NEWS: Bike seats lead to male impotence
10-03-05, 09:17 PM
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NEWS: Bike seats lead to male impotence
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/04/he...on/04bike.html
October 4, 2005
Serious Riders, Your Bicycle Seat May Affect Your Love Life
By SANDRA BLAKESLEE
A raft of new studies suggest that cyclists, particularly men, should be careful which bicycle seats they choose.
The studies add to earlier evidence that traditional bicycle saddles, the kind with a narrow rear and pointy nose, play a role in sexual impotence.
Some saddle designs are more damaging than others, scientists say. But even so-called ergonomic seats, to protect the sex organs, can be harmful, the research finds. The dozen or so studies, from peer-reviewed journals, are summarized in three articles in September's Journal of Sexual Medicine.
In a bluntly worded editorial with the articles, Dr. Steven Schrader, a reproductive health expert who studies cycling at the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, said he believed that it was no longer a question of "whether or not bicycle riding on a saddle causes erectile dysfunction."
Instead, he said in an interview, "The question is, What are we going to do about it?"
The studies, by researchers at Boston University and in Italy, found that the more a person rides, the greater the risk of impotence or loss of libido. And researchers in Austria have found that many mountain bikers experience saddle-related trauma that leads to small calcified masses inside the scrotum.
This does not mean that people should stop cycling, Dr. Schrader said. And those who ride bikes rarely or for short periods need not worry.
But riders who spend many hours on a bike each week should be concerned, he said. And he suggested that the bicycle industry design safer saddles and stop trivializing the risks of the existing seats.
A spokesman for the industry said it was aware of the issue and added that "new designs are coming out."
"Most people are not riding long enough to damage themselves permanently," said the spokesman, Marc Sani, publisher of Bicycle Retailer and Industry News. "But a consumer's first line of defense, for their enthusiasm as well as sexual prowess, is to go to a bicycle retailer and get fitted properly on the bike."
Researchers have estimated that 5 percent of men who ride bikes intensively have developed severe to moderate erectile dysfunction as a result. But some experts believe that the numbers may be much higher because many men are too embarrassed to talk about it or fail to associate cycling with their problems in the bedroom.
The link between bicycle saddles and impotence first received public attention in 1997 when a Boston urologist, Dr. Irwin Goldstein, who had studied the problem, asserted that "there are only two kinds of male cyclists - those who are impotent and those who will be impotent."
Cyclists became angry and defensive, he said, adding: "They said cycling is healthy and could not possibly hurt you. Sure you can get numb. But impotent? No way."
The bicycle industry listened, said Joshua Cohen, a physical therapist in Chapel Hill, N.C., and the author of "Finding the Perfect Bicycle Seat." Manufacturers designed dozens of new saddles with cut outs, splits in the back and thick gel padding to relieve pressure on tender body parts.
Scientists also stepped up their research. Since 2000, a dozen studies have been carried out using sophisticated tools to see exactly what happens when vulnerable human anatomy meets the bicycle saddle.
The area in question is the perineum, between the external genitals and the anus. "When you sit on a chair you never put weight on the perineum," Dr. Schrader said. "But when you sit on a bike, you increase pressure on the perineum" sevenfold.
In men, a sheath in the perineum, called Alcock's canal, contains an artery and a nerve that supply the penis with blood and sensation. The canal runs along the side of a bone, Dr. Goldstein said, and when a cyclist sits hard on a narrow saddle, the artery and the nerve are compressed. Over time, a reduction of blood flow can mean that there is not enough pressure to achieve full erection.
In women, Dr. Goldstein said, the same arteries and nerves engorge the clitoris during sexual intercourse. Women cyclists have not been studied as much, he added, but they probably suffer the same injuries.
Researchers are using a variety of methods to study the compression caused by different saddles. One method involves draping a special pad with 900 pressure sensors over the saddle. The distribution of the rider's weight is then registered on a computer. In another technique, sensors are placed on the rider's penis to measure oxygen flowing through arteries beneath the skin. Blood flow is detected by other sensors that send a "swoosh" sound to a Doppler machine.
The research shows that when riders sit on a classic saddle with a teardrop shape and a long nose, a quarter of their body weight rests on the nose, putting pressure on the perineum. The amount of oxygen reaching the penis typically falls 70 percent to 80 percent in three minutes. "A guy can sit on a saddle and have his penis oxygen levels drop 100 percent but he doesn't know it," Mr. Cohen said. "After half an hour he goes numb."
