Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Bikes By George -- Kiddies Beware

So way back when, years and years ago, before they invented daylight savings time... okay it was about this time a year ago... I smashed up my 10-speed and needed a bike to get back to work, quick. I had heard about fixies and thought they must be the bee's pajamas, but I knew next to nothing about bikes (not even how to change a tire !) and I didn't have a lot of dough to throw around.

I had read somewhere (possibly the archives here) that Bikes by George, this illigitimate shop on 12th in the E. Village, would build me a fixie for cheap. I went in and talked to George. He had a steel frame that was roughly my size lying around. He said he could build me a fixie for $250. I balked a little bit, tried to talk him down, but I'm no good at that kind of thing. He said he could have it ready in a few days.

I came back to pick it up. Here's what he had built me. The wheels were $28 27-inch rims laced to cheapy (suzue basic or worse) hubs. The bottom bracket, seat, handlebars, brake, etc. were regs crappy Taiwanese parts.

But the real kicker, (aside from the rims that began denting after 2 weeks) were the COTTERED CRANKS! I wish I were making this up. I knew no better at the time, forked over the dough, and rolled home, thinking, 'gee, fixed gear sure is super.'

That weekend, as I was going down the W'burg bridge, the chain fell off. Whoopsy, I thought, wonder what could be wrong. Managed to manhandle the chain back on the chainring, couldn't figure it out, and rode gingerly to the party I was going to in Queens.

I brought it back to George, who took a look at it. Apparently, the pressure of resisting the pedals had softened the pins in the cottered cranks, causing the crankarms to wobble, creating enough slack for the chain to fall off. He hammered them in tighter (!) and told me I should be fine. I believed him.

Within about a mile the cranks loosened up again, of course. I brought it back to him when I had a chance. He b|tched me out a little bit ("I built three bikes like this last week, no one else has complained") but replaced the pins. That fix lasted a little longer, but in less than a week I brought it back.

He continued whining. He asked me how I had been braking. I said I had been resisting the pedals and using the handbrake. He said, "well, there's your problem. you can't put back-pressure on these cranks." Guh?! He told me to only use the brake. Super.

By that point, my bicycle had become such an integral part of my life that damage to my rig hurt me like a bodily injury. I was literally depressed that my cranks wobbled. So I put the POS in the closet and called up Tony (of course). Eventually I sold the sh|t-fixie on craigslist.

THEN

Last night I'm riding home from the opera (!) on 9th ave, and I see up in front of me, a kid on a fixie. I catch up to him, and although we're moving kind of fast, I notice the yellow Bikes-By-George sticker on the downtube, the trademark sh|tty bartape and too-long brake cable, 27" wheels and COTTERED CRANKS. I pull up next to him.

"Bikes by George?" I ask amiably.

"Yep," he says. "Is that?"

"No," I say, "but my first one was. How much did you pay, $250?"

"Yah, like $275"

Gah!

I feel like warning him or something, but he pulls away. I feel sorry for this guy, but what's he going to gain, other than regret, now that he's already bought the infernal machine? I pass him, he passes me, at 14th street we part ways.

Then, at the intersection of Hudson and Bleecker, I run into him again. We wait for the cars to pass, and roll through the red light. I ride ahead of him. At the intersection of 7th ave south, he pulls up alongside me, on my right. We're both going at a fair clip. He shouts at me. "What?" I say.

"I said, are you going straight?" meaning am I continuing on Bleecker.

"Yeah," I answer.

"I'm going left." With that he proceeds to SWERVE IN FRONT OF ME AT 15 MPH AND MAKE A HARD LEFT, FORCING ME TO SKID INTO AN INSTA-TURN TO AVOID BLIND-SIDING HIM IN THE MIDDLE OF SEVENTH AVENUE.

"Sorry," he calls out.

Moral of the story: only idiots buy fixies from Bikes By George.

Thanks for listening.

Haha, great story and good on you for posting your experience.

Man alive, Bikes by George sounds worse than applecart or cino666 on eBay, at least all those guys do is make suicide wheels, but at least the bikes are decent.

Well told, well told.

Back in the day, track bikes had cottered cranks. The bike sounds like ****e, but I can't see how cottered cranks would be the problem.

the problems isn't the parts, it's the bike. it is total crap to begin with. why didn't you get a part list before hand. this is like letting someone else buy your groceries for you, without them knowing what you want.

Learn: buy the right thing first. And I always recommend building it yourself. There are more than enough resources available to assist you in building your own bike. If you choose to think "I just wanted a bike fast" - well, one only needs to read your story. The only person who got what they wanted was no one. You got a schitty bike, the shop owner got an earful...well, maybe the other kid did, since he did hit his lefty. But what a wreckless prick.
I will add this to my "why never to BUY a conversion" file. As if the Applecart/Cino59 existances weren't enough...

