Road Cycling - New York Times Article on Bike Riding and Impotence 4 October

New York Times Article (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/04/health/nutrition/04bike.html)

taken from today's NY Times. Big article on impotence and bike riding. Make your own conclusions or decisions.

Serious Riders, Your Bicycle Seat May Affect Your Love Life

By SANDRA BLAKESLEE
Published: October 4, 2005
A raft of new studies suggest that cyclists, particularly men, should be careful which bicycle seats they choose.

The studies add to earlier evidence that traditional bicycle saddles, the kind with a narrow rear and pointy nose, play a role in sexual impotence.

Some saddle designs are more damaging than others, scientists say. But even so-called ergonomic seats, to protect the sex organs, can be harmful, the research finds. The dozen or so studies, from peer-reviewed journals, are summarized in three articles in September's Journal of Sexual Medicine.

In a bluntly worded editorial with the articles, Dr. Steven Schrader, a reproductive health expert who studies cycling at the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, said he believed that it was no longer a question of "whether or not bicycle riding on a saddle causes erectile dysfunction."

Instead, he said in an interview, "The question is, What are we going to do about it?"

The studies, by researchers at Boston University and in Italy, found that the more a person rides, the greater the risk of impotence or loss of libido. And researchers in Austria have found that many mountain bikers experience saddle-related trauma that leads to small calcified masses inside the scrotum.

This does not mean that people should stop cycling, Dr. Schrader said. And those who ride bikes rarely or for short periods need not worry.

But riders who spend many hours on a bike each week should be concerned, he said. And he suggested that the bicycle industry design safer saddles and stop trivializing the risks of the existing seats.

A spokesman for the industry said it was aware of the issue and added that "new designs are coming out."

"Most people are not riding long enough to damage themselves permanently," said the spokesman, Marc Sani, publisher of Bicycle Retailer and Industry News. "But a consumer's first line of defense, for their enthusiasm as well as sexual prowess, is to go to a bicycle retailer and get fitted properly on the bike."

Researchers have estimated that 5 percent of men who ride bikes intensively have developed severe to moderate erectile dysfunction as a result. But some experts believe that the numbers may be much higher because many men are too embarrassed to talk about it or fail to associate cycling with their problems in the bedroom.

The link between bicycle saddles and impotence first received public attention in 1997 when a Boston urologist, Dr. Irwin Goldstein, who had studied the problem, asserted that "there are only two kinds of male cyclists - those who are impotent and those who will be impotent."

Cyclists became angry and defensive, he said, adding: "They said cycling is healthy and could not possibly hurt you. Sure you can get numb. But impotent? No way."

The bicycle industry listened, said Joshua Cohen, a physical therapist in Chapel Hill, N.C., and the author of "Finding the Perfect Bicycle Seat." Manufacturers designed dozens of new saddles with cut outs, splits in the back and thick gel padding to relieve pressure on tender body parts.

Scientists also stepped up their research. Since 2000, a dozen studies have been carried out using sophisticated tools to see exactly what happens when vulnerable human anatomy meets the bicycle saddle.

The area in question is the perineum, between the external genitals and the anus. "When you sit on a chair you never put weight on the perineum," Dr. Schrader said. "But when you sit on a bike, you increase pressure on the perineum" sevenfold.

In men, a sheath in the perineum, called Alcock's canal, contains an artery and a nerve that supply the penis with blood and sensation. The canal runs along the side of a bone, Dr. Goldstein said, and when a cyclist sits hard on a narrow saddle, the artery and the nerve are compressed. Over time, a reduction of blood flow can mean that there is not enough pressure to achieve full erection.

In women, Dr. Goldstein said, the same arteries and nerves engorge the clitoris during sexual intercourse. Women cyclists have not been studied as much, he added, but they probably suffer the same injuries.

Researchers are using a variety of methods to study the compression caused by different saddles. One method involves draping a special pad with 900 pressure sensors over the saddle. The distribution of the rider's weight is then registered on a computer. In another technique, sensors are placed on the rider's penis to measure oxygen flowing through arteries beneath the skin. Blood flow is detected by other sensors that send a "swoosh" sound to a Doppler machine.