Dr. Goldstein added, "Numbness is your body telling you something is wrong."
Today's ergonomic saddles have splits in the back or holes in the center to relieve pressure on the perineum. But this may make matters worse: the ergonomic saddles have smaller surface areas, so the rider's weight presses harder on less saddle, Dr. Schrader said. The perineum may not escape injury because its arteries run laterally and they are not directly over the cutouts. The arteries can come under more pressure when they come into contact with the cutouts' edges.
Thick gels on saddles can also increase pressure to the perineum, the studies found, because the material can migrate and form clumps in all the wrong places.
Just as many smokers do not get lung cancer, many cyclists will never develop impotence from bicycle seats, the scientists said. What makes one person more vulnerable than another is not known. Body weight seems to matter: heavier riders exert more pressure on saddles. Variations in anatomy may also make a difference.
Dr. Goldstein said he often saw patients who were stunned to learn that riding a bicycle led to their impotence. One middle-aged man rode in a special cycling event to honor a friend and has been impotent since. A 28-year-old who came in for testing, Dr Goldstein said, showed the penile blood flow of a 60-year-old. A college student who had competed in rough cycling sports was unable to achieve an erection until microvascular surgery restored penile blood flow.
"We make kids wear helmets and knee pads," Dr. Goldstein said. "But no one thinks about protecting the crotch."
The safest seats and saddles, experts say, force the rider to sit back firmly on the sit bones so the perineum is protected.
Dr. Schrader advocates saddles that do not have noses. After finding that traditional saddles reduced the quality of nighttime erections in young policemen who patrol on bicycles, he has persuaded scores of officers in several cities to use noseless seats and is now studying the officers' sexual function over six months.
Nunzio Lamaestra, a 46-year-old police officer in San Antonio, said he appreciated his noseless bicycle saddle.
"You get used to riding without the nose," he said. "I can do everything, including ride with no hands."
October 4, 2005
Serious Riders, Your Bicycle Seat May Affect Your Love Life
By SANDRA BLAKESLEE
A raft of new studies suggest that cyclists, particularly men, should be careful which bicycle seats they choose.
The studies add to earlier evidence that traditional bicycle saddles, the kind with a narrow rear and pointy nose, play a role in sexual impotence.
Some saddle designs are more damaging than others, scientists say. But even so-called ergonomic seats, to protect the sex organs, can be harmful, the research finds. The dozen or so studies, from peer-reviewed journals, are summarized in three articles in September's Journal of Sexual Medicine.
In a bluntly worded editorial with the articles, Dr. Steven Schrader, a reproductive health expert who studies cycling at the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, said he believed that it was no longer a question of "whether or not bicycle riding on a saddle causes erectile dysfunction."
Instead, he said in an interview, "The question is, What are we going to do about it?"
The studies, by researchers at Boston University and in Italy, found that the more a person rides, the greater the risk of impotence or loss of libido. And researchers in Austria have found that many mountain bikers experience saddle-related trauma that leads to small calcified masses inside the scrotum.
This does not mean that people should stop cycling, Dr. Schrader said. And those who ride bikes rarely or for short periods need not worry.
But riders who spend many hours on a bike each week should be concerned, he said. And he suggested that the bicycle industry design safer saddles and stop trivializing the risks of the existing seats.
A spokesman for the industry said it was aware of the issue and added that "new designs are coming out."
"Most people are not riding long enough to damage themselves permanently," said the spokesman, Marc Sani, publisher of Bicycle Retailer and Industry News. "But a consumer's first line of defense, for their enthusiasm as well as sexual prowess, is to go to a bicycle retailer and get fitted properly on the bike."
Researchers have estimated that 5 percent of men who ride bikes intensively have developed severe to moderate erectile dysfunction as a result. But some experts believe that the numbers may be much higher because many men are too embarrassed to talk about it or fail to associate cycling with their problems in the bedroom.
The link between bicycle saddles and impotence first received public attention in 1997 when a Boston urologist, Dr. Irwin Goldstein, who had studied the problem, asserted that "there are only two kinds of male cyclists - those who are impotent and those who will be impotent."
Cyclists became angry and defensive, he said, adding: "They said cycling is healthy and could not possibly hurt you. Sure you can get numb. But impotent? No way."
