I am real sure he heard me... I slowed down and got 1:1 with him.
Yes, I was driving... had an early meeting this morning. Had my bike with me too... so I can ride at noon.
Anyway (and Serge is gonna crack up at this)... This cyclist was making his way up Genesee (a multilaned boulevard near my house) and I waited for him to cross in front of me before I turned right onto Genesee. He had just left the BL for a parked car on the side (and the BL disappears there anyway) and moved into the lane at the corner and nicely up to the front at a stoplight. He was being quite "vehicular" at that point. I thought he was going to track stand at the light... but no... he simply RAN the LIGHT. He was an older gent... perhaps a couple years older than myself... looked quite experienced, and then blew all my positive thinking by blowing through the light.
So when the light turned green, I cruised slowly beside him and said... "Hey man, not cool blowing the light... not very vc."
Now I know he heard the first part, but I would bet the "vc" bit went right past him... probably sounded "pc" or something to him...
Of course I didn't "yell" at him as much as talk to him. I was so disappointed to see an experienced cyclist blowing through the light like that.
Helmet Head
10-05-05, 10:30 AM
Nothing non-vc about blowing through lights - I see drivers of all kinds of vehicles do it all too often... :O
But doing it right in front of someone else like that... that's pretty bad.
scarry
10-05-05, 10:57 AM
Boy, you told him. :rolleyes:
TMX
10-05-05, 11:23 AM
So when the light turned green, I cruised slowly beside him and said... "Hey man, not cool blowing the light... not very vc."
Curious what his response was. I know what mine would have been.
-Bob
genec
10-05-05, 11:32 AM
Curious what his response was. I know what mine would have been.
-Bob
He was still thinking about it as I drove off... I am sure an FU might have followed... after all, I was a "darn motorist" at that point.
But this does touch on Serge's whole issue of education... Sorry HH, I just don't see how blowing a light cannot be "non-vc." If any other vehicle does it, it is clearly against the law... cyclists have no special "get out of jail free card..." so it is non-vehicular for them too.
I just thought it was funny for me to be complaining to the guy based on terms we use here... I have a feeling that "vc" meant nothing to him.
lws
10-05-05, 11:37 AM
against the law? Perhaps technically, but if the police don't enforce it, it's no different from laws against walking crocodiles in public without a leash.
jyossarian
10-05-05, 11:38 AM
Not everyone's VC. Some people are Asynch, meaning when they get to a red light and there's no cross traffic, they just keep on going. It's more efficient for them that way. Obviously, it violates the rules of the road, but not the rules of asynchronous traffic engineering.
scarry
10-05-05, 11:39 AM
Curious what his response was. I know what mine would have been.
-Bob
What would that be.....
Sorry sir, I can see by the bike hanging on your car that you are an authority on Vehicular cycling and I offer my sincerest apologies, it will never happen again. :roflmao:
sometimes I crack me up....
scarry
10-05-05, 11:40 AM
asynchronous traffic engineering.
Now that's a new one, I like it. :)
galen_52657
10-05-05, 11:51 AM
Some people just don't know when to quit.
Nobody gives a fly foo what you think about their cycling habits. If the road was clear I would most likely have run the light too.
As a point of fact, it's a lot easier for autos to pass you when you are moving on a bicycle. And since cars can take off from a standstill faster than bikes, it makes sense to get a little head start on them. I do it all the time. If traffic is too heavy to just run the light, I will clip in, check for the other cars slowing to a stop and take off just before my light turns green.
No harm, no foul
webist
10-05-05, 12:00 PM
Wouldn't this world be a much better place if all of us spent all of our time involving ourselves in what others were doing? I could worry about your driving, your riding, your diet, your exercise, your health, your vocabularly, etc. Someone else could tend to my behavior. Wait a second though. That's already happening isn't it? I've heard it refered to as the "Nanny State" when governments do it.
genec
10-05-05, 12:03 PM
Some people just don't know when to quit.
Nobody gives a fly foo what you think about their cycling habits. If the road was clear I would most likely have run the light too.