I think it's a rite of passage most cyclists have to go through. Until you've bought yourself a worthless pile of sh1te you don't begin to appreciate the difference between good and bad components. Once done, it can only get better.

I used to live on the same block as George, he really has no idea what he's doing mechanically, and has been doing it for quite a while. Basically he just buys a bunch of bikes at a police auction, cleans them up a bit, and then sells them to clueless folks in the neighborhood. Funny thing is they aren't even cheap.

Back in the day, track bikes had cottered cranks. The bike sounds like ****e, but I can't see how cottered cranks would be the problem.

yeah, but track riding you don't need to decelerate/backpedal frequently...

I think it's a rite of passage.
stupidity should never be a rite of passage, especially when this forum provides more than enough info to get anyone started as properly as possible.

']stupidity should never be a rite of passage, especially when this forum provides more than enough info to get anyone started as properly as possible.

well, yes, and no, also. when i got my first fixie, all i wanted was a beater, and didn't care that the chainline was a bit off or that i had to learn how to build a wheel because i needed to spend 30 bucks on a new suzue basic and couldn't afford a good wheel, or that the thirty year old headset squeeked like a mother, that the saddle was a plastic POS off of an abandoned bike i scavengened. then i started loving riding it more and more and realized that i actually didn't want a POS, and that quality did matter to me--when i really thought i didn't care.

me pointsie is that for the casual beginner, it's easy to not care, not want to be all up on the products and know the ins and outs--"how much can it matter to my riding, anyway?" and it SUCKS that people are taking advantage of beginners by selling potentially unsafe bikes. but a potentially unsafe POS is not the same as a starter, needs-no-bling ride for somebody just looking to get into the thing, bum around town or campus or whatever, doesn't really love bikes but wants one...

...knows that fixies are damn cool...

etc.

and with that in mind--longer than it needed to be?--we should probably tar and feather people who sell unsafe bikes...

yes... we should probably riot.

for the casual beginner, it's easy to not care, not want to be all up on the products and know the ins and outs--"how much can it matter to my riding, anyway?"
And when they don't care enough to know how to properly operate their schitty bike, they will injure themselves or perhaps someone else. How easy it that not to care about? Additionally, know what you buy. Do a little research. BUILD IT YOURSELF. I find it funny to hear about how many people do not carry a spare tube. Guess what - you don't get mine. Walk. It really seems that most riders have this half-assed approach to cycling. By most, I mean out of all riders, not just people here. Have some self-respect. KNow what you own and the things it takes to make it function as you would want it to. But then again, I guess some people just have the leisure of being completely moronic.

If someone is going to be that stupid, there are no excuses and no empathy. read a book. research the internets. find a resource - just try.

Don't tell me about how your conversion fell apart in the middle of the street - you are just as repsonsible as the seller to make sure your schit works. Or least to know when to get it serviced.

boots - Glad you kept taking the POS bike back to the shop , but I would have left it after the first time and demanded my money back.
Live and learn.

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My first "good" bike had cottered cranks. A Gitane in 1970. I admit they were a pain in the ***, but they were kind of cool in their own way. They work fine if they are setup properly -- but if the pin works loose and gets deformed, it will never fit properly again and the cranks will never never stay tight. Hammering on the pins won't fix 'em -- that just makes the problem worse by driving the BB bearings into the race and pitting them too (brinelling). Need virgin pins and a pin press. Sounds like your boy George doesn't know or much care about what he's doing, sending folks out on the road that way. But it ain't the cottered cranks fault!

Yes. But that's assuming that people join cycling forums before they buy bikes
stupidity should never be a rite of passage, especially when this forum provides more than enough info to get anyone started as properly as possible.

whats a cottered crank? Does it have something to do with 'welcom home, cotter'?

Yes. But that's assuming that people join cycling forums before they buy bikes
it doesn't even need to be here, it can be any resource. A bike shop, or a book, or somewhere else. I know a lot of people that came here b/c they were researching the internet for info on track/fixed/singlespeed/whatever...Assume? No. Hope...

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My first "good" bike had cottered cranks. A Gitane in 1970. I admit they were a pain in the ***, but they were kind of cool in their own way. They work fine if they are setup properly -- but if the pin works loose and gets deformed, it will never fit properly again and the cranks will never never stay tight. Hammering on the pins won't fix 'em -- that just makes the problem worse by driving the BB bearings into the race and pitting them too (brinelling). Need virgin pins and a pin press. Sounds like your boy George doesn't know or much care about what he's doing, sending folks out on the road that way. But it ain't the cottered cranks fault!

there is always an unsavory person trying to make money in any business, sometimes its the only people you'll find.