The bicycle industry listened, said Joshua Cohen, a physical therapist in Chapel Hill, N.C., and the author of "Finding the Perfect Bicycle Seat." Manufacturers designed dozens of new saddles with cut outs, splits in the back and thick gel padding to relieve pressure on tender body parts.
Scientists also stepped up their research. Since 2000, a dozen studies have been carried out using sophisticated tools to see exactly what happens when vulnerable human anatomy meets the bicycle saddle.
The area in question is the perineum, between the external genitals and the anus. "When you sit on a chair you never put weight on the perineum," Dr. Schrader said. "But when you sit on a bike, you increase pressure on the perineum" sevenfold.
In men, a sheath in the perineum, called Alcock's canal, contains an artery and a nerve that supply the penis with blood and sensation. The canal runs along the side of a bone, Dr. Goldstein said, and when a cyclist sits hard on a narrow saddle, the artery and the nerve are compressed. Over time, a reduction of blood flow can mean that there is not enough pressure to achieve full erection.
In women, Dr. Goldstein said, the same arteries and nerves engorge the clitoris during sexual intercourse. Women cyclists have not been studied as much, he added, but they probably suffer the same injuries.
Researchers are using a variety of methods to study the compression caused by different saddles. One method involves draping a special pad with 900 pressure sensors over the saddle. The distribution of the rider's weight is then registered on a computer. In another technique, sensors are placed on the rider's penis to measure oxygen flowing through arteries beneath the skin. Blood flow is detected by other sensors that send a "swoosh" sound to a Doppler machine.
The research shows that when riders sit on a classic saddle with a teardrop shape and a long nose, a quarter of their body weight rests on the nose, putting pressure on the perineum. The amount of oxygen reaching the penis typically falls 70 percent to 80 percent in three minutes. "A guy can sit on a saddle and have his penis oxygen levels drop 100 percent but he doesn't know it," Mr. Cohen said. "After half an hour he goes numb."
Dr. Goldstein added, "Numbness is your body telling you something is wrong."
Today's ergonomic saddles have splits in the back or holes in the center to relieve pressure on the perineum. But this may make matters worse: the ergonomic saddles have smaller surface areas, so the rider's weight presses harder on less saddle, Dr. Schrader said. The perineum may not escape injury because its arteries run laterally and they are not directly over the cutouts. The arteries can come under more pressure when they come into contact with the cutouts' edges.
Thick gels on saddles can also increase pressure to the perineum, the studies found, because the material can migrate and form clumps in all the wrong places.
Just as many smokers do not get lung cancer, many cyclists will never develop impotence from bicycle seats, the scientists said. What makes one person more vulnerable than another is not known. Body weight seems to matter: heavier riders exert more pressure on saddles. Variations in anatomy may also make a difference.
Dr. Goldstein said he often saw patients who were stunned to learn that riding a bicycle led to their impotence. One middle-aged man rode in a special cycling event to honor a friend and has been impotent since. A 28-year-old who came in for testing, Dr Goldstein said, showed the penile blood flow of a 60-year-old. A college student who had competed in rough cycling sports was unable to achieve an erection until microvascular surgery restored penile blood flow.
"We make kids wear helmets and knee pads," Dr. Goldstein said. "But no one thinks about protecting the crotch."
The safest seats and saddles, experts say, force the rider to sit back firmly on the sit bones so the perineum is protected.
Dr. Schrader advocates saddles that do not have noses. After finding that traditional saddles reduced the quality of nighttime erections in young policemen who patrol on bicycles, he has persuaded scores of officers in several cities to use noseless seats and is now studying the officers' sexual function over six months.
Nunzio Lamaestra, a 46-year-old police officer in San Antonio, said he appreciated his noseless bicycle saddle.
"You get used to riding without the nose," he said. "I can do everything, including ride with no hands."
10-03-05, 09:42 PM
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This is so old. Some folks have problems, some don't. I been riding for nearly 40 years and my boys and libido are just fine, thank you. Darn doctors would have us all living in bubbles if they could.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
10-03-05, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by chipcom
Darn doctors would have us all living in bubbles if they could.
No they wouldn't, theyd be out of a job if they did.
Elvish
10-03-05, 10:08 PM
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So uhh.. what are some seats without noses? I've not noticed any decreased libido or function, but I have no great love for my current seat and when it comes to the perenium, better safe than sorry says I.