As a point of fact, it's a lot easier for autos to pass you when you are moving on a bicycle. And since cars can take off from a standstill faster than bikes, it makes sense to get a little head start on them. I do it all the time. If traffic is too heavy to just run the light, I will clip in, check for the other cars slowing to a stop and take off just before my light turns green.
No harm, no foul
OK but this kind of activity does support the negative image motorists have of cyclists...
"they all run lights... they are all over the road... etc"
galen_52657
10-05-05, 12:16 PM
OK but this kind of activity does support the negative image motorists have of cyclists...
"they all run lights... they are all over the road... etc"
IMHO, motorist's feelings toward cyclists are not influence by weather or not the cyclist runs traffic signals. People are aware of and will share the road with cyclists, or they think cyclists are an impediment to motor vehiclular movement. The motorists who don't want you in the road don't care how you ride. They just want you out of thier way so they can make it to the next traffic light in front of the next guy.
Nicodemus
10-05-05, 12:17 PM
He probably lives in the real world, and doesn't have a clue what VC means.
genec
10-05-05, 12:21 PM
IMHO, motorist's feelings toward cyclists are not influence by weather or not the cyclist runs traffic signals. People are aware of and will share the road with cyclists, or they think cyclists are an impediment to motor vehiclular movement. The motorists who don't want you in the road don't care how you ride. They just want you out of thier way so they can make it to the next traffic light in front of the next guy.
Sure, but one of the first comments that tends to come from motorist rants about cyclists is how unlawful we are...
Of course on the flip side, how often do motorists know the laws that govern cyclists on the road. I know every time I have confronted some motorist about some stupid move they just pulled in front of or around me... I usually find that the motorist has made up their own "law" about cyclists on the road. (usually along the lines of "they don't belong on the road... ")
Brian Ratliff
10-05-05, 12:26 PM
OK but this kind of activity does support the negative image motorists have of cyclists...
"they all run lights... they are all over the road... etc"
I think we may all be hung up a bit on the whole image thing. Who cares what moterists think of us? As far as all the complaints about cyclists running lights and things, moterists, in the next breath, will complain about the driver who doesn't accelerate from a light fast enough, or the car ahead of them who is simply following the speed limit. It's human nature to blame your inconveniences on someone else. If every cyclists in the US immediately stopped running red lights, moterists will find something else to complain about. Politically active moterists may even turn their attention back to getting us off the roads completely (i.e. eliminating legal vehicular cycling), reversing current trends.
Perhaps there is a reason cyclists sometimes run red lights, and perhaps we should be looking critically at that reason and tailoring the laws to take into account those reasons. It's entirely possible for two vehicles to share a road and operate on slightly different rules. Just so long as everybody knows what these rules are and the rules are well tailored to avoid conflicts.
genec
10-05-05, 12:28 PM
It's entirely possible for two vehicles to share a road and operate on slightly different rules. Just so long as everybody knows what these rules are and the rules are well tailored to avoid conflicts.
Sure like the couple of states that have passed that cyclists can simply yield to stop signs...
Iain Morris
10-05-05, 12:34 PM
He probably lives in the real world, and doesn't have a clue what VC means.
exactly.
BostonFixed
10-05-05, 12:36 PM
You should have tried to hit him and/or intimidate him with your car, that would have made him understand a lot better.
Mr. Miskatonic
10-05-05, 12:47 PM
OK but this kind of activity does support the negative image motorists have of cyclists...
"they all run lights... they are all over the road... etc"
Actions like that are not supporting such an image, they are an excuse for it. Laws are set up for automobiles, designed to keep big heavy 2 ton things from slamming into each other and causing any more mayhem than they already do. For bikes, those laws are massive overkill.
So bikes run a light when it is clear. Unlawful? Sure. But is it an even balance for the incidents of vehicular assualt that happen to so many? Does running a red balance out the ravings of those who take away our rights of transportation? Does it excuse the appalling attitude so many drivers have towards bikes? No. It does not.