The research shows that when riders sit on a classic saddle with a teardrop shape and a long nose, a quarter of their body weight rests on the nose, putting pressure on the perineum. The amount of oxygen reaching the penis typically falls 70 percent to 80 percent in three minutes. "A guy can sit on a saddle and have his penis oxygen levels drop 100 percent but he doesn't know it," Mr. Cohen said. "After half an hour he goes numb."

Dr. Goldstein added, "Numbness is your body telling you something is wrong."

Today's ergonomic saddles have splits in the back or holes in the center to relieve pressure on the perineum. But this may make matters worse: the ergonomic saddles have smaller surface areas, so the rider's weight presses harder on less saddle, Dr. Schrader said. The perineum may not escape injury because its arteries run laterally and they are not directly over the cutouts. The arteries can come under more pressure when they come into contact with the cutouts' edges.

Thick gels on saddles can also increase pressure to the perineum, the studies found, because the material can migrate and form clumps in all the wrong places.

Just as many smokers do not get lung cancer, many cyclists will never develop impotence from bicycle seats, the scientists said. What makes one person more vulnerable than another is not known. Body weight seems to matter: heavier riders exert more pressure on saddles. Variations in anatomy may also make a difference.

Dr. Goldstein said he often saw patients who were stunned to learn that riding a bicycle led to their impotence. One middle-aged man rode in a special cycling event to honor a friend and has been impotent since. A 28-year-old who came in for testing, Dr Goldstein said, showed the penile blood flow of a 60-year-old. A college student who had competed in rough cycling sports was unable to achieve an erection until microvascular surgery restored penile blood flow.

"We make kids wear helmets and knee pads," Dr. Goldstein said. "But no one thinks about protecting the crotch."

The safest seats and saddles, experts say, force the rider to sit back firmly on the sit bones so the perineum is protected.

Dr. Schrader advocates saddles that do not have noses. After finding that traditional saddles reduced the quality of nighttime erections in young policemen who patrol on bicycles, he has persuaded scores of officers in several cities to use noseless seats and is now studying the officers' sexual function over six months.

Nunzio Lamaestra, a 46-year-old police officer in San Antonio, said he appreciated his noseless bicycle saddle.

"You get used to riding without the nose," he said. "I can do everything, including ride with no hands."

Ladies and gentlemen, the San Antonio Police Department:



Nunzio Lamaestra, a 46-year-old police officer in San Antonio, said he appreciated his noseless bicycle saddle.

"You get used to riding without the nose," he said. "I can do everything, including ride with no hands."

As a man, I personally find this article terrifying. My saddle ain't comfortable to begin with although I certainly have never had a numb feeling nor any, um, problems. I definitely do not want to do anything which would hurt me long term.

Those saddles w/o the nose are pretty fugly IMHO!

My question is: what are the researchers looking at? Many road cyclists adhere to hard saddles for control, not comfort. One wonders if products like the Brooks leather are as harmful....It is scary. Oh, and by the way Lucky 07, I'm in San Antonio and we're grateful for our police department. They patrol on their bikes in 104 degree weather. Frankly, I would think this forum would be a good place to hash out this issue. Guess I was wrong.

Don't tell my 60 yr old wife about this, she'll take my bike away...

This silly topic rears its head every few years. I personally think it's another excuse not to exercise. Sure, if you get a Wa-Mart bike with a crap saddle that's adjusted wrong, you can have problems, but no serious cyclist is going to ride like that.

Now, how many pros in the peleton have kids? They spend waaaaay more time in the saddle than most recreational cyclists ever will.

I'd love to start seeing studies on which saddles cause the least damage. I don't really know how anyone could deny that cycling can cause impotence. But at the same time, 5% is not huge.

I wouldn't take the chicken little approach and throw your bike away every time these articles get printed - but one thing it included is true - numbness is a bad sign.

