Car Free in Denver Colorado?

[MAD Rider]

I want to go car free or at least get to the point where I can get a tank of gas to last a month or two. I live in Lakewood CO, work in Golden and go to school in Denver. I wanted to see what kind of things anyone has experienced in Colorado or colder climates. I’m not worried about the cold as much as the several feet of snow and what ways people have dealt with it. Also on a side note, I normally carry my laptop a school book or two and if I start riding to work I’m going to have to carry my work clothes with me as well. I’ve thought about panniers but I have a fixed gear that doesn’t have the option for them, so any suggestions you can offer me on that too would be nice.

[davidmcowan]

Mad Rider,

I'm not car-free but car-lite in Denver. I share a car with my partner that rarely ever leaves the street. (except of course on street sweeping days we move it to the other side!) I come from Minnesota so the idea of biking in snow isn't a big deal as long as you are properly outfitted. You may consider studded tires but more importantly look into different ways to layer your clothing so the cold doesn't bite you. The beautiful part about Denver is that even when it snows it usually melts off the streets and sidewalks in the same day. In MN, when it snowed it stayed there for roughly 8 months. (ok, slight exaggaration ;) )I haven't solved my bag problem yet but for my 6 mile commute to and and 6 miles from work plus another 6 to and from the gym I have been using a regular backpack. If I keep up the good work though I am thinking of investing in a Chrome Metropolis to keep things warm and dry. (especially after my commute last night which left me dripping wet). What I think is most important, above equipment and clothing, is a proper attitude. Last night, soaked to the bone, I was cruising down the street thinking about how much I loved biking, how much I loved commuting, how good I felt doing it, how much heavier my wallet is because of it..etc... and, even in those horrible conditions, I was smiling.

[MAD Rider]

Good thats the kind of stuff I am looking for. Please keep the comments comming

[chennai]

The beautiful part about Denver is that even when it snows it usually melts off the streets and sidewalks in the same day. In MN, when it snowed it stayed there for roughly 8 months. (ok, slight exaggaration ;) )

[snip]

Last night, soaked to the bone, I was cruising down the street thinking about how much I loved biking, how much I loved commuting, how good I felt doing it, how much heavier my wallet is because of it..etc... and, even in those horrible conditions, I was smiling.

LOL. Curiously, I was caught in last night's rain and had the same sort of wacky, joyful experience. When I arrived home, smiling, my spouse looked at me as if I had lost my mind. The kids put on their raingear to go have a romp outside.

I agree on the snow point. It's rare that the streets are bad for three days in a row. But a long commute can be a challenge when there's a new dump or ice on the road - shady spots. Sometimes - but not often and not for several days in a row - its a challenge staying upright; sometimes just forcing one's way through the snow takes some power. I tried studs a few years ago and didn't really feel they helped all that much on ice, and since ice on the roads is only now and then, they were heavy and clunky most of the time. (There may be better studded tires available now.) If you're counting on studs and have a single-speed, consider the frame's tire clearance. See below.

I have five comments. One, look into using the bus for part of the trip. Otherwise, based on general locations, it sounds as if you will have trouble doing the whole thing consistently. Weather, fatigue, cold, and tiresome drivers all take their toll. The RTD bus racks are EASY to use. It probably takes less than 5 seconds to load a bike, and I have never had a driver be anything but helpful. If some or even most days you don't need the bus - no problem - you can always ride.

Two, if you are going to carry books, clothes, computer, a good light with battery, and other stuff, think about sorting out a bike that can take panniers. I used a daypack for years, but I wasn't lugging all the stuff I'm carrying now. I also think that hitting the pavement with a loaded day pack increases the odds of a serious injury.

Greentree on S. Pearl (I think) has some used bikes that would make decent communters and can handle racks or already have them. Garage sales, too.

Three, check out HomeShop at the King Soopers website. Trailers are good, but delivery isn't a bad option for large quantities of heavy staples.

Four, consider moving to Denver or Golden.

Five, there's a bus to Eldora from Denver that gets you there right before first chair.