What is telling is this: On another forum, someone posed the question: If you were suddenly a traffic cop, what illegal driving habits would you crack down on? Sure enough, more than a couple of folks said they'd crack down on the cyclists who cross reds. With cars jumping delayed reds, crossing at reds, barely stopping for stop signs, and performing behavior that can easily result in people being killed or maimed, these folks decided that the 200lb bike and rider was the most important thing to go after.
pseudobrit
10-05-05, 01:10 PM
IMHO, motorist's feelings toward cyclists are not influence by weather or not the cyclist runs traffic signals. People are aware of and will share the road with cyclists, or they think cyclists are an impediment to motor vehiclular movement. The motorists who don't want you in the road don't care how you ride. They just want you out of thier way so they can make it to the next traffic light in front of the next guy.
Motorists who don't like cyclists merely use any instance of a cyclist breaking or bending the rules to justify their prejudice. Much the same thing (inversely) happens on these boards.
oboeguy
10-05-05, 01:49 PM
I wonder if the Mary Poppins crowd that stops at every light and stop sign feels the same way about us "scofflaws" that I feel about those who ride with headphones (I strongly disapprove of headphones but freely run lights when "safe"). Dicuss. ;)
jyossarian, thanks for the Asynch comment. I've been trying to remember that term in the context of traffic engineering for the last several months! NYC runs on that. Vienna doesn't (I felt like an invader when I jaywalked there). Different strokes for different folks?
scarry
10-05-05, 02:10 PM
On this, Sir, we do agree. ;)
Actions like that are not supporting such an image, they are an excuse for it. Laws are set up for automobiles, designed to keep big heavy 2 ton things from slamming into each other and causing any more mayhem than they already do. For bikes, those laws are massive overkill.
So bikes run a light when it is clear. Unlawful? Sure. But is it an even balance for the incidents of vehicular assualt that happen to so many? Does running a red balance out the ravings of those who take away our rights of transportation? Does it excuse the appalling attitude so many drivers have towards bikes? No. It does not.
What is telling is this: On another forum, someone posed the question: If you were suddenly a traffic cop, what illegal driving habits would you crack down on? Sure enough, more than a couple of folks said they'd crack down on the cyclists who cross reds. With cars jumping delayed reds, crossing at reds, barely stopping for stop signs, and performing behavior that can easily result in people being killed or maimed, these folks decided that the 200lb bike and rider was the most important thing to go after.
Nicodemus
10-05-05, 02:17 PM
Actions like that are not supporting such an image, they are an excuse for it. Laws are set up for automobiles, designed to keep big heavy 2 ton things from slamming into each other and causing any more mayhem than they already do. For bikes, those laws are massive overkill.
So bikes run a light when it is clear. Unlawful? Sure. But is it an even balance for the incidents of vehicular assualt that happen to so many? Does running a red balance out the ravings of those who take away our rights of transportation? Does it excuse the appalling attitude so many drivers have towards bikes? No. It does not.
What is telling is this: On another forum, someone posed the question: If you were suddenly a traffic cop, what illegal driving habits would you crack down on? Sure enough, more than a couple of folks said they'd crack down on the cyclists who cross reds. With cars jumping delayed reds, crossing at reds, barely stopping for stop signs, and performing behavior that can easily result in people being killed or maimed, these folks decided that the 200lb bike and rider was the most important thing to go after.
+1
nova
10-05-05, 06:48 PM
Not everyone's VC. Some people are Asynch, meaning when they get to a red light and there's no cross traffic, they just keep on going. It's more efficient for them that way. Obviously, it violates the rules of the road, but not the rules of asynchronous traffic engineering.