I would hope that this article would scare riders just enough to fiddle with their position and saddles until there is no numbness, to avoid more serious issues. If you have no numbness, you're good to go. If you do, you need to address it, imho.

In my opinion, I love riding but I am only willing to sacrifice so much....pain, I can take. Discomfort - hell, anything vaguely uphill is uncomfortable......

Impotence? I could live with it but I am not interested in making it happen!! :eek:

Garbage.

My bars are 2 inches below my saddle, but I'm not exactly lying down on my plumbing. My pelvis is rotated a bit more forward than that. I haven't gone numb in years. ]

So I think the point about a proper fit being the first line of defense is correct.

1. What is the general impotence rate? I bet it's around 5% (for whatever set of demographics he's using).

2. Is there any reason to suspect that the reporting rate is less for cyclists than it is for whatever non-cyclist demographic set that he is citing?

This silly topic rears its head every few years.

Is this supposed to be a pun?

I would hope that this article would scare riders just enough to fiddle with their position and saddles until there is no numbness, to avoid more serious issues.
That's not what's going to happen. What's going to happen is that people are going to use this as an excuse to avoid cycling. I've already had instances in the past where I've offered to take people riding, only for them to make some excuse about now wanting to go sterile.

Do you know how many times I've had people paste me stupid articles like this? It's not quite into the hundreds yet, but it's not far off. They always paste it to me as if it's something new they're telling me. Boy does it get annoying.

The problem is that people are headline scanners. Their eyes drift over something like, "Cycling causes impotence" and that's all they take away from the article. They don't bother to read the text. I could write an article titled "Cellphones cause brain tumors" and a paragraph down write, "In laboratory rats after 20 years of constant exposure at an intensity 500x higher than normal" and tomorrow people would be telling me about the article they saw on cellphones causing brain cancer.

If you do ANYTHING that causes discomfort or numbness ANYWHERE, you need to address that. I'm just getting tired of the jihad against cycling.

Don't tell my 60 yr old wife about this, she'll take my bike away...
Most women that read this would tell their husband to go out and ride more!
;)
George

The problem is that people are headline scanners. Their eyes drift over something like, "Cycling causes impotence" and that's all they take away from the article. They don't bother to read the text. I could write an article titled "Cellphones cause brain tumors" and a paragraph down write, "In laboratory rats after 20 years of constant exposure at an intensity 500x higher than normal" and tomorrow people would be telling me about the article they saw on cellphones causing brain cancer.


I totally agree. It also demonstrates that the NY Times (as well as much of the national media) has sunk to the level of a tabloid.

Okay ... guess it's back to the couch with a beer and potato chips!

Maybe its just me, but I've noticed that since I started riding, I've felt a noticeable increase in sensitivity/reactivity in that area, not tenderness, but sensitivity in a normal, comfortable way. Sure, my butt/perenium may be a bit sore after a longer ride, but who's isnt? Are there any studies that show cycling may improve sexual health/erectile quality? There's more than one side to every story, no?

well if its 5%, there must be quite a few who have actually had problems on here - come on guys, fess up - tell us the reality!

the article also refers to calcified masses in the scrotum. i have just noticed a bump on the upper inside of my thigh that i hope is just calcium. anyone experienced this??

First of all, it's not garbage. However, as the original article (not NYT) points out, more study needs to be done.

The real problem seems to be perineal pressure. But as we all know, we shouldn't be sitting on that part at all. We should be supporting our weight with our "sit bones," legs, and (to a lesser degree) arms. Thus, it would suggest that if your saddle fits you properly, this shouldn't be an issue.

I'll try to get my hands on the Huang study to see what sort of sample was used.

Okay, I have the Huang study.
I'll look it over at lunch and give you the lowdown later in the day.

doesn't happen on an Eye-talian bike

Well, I'll speak up. I've been pouring over the internet all morning looking for more information since reading this article; so I guess it scared at least one rider. What concerned me most was the comment that the seats can be dangerous even with the cutouts. I ride on a 2004 Specialized Body Geometry saddle, which is much better than the gel cutout that I had before, and though it only has an center indentation rather than a cutout. I can go more like a half hour without feeling any effects, and if I remember to scoot my butt to the side when coasting downhill I can ride for a few hours at a time without noticing it too much. I don't know if there is penile numbness going on because I don't *use* it while I'm riding, but there's definitely the tingling sensation that you get when your arm is falling asleep.