[biodiesel]

Get a rear rack and a cargo cache from Otivia.com
(A lockable plastic trunk that can fit laptop and a change of clothes.)

A big way to stay car free is to have options. On a day you need to stop and get groceries, having a bike that holds more than a six pack means you won't have to change the brand of toilet paper you buy based on what comes in single rolls. You can buy a case of soda not just a bottle at a time. You can buy clothes that don't need to get rolled up in a backpack.

You also need a way to get to a location fast and lighter.

My rigs currently.
The beast. A black Novarra Buzz with xtracycle. A toolbox chained to the bike means i can lock up gloves, fleece and rain gear and i can carry lights all the time without worrying about getting them stolen. I can carry cases (plural) of soda and shop at costco and still ride home. Around town i'm carrying the toolbox, a work bag, a gym bag and can still stop for groceries and takeout, and take my other bike to the shop and not walk home.
My Lemond. An older Poprad that's seen some touring. Rehabbing this one for city use. A cargo cache on the back to throw a change of clothes and lights in means i can take a bus or train into the city (tough with the beast) and zip all over town and change clothes for dinner and look normal (ish.) I have pedals that are half spd and half campus pedals so i can carry extra shoes or just wear street. My next move is to find a small lockable lunchbox of toolbox and convert it into a handlebar box.

My street bike. A go faster. Too fast and light to tour much unless it's a small Carradice and single change of clothes and a credit card. Which can be fun.

Next up? A cruiser and a single speed, though i think the single will either be a ridiculously high or a ridiculosly low gearing.

[becnal]

Fixed gear on snow and hills? I wouldn't do that.

I would use a mountain bike, and get tires with spikes for the winter. As for clothing, wear ski clothes such as gloves and goggles. Biking keeps you warm.

[MAD Rider]

Fixed gear on snow and hills? I wouldn't do that.

I would use a mountain bike, and get tires with spikes for the winter. As for clothing, wear ski clothes such as gloves and goggles. Biking keeps you warm.


I have a nice MTB I can use if I have to (04 Trek Liquid 25) but I want to do the MS 150 on a fixed gear so I'm going to try and ride it everywhere I go (on the street)

[schiavonec]

I've used gore tex mits and ride year round. (neoprene gloves w/ mits when it is really frosty) (I am not even close to car free though. 23 mile commute and the first bus option would put me at work to late for a bike/bus combo.

The only thing i can really add is to get a dedicated commuter with fixed basket type panniers and you can throw your backpack/ msgr bag in it as well as groceries.

I have the fold out performance grocery panniers, but I'm not really satisified (and wouldn't feel good about a 1500 laptop if something went awry.

fixed in show and hills is fine. Get a front brake though. I rode in frigid detroit weather on ice and crap roads and fixed is the best options IMHO.

Best wishes and I hope to be car less again some day. (maybe 1 for me and the wife.)

[nathank]

good info here...

i agree with schiavonec that fixed should be fine for snow and hills (with front brake) and Lakewood-Golden-Denver is not all that hilly anyway...

you can pretty much get by with any decent bike with the right tires -- i commuted a few years in a little snow/ice in Portland and then 1 winter in Massachusetts and then a few in Munich and the last 3 years in Munich have studded tires which are nice but not REALLY essential (if you got the $50-60 or so buy a front tire if you are going to ALWAYS bike) --- if you don't have studs, some off-road tires with decent knobs work GREAT in snow and lower the pressure to get increased contact patch area and traction.

otherwise, i really don't think Denver is all that cold/snowy. basically you get a few big snow dumps per year but if there's 2 feet of snow on the ground, the car commuters are going to take twice as long as you on the bike to get somewhere, so i don't see much of a problem. if the roads aren't plowed then Joe-rear-wheel-drive Mustang isn't getting anywhere and on the bike you should be just after the 4wheel w/studded-tires and about equal to the 4wheel auto crowd in terms of ability to ride in major snow/ice.