Well it may also have been a case where the light wont change for bikes. Likly he didnt see a couple tons of metal to change the lights behind him. Ive had to have motorists pull up beside me at a few lights that wotn change for me on my bike. Hmm theres a question for you carbon fiber people how the heck do you get lights to change :)
genec
10-05-05, 06:55 PM
Well it may also have been a case where the light wont change for bikes. Likly he didnt see a couple tons of metal to change the lights behind him. Ive had to have motorists pull up beside me at a few lights that wotn change for me on my bike. Hmm theres a question for you carbon fiber people how the heck do you get lights to change :)
Not in this case... he was on a well traveled road with a light that actually changes to be green in his direction of travel (and usually frustrates me on a bike on the cross street). There also were plenty of autos to trigger the light.
I just happened to think he was a really poor example for other junior riders and to the driving public. Guess next time I need to be on my bike to talk to him.
scarry
10-06-05, 10:21 AM
Well it may also have been a case where the light wont change for bikes. Likly he didnt see a couple tons of metal to change the lights behind him. Ive had to have motorists pull up beside me at a few lights that wotn change for me on my bike. Hmm theres a question for you carbon fiber people how the heck do you get lights to change :)
This is quite common where I live. That's the main reason I run lights, and is technically allowed under the law. (Treat malfunctioning lights like a stop sign).
More&Faster
10-06-05, 11:40 AM
there's nothing wrong with running lights when there's no traffic coming. the law may prohibit it, but as long as you're not slowing anyone down or endangering anyone's safety, there is nothing at all wrong with it. it's how i ride all the time and i think it's the best way. it gets me where i'm going quicker which gets me off the road and out of people's way earlier, and at the same time, i avoid having to accelerate alongside cars which can be sketchy at times as someone mentioned.
cars can't do this because they'e in big metal cages with big long hoods which prevents them from seeing oncoming traffic nearly as easily as cyclists. not to mention, if a car were to do it, it would be a hazard to other motorists/cyclists because of the enormity of their vehicle. neither of those issues apply to cyclists, so i don't see why we should have to sit at lights when we can clearly see that there's no traffic coming.
if you want to sit at lights like a sucker, that's your business. but if you were to pull up alongside me and tell me my riding style was wrong, you'd get the finger.
CB HI
10-07-05, 06:37 PM
Hmm theres a question for you carbon fiber people how the heck do you get lights to change :)
If the sensor is adjusted properly, the Al rims are enough to trip the signal. Of course, in Hawaii, the sensors are all adjusted so that no bicycle will trip the signal no matter what your frame is made of.
Even had one sensor that my motorcycle was not enough to trip it.
catatonic
10-08-05, 01:17 AM
IMHO, motorist's feelings toward cyclists are not influence by weather or not the cyclist runs traffic signals. People are aware of and will share the road with cyclists, or they think cyclists are an impediment to motor vehiclular movement. The motorists who don't want you in the road don't care how you ride. They just want you out of thier way so they can make it to the next traffic light in front of the next guy.
You'll find they are this way because they feel you are being an obstruction deliberately.
It takes a while, but I found if you ride vehicularly, with only slight variances (I use a rather bizarre method for avoiding left hand turns that somtimes annoys people), that they start accepting you as traffic. I only dart to the front of a pack of cars on one light, where 90% of them are going left anyways, so no foul. I also don't try to make left turns on multi-lane roads whenever possible. And finally, I always stop at lights, and give adequate room for the motorists to pass.
Basically over the near year I have rode in this city, it's went from every fifth car screaming at me and being a--holes, to one out of a few hundred doing it, and actually had a few people recognize me when I'm in a nearby store and such...everyone all nice and friendly. Pretty much they all seemed to freak out about it at first, but after a while didn't think much about it either way and just passed me.
The only problem left are those who refuse to pass me, despite me screaming to pass...which results in me missing the left turn into my apartment (actually more dangerous to try to avoid the turn than just doing it)...so I have to deal with crossing this hell-hole of a road...usually it's just people who don't know how to deal with a cyclist, so oh well...irritates me to all hell, but I can at least understand how confusing it can be for them.
Ritehsedad
10-08-05, 06:36 AM
Have you ever driven a car and not broken the law at least once during your drive? You know, 26 in a 25, technically is breaking the law.
