Foo - Will not be outed... GID

Someone on this forum (who now has been banned) along with his aliases have attacked me personally again. This time the individual left a threatening PM on a support site after I posted some very personal things about my current condition in regards to GID. I can not let someone like that trash me all over the net so I am going to give a little background here on what is going on. Effectivly I will out myself here, but I will not give any personal information on me.

What I am about to tell you maybe contriversal, please do not turn this into a flame war like a homosexual thing, abortion, etc. What I am about to tell you is proven fact, documented, diagnosed and treatable. For someone who has GID it is the challenge of a life time. Nearly 50% of documented GID cases commit suicide before they turn 30. Until a few years ago the idea if GID was not accepted by mainstrem society, making it even harder to understand.

I am going to start the topic in the next post. Be advised, it may be a bit graphic, sorry but it has to be. There are no photos but I can direct you to somewhere if you want to see more information. In some states you may be required to be over 18 to read this material, although I will keep it PG13 (well most of it).

Solidarity, my friend! I'm with you!

GID - Gender identity disorder (disease), also know as GD, gender dysphoria.

GID is defined as the belief that an individual is of a different gender than the one that was assigned to an individual at birth, male or female designations. (see wikipedia definition of GD) The common term for this is transsexuality and people with GD can be designated as either transsexuals (TS) or transvestites (TV). For many people this definition is troubling, if someone is born a boy they are a man and a girl is a woman right? Well that is case is one demension of sexuality.

Gender and Sex are two different definitions. Sex is defined as your anatomical genetic makeup, male or female. This is assigned in the egg as either XY or XX chromosomes. Abnormalities such as XXY, etc are common as are what is known as intersex conditions (where the sexual organs are either ambigious or both are present (i.e. overies and a penis)). I was born with a slight intersex condition, the details are not important here.

Gender is defined as your percieved role, masculine as a man or feminine as a woman. Gender is defined as a continous scale, from extremely masculine males (they tend to be solders, police men, firefighters, etc) to very feminine females and everything inbetween. Gender is defined by two factors, social conditioning and what is known as brain gender... yes there are multiple forms of gender. In a normal man the brain develops as a male brain and combined with socalization becomes a man. Vice versa there is what is known as a female brain.

The brain gender (or sex) is defined in the womb. Researchers and doctors have discovered that brain sex is determined about 3 months into conception, at the same time that the sex organs start to form. This is controlled by hormones from the mothers body, testosterone to the fetus if a boy, none for a female. In a normal person the level or testosterone for example to says this fetus will be a boy detemines brain sex. Every person starts as a female, it is the events at 3 months that seperate boys and girls. GID is caused by a disorder at this time in development, generally a boy will not recieve the amount of testosterone needed to develop a male brain, the amount is higher than is needed to cause the sex organs to develop in most cases.

The consiquences of the wrong brain sex are stagering, these individuals seem to never be in "balance", they display characteristics of the opposite sex at an early age, like to play house, play with dolls, etc. As they grow up they are socalized to their birth sex, many times becoming social outcasts, suicidal at an early age. As a person with GID grows older they try and align themselves with their birth sex, getting married and having kids. By the age of 30, a staggering 50% of GID persons commit suicide. Many at 40 to 45 years old finally can not deal with GID anymore and decide to undergo transistion.

Transistion will be the topic of the next post.


How does GID apply to me. I was born with a condition called microphallis (micropenis, penis less than 1/4 inch long at birth, 3.75 inches errect at maturity). It is not directly attributed to kallmann's syndrome but they are closly linked. The figure is something like 20% of people with micropenis also have GID. The cause of microphallis is the same as GID, at about 3 months in the pregency, the body sends testosterone to the baby, initially there is not enough testosterone for full development on the penis. The penis grows for a little then stops. The lack of testosterone at that stage as I stated is directly linked to GID. After 23 years of knowing I was diagnosed with GID by my gender counciler.

Diagnoses and treatment

GID disorder has only one real treatment, transistion, male to female (or female to male) sex change (also known as Sex reassignment), the corresponsing medical treatment is known as SRS or sex reassignment surgery. Of course it is not as easy as you think, going under the knife does not make you a woman or a man, it takes much more than that, socalially, financially, responsibly.

