Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - is a custom frame worth it?

i have had two fixed gear beaters, followed by an IRO. all were nice, but now im coming into a little money and wanted to know if its really worth getting a custom frame. does anyone out there really feel the difference in fit? is there anything that a custom frame can do that i cant do just by adjusting seat/stem/etc?

i think if a stock frame fits perfectly with stem, seatpost settings you shouldn't need to go custom unless you have the money. if you have the money, there is no reason not to do it. it's made for you with the details you want. personal, one of a kind.

This was discussed very recently: Custom? (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=136988)

Yes. You cannot adjust your seat-tube, headtube, etc. lengths and angles. A custom bike will allow you to build a bike with the exact geometry you want, although you better know what that is. You can also have the bike built with a combination of tube-sets, like 853 main triangle, cro-mo stays, carbon fork, or whatever combination you need for the weight and stiffness you want. Some people will say that it only makes sense for people with out of the ordinary proportions, but that is bull. It makes sense for anyone who wants to push as much performance as possible, or who wants a blingy bike with custom lugs and paint. Different builders speciallize in different things. Vanilla makes pretty bikes, Walker makes fast bikes, etc....

if you have the cash i say do it

im all about riding the hell out of whatever bike you have, but last year i had a custom frame built by a friend of mine after riding a converted touring frame for 2 years

the difference is quite noticable, even between my custom coast frame and the khs i ride...no matter how much i adjust and tweak the khs it is never quite as comfortable to ride as the ustom frame

is custom something you have to do?...no...but if you have the money and especially if you ride a lot it is definately something worth doing

no

What do you want? I had a set of criteria that I don't think any off-the-peg frame can accommodate: reasonably steep but comfortable angles, high bottom bracket, clearance for fenders or big fat tires, eyelets and braze-ons for fenders and racks, bottle bosses, 130mm rear spacing. I wanted a high quality fixed gear all-rounder and one that I might eventually outfit with an internally geared hub too. I wanted something that's as comfortable jamming through rush hour traffic as traversing a fire road on my way to camp.

There were a bunch of frames that did just about all these things. Usually it came down to the tall bottom bracket versus everything else. The tire clearance was a bit of an issue as well.

Anyhow, I could still build up a new conversion for quite a bit less than what I'm paying for my ANT. But I already have bikes that do all those things above, I want to simplify (this was motivated in part by the thought that I might have to move).

On top of all that, I'm just into the idea of owning a bike that was built for me and me alone. I'm the person who conceived of it and worked with an artisan to see it realized. I really don't think there's any difference between a quality mass produced frame and a custom frame if they have similar geometries. I mean the rest can be tweaked as you say.

Back in the day, if you wanted a decent bicycle you had to go custom or at least go with a small volume hand built frame. That's not true anymore. So how much is that sense of bike as functional art worth to you?

[ Jeff tells me after you start to ride it, it becomes just another bike. A bike you like to ride, but just another bike. I'm prepared for that. Right now I just want my damn bike. :) ]

http://www.grudge-match.com/Images/beuller.jpg If you have the means, I highly recommend it.

I'm no better than the next man (or woman) I want me a custom.

But the one nagging question, once you've dropped $2000 or whatever and waited a few months or a few years, you're not going to turn around and admit it wasn't worth it are you? Its a pretty common psychological effect, you make an investment and unless its absolutely clear its a dud you'll defend it. Stay true to your school or whatever. Why own up to a bad decision when you can just ride with the illusion..

So yeah, if there are any custom builders out there who want to prove me wrong, I'll happily do a double blind on some frame built for me...

Most of the custom builders now days are artists in my opinion. I think you are buying a piece of artwork when you get a custom lugged steel beauty with paint you picked out.

"Think of bicycles as rideable art that can change the world."

"Think of bicycles as rideable art that can change the world."