I always say build it yourself. There's really no excuse since bikes are relatively easy to make and maintain, especially fixies. Cars have always confused the hell out of me so I'm probably that idiot that's paying to much for the work done to my car. I just don't have the time or desire to learn how a car works to fix it myself. But I picked up a bike repair manual when I was 14 and started making a bike that week.

Eventually I sold the sh|t-fixie on craigslist.
applecart or cino666 or boots. dont buy from them!

Cars have always confused the hell out of me so I'm probably that idiot that's paying to much for the work done to my car. I just don't have the time or desire to learn how a car works to fix it myself.

How many of you change the oil in your car yourself or assemble your own computers or build your own furniture or even know how to set the timer on your vcr?

People have different priorities and interest levels in what they do and how they live their lives, its easy to criticize others that are different than you, much harder to understand where they're coming from.

death to the infidels!

Eventually I sold the sh|t-fixie on craigslist.


True story:

I’m in my office counseling a young guy about threatening a young lady.... When he passes on the story about how he met a girl and fell in love and they dated for a (long) two weeks before he got some.. and he thought all was good.. And then he had this burning sensation. And he was mad… so he decided what for to go to her house and beat on her front door and tell her neighbors what had transpired and how wronged he was and.. all that seems right and good when you’re drunk and infected at 2am. (Side note, it was treatable with some antibiotics). So the police came and yada yada and I’m talking to him about NOT threatening people and why a condom is always a good idea. And he’s nodding his head like he gets it.

And then proceeds to tell me how he hooked up the night before with another “hot chick”, JUST AFTER GETTING OUT OF JAIL. So I ask him, if he had used a condom. He said.. “No, why do I worry? I’ve already got something. She should have had one.” So, yes, he missed the point. It would seem our story teller has missed the point as well..

The difference being, that the young man, after I got done reaming him for about 1 hour strait, left, in tears, on his way to the house of the girl he probably just infected, to tell her what she may now have. The punch line here: he had an angry father yelling at his front door that night. When he called me (instead of the police), I told him to answer the door and answer to his wrong doing.

I wonder if Boots would respond the same way George did if the buyer of his bike called to b!tch?

How many of you change the oil in your car yourself or assemble your own computers or build your own furniture or even know how to set the timer on your vcr?

People have different priorities and interest levels in what they do and how they live their lives, its easy to criticize others that are different than you, much harder to understand where they're coming from.
1. I do - I wanted to know how to be self-sufficient
2. I am a Systems Engineer, not by education, but by interest. I built my own first computer because I wanted to know.
3. My grandfather built his own house as a young boy because his father was killed. He and his five brothers all contributed to the effort - including all furniture.
4. My parents have terrible vision and I was responsible for setting the BETAMAX timer for the Bob Newhart show when I was younger.

I grew up in the shadow of a family that is very self-reliant, and I am proud of that. Also, I cannot understand how people can remain so oblivious to the things they have come to rely on. I may not know everything about the things I use, but I am at least willing to learn. It is not harder to understand ignorance, it is harder to tolerate the people that do not take an interest in the tools they use though.

How many of you change the oil in your car yourself or assemble your own computers or build your own furniture or even know how to set the timer on your vcr?

People have different priorities and interest levels in what they do and how they live their lives, its easy to criticize others that are different than you, much harder to understand where they're coming from.

death to the infidels!

Whats a VCR?

How many of you change the oil in your car yourself or assemble your own computers or build your own furniture or even know how to set the timer on your vcr?

People have different priorities and interest levels in what they do and how they live their lives, its easy to criticize others that are different than you, much harder to understand where they're coming from.

death to the infidels!


My point was that nowadays, cars are very complicated and require time and effort to understand how to work on them, unlike bikes. If a kid can pretty much assemble a bike, it shouldn't be too difficult for any grown person to learn to do. I'm not saying the must just why not? It takes very little effort and has many benefits.

Any hobby that I get into or think of getting into, I do massive amounts of research, especially if it involes more than a few bucks. It helps to understand it better and have a greater appreciation for it. I think people that do their own mechanic work understand their bikes a lot more and appreciate the quality of a fine ride more than others that doesn't. This isn't to say that if you don't work on your own bikes you don't truly appreciate it. You don't need to be a bike mechanic to love cycling just like you don't need to love cycling to be a bike mechanic. But when you understand something more deeply, you gain a greater level of understanding and respect for it.