GID is disagnosed by a gender conciler that a person with GID is required to see before even thinking about steps towards SRS. The therapists job is to help a pacient determine if she (male biolgical sex) is GID or not. This process can take a long time, and it is used to help a person avoid a life changing mistake.

There are many things that can mask as GID, including TV and other forms of CD (crossdressing, dressing or presenting as the opposite sex), fedish and not. Some people want to become the oppsite sex for other reasons, such as in a gay partner relationship, drag queens, etc. It is along process, it took 6 months to make a correct detemination of GID in my case.

SRS is not the only option in TS cases but it is the most obvious and applys to 80 percent or more of GID cases. In order for the individual to function, live and be productive it is paramount that they present as their brain sex tells them, many people who don't end up ending thier lives, an unfortunite task. Many people say transistioning from male to female is the only real cure for GID. In my opinion they may be right.

The dicision to transistion really depends on a whole lot of factors including age, family status, etc. Most TS people transistion regardless, felling it is their only way out. People who are diagnosed young do the best as their body can accept the "second puberty" well. They grow breasts, their body shape changes, etc. An individual who decides to transistion states hormone therapy (estrogen, testosteone blockers and later progesterone) to begin to develop the female secondary sexular characteristics. Electrolysis is used to remove the facial and other manly hairs from the body, voice training develops a female voice. FFS (facial feminization surgery) helps change some of the dominant facial male features to female. After a year of therapy after diagnoses (or less) the woman begins RLT (real life training) as a woman role. After 1 year of RLT SRS and other procedures (including breast augmentation) change the male body to something the is functionally very close to a woman, well without the ulterus, overies, etc. Sex is possable like a woman, including orgasms, and the visual result is visually the same as a genetic woman.


GID is a very tough thing to live with. Personally I have had bouts with depression for sometime. So bad that I just want to stay at home and not even ride. I have discovered music as an outlet (I used it for years when I was younger) for self expression. Unless you have GID it is very hard to even begin to understand what it is like. Personally I am a woman trapped in not just a male body but a dysfunctional male body. The only reason that I have been able to live like this for so long is because kallmann's took away all those things that riddle TSs through their lives. Several times in my life I wanted to escape life, but I enjoy living so much I could not even think about it. Then there was more and more.

What does my future hold for me...? I don't really know at this point, dealing with not only Kallmann's but GID is one hard thing to deal with. It can consume my very life, make me cry, make me fearful, etc. I am a typical TS, but transistioning, right now I don't know.

Feel free to ask any questions. I will report anyone who tries to use this to slam me, I would rather get the information out though than let someone else try and screw with me first.

There are alot more but I am not mentally ready to share it here...

Michael (Mandy)

Good on you! It a brave thing that you are doing and I'm happy to see that you are able to share your thoughts and feelings on what is a very difficult situation. The world needs more strong people like you!

I thought that this was bike forums?

I thought that this was bike forums?

If someone else is dragging this into bikeforums to attack the poor kid, it makes perfect sense for him to lay it all out here.

Good luck, my58vw.

(ok, after editing and editing, i'm sticking with the 'him' up there in its gender-neutral pronoun form. i hope nobody has a problem with that.)

I thought that this was bike forums?

I thought this was foo! ("Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.") :rolleyes:

I'm with yah man. I havent read the whole thing, but I have a good feeling you will get this handled. :)

Well my response to the MEAN PEOPLE IS YOU SUCK!!!

I'm always here for you if you ever need someone to JUST LISTEN my58vw. I lost a brother to suicide 7years ago so I will help ANYONE in anyway I can to help save a precious life.

SNOWY!!!

well, it sounds messy. i'll be honest. my first inclination is to suggest anything other than surgery but i'm sure you've gone over all your options. i'm a little speechless about all this to tell you the truth, and don't really have anything to say on the subject. but good luck to you, whatever happens.