From the NYTimes article they recommended a saddle without a nose, and from another article I read, riders find the nose is an important component of steering. I don't know what to think. I found an article that talks a bit about bike adjustments to help... http://www.bumc.bu.edu/Dept/Content.aspx?PageID=7609&DepartmentID=371
and when I get home I plan on tipping down the nose of my seat because I've already raised the handle bars.

Regarding the dysfunction question above. I imagine it's hard for any of us to answer; after all it's most likely a gradual effect - not all of us ride once and become permanently erectilely dysfunctional like the extreme example. I can only imagine that we're all wondering - "Maybe it's because I'm older now" or "Am I just bored" or "Maybe this whole monogamy thing has it's drawbacks". Speaking for myself - I'm not dysfunctional, but it certainly doesn't work like it did a decade ago when I was in my mid-20's. Is that bike related?

If the seat has the possibility of causing this condition even mildly or gradually, I want to make sure I've looked into it thoroughly. I had been considering a Brooks, and now I don't know. The most frustrating thing about the article was that it gave us no answers, it just said that the bike industry was working on a solution that we would see soon. How elusive is that?

The seat on my recumbent is 16 inches wide.
Ride all day, nothing is numb...

After being a hard core roadie for 10 years I fathered two children. I have no problems with impotence but I am very carfull about my set up. I also make sure to stand up even on long base rides to give the boys a break. Like moving your hands on the bars this helps with any numbness. I do believe that a bike that is improperly set up can cause damage. I'd bet that more than 50% of men and women are riding bikes that are not set up correctly. I also chose a saddle that was more comfortable than one that was light a trade off that seems to have worked.

That's not what's going to happen. What's going to happen is that people are going to use this as an excuse to avoid cycling. I've already had instances in the past where I've offered to take people riding, only for them to make some excuse about now wanting to go sterile.

Do you know how many times I've had people paste me stupid articles like this? It's not quite into the hundreds yet, but it's not far off. They always paste it to me as if it's something new they're telling me. Boy does it get annoying.

The problem is that people are headline scanners. Their eyes drift over something like, "Cycling causes impotence" and that's all they take away from the article. They don't bother to read the text. I could write an article titled "Cellphones cause brain tumors" and a paragraph down write, "In laboratory rats after 20 years of constant exposure at an intensity 500x higher than normal" and tomorrow people would be telling me about the article they saw on cellphones causing brain cancer.

If you do ANYTHING that causes discomfort or numbness ANYWHERE, you need to address that. I'm just getting tired of the jihad against cycling.

I'm with you 100%.
I was being optimistic, hoping most riders would be able to sift through the scare tactics and just be prudent. I do agree with the article in that rates of impotence are probably underreported (certainly everyone is pretty forthcoming here on BF, but maybe not elsewhere?), and since we're all tough guys, we WILL ride through pain - my point was just (and this was addressed to my fellow BFrs) remember to listen to your bodies - some pain/discomfort is more red flag than others. It's always amazing what high tolernace levels some riders have! (I'm sure that covers any rider in the TdF, Giro or Vuelta)

But you are right on - it's the would be beginners and casual riders who will get scared off. It's a shame that the media love pumping this sh1te up so much, but I guess it sells......


On a more positive note, one of the photographers at the agency wherre I work just shot some nice photos of the Century Road Club Association ride in NYC on 10/1 (started in Central Park)....accompanied a story about how bike racing is on the rise, sales of bikes booming, thousands more riders inspired by Lance (It specifically talked about wall street types in NYC getting into it as weekend racers)

But I dunno if that story will see the light of day, let alone get the same big blah blah headlines..... :mad:

Damn Maxbender, you beat me to it. I have four bikes, and I'm glad two of them are recumbents. With the bottombracket above the seat, most of my weight in on my back, not my bumm. No chance of dangerous pressures.