Aren't intersections the most dangerous place for cyclist? When I'm at an intersection, I proceed through when I feel its safe for me, regardless of the light (some intersections I'll end up sitting a green due to turning traffic). Sometimes I'll even activate the ped xing button & use the cross walk.
shokhead
10-08-05, 10:24 AM
Its all ***** backwards out there and nobody is stopping it. WRONG WAY RIDERS. And ya know that is been going on for so long now that the next young batch thinks its right. I'm on a 2 lane bikepath this morning and coming up on walkers and riders in my lane and i'm yelling on your left and going into the other lane as it is clear to pass and back into my lane. So i'm coming up on a high schooler riding in the other lane and i say {Because i'll be dammed if i'm passing the wrong way}on you left and slow and go by. Well he has a sh$t fit and starts yelling at me about passing him{on his left side} and it was to close and on and on. I turn and point to the right lane and yell back, you need to be in the right lane. It doesnt fun$en matter. Bah,Bla,Bla as i cant hear much anymore. Its out of control and the cops are not doing anything around here about it out on the streets. Tell ya what,i get hurt because of it and i'm sueing the sh$t out of them to make a point.
ivan_yulaev
10-08-05, 12:00 PM
Erm, Genesee is a large arterial, I wouldn't want to run the lights on that one :rolleyes:
He was wrong, but I don't see how this applies to VC. He was NOT practicing VC when he ran that light.
There is one light that I sometimes run on my commute, but it is on a downhill, making a left turn into a parking lot. If there are cars coming there is NO way you couldn't see them.
kwv
10-12-05, 09:35 AM
Some people just don't know when to quit.
Nobody gives a fly foo what you think about their cycling habits. If the road was clear I would most likely have run the light too.
As a point of fact, it's a lot easier for autos to pass you when you are moving on a bicycle. And since cars can take off from a standstill faster than bikes, it makes sense to get a little head start on them. I do it all the time. If traffic is too heavy to just run the light, I will clip in, check for the other cars slowing to a stop and take off just before my light turns green.
No harm, no foul
So do you think other road users especially drivers won't give a fly poo seeing you break the law by running the red?
And have you spoken to many other cyclists to know for sure that "Nobody gives a fly foo of what others "think about their cycling habits".
No harm, no foul??
Even those you might have harmed other cyclists chances of getting on with other road users by committing a foul by doing something that is against the law and run the red all the time.
And I guess from this do you know the different between right and wrong?
kwv
10-12-05, 09:43 AM
Have you ever driven a car and not broken the law at least once during your drive? You know, 26 in a 25, technically is breaking the law.
Aren't intersections the most dangerous place for cyclist? When I'm at an intersection, I proceed through when I feel its safe for me, regardless of the light (some intersections I'll end up sitting a green due to turning traffic). Sometimes I'll even activate the ped xing button & use the cross walk.
So for what reason do you think driving 26 in a 25 it is okay for you to also break the law by running the red or use the cross walk?
In other words just because someone breaks the law does this mean you have do it as well?
And from this I can see why Intersections could be the most place for cyclists.
kwv
10-12-05, 09:58 AM
there's nothing wrong with running lights when there's no traffic coming. the law may prohibit it, but as long as you're not slowing anyone down or endangering anyone's safety, there is nothing at all wrong with it. it's how i ride all the time and i think it's the best way. it gets me where i'm going quicker which gets me off the road and out of people's way earlier, and at the same time, i avoid having to accelerate alongside cars which can be sketchy at times as someone mentioned.
cars can't do this because they'e in big metal cages with big long hoods which prevents them from seeing oncoming traffic nearly as easily as cyclists. not to mention, if a car were to do it, it would be a hazard to other motorists/cyclists because of the enormity of their vehicle. neither of those issues apply to cyclists, so i don't see why we should have to sit at lights when we can clearly see that there's no traffic coming.
if you want to sit at lights like a sucker, that's your business. but if you were to pull up alongside me and tell me my riding style was wrong, you'd get the finger.