I was expecting this to be a post about gastro-intestinal disease... and thought we were going to be exposed to a MUCH more unsettling kind of graphic material! ;)

I'll add good wishes and support to the chorus. If everybody focussed on living their lives happily and fully instead of dumping on others, we'd all be better off. Good luck and keep your courage up.

You gave me great advice for my first criterium. You wrote, "trust your wheels." I did, and it really helped. So... and this is obviously more important than a bike race... trust yourself. Good luck.

Another nod of support VW and wish for your happiness.

There are cruel, manipulative and generally sucky people on the internet. Don't let them get you down.

well, it sounds messy. i'll be honest. my first inclination is to suggest anything other than surgery but i'm sure you've gone over all your options. i'm a little speechless about all this to tell you the truth, and don't really have anything to say on the subject. but good luck to you, whatever happens.


Tim, with all due respect, unless you're a trans person having been there, I'm sorry but you have no voice on the subject of surgery.

I understand where you're coming from, and to a 'normal' (god I hate that term) male a bilateratal orchectomy and penectomy would be the last possible solution to ANY situation.

To a trans person, there are times when it's the only solution other than a terminal one. Been there, done that and still have the tee-shirt from Dr Menard's Finishing School.

Thanks for your support of 58vw, i'm sure 'e needs all that can be had. This is a tough process to go through, with no easy answers.

Peace.

It took alot of courage to write that. And I respect that. You my freind are someone who people can look up to. Man, if anyone gives you crap then I can promise you they are losers at life. They feel better about themselves of they slam other people. You are not a winner, your a champion.

I wish the best of luck to you. And keep ridin that bike dude.

STACEY.....you're alright! :) :) :)

I wouldn't worry about the mean dude. He's got some issues of his own that could destroy his life if he doesn't turn it around.

I'm no expert on GID nor am I a counselor so I'll just throw you my support and hope you find your true self and a way to be yourself. It sounds like you're on your way.

BTW, nice Vee Dub.

And to think I am upset because I am a bit overweight. We are here for you Michael and you will be on my mind.... in my prayers. My prayers that you make the right decision for YOU, whatever decision that may be. Good Luck my friend!

Personally I have had bouts with depression for sometime. So bad that I just want to stay at home and not even ride.


As an alternative to expressing my sympathy towards your problem, I'll say that anyone who thinks the biggest problem with their depression is it getting in the way of riding has their heart in the right place, be it man, woman, or somewhere in between!

::thumbsup::

I'm sure you have thought of the several complications associated with this difficult decision, but I have a couple of questions.

1. I am under the impression you are a pretty tall person 6'-4" or so. Will this make it more difficult being a woman?

2. I also thought you were very involved with competitive racing. Will there be any restrictions placed on you racing with other women?

As Stacy indicated, I'm sure it's impossible to understand your situation with out being affected by your condition. Is the a way of looking at your self, not a someone who is a "freak", but rather someone with a special gift? You obviously have an understanding a both genders that very few people will every be able to experience. If you decide to go ahead with the gender reassignment, wont you lose that special gift?

I know two people who have undergone gender reassignment. One male to female, and the other female to male. It seemed to me that the female to male case was much more adjusted. Do you have any information about how each type of reassignment handles the change? Personally, I think becoming a woman would be extremely difficult after being a man.

Thanks for sharing. I hope you are able to make this decision with all the guidance possible.


Steve
-all important decisions are made on the basis of insufficient data

ps. I am one of those people that also like your race reports. And don't let evil people get you down. They just don't know any better.

One of my other fav boards, The Straight Dope, has a number of folks who've been in your situation. It's a pay board, but only about $14 bucks a year. You can also try it for free for a month but you can't use the search feature. It might be worth checking out.

I'm one of those girls who's always been into "guy" stuff. I identify as female as far as sexual relationships go, but I tend to dress fairly unisex and I'm just not "girly". Now, I fully realize that's nothing compared to your situation, but it does give me a certian sympathy.

Good luck. I hope that if you choose surgery it goes well and the results are all you hoped for.

keep your chin up, my58. you've got way more friends here than enemies.

Can't imagine what your condition is like, but I don't think you're the one with the main problem.
Your harassers however need to have a good long look at themselves to see why they feel the need to harass you. Maybe they have some kind of mental anguish which by picking on others diverts their attension away from their own problems.