I do agree with the article in that rates of impotence are probably underreported (certainly everyone is pretty forthcoming here on BF, but maybe not elsewhere?), and since we're all tough guys, we WILL ride through pain - my point was just (and this was addressed to my fellow BFrs) remember to listen to your bodies - some pain/discomfort is more red flag than others. It's always amazing what high tolernace levels some riders have!
Very true, and good advice.

Sometime in the late 90's, the Flite Ti I was riding had finally served its useful life. I went with a different type of saddle, to try something different. On the first ride, I noticed a prickly feeling in Mr. Happy. Kind of like the way it feels when a foot falls asleep. So I know it can happen. BUT, I ditched the seat after that first ride and got another Flite, and was fine after that.

It's understood that some level of discomfort goes along with cycling, but I can't imagine anyone riding for that long with a prickly johnson and not doing something about it. Maybe they do.

btw, that article has already been forwarded to me via email twice this morning. :p

there are quite a few posts on here from time to time about numbness in males - so it could be a real issue for some people. i've found that using a saddle with a bit of space between the sit bones reduces numbness quite a bit. i've also discovered how to position myself properly so i avoid putting pressure there, which was sometimes a problem for me in while riding in the drops.

i would expect the problem to be serious only if a person continually rides long distances with significant pressure. which would be very uncomfortable and you would probably know by the discomfort if damage was being done.

Sandra Blakeslee? FWIW, Sandra Blakeslee helped write one of my favorite books:

http://images-jp.amazon.com/images/P/0688172172.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

I think some people here are in denial about mounting evidence. I don't think these articles are out to get biking or discourage people from cycling. What's wrong with making consumers aware, even if the risks are slight? I think it is great that people are more informed about saddles, cutouts, etc. The section on cutouts potentially being harmful was interesting as well.

Has anyone here tried noseless saddles (BiSaddle, Easy Seat, etc.)? I'm interested to find out if they are legitimate saddles for serious recreational riding and long rides. Opinions are welcome.

I'm also wondering if these researchers are taking into consideration that most cycling shorts/bibs come with a little extra padding in that area...

"We make kids wear helmets and knee pads," Dr. Goldstein said. "But no one thinks about protecting the crotch."

:lol: I love that quote. And for entertainment value, the "perineum" should always be referred to as the "taint."

Anyway, I don't see any "garbage" in the article, and I'm glad that they're doing research on this stuff. I'd like to see some of that pressure sensor data for some of the more popular saddles like Selle Italia, Selle San Marco, Fizik, and Brooks.

Most of us don't ride enough to worry about this.

I have more of this problem- when I come back from a real hard century I'm just too physically and mentally worn out to really care about sex, regardless of the saddle.

i have a big comfotable old italia saddle , the all leather kind that mold to your rear. I hardly feel it on long rides :)

Everyone's talking about the article, but anyone have solutions to suggest? I hear how it can be important to put more weight on your pedals and handle bars, but that seems to be the answer for roadies. What about for touring, where they have the long upright saddle time? Anyone experience numbness or erectile dysfunction? Does anyone have experience with or comments about a noseless saddle? The Brooks saddle seems to be the saddle to beat for the long haul, but there's no cutout, anyone experiencing numbness or tingling while using the Brooks?

Personally, I was putting too much pressure on my wrists and developing cysts in my wrist, so I have to sit more upright now. The move transfered more weight to my butt, and I can't really go the recumbent route (as much as I'd like to) because I'm toting the kids around behind me. So I'm really interested in saddle selection from a perspective that this article has to offer. How do I know there's nothing to the studies they are reporting on, I don't want to find out the (not so) hard way.