-that coming from the man with the heart chainring ;)

yeah i'd say go for it, if for nothing else, the sweet lugs, theyre the best. i doubt many people who do buy custom frames are actually unhappy with them, even after a decade. the psychological effect, if one exists, i think would be different, i think instead of thinking i spent so much money on this it has to be good, would be thats exactly what ive always wanted hell yeah its good: pride not denial.

ive worked on some formula racecars in college, we knew what we built wasnt the best out there, but it was the best we were able to do without millions in sponsorship money, a huge private machine shop, the greatest material stock, etc. etc. and while we wished we did have all that, we were very happy with what we built, those cars were ours and we designed most of it ourselves and modified (where allowed) the stock pieces we did have to use. we werent in denial that our cars werent the best, instead we had pride in what we accomplished. i think thats how most custom frame owners feel, and while most do not work on much of it themselves they do feel like they did put something into it.

and 2000 down sure beats 2000 down and years of monthly payments on a car or truck, but you do get to pick (from a dozen? woo hoo!) colors for that new hunk of steel and plastic sitting in your parking spot.

Judah wrote:" Vanilla makes pretty bikes, Walker makes fast bikes, etc...."

Is this true?are pretty and fast mutually exclusive?

-Sacha

Add another frame builder to the forums, the man who makes many a lustworthy bike, Sacha White. Welcome.

Personally, I'm just biding my time till I'm ready to plan a Vanilla.

I'll take pretty and fast please.

whoa...

Holy Moly...

I'll just say this: Sacha, please get your site updated with some new bike shots. I'd love to see what you've built lately and what's in the works.

Your future customer,

- eyefloater

baloney.

beat me on the streets or on the track with a custom bike and there's your answer. or don't. i bet i can beat you with a crap frame.

don't buy custom unless the performance (or comfort) value matters.

hope this doesn't come off as a pissy response.

Msngr - where you been?

pissy is good, it is honest.

full custom is really nice, but being a strong rider is worth A LOT more than exact frame dimensions.

Eyefloater "I'll just say this: Sacha, please get your site updated with some new bike shots. I'd love to see what you've built lately and what's in the works."

commuter 1,2+3 are new. Road 4 is new. Mtn #3 is new and super gay!Track 1+2 are the newest. I am hoping to get some cross bikes up there soon and an owners gallery too.

Thanks for prodding me though. I need it sometimes.

-Sacha

Judah wrote:" Vanilla makes pretty bikes, Walker makes fast bikes, etc...."

Is this true?are pretty and fast mutually exclusive?

-Sacha

whoa.
do you need a slave? I'll work for free.

']Msngr - where you been?

really busy with the breakup. what a pain!
i'll get to you with your stuff soon. i've got a custom frame in the package. ;)

whoa.
do you need a slave? I'll work for free.

I allready have a slave, but he might want a slave :)

Mtn #3 is new and super gay!

i hope you mean that in a good way, otherwise, you're utterly boring.

i'm under no illusions that a custom bike will make me a faster rider. cos it won't. and a don walker bike will still probably be kinda slow, if it's between my legs. whaddayagonnado.

Msngr's 'fire breathing horse' is a faster bike than any i own - but that might have something to do with it's cruel, cruel master.

i hope you mean that in a good way, otherwise, you're utterly boring.

Well... He built it, and he put it up n his website, so one might assume he's proud of it. Personally I'm not so into the unicorn detail, but that's just me.

I have to say though, those bikes are ALL beautiful. A couple of them make me want to cty tears of joy. I haven't had time to drool over all of them, but I LOVE commuter #2. If I had a bike like that I would never get off it.

I love all my bikes, no matter how crappy they may seem in comparison to some of the the high zoot stuff others have, but looking at a bike like that, or an ANT or a few of the other customs I've seen. If I had the money I wouldn't be on here asking the unwashed masses if it's worth it. I'd be picking out shoes to match my new frame.How's that for gay (in a good way) ;)

i hope you mean that in a good way, otherwise, you're utterly boring.

Bike in question:
http://www.vanillabicycles.com/bikes/mountain/bike_c/lrg/5.jpg

I'm pretty sure "super gay!" is an appropriate descriptor in this case. I would have also accepted, "Likes to gorf the hog." Carry on.

- eyefloater

I think a custom frame is worth it for a lot of reasons. I believe you have to look at it as a work of art too. As an analogy, I build guitars. Sure most people can get by perfectly with a Martin, Taylor or even cheaper guitars. But the folks who buy guitars from me want a one of a kind work of art as well as a top quality instrument and that’s what that they get. They just like knowing that one dude built every aspect of this instrument in a little one room shop. Furthermore if anything ever goes wrong with it they are taken care of immediately and with great attention. I see buying a frame in a similar fashion. Probably 95% of the people out there don’t need custom as far as fit and ride quality go but there is a lot of niceness in owning a personalized one of a kind ride imho.