Good luck and don't let the morons get to you! :)

Let me first say thank you for all the support you have given me. You have no idea what it means to me, brings me to tears just writing this. In the last week of so the onset of depression has hit me very hard. As an attempt to reafirm my male side (wherever that is) I looked into penile lengthing, and found that there is little they could do for me, and all it did was reafirm my female side (which is most of me now). BTW I have what is known as micropenis, flacing length less than 1 inch, errect around 3 inches.

I have really nothing that is holding this male body (more androgious than anything) to me, even one guy at work said that my face already looks quite femine (mostly from the lack of an adams apple and facial hair. My parents can not accept it either although they always knew something was "wrong". I can tell you stores all day long about the hard times I had growing up. I joke but it is true that I knew about SRS before I could even multiply or divide, around 6 - 7 years old at the latest. They see to think all my problems are self esteme because of micropenis.

To answer your questions, yes I am 6'6", and yes that makes being a woman a "bit" harder, although there are many natal (natural) women that are between 6'3" and 6'6". The other issue is the larger frame size, of course if my sister is 6'3' and large frame size I bet other women are like that. The main obsticle though is not size but clothing. In a way I need to "prove" to myself that I can fit in womens clothing well which is realated to being tall. I have a few dresses that I adore that are longer and fit relativly well (size 14, I would like to be a 12, I don't know if that is possable though). Even worse is the shoe situation. You can find (normal) women shoes up to size 15, I wear a 15/16 (size 13.5 mens). I need to order some women shoes and see how they really fit.

BTW when inside you ARE a women, little things like heigth and shoes are a small problem.

For racing, which is not quite a main concern right now, the year of transistion would be as a male, during RLT I could proably get by registering as a female and starting all over again, or just having my male licence changed (with official name change). I would race both catagories though. BTW I have effectivly been racing guys with the strength levels of a woman for over a year... but they will not let me race with the women :cry:

Of course none of this can really happen until I can move out, but that does not mean that I can not clear the little hair on my face, live maybe a week as female away from home, etc and go from there...

I am not sure though right now. All I know is God has a plan for me, and something about this is comforting, I think I was always ment to be a woman... :D

Well, as you know from previous threads of yours, I have a lot of respect for you. From your PM's last week, I know it took a hell of a lot of courage to fully "out" yourself on your condition.

I'm glad the mods of the forum took appropriate action on the childish behavior mentioned in your first post.

I'm also glad to see the general outpouring of support in the first page of comments, althought I really didn't expect any less.

Whatever path you decide to go, I support you and your decision because you seem like a great person. I'm glad that I have finally matured to a point where I'm not disgusted or scared by people like you. I grew up in a rather hate-words-filled home (racism, sexism, etc.) and I'm glad I didn't turn out the way I was nurtured to. It's sad that some people can't grow out of that and enjoy enchancing other's misfortune.
If you need someone to rant to, about someone being an ass hat at work or on a forum, feel free to PM or EMail me.

Is a forum devoted to bicycles the place for this admission?

Is a forum devoted to bicycles the place for this admission?
As mentioned earlier in this thread, including in the first post...

It was brought to this forum by a person who had no reason to do so. In the government, it's called "damage control". It's much easier for my58 to let it be public and let the public do what they want than to cover it up, cover it up, bottle it up, cover it up, until someone displays a "shocker" of the truth.

Also, this is the "Foo" forum. For general discussion about everything except for politics and religion, jokes, or books/movies.

This is a forum dedicated to cyclists and their daily lives, not bicycles. Bicycles don't have fingers.

Is a forum devoted to bicycles the place for this admission?

It is when other forum members are harassing people.
And if you only want to read bicycle related topics why are you looking in 'foo' :p

You have a ton going on in you life. Get off the bike and do yoga. I had issues of my own that I needed to deal with (nothing of this magnitude). Yoga helped me find the answers that I needed by giving me some inner peace from "feeling the breath". I know it sounds stupid and I didn't believe it either at first, but now I am sold. If for nothing else you can at least think that it will help with your breathing patterns while biking.