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10-03-05, 10:53 PM
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Look... if this is a problem for ya, save yourself a lot of time and money and just get your "old lady" a nice pair of long leather boots. There ain't no problem that Viagra, Cialis, or a perineum friendly seat can't solve that a pair of long leather boots can't solve either.
10-03-05, 11:30 PM
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Nice article. I'll cut it out for my wife to read. She'll be interested to read about her husband's impotence in between feeding and changing the twins.
10-03-05, 11:58 PM
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This is real. If most men can't speak up, fine. But denial caused me problems I wish I would have just owned up to, and whenever someone asks me about my seat, I let them know everything I can tell them.
While most men aren't bothered, I and lot of other men are. I rode for over a year every day, at least five miles a day, and didn't really feel anything hugely wrong aside from the odd dibble-ie sensation after particularly long rides. I had some numbness after a really, really long ride, but convinced myself I was just tired.
But a bout of prostititis woke me up. When I didn't ride, I was fine. But when I rode, it burned like hell. I could still get it up and enjoy my girlfriend, but it hurt like a mother when I finished off.
I realized it ws my love of cycling, and took a break of about a month. It worked. No problems.
Then when I went back, even though it wasn't nearly as bad as before, there was something.
I'm all good now. No burning, no impotence, no nothing. Except I'm not going to take any more chances, and I''m not going to be ruing the day, fifty years from now, that I decided to ride a bike.
So I got myself a Spongy Wonder. Not for everyone, but for me, my guys, and my lady friends, however sleazy that sounds.
There's a number of other choices here: https://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4714
While most men aren't bothered, I and lot of other men are. I rode for over a year every day, at least five miles a day, and didn't really feel anything hugely wrong aside from the odd dibble-ie sensation after particularly long rides. I had some numbness after a really, really long ride, but convinced myself I was just tired.
But a bout of prostititis woke me up. When I didn't ride, I was fine. But when I rode, it burned like hell. I could still get it up and enjoy my girlfriend, but it hurt like a mother when I finished off.
I realized it ws my love of cycling, and took a break of about a month. It worked. No problems.
Then when I went back, even though it wasn't nearly as bad as before, there was something.
I'm all good now. No burning, no impotence, no nothing. Except I'm not going to take any more chances, and I''m not going to be ruing the day, fifty years from now, that I decided to ride a bike.
So I got myself a Spongy Wonder. Not for everyone, but for me, my guys, and my lady friends, however sleazy that sounds.
There's a number of other choices here: https://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4714
10-04-05, 04:56 AM
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I posted because it was news to me, and it seems like pretty darned important information to have out there. I think it would be safe to say that this issue is not common knowledge outside the medical and hard-core biking communities. I posted here because this forum attracts a lot of new riders who may not be familiar with this issue, riders who also spend a good deal of time in the saddle.
FWIW I am continually amazed by the theory that 'it didn't happen to me so it's not important/doesn't exist'.
FWIW I am continually amazed by the theory that 'it didn't happen to me so it's not important/doesn't exist'.
10-04-05, 05:28 AM
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In my experience, this is only an issue when a bike is set up in a way that forces one to sit on one's perineum. Some more reading:
A Comfortable and Efficient Position - Rivendell
and
A Comfortable Saddle - Sheldon Brown
Best,
e.
A Comfortable and Efficient Position - Rivendell
and
A Comfortable Saddle - Sheldon Brown
Best,
e.
10-04-05, 05:43 AM
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I too have been cycling for many years. Not as many as chipcom, though! Dang dude! I thought my 23 years was a lot!!
Anyway, this news has been around a while. Yes, make sure your bike is set up right.
I also tour on this bike. I have been known to ride 120 a day for several days. Been commuting and touring most of my adult life. No problems so far. Is it possible? Sure. Is it common? I don't think so. Doctors have to cover their bases and tell you about the risks, however.
Anyway, this news has been around a while. Yes, make sure your bike is set up right.
I also tour on this bike. I have been known to ride 120 a day for several days. Been commuting and touring most of my adult life. No problems so far. Is it possible? Sure. Is it common? I don't think so. Doctors have to cover their bases and tell you about the risks, however.
10-04-05, 05:56 AM
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Personally I think it's a matter of seat choice, adjustment and riding position. No matter what seat you have, if you slide forward and ride on the horn you're going to have problems.