in the winter you should plan on about 10-15% longer commute time for normal days (compared to summer b/c of tires, cold, etc.) and about 30% slower for really snowy/icy/cold days... (car commuters also need about the same amount of additional time for scraping the windshield, slower speeds on snow, etc. so it's about the same tradeoff)

as far as carrying stuff: both a backpack (with rain cover) or panniers work well enough for transporting your basic stuff and additional capacity helps out like others have said if you want to do errands along the way and/or transport extra-big stuff. i commuted for years with a backpack, then used panniers and now the last few years my commute is a little shorter and i use a 35 liter backpack with a good raincover (also special design so it doesn't sit directly on my back so it gets more air flow and "breaths" better) instead as i find it is easier to hop into the grocery store and not have to lug around 1-2 panniers. but whatever works here as long as your stuff stays pretty dry.

oh, and you need reliable lights but i'm guessing you already got that covered?

good luck.

(i got it easy this year as my company office moved and now it's only 3 miles away! but the snow tires go on anyway in about a month as i do all my errands and activities in the city by bike)

[MAD Rider]

... in Munich and the last 3 years in Munich have studded tires which are nice but not REALLY essential...


Tell me about Munich. I am planning on moving there in 2 years and just see what happens. I'm in my last year of school for international business and marketing. I'd love to jsut pick up and go right now but I have bills and I'd like to finish school so that I have something to offer.

[nathank]

Tell me about Munich. I am planning on moving there in 2 years and just see what happens. I'm in my last year of school for international business and marketing. I'd love to jsut pick up and go right now but I have bills and I'd like to finish school so that I have something to offer.
Munich is all-round pretty nice. pretty much offers everything and a good mix. it's a "real" city but it still has a "small" feel at the same time. the core is awesome - basically a 10km radius from downtown is where almost everyone lives and all the companies and shops and destinations and the subway is also good so driving is absolutely unnecessary in the city (i was car-free the first 2 years which was a breeze compared to doing it in the U.S. -- i now have a car for my mountain bike adventures into the Alps where the train works for many but not all trips - for example i led a 3-day mountain-bike tour in the Dolomites in Italy last weekend where we drove to the area and then used the train for the "one-way-leg" for a 3-day round-trip tour).

crime is almost non-existent. honestly, it's one of the safest cities in the world - maybe THE safest (i think a few in cities in Scandinavia and maybe something in Switzerland might be safer). bike theft/vandalism is also relatively low (in 4 years i have had no bike computer or lights or whatever stolen from bike - something which happened every so often even in Portland --- my only incident is someone put a firecracker in my seat-bag last new year's and exploded my bag which i guess some kid thought was cool). as a male you can go to any part of the city at any time of night alone and nothing will happen. virtually no one has firearms. i haven't seen a gun in private hands since i've been here (other than police and military) compared with Texas (guns everywhere) or i even had a gun pulled on my in "tame" Portland!!

the city itself is unfortunately pretty flat. the Alps are about 60-70 miles to the south so it's about twice the distance from the mountains as Denver is. but for weekends there are all sorts of trains to the mountains which takes about 1 to 1:30 from downtown. by car is also 1 to 1:30. the city is built along the Isar River which is a large green area running north-south through the city with a greenway with bike paths along each side (i used to live next to the river 2km norht of downtown and am now DIRECTLY next to the river 3km southeast of downtown). about 5 km south of downtown (so still "in" the city) start mountain bike trails which head south (no major mountains but still decent "in-city" trails). i lead a weekly mountain bike group every wednesday night on these trails. for road riding Munich is also good as 5-10km and you are out of the city riding "in the country".

there is a high committment to green space and public common areas in the city so there are parks everywhere. i think the "rule" is that every place in the city should have a green space within 900meters or something (1/2 mile). pedestrians are also everywhere and there is a "pedestrain zone" downtown with all kinds of shopping, cafes and whatnot...