My .02: Have good reasons well before you buy. I have a custom steel touring frame, and justified the expense in that I can now take monstrous 3-4 month vacations and pay for exactly groceries for the rest of my life. I commute about ~90 miles/week and own no car. I plan on living in bike-friendly cities for at least the next seven or eight years.

And while your or anyone's motivations and justifications for dropping 2-3K on a custom machine will be totally different, just make sure you have em.


And try and stay as local as humanly possible. Don't let it stand in the way of getting anything specific or whatnot (Vanilla, drool), but having my builder live a couple miles east has been an amazing experience over the years. Nothing like drinking a Dos Equis with yr soon-to-be new baby all rigged up and scorched....


Guh...

i knew when i signed on for a custom bike i was getting a work of art, more than anything. in fact, i'm out of bike storage space in my studio, so two of my bikes (the rensho and eventually the jonny) will be stored on the wall as art anyway. very accessible, useful art. then again, i'm nickel and diming myself to death with the flourishes I deem "necessary." (like couplers. huh.)

i would say go for it, but pay attention to the lag time. i mean, it wouldn't have changed my decision about what i wanted and from who, but it really is torturous. know what you're getting into when it comes to waiting months - years is it, Sacha? - for a frame. i'm getting emails from friends who watch Jon's website to see when he moves to next on the list. (he just finished one this week, i'm told). i do a little happydance at news like that. this is how bad it gets.

but i'm looking forward to a frame that's me, that really fits, that fits my specific needs. there's no way i could find a square track frame with couplers and longer wheelbase i like for on street ANYWHERE. so i got it made.

Gay is the new straight. My conversion is purple and then I have my officially femmed up 80's racer with 80's Gay Cinelli splash tape (I know, they put it right there on the box!). Then I spec'd my ANT with a mint green powder coat. After I showed her the color, Krista told me I have a gay taste in bikes. But I guess so does Mike Flanigan, because he really liked the color and said he'd been wanting to build one that color.

I bet whatever bike I made you would be faster than anything you had ever ridden before...put me to the test!

DW

for a complimentary frame, you say? i'll do it!

really busy with the breakup. what a pain!
i'll get to you with your stuff soon. i've got a custom frame in the package. ;)
take your time man. it is just stuff.

http://www.vanillabicycles.com/bikes/mountain/bike_c/lrg/5.jpg

amazing

I think that has been hashed and rehashed to death now, but the only real reason to buy a custom is because you WANT one. You want one so bad that nothing else will do. Let's face it, that's a large part of why so many people here ride conversions, and swap things out and repaint their rides and diss Pistas. Because they want something that's THEIRS. So yeah, if you want a beautiful, wonderfully made machine that's made specifically for you, and fits you to perfection, it's a good idea. If you want a bike that'll make you faster - probably not.

To the guitar builder. People "get by" with Martin or Taylor or "even cheaper guitars"!?? Even cheaper than guitars that routinely cost $3000? I'm a good acoustic guitarist. I can get paid for what I do. But I play a Washburn, a D14M that I got for £50! I aspire to a Lowden. The world where Froggy Bottom could build me a guitar requires a lottery win, or several number ones. At the level I'm at, I'm "getting by" with my guitar, and would do better on a Lowden or a Taylor, but I'm probably in the 95th centile of all acoustic guitar players. No-one out there with a Taylor is just "getting by".

ok "get by" was a bad choice of words. But I was speaking more towards MSNGR's comment about using any old cheapo frame vs custom. Some of my favorite recordings are of the old blues guitarists like Leadbelly, Arthur Blake, Blind Johnson ect... Those guys showed up to the studio with broken beat up guitars with year old strings on them. Give the cheapest guitar to some one who can play and they will out shine anyone on a <insert custom name here> guitar. Give someone(msngr;) a cheap frame and he will ride circles around me on a <insert bling frame>. That is my point. Beleive me I don't dis on cheap guitars nor cheap frames everything has it's purpose and place.

Ah, right. Fair enough then.

Gay is the new straight. My conversion is purple and then I have my officially femmed up 80's racer with 80's Gay Cinelli splash tape (I know, they put it right there on the box!). Then I spec'd my ANT with a mint green powder coat. After I showed her the color, Krista told me I have a gay taste in bikes. But I guess so does Mike Flanigan, because he really liked the color and said he'd been wanting to build one that color.