So there is nothing wrong with the riding style of riding against the red even those you said "the law may prohibit it"?
And why do you think if a driver broke the law it is okay for you to do the same?
Also running the red and giving someone the finger because they question you breaking the law I find it is strange that you think this is the best way to ride a bike.
kwv
10-12-05, 10:11 AM
On this, Sir, we do agree. ;)
So scarry shouldn't you, Mr. Miskatonic and some others agree with reality pushbikes are legal road vehicles and until such time the road rules are change to allow cyclists to run the red cyclists shouldn't break the law and run the red.
kwv
10-12-05, 10:17 AM
IMHO, motorist's feelings toward cyclists are not influence by weather or not the cyclist runs traffic signals. People are aware of and will share the road with cyclists, or they think cyclists are an impediment to motor vehiclular movement. The motorists who don't want you in the road don't care how you ride. They just want you out of thier way so they can make it to the next traffic light in front of the next guy.
"motorist's feelings toward cyclists are not influence by weather or not the cyclist runs traffic signals" and the research that proves this?
Also are you influence by an motorist who run the red and if so what is your feeling towards that motorist good or bad?
In other words if you are influence and think it is bad that a driver ran the red then don't you think a motorist would be influence and think it is bad that an cyclist ran the red?
Bekologist
10-12-05, 10:32 AM
my response would have been, "get out of your car and ride, you b^tch!"
I get disgusted by freakazoid drivers 'educating' me about my riding, weather you've got a bike on your car or not. You could be Lance Armstrong putzing around with Sheryl Crow in your muscle car, and I'd still tell you to f**k off.
shokhead
10-12-05, 10:57 AM
"motorist's feelings toward cyclists are not influence by weather or not the cyclist runs traffic signals" and the research that proves this?
Also are you influence by an motorist who run the red and if so what is your feeling towards that motorist good or bad?
In other words if you are influence and think it is bad that a driver ran the red then don't you think a motorist would be influence and think it is bad that an cyclist ran the red?
I dont know what research you looked at but i'll tell you this without any research,any time a cyclist runs a light or a sign or causes any problem,the people in cars that already hate us thinks and tells there friends that they all run lights and signs and causes traffic problems. When one of us screws up,we all are guilty in the motorist minds.
genec
10-12-05, 11:28 AM
Have you ever driven a car and not broken the law at least once during your drive? You know, 26 in a 25, technically is breaking the law.
Aren't intersections the most dangerous place for cyclist? When I'm at an intersection, I proceed through when I feel its safe for me, regardless of the light (some intersections I'll end up sitting a green due to turning traffic). Sometimes I'll even activate the ped xing button & use the cross walk.
Actually when I drive I tend to drive under the speed limit... I treat it just for what it is, a "limit," therefore I do not want to "peak" and slide over that "limit." Others obviously treat it as a minimum.
RE running the light... I only do it (on bike) when there are NO cars around to trigger the light. In the case I described there was more then enough traffic to trigger the light and no reason for this rider to jump the light... his doing that just reinforces the negative image some motorists have of "those law breaking cyclists... "
Mr. Miskatonic
10-12-05, 11:40 AM
So scarry shouldn't you, Mr. Miskatonic and some others agree with reality pushbikes are legal road vehicles and until such time the road rules are change to allow cyclists to run the red cyclists shouldn't break the law and run the red.
They should obey the law.
However, if they do not obey the law, it is at best a misdemeanor. It is not a balance for the appalling attitude all too many drivers have towards cyclists. It is definately not a balance for the horriffic actions some drivers take against cyclists.
If you are trying to equate riding a bike through a red light and driving a car through a red light as equally threatening crimes, you will get no sympathy from me.
genec
10-12-05, 11:48 AM
If you are trying to equate riding a bike through a red light and driving a car through a red light as equally threatening crimes, you will get no sympathy from me.
Just as a devil's advocate, I ask why not? There is really no difference between the two acts, only between the mass of the vehicles.