I'd just like to point out that at least part of my58vw's concern's involve future racing status, making it quite bike oriented.

How will that work anyway? I understand from someone's posts on another board that once he'd begun the various therapys, he'd noticed a marked change in his muscle strength. From those posts I got the impression that any advantage having a previously male body might have given would be pretty well negligable. Of course there's the size thing, but as my58vw pointed out, his sister is nearly his height and I think women in general are getting bigger anyway.

Have there been any previous re-assigned cyclists who went on to race for the "other" side? How'd they do?

Oh, and my58vw? This is why it's called an "on-line community " :) Supporting each other when needed is part of it, or darn well should be!

I'd just like to point out that at least part of my58vw's concern's involve future racing status, making it quite bike oriented.

How will that work anyway? I understand from someone's posts on another board that once he'd begun the various therapys, he'd noticed a marked change in his muscle strength. From those posts I got the impression that any advantage having a previously male body might have given would be pretty well negligable. Of course there's the size thing, but as my58vw pointed out, his sister is nearly his height and I think women in general are getting bigger anyway.

Have there been any previous re-assigned cyclists who went on to race for the "other" side? How'd they do?

Oh, and my58vw? This is why it's called an "on-line community " :) Supporting each other when needed is part of it, or darn well should be!


I don't know about in cycling Zoogirl, but in Tennis there was Rene Richards, who was barred from playing women's tennis... but that was 30 years ago.

I'd say querry the sanctioning body.

First, i'd like to say it takes a lot of courgae to post your story and I applaud that. Second, as i'm sure your aware, dh bike racing had/has some controversy associated with a transgender racer racing with women (she was Canada national champion!), here is a link to her story:
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/MichelleDumaresq.html

It is wonderful to hear that some people know or are people who have fully transistioned and pass in society, that would be my ultimate goal. Bike racing is a minute factor in the whole transistion decision.

If it was up to me I would get final HRT approval and start tomarrow. Unfortunitly living with very unforgiving parents makes it a bit difficult to do it right now. My main concern is financial, and not just the cost of SRS (approximatly 10 - 20k) but FFS, therapy, hormones, etc. Transistioning at work is also another BIG issue.

There are a few support groups out in Los Angeles I am thinking about starting to attend. I know it is just a matter of time until I go though what over 1000 Americans do each year. I guess asking for a more supportive base is too much to ask. What I am really curious about is whether peolple you know about are stelth or open or somewhere inbetween.

It is about finding me... and starting life over with who I should have been all along.

Well, personally I'm some what the feminine androgene. Jeans, Tee shirt or sweater depending on the season, sneakers, short nails (they're weak and I play guitar) seldom make-up and I carry a purse. I think that most of the people in the circiles I travel know or suspect I'm a trans-woman and it dosen't really matter to them. Some of the guys even gently hit on me. From the occasional stranger I'll get "Sir", especially on the phone I simply tell them it hasn't been sir for about 10 years and it's "Maam" now... with the sweetest smile on my face.

Once did I get a WTF ARE YOU! from some imbicile. To which I cooly replied "I'm more of a woman than you'll ever be and more of a man than you'll ever have"... she was dumbstruck.

FWIW, I had my surgery in Montreal, the total bill for the two weeks was around $7200 you might want to put Drs Menard and Brassard on you list

Well, FWIW, one of the people on one of my other boards is a man to woman. She has a site on the net that features a professionally shot portrait. (She's a writer.) It's very tasteful, black top and pearls, and I'd never have guessed she'd been anything other than a very ladylike woman. She's also very upfront about who she is and how she got there. Plus, she's got a wicked sense of humour. Dorothy Parker would've loved her.

If you want to see examples of people "passing", hold your nose, grab some Gravol and watch a little Jerry Springer or Maury Povich. I've seen some amazing people on there.

Get off the bike and do yoga.


BLASPHEMER!


In regards to the racing question - aren't they going through this discussion in the olympics right now? I seem to remember this issue coming up in the last summer olympics with runners.