Man, I must say it's disappointing to see so many people sticking their heads in the sand about this issue on this Forum. Folks just want to dismiss the issue out of hand. There's scientific evidence out there. In any case, I stopped cycling about 15 years ago because of penile numbness and the fact that my doctor told me to stop because of a painful prostate issue. That medical condition has resolved itself and I've kept in decent shape for an almost middle aged guy. Granted the NYTimes article wasn't skewed towards cyclists, but was solidly researched. Except for one thing: it didn't specifically address what products are trying to innovate a solution for this very real problem. Here's my list:

Performance Bike E3 Form (designed by Joshua Cohen, who's quoted in the NYTimes)
Selle Strike Series (they're expensive)
Saddleco Flow (reliability and comfort issues, allegedly....)

For a good roundup on the current state of saddles, go here:

http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4714

As that article points out, this controversy occurs about every 10 years. That is, whenever a scientist invests the time and effort to address the issue of fertility, genital health and bicycling. I for one, am grateful someone is investing time and money to keep me healthy and keep me cycling.

Try this, too:

http://www.mcmwin.com/saddle%20shop.htm

I have a Selle San Marco Era Luxe saddle.

I have only noticed any tingling or discomfort down there when I'm down in the drops for long periods of time, presumably rotating my pelvis forward and putting more of my body weight on my perineum. It's much harder to hold my body weight up off the saddle when I'm in the drops, as compared to being on the hoods. I'm sure some additional strength training for my abs and my supporting leg muscles would help me keep my weight off the saddle entirely.

After a long (30+ mile) ride I often have sharp pains where my sit bones protrude, but have never had any post-ride pain or discomfort in the important bits. If I had any kind of regular tingling or numbness down there, I would certainly be changing my fit the next day.

I tend to ride pretty aggressively, 18-23 mph, and try to consciously keep my weight over the pedals, not on my saddle, as much as possible. I'm sure the touring types have more of a problem, as has been mentioned. They aren't pedaling hard enough to use the pedals to support their weight.

- Warren

It's understood that some level of discomfort goes along with cycling, but I can't imagine anyone riding for that long with a prickly johnson and not doing something about it. Maybe they do.


I actually read a few posts on BF where guys essentially said 'yeah, I go numb regularly, it's a part of cycling like the occasional sore back or pulled leg muscle or bum knee', ie, put up wth it. :eek:

Of course, it's your willy, folks, but I'd sooner stop riding if the ol' flag wasn't gonna be going up the mast anymore. You did the smart thing cydewaze - felt a new saddle wasn't right and changed it instead of putting up with the discomfort.

I imagine just as some saddles are not comfy, riders also have to go with what works for their anatomy in terms of numbness (if any). I would never ride the same ass hatchet on my old english 3 spd because I sat more upright on that bike. On the other hand a wide seat on a racing bike where I am all aero would never work with a wide seat. well, not for ME, anyway - ymmv, of course.

to put this all in perspective, there are a LOT of perils in cycling - traffic dangers (not just being hit, but breathing in pollution crap), skin cancer from sun exposure, overdoing it , esp on hot days, hypothermia, etc etc etc. Being a mild hypochondriac as I age, I've asked more than one doctor if these and other factors should scare me off the bike. They ALL said the same thing (to ME, anyway) - the benefits of riding will outweigh the dangers.

I am sure this was mostly because I am overweight and relatively young (41), but also because they assumed I would be sensible about these perils (wear a helmet, ride carefully, sunblock, hydrate, etc etc). I don't see how this is any different. If you spend many hours at a time in the saddle you should make sure it's not a saddle that is hurting you; just common sense.

I actually read a few posts on BF where guys essentially said 'yeah, I go numb regularly, it's a part of cycling like the occasional sore back or pulled leg muscle or bum knee', ie, put up wth it. :eek:
Oh dear. Well, then maybe this article isn't such a bad idea afterall. lol!

This is an interesting issue. I have three bikes, but the only one that gets a ton of seat time is the roadie (the DH and dirtjump bikes probably dont really count as you dont sit for long periods of time). The bike has a selle italia flight trans am seat on it (with the cutout) and I have never noticed in pressure, numbness, pain, or tingling.