Now certainly I do agree that at times cyclists must run non functioning lights... but in the case I cited, this light was working quite well. It turned green just a minute later... there was no reason for the cyclist to run that particular light.
rjg001
10-12-05, 11:49 AM
I'm with the group that believes there are circumstances where it is acceptable to go through the red. For me, I will go through the red (1) if it is clear and safe to do so and (2) not a busy time for traffic (i.e., even if the cross street is clear I won't run the light during rush hour as there is the possibility that anyone could turn out of anywhere when a lot of cars are on the road).
I was just lectured by another cyclist Saturday morning for doing this. I approached an intersection of two four lane streets in downtown St. Louis before 8:00 a.m. The light was red, there were about five cars in sight (I actually didn't see the other cyclist), I was riding uphill and the temp was in the high 40's. I turned to the right at the intersection for a couple seconds to allow the cars to pass, and then cut back towards the crosswalk and across the street. I did so simply because I wanted to keep some amount of momentum as I continued up the hill and keep warm. He actually gave me grief an hour and a half later at another intersection where we both stopped by chance and he told me he saw me violate the red.
I also believe there are times it is safer to get a jump start on the green. This is when there are a lot of cars backed up next to me and no cross traffic. I would rather be past the lanes where a car to my left might try to cut me off with a right turn. Also, depending on where there are cars parked, I might feel safer on the other side of the intersection when the cars behind me start passing (for example, if there is more room).
I understand the concerns regarding the impressions this gives of cyclists in general and I have never approached a red or a stop sign without slowing and I have never failed to yield the right of way to a car that had it or simply took it from me. However, there are plenty of circumstances (early weekend mornings in particular) where the inefficiency and disruption caused by waiting for the green at a dead intersection outweigh the conern that I might give some driver that sees me go through the red in his rear view mirror the wrong impression.
scarry
10-12-05, 11:51 AM
So scarry shouldn't you, Mr. Miskatonic and some others agree with reality pushbikes are legal road vehicles and until such time the road rules are change to allow cyclists to run the red cyclists shouldn't break the law and run the red.
What's a "pushbike"?
Bekologist
10-12-05, 12:09 PM
genec, you're a driver that hassles bikers.
genec
10-12-05, 12:23 PM
genec, you're a driver that hassles bikers.
Yes, in this one instance I was exactly that... and I confessed as soon as I could get to a computer... am I forgiven, father?
I was just simply shocked by a peer (appeared to be my age) pulling the sort of stuff I typically expect from less experienced cyclists.
I was also shocked that I attempted to address a strange with the terminology that we so often banter about here... talk about "influences."
I won't do it again. Forgive me.
Bekologist
10-12-05, 12:33 PM
I won't do it again. Forgive me.
I didn't see anything penitent or concilatory in your original post, i must have missed it.
If you're taking the trouble to roll down your window to 'educate' a cyclist with some pithy comment, you're worthless cager scum in my book. I don't care if you like to bike.
Mr. Miskatonic
10-12-05, 12:43 PM
Just as a devil's advocate, I ask why not? There is really no difference between the two acts, only between the mass of the vehicles.
Mass...and power. This is not rocket science. A driver that misjudges an illegal blowing of a red light is very likely to kill someone, or at least damage a lot of property. A cyclist that misjudges blowing a red light is mostly in danger himself only. Even targets that can be hurt by bikes, such as pedestrians and other cyclists, can be much more easily avoided by the cylist, than by the driver. Typically the only option the car has is to slam on the brakes (or, more likely, just blast the horn).
I'm sorry, but this seems pedantic. Its like asking the difference between shot with a rubber band and by a rifle. After all, the only difference between the two is mass and power, right?
skookum
10-12-05, 01:36 PM
If you're taking the trouble to roll down your window to 'educate' a cyclist with some pithy comment, you're worthless cager scum in my book. I don't care if you like to bike.
Yeah right. If you're in a car you are stupid and evil, and if on a bike no laws apply to you, especially if you're a hu-person or a non member of the hegemonic culture.