bike commuting is very very high and there are bike paths and parking everywhere. almost everyone owns at least one bike --- i.e. in an apartment you usually get a bike parking spot provided but no car parking spot like normal in much of the U.S. --- i personally do not like the around 30% implementation of the "Holland-style" bike paths but all-in-all Munich is great for bike commuting and car-free is EASY!!

as far a cultural stuff Munich is pretty much top... concerts, museums, opera and whatnot...

people are friendly although the German style is simply different (not so "superficial" friendly as American).

work attitudes: hard, efficient work is expected. the "look-like-you're-important" as in the US is not much of a factor so less office politics, less inefficiency and time-wasting. (on the negative side sometimes rigid and unflexible). in short: in the US QUANTITY is important (the guy who puts in 70 hours per week is the office manager's "star" even if the guy sucks and doesn't really accomplish anything: he's DEDICATED) and Germany is about QUALITY (the guy who works 70 hours per week must be pretty poor as he can't get the job done in 40 hours. what if they have a crunch and need more work? the guy who already works 70 can't easily work 30 more!) --- and even with the growin acceptance of flex-time in the US, there is still more value/acceptance in Germany for time of for family and leisure (e.g. 6 weeks vacation is standard!)

negatives: it's expensive although in different ways than in the U.S. for me as an American:
* rent is actually in my opinion cheaper than "big" cities in the U.S. (say Boston, San Fran, NYC, Seattle) although home prices are outrageous. basically a massive apratment/house/condo with private yard and garage is just not to be had here, but a "normal" apartment with basement storage is not so outrageous (although since Munich is the most expensive German city it is considered "super expensive" here)
* driving is expensive - taxes, parking, gas (currently about $6.00/gal)
* as it's the most wealthy city in Germany it has some of the "snobby" show-off culture of wealth with BMWs and expensive clothes but not so much different than many US cities (less than Denver i think)
* weather: winter is pretty mild with a few weeks of snow on the ground (i'd say average 5 weeks snow-on-the-ground per year). spring and fall are decent. but the summer leaves a lot to be desired: summer is much cooler than most cities in the U.S. with quite a lot of rain. as a Texan the lack of sun and "T-shirt and shorts" days is hard to take!

and while you can get by with English, learning German is not so hard and makes it much more enjoyable! anyhow, let me know if you want some more info...

P.S. i've been contemplating returning to the U.S. and Boulder/Denver/Fort Collins are pretty much top of my list. what do you guys think of these places as "car-lite" with an emphasis on great mountain biking trails in the area (i.e. decent trails you don't have to drive to and great trails for short drive/bus or long to-ride)

[jamesdenver]

i'm in denver, congress park and commute to SE side. not to familiar with lakewood, but i do know it had nice grid system and not a bunch of windy cul-de-sacs like newer suburbs.

also i know there's some good express buses that run between golden, west side area and downtown on weekdays should you need.

i'd just tranisitioned to winter mode today. got some leg warmers, i wear two light jacks, i use ski gloves when really cold, but just light gloves today

[MAD Rider]

P.S. i've been contemplating returning to the U.S. and Boulder/Denver/Fort Collins are pretty much top of my list. what do you guys think of these places as "car-lite" with an emphasis on great mountain biking trails in the area (i.e. decent trails you don't have to drive to and great trails for short drive/bus or long to-ride)


Well, I love Colorado in general. In my neck of the woods I back up to Bear Creek Lake and I have a 15 mile loop running around there.about 3 miles from here you can catch up with Green Mountain wich is a serious climb and a rewarding decent. There are a ton of trails runnig around the mountain and some decents where I have to get off my bike (even with my seat lowerd and trying to get my weight down as far as possilbe I would still go head over handle bar) about 6 miles up the road you can catch up with Mt Falcon, I have never road there but I hear it is great (I just started to really ride this year so I've been staying with the normal stuff before I try harder stuff, also started training on my fixed gear so next year watch out). I live very close to bike paths so if you want to get some road biking in too you can. there is a bike path that goes down to the light rail 9 miles and you can get to denver from there or you can take a series of busses (1 mile). So thats Lakewood.