Here's one of those goofy saddles. I can't imagine it would be fun to use, but I could be wrong:
https://www.bycycleinc.com/
Here's one for the "real men":
https://sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html
Here's one of those goofy saddles. I can't imagine it would be fun to use, but I could be wrong:
https://www.bycycleinc.com/
Here's one for the "real men":
https://sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html
10-04-05, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jharte
Is it possible? Sure. Is it common? I don't think so. Doctors have to cover their bases and tell you about the risks, however.
Cigarette smoking doesn't always lead to cancer, but most of us accept those statistics because so many of us have heard about people who smoked and suffered cancer becase of it. We also accept the statstics because smoking also impacts our ability to be active without struggling to breathe.
I think the thing to do is to be aware of the risk, and either do something now to correct it, or at least pay attention to our bodies and respond immediately to symptoms, even if it is just a little tingling.
Of course, I think it is alarmist of the person quoted to equate impotence with head injuries. I also find the statistics useless. The fact that 5% of long term cyclists eventually become impotent means nothing unless there is information about impotence in the general population. Is it 2% or 4.9%? The implication of this article changes significantly with those figures. Plus, I tend to distrust statistics in news reports that are multiples of 5... Is this really 5% or 2.5% rounded to the nearest 5%? What was the sample size? Perhaps this has all been taken into account, but it is not stated (that I recall).
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10-04-05, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
Personally I think it's a matter of seat choice, adjustment and riding position. No matter what seat you have, if you slide forward and ride on the horn you're going to have problems.
Here's one of those goofy saddles. I can't imagine it would be fun to use, but I could be wrong:
https://www.bycycleinc.com/
Here's one of those goofy saddles. I can't imagine it would be fun to use, but I could be wrong:
https://www.bycycleinc.com/
10-04-05, 08:14 AM
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This just in: the average american diet and lifestyle will also cause impotence. Old news. Ill keep ridding my bike.
10-04-05, 08:17 AM
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Excpet for me (as I haven't been trying) all member sof my team have recently had kids after any years of riding. I have to agree that having a proper bike setup means the world in comfort after riding long distances.
10-04-05, 08:17 AM
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This is so old, I believe the quoted Dr. Golstein has actually recanted (after he was determined to become a real quack with regards to bicycling). Folks pointed out to him that saddle position was the source of the problem and he finally agreed.
https://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/publi...ion=item&id=52
https://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/publi...ion=item&id=52
10-04-05, 08:18 AM
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do a quick google search for "erectile dysfunction number"
I did, and one of the first links led me to a page from the cleveland medical journal - something like 40% of people over forty have moderate ED, between 5% and 17% have complete ED.
Oh, also, sexual impotence was much more common in people who aren't physically fit.
I did, and one of the first links led me to a page from the cleveland medical journal - something like 40% of people over forty have moderate ED, between 5% and 17% have complete ED.
Oh, also, sexual impotence was much more common in people who aren't physically fit.
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10-04-05, 08:59 AM
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Sure, bike saddles could cause some impotence... but, ask any doctor who knows anything about the disorder, and they'll tell you that cardiovascular disease is a primary factor in impotence, in fact impotence is a darn good predictor of cardiovascular system health.
So stories like this are like stories we read that eating too much fish or eating too much pesticide residue from fruits / veg could harm us. What's the alternative? More red meat? No fruits / veg? Would that be better?
Stoopid journalists.
So stories like this are like stories we read that eating too much fish or eating too much pesticide residue from fruits / veg could harm us. What's the alternative? More red meat? No fruits / veg? Would that be better?
Stoopid journalists.
10-04-05, 09:14 AM
#22
Senior Member
Just seems a little ironic..Fitness keeps one fit..Well... So my point..Seems cycling enhances urges. Most spouses have a field day when their road warrior returns . And Seems cycling increases VO2 and the exercise makes the cyclist all the more ready..Maybe it is just too much eye contact with cyclists in bike kit of the other gender.
Last edited by cyclezealot; 10-04-05 at 09:35 AM.
10-04-05, 01:08 PM
#23
What's the speed of dark?
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Originally Posted by 2mtr
But a bout of prostititis woke me up
https://www.prostatitis.org
10-04-05, 01:47 PM
#24
Zinophile
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Actually, a poor fitting bike can can cause the problem and even increase the problem. I have had custom bikes since 1987 and no problems even when I was riding 12K miles per year.
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Tibikefor2
Tibikefor2
10-04-05, 02:23 PM
#25
pAIYILI
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