I've always done my own mechanic work on my car, snowboard, rollerblade and for the most part, my bikes. I can and do make furniture and can build houses (it's my job) Its one of the great benefits of being human, opposable thumbs allow us to do these things, why not take advantage of it.

ping pong.

whats a cottered crank? Does it have something to do with 'welcom home, cotter'?

ummm...that would be: 'Welcome back, cotter.'

sorry, waaay past my time, I only see it on nick at nite or something. I didn't exist when it was still on.

im sure we have all owned our fair share of Turd "fixed gears".

cars, computers, woodworking, vcr's, tivos.

I think you guys may have missed my point, oh well.

I'm an electronics engineer myself so I agree with learning and do it yourselfing and being self-sufficient etc. but I try not to look down on non-technical (or people who don't share my views) types, there are lots of things I have no interest in learning more about, but that I use everyday. The world is a big place and I'm just quickly passing through.

i should say that i was COMPLETELY honest about what was wrong with my bike when I sold it, and sold it for a pittance. my craigslist post was about 500 words explaining why it wasn't a real fixie.

ok, so I do installations of HUGE audio/video/teleconfrencing systems, stadiums, theaters, office buildings and so on... today I was working in Georgetown University's new performing arts center. my task on this job has been sorting and soldering speaker wire, but today I was taken from that task to go and fix a goof up, some microphone plates (a plate mounted on the wall with around 20 microphone connections on it) were put in the wrong places. Simple fix, take a soldering iron, disconnect wires from incorrect panel, and solder them on the correct panel. Once I had taken the panel off the wall, and looked at the solder job that was done on them, my jaw nearly hit the floor. Quite possibly THE WORST soldering I have ever seen. Worst part, it was done by someone over twice my age with, presumably, much more experience than I have. And bear in mind, this is their job, the thing they do 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year. I had the desire to stab, but then I remembered, not everyone can do the things I do, nor do they have the interest to even try. Not everyone who works with wires has electronics tattoo's, like me......

the point of all this rambling? yeah, be frustrated with a lack of know-how, but don't hold it against people, I'm sure someone who takes their bike to a shop to have inner-tubes replaced, scoff's at your lack of knowledge in some field. Be humble my friend.

dang, you guys are a little too hard on boots. ain't nothing wrong with selling your trash as long as you're honest about it.

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I like your Big Muff Pi avatar.

We nicknamed my brother Big Muff in honor of that little box.

How many of you change the oil in your car yourself or assemble your own computers or build your own furniture or even know how to set the timer on your vcr?


I've always changed my own oil, its really simple to do: loosen bolt, wait, tighten bolt, loosen old filter, tighten new filter, fill up with new oil, properly dispose of used oil.

i've bought two computers that i didnt assemble myself: laptops.

i've built a couple tables, but i dont have much furniture.

i know how to, yes, but whats worth watching on tv, less worth recording from tv?

I like your Big Muff Pi avatar.

We nicknamed my brother Big Muff in honor of that little box.

Thanks:) Those things can make anyone sound good...even Mark Arm;)

"It is not harder to understand ignorance, it is harder to tolerate the people that do not take an interest in the tools they use though."

Perhaps you should guide yourself into being more accepting of other peoples choices/capabilities in life.

Thanks:) Those things can make anyone sound good...even Mark Arm;)

I thought it was a combo... ;)

ummm...that would be: 'Welcome back, cotter.'


Ummmm... that would be 'Welcome Back, Kotter

How many of you change the oil in your car yourself

Yup.



or assemble your own computers

Yup.



or build your own furniture

Nope.



or even know how to set the timer on your vcr?

Yup.

Ummmm... that would be 'Welcome Back, Kotter

I never heard of no "kotter pin."

my first 10-speed had cottered cranks (it was a mercier), and tubulars. so by the time i was 14 i knew enough not to mess around with an old cotter, but to get a new one instead; i was also pretty good with a needle and thread. or repacking a loose-ball bearing headset, which i even did on lsd once (it took a long time, but i got those bearings clean). looking back, i msu have been inspired by my dad, who could fix or build anything in the house; growing up, i just figured that was what you did. but i know that my experience was not universal, and maybe not even particularly common.

it seems like there is a simple lesson in the observation that 90% of the problems folks have with the fixed conversions are because either they, or the person who built their bike for them, are incompetent. but the human condition is probably too complex to learn much from simple lessons. and the complexity is a good thing. at this point in my life i am willing to exchange mechanical competence and general, all-around-the-house resourcefulness for whatever else those persons may have to offer. the world needs more faulkners and coltranes.

i'm going to go learn to build my own wheels. it's time, don't you think?

--->crunchy