Just remember the "Bike Style Police" will be watching you !!
One mistake and you're busted. ;) :D


Seriously, I like that color.

i hope you mean that in a good way, otherwise, you're utterly boring.

Would I build a bike and post it on my site and call it super gay if I didn't mean it in a good way? I can see where you are coming from though.

Would I build a bike and post it on my site and call it super gay if I didn't mean it in a good way? I can see where you are coming from though.

Ok, I guess a couple of people said exactly what I said...I'll have to read further forward next time.

Good morning Sacha. Good to see you here.

Judah wrote:" Vanilla makes pretty bikes, Walker makes fast bikes, etc...."

Is this true?are pretty and fast mutually exclusive?

-Sacha

Don't get butt-hurt dude, see DW's response, it explains my statement pretty well. Some people want a beautiful bike with hand carved, chromed lugs, cool seatpost, etc. and some people want a hardcore racing machine. Not saying that the two are mutually exclusive, but for them to exist in the same frame takes a lot more money than most of us mortals are able to spend. You and Don sell to different markets, no? I mean, most of Don's customers are people who use their bikes primarily to race. Most of the Vanilla bikes I've seen out there are very very pretty, but not neccesarily racers...

Not trying to offend you, you're an artist man, and a great one at that. I'm just commenting on a trend I've noticed. I'd love to own one of your bikes, same way I'd love to own a VanGogh, but I can't justify the price.

mmm... a Vanilla came into my shop for repairs. It was this lovely tiny touring frame, light blue, with matching two-tone fenders and couplers that had somehow been filed to have a more lug-like look. wow. it was hot.

how you did that to the couplers i'll never know, Sacha, but wow... just, wow.

I :love: all things custom.

I've custom built furniture from scratch which is better than anything I can buy retail.

I've custom built a vacuum tube stereo amplifier from scratch which is better than any stereo I can buy at Circuit City.

I've had people build me custom parts for my projects which are better than anything I could buy out of a catalog.

My bike frames are custom. Not for the speed factor, but for the control of production. I make the decisions on geo, tubing (to a degree), joindery, any extras and paint.

Sacha builds lovely frames for recreational enjoyment. Don builds frames to be raced on. Johnny Coast, Rich Adams, Jonny Cycles, Troy Courtney and many more, all build beautiful frames.

I know someone in Montreal who built a carbon fiber turntable from scratch. He painstakingly layered the CF sheets over molds to make the tonearm, plith and platter. one of the most beautiful pieces of audio equipment I've seen and heard. Will a cheap plastic Denon or Technics play the same record? Yes. Will you hear a difference, maybe, maybe not.

Will you go faster on a custom frame? Maybe, maybe not.

In most cases, it won't really matter.

Don't get butt-hurt dude, see DW's response, it explains my statement pretty well. Some people want a beautiful bike with hand carved, chromed lugs, cool seatpost, etc. and some people want a hardcore racing machine. Not saying that the two are mutually exclusive, but for them to exist in the same frame takes a lot more money than most of us mortals are able to spend. You and Don sell to different markets, no? I mean, most of Don's customers are people who use their bikes primarily to race. Most of the Vanilla bikes I've seen out there are very very pretty, but not neccesarily racers...

Not trying to offend you, you're an artist man, and a great one at that. I'm just commenting on a trend I've noticed. I'd love to own one of your bikes, same way I'd love to own a VanGogh, but I can't justify the price.


Wait a second. I distinctly remember reading something somewhere about some female pro/semi-pro (whatever, apparently she's damn good) cyclocross rider, racing a Vanilla.
Fast can be hot. Why not have both?

Rhonda Mazza.

^ thanks.

doesn't sacha sponsor a whole local 'cross team too?

Anyway, the point is that it wasn't an attack on anyone. I wasn't saying that Don's bikes weren't pretty, or that Sacha's bikes weren't fast, but that custom builders specialize in, and sell to, different niches. Sorry if anyone was offended, but that's how I see it. I was trying to help the OP in his/her quest for a custom bike, maybe he/she wants fast, maybe pretty, maybe both. I was just saying that you better know what you want before you get into it.

Welcome back don! I told yas he would be back.