Excellent book recommended for anyone interested in this subject:

She's Not There: A Life In Two Genders (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0767914295/104-6007022-1625503?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance) , by Jennifer Finney Boylan.

A beautifully written, thoughtful and thought-provoking memoir, specifically by and about a person changing genders and identity, but it will speak deeply to anyone dealing with any sort of "differentness" issues.

Thanks again everyone for your support. The next six months will really tell me lot about my life and my direction.

To answer the question about testosterone it did bring not increased strength but increased ability to recover quicker. In addition though the addition made me angry, less feeling for the emotions of people, etc. I can never really have kids so the benefit of testosterone is small. I am actually considering going off of it again in favor of a supliment to prevent ostioprosis while I deal with GID.

In addition to the emotional factors there are so many other things to take into consideration. I am very afraid of loosing my teaching job, but with the new laws in California that may not be as much of a worry (although they can find other ways to let you go, but not under tenure. My voice is another concern, and on and on.


Something interesting happened today, a lady ran a red light and I hit her, she was 100 percent at fault. My friend a guy was outraged and mad, screaming at the lady. I told him to please calm down and I perceded to tell her everything was ok, nothing was wrong and we would settle it, it is just a bit of paint anyway...

It just makes me realize how compassionate I am towards people, wherever the feeling comes from.

Thanks again...

It just makes me realize how compassionate I am towards people, wherever the feeling comes from.

Thanks again...
Well dang what does that make me if i'm compassionate towards people :p

Well dang what does that make me if i'm compassionate towards people :p

Compasson is a trait I wish all people could have, it is only one factor towards defining oneself... although very important...

nah. Not everybody should have compassion. If everybody did then nobody would apreciate it and there would be no reason for it :p

So we are the fortunite ones then...

WOW! Good luck. Keep us posted on what happens.

Joe

Since you're a woman inside, and woman have to be stronger than men to deal with men and child birth and were physically superior to men during US Naval tests to see who was better for submarine duty and NASA tests to see could handle space travel, you should have enough strength to deal with this. If you have the mental strength to race, you have the mental strength to get through this. It ain't killed you, so you must be stronger already. You've got all our support.

P.S. A little over 10 years ago, my co-workers told me about a man they worked with who changed sex to a woman. He filled out the appropriate paperwork supplied by HR, lived as a woman for a year, while undergoing counseling, then had the operation(s). No loss of pay, job or benefits although there were of course people who couldn't handle it and were mean. However, since the company frowns on that type of behavior, she always had the company on her side. When I was told this story, it was already about 10 years old placing the events in the early 1980's.

What surprised me the most about the story was that forms already existed for this situation.

I don't really know what to say, but feel the need to say something.
I am humbled by your life experience, and would give anything to be able to help you.
My heart has taken on a heavy feeling, just as I read all of the previous.
No matter where we are in life, or where we are going, there is always a need to ignore the cruel. You, my friend, have to do that more than most.
Stay strong, know that you have the support of a great forum here and I hope you can find a group of real life people who can support you and relate to your needs. Don't give up. Find where your joys are. Stick with them.
I send you so much love.
Helen

I'm surprised I didn't see this thread earlier, but this is some crazy stuff.

Hope all goes for the best 53Veedub. Life is a twisted thing sometimes, and the best you can do when life is really getting screwy is to keep your head up and keep on marching.

my58vw,

I'd like to add my name to the chorus supporting you in your journey. It took a helluva lot of courage to tell your story, and frankly I doubt I'd have had the guts to do it. You have my admiration.

I am fortunate to live in a place where your situation would be considered a non-issue by most people, but I was raised in a part of the country rife with racism and sexism, so I know how hateful some folks can be. Ignore those who are hurtful.

I certainly wish you the very best on your journey. You sound like the kind of person I would treasure as a friend. You have shown you have the strength to persevere, so there's no point in advising you to "be strong".

Be true to yourself.

I gotta agree with Snowy...MEAN PEOPLE SUCK!

We are here for you!!

My girlfriend Monica is very tall (6'4) and she wears a size 15 shoe. I asked her and she said this site http://www.bigandbeautifulshoes.com/ has great shoes. It's all about the shoes!!