to come over and have some beer/sparks.

Sorry for hosing the board with mechanics... thanks all for the help.

Lieb: where is the lock ring? I don't see it! good score! PM me when you want to respace the rear wheel. I should have a bunch of time after 8 tonight . btw; what brand is the 17 cog? wanna swap?

A pirate website would be an isolated backwater, total control but sterile.

We are discussing CM among pirates. I am not interested in having a CM discusion among the activist kids on the CM website. They have no message control, no interest in DC except as a staging ground for their protests and insufficient experience with bikes or riding.

If CM is left up to them is will end in another street fight and then die when they go back to school in August. A fun protest but not a community. They are slumming here, dreaming of righteous riots. But like Jello says "tommorow you're homeless/ tonight it's a blast".

Does anyone remember the pepper spray incident?

Pirates on the other hand have a pretty good interest in the politics of riding in DC as well as all the other characteristics. We, with the other amateur riding clubs, messengers, WABA and commuters have the best chance to keep empowering DC cyclists.

The CCT is the product of lobbying and social pressure, so are bikes on metro , bike lanes, lockup bollards, bike rooms in apartments, and bike racks on buses.

Lets keep on going...

The lockring is new and in a bag, I just didn't take a picture. There is no 17T cog , sorry, guess the seller forgot it. I want to respace the rear wheel tonight if possible, I'll send you a PM with my address and cell in case you want to come over and have some beer/sparks.

Sorry for hosing the board with mechanics... thanks all for the help.

I would go back for that lock ring, it was you deal, and pirates do not get welsh on deals (no thunderdome reference please).

The board is for lots of different stuff, I see no issue with asking "fix my bike " questions.

I thought we were here to discuss things of interest to the Pirates as a whole, not just pillages. Either way, I'm done with CM considering the attitude surrounding it, not here, just in general. If anyone wants to work on a different type of ride I'm all ears. But here's the thing, DC CM has been, in my experience, without a lot of problems with the cops. But at any time during the few hours we ride we are one confrontation away from the problems that NYC, and Chicago have now. I don't want to be involved in that crap, it's just counter productive. I just want to ride with my friends. -Cheers

I thought we were here to discuss things of interest to the Pirates as a whole, not just pillages. Either way, I'm done with CM considering the attitude surrounding it, not here, just in general. If anyone wants to work on a different type of ride I'm all ears. But here's the thing, DC CM has been, in my experience, without a lot of problems with the cops. But at any time during the few hours we ride we are one confrontation away from the problems that NYC, and Chicago have now. I don't want to be involved in that crap, it's just counter productive. I just want to ride with my friends. -Cheers
Don't get me wrong. I don't mind any discussions on this thread. I just hope the pirates won't be associated with CM, because CM is so aggressive, confrontational and in my opinion completely counter-productive to it's original motive. A peaceful, non-confrontational ride in a big group, that stays within the traffic laws would help so much more. Maybe even a police escort that blocks intersections as the group come through could be arranged (I heard DC Police is very good a t that...), who knows. I would participate in such an event at any time.
I just don't think CM does any good to the cycling community and it has gone way to far to ever get a good image again.
However, that is just my personal opinion.

BTW, save the date!

Big ****ing party at my house. This Saturday, the 15th.

Riding encouraged, bring friends.

party starts at 830, barbecue before hand, 3333 18th st. NW in Mount Pleasant. (near Hellers bakery)

intersection of 18th & Monroe

next to 18th & Park.

202-491-4707

(Will have bike stuff to sell and give away).

Bring what you'd like, we will have keg of the cheap stuff.

protests dont work...ever, a coordinated, professional presentation of evidence and arguments to those people with influence, is always going to be more successful. Critical Mass as a protest, is totally a failure

as a chance to blast around and **** around with traffic

...ITS AWESOME

Rincewind8: it has gone way to far to ever get a good image again.


again, please humor me folks, i'm new here. I read these ominous references to a street fight, pepper spray, etc.

seriously, a street fight between bicycle gangs? hilarious AND badass at the same time. please fill me in.

Peter,
Craig was clearly gypped out of that cog by that sneaky indian giver, but I guess that's what happens when greek meets greek.

are there any allycats etc coming up in the area?

Peter,
Craig was clearly gypped out of that cog by that sneaky indian giver, he ought to give him a little dago justice or he could wus out and just call a spade a spade but I guess that's what happens when greek meets greek.

wow, three racial slurs in one sentence.

EDIT: pardon me, four

protests dont work...ever, a coordinated, professional presentation of evidence and arguments to those people with influence, is always going to be more successful. Critical Mass as a protest, is totally a failure

as a chance to blast around and **** around with traffic

...ITS AWESOME

don't forget meeting chicks on bikes.