That said, I have been riding bikes for a long time (anything from bmx to road to downhill bikes) and I have noticed much less sensitivity in that region during 'other acitivities' than I used to hve. Over the last 10 years (keep in mind I am only 25) things have gotten to the point where there really isn't much feeling at all. Could this be bike related? I have asked some questions about this before, but the general consensus has been "some people just arent very sensitive". There is no performance effect whatsoever, but just not much feeling. Hmm.

Okay, I've finally been able to read the Huang article.

First, it does not contain any new research. It is simply a compendium of the state of research to date.

I hate to break the news, but it seems pretty clear that there is a correlation between bike riding and errectile dysfunction (ED). Not only that, but the correlation appears to be reasonably strong within the limits set by the methods.

But what still appears to stand, is that this (ED) is caused by damage to blood vessels in the 'taint. Therefore, you should not be riding for long periods with pressure on or around your 'taint (and 'taint area). This is not news.

If you go numb, or experience numbness, it's a problem! Get a better fitting saddle and/or adjust your saddle position so that it supports you on your "sit bones" and legs. NOT THE TAINT. It does sort-of stand to reason, that if you spend a long time putting roughly 60% of your weight on an area that you don't normally put it on, and that area happens to contain highly sensative microscopic blood vessels, there could be a problem - No?

But ultimately, this just confirms all the stuff I've been reading in these forums about saddle fit and comfort. Listen to your body. If it feels okay, it probably is, but if it feels like there's something not right - do something about it.

That being said, more research needs to be done, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah...

Maybe a chart can help sort this all out.

I found this one on the hollywood upstairs medical college website

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/unsuspended/ddef0e87.jpg

Lolanoose's links pointed me to the Selle An-Atomica which looks like a Brooks with a cutout. You really have to take a look at this video footage of the way the seat flexes in action...

http://www.mcmwin.com/cycling%20shop.htm#Video_clips

I have to say that this looks like what I think I want - A saddle that wears in like a glove, takes the weight from the sitsbones, that applys no pressure to the sensitive blood vessles, that still has a nose so I don't have to reinvent the way I steer the bike. Anyone have experience with this saddle, any comments or concerns based on what you can see from the links?

New York Times Article (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/04/health/nutrition/04bike.html)


Researchers have estimated that 5 percent of men who ride bikes intensively have developed severe to moderate erectile dysfunction as a result.



This article really cracks me up! If that 5 percent number is accurate, then it seems to me that bicycle riding PROTECTS you from erectile dysfunction. I say that because I have seen data suggesting that as many as 25 - 45 percent of men in the general population have moderate - severe erectile dysfuction at some time in their lives. Typical example of the press running away with a single or few barely meaningful studies or, even worse as we see in this case, an editorial (i.e. a personal opinion piece by a physician in the field). In 12 years in medicine I have YET to see the press get it right. I have to believe that the cardiovascular (and remember that the cardiovascular includes ALL blood vessels including those in the brain, extremities, and genitals) system benefits GREATLY from intensive exercise. At the very least you are probably PROTECTED from the risk of impotence from blood vessel disease at least as much as you are put at RISK by direct trauma from the seat. The only way to really do this study would be to get two large groups of male bicyclists, split them into two groups, and assign one group to the regular seats and the other to the "noseless" seats. Then compare the two groups after a few years of riding. Unfortunately, there is no way to "blind" the study (i.e. make it so that neither group knows what kind of seat it is riding. In an unblinded study you would still risk the possibility that the riders were changing some other factor like riding frequency as a result of riding the wierd new seat). Overall, this sort of news is just junk - alarmist and not particularly helpful. Ride a seat that is comfortable and keeps you on the bike (riding = healthy and potent). Try not to lose sleep over some MD's editorial opinion or some study in a medical journal.

Didn't those original studies have some major flaw where the non-cyclists were, as a group, much younger than the cyclist group?

i like the looks of that "Flow" saddle with the mesh springy seat. seems like a cool concept. the material they use looks like the same mesh they use on that popular office chair which was a big hit back in the internet bubble days. The Aeron chair.

anybody have experience with that?

so we need to use this now ?/

http://www.spiderflex.com/riders.html

im pretty sure this company is making profit right now .....
should buy their stock !

:D :D

Just something to query here: Is science always right? How can you design a study for ED and have a control group if ED is so prevalent in the general population?

I'd say, read this and take it with a grain of salt. If your dangly bits go numb find a different saddle.

I am a biomechanist, physical therapist and cyclist who has researched bicycle seat design at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and written the book Finding the Perfect Bicycle Seat. (see Amazon.com link below) I was also recently interviewed for the NYT article.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0971461929/qid=1110999460/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-3456758-1327937?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

or E-book format at http://www.roadbikerider.com/pbs_page.htm

In addition, I have developed a new saddle design that improves penile oxygen levels 4x over a traditional “teardrop” shaped saddle while riding a bicycle with hands in the "drops" (a forward, aerodynamic posture). This position is a much greater test of a saddle's ability to maintain blood flow, since more weight is shifted to the front of the pelvis as compared to more upright positions. The saddle is now available through Performance Bicycle Inc. (see link below)

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=20853

More information regarding the benefits and changes in the saddle’s design can be found at:

http://www.unlimitedsportsanalysis.com/Infopage.html


The main components that people need to look for when choosing a bicycle seat to avoid unnecessary compression of the pudendal arteries and nerves along the medial borders of the pubic rami of the pelvis (that can lead to ED) while cycling are:

1. Wide rear support surface to support the sit bones without sinking into the soft tissue between them.

2. Firm and moderate padding. Too much will push into the central pelvis and compress sensitive anatomy. Too little creates high pressure spots. Excessive amounts of padding or gel actually increase compression of nerves and arteries by displacing under pressure.

3. Flat rear support surface with a large effective sitting area that avoids upward pressure into the soft groin tissue.

4. Abrupt transition between the rear of the seat and the nose section to allow the rider to sit further back on the seat in a well supported position that avoids placing pressure on the arteries and nerves in the pelvis as they run forward along the borders of the pelvic bones.

5. No cutouts. Complete cutouts and deep central depressions may increase discomfort and pressure on the edges of the hole and decrease blood flow to the genitals since the arteries and nerves are actually located along the sides of the seat as the rear transitions to the nose, not directly in the center where the cutouts generally are.

These recommendations hold true for men and women, since both sexes share analogous artery and nerve distribution. As a result, women display similar artery and nerve compression from traditional seat designs – and often complain of similar discomforts and symptoms as a result. In addition, by supporting the pelvis on a flatter surface, the female genitalia is elevated above the seat to decrease pressure and irritation.

I would be glad to answer any further questions you may have about my book, saddle, or bicycling and its relation to ED in general.

Sincerely,

Joshua Cohen PT, MS
Joshuacohen1@hotmail.com

P.S. Keep in mind that erectile dysfunction does not mean sterility when you start naming off all the cyclists you know with hordes of children. The changes that occur in the penile tissues from long term arterial compression make it difficult to create and sustain an erection, but you can certainly still create a child even if you’re not a man of steel.

1. Wide rear support surface
2. Firm and moderate padding.
3. Flat rear support surface
4. Abrupt transition between the rear of the seat and the nose section
5. No cutouts.

Sounds a lot like one or more of the Brooks models. ;)

Al

It is important to evaluate the seat’s curvature from the rear to make sure that the sides do not drop off so precipitously that the center section presses up into the groin – hence the recommendation for the flat and wide rear. So, if you can find a Brooks seat like that, the other main differences would be:

1. Brooks still has a teardrop shape that follows the path of the arteries when you lean forward in the saddle. Some riders have told me that after many miles, the sides of the rear to nose transition region drop off more and it looks more like a “T” than a teardrop. This would be a good thing. But how many miles does this take? And can you be sure it will end up like that?
2. There’s no padding on the Brooks. That’s ok if it is all broken in and fit to your bum, but not good from the start. The E3 is available with thin gel pads or superlight foam.
3. It weighs a lot more than modern seat designs. The E3 Ti version is about 190 grams. I know some people don’t care about weight, but some do.