Tonight I'm riding home from work, it's dark out, I'm about a mile from home on a residential street. The street has some rough spots near the curb so I'm maybe 5 ft from the curb instead of being closer to it. There is no oncoming traffic, and there's plenty of room for someone to pass me. A car comes from behind and passes me seemingly very close, maybe 1 ft. I catch up to the guy at the stop sign. He's about 70 yrs old with the wife in the car as well. I ask why he couldn't have cut me more slack. He says I should be by the curb and that he was staying in lane and not crossing the dividing line. I tell him Illinois law requires him to give me 3 feet, there was no oncoming traffic and he had plenty of room to go around me, and the dividing line in the street is not a solid line and he is within the law to cross into the other lane to pass me. He tells me to stay by the curb from now on and speeds off. This has happened on numerous occasions to me and tonight I just snapped. I mean WTF...this guy values staying in the lane more than my life? When I got home I contacted my local PD for what I described as wreckless endangerment. An officer came and took my information and to my surprise totally understood why I was upset. She is going to try and contact the driver and let him know he needs to change how he drives with cyclists present.
I'm a believer in VC. Should I have been further out in the lane to force the guy in the other lane? I think no matter where I was, except for the far right, he would have buzzed me.
Roody
10-09-05, 09:43 PM
I think I get buzzed less when I'm in the center of the lane initially. When I see a car is ready to overtake me, I move to the right IF I'm sure it is safe to do so. Maybe this shows them that I'm not trying to give them a hard time, but also I'm not going to let them push me around. But, really, I almost never get buzzed anyway, so I'm not sure I'm the right one to tell you.
This guy sounds like a real hardhead. Maybe a talk with the cops will shake him up.
Did you have good lights on? You're sure he saw you before he was right on your tail?
EXCALIBUR
10-09-05, 09:56 PM
Tonight I'm riding home from work, it's dark out, I'm about a mile from home on a residential street. The street has some rough spots near the curb so I'm maybe 5 ft from the curb instead of being closer to it. There is no oncoming traffic, and there's plenty of room for someone to pass me. A car comes from behind and passes me seemingly very close, maybe 1 ft. I catch up to the guy at the stop sign. He's about 70 yrs old with the wife in the car as well. I ask why he couldn't have cut me more slack. He says I should be by the curb and that he was staying in lane and not crossing the dividing line. I tell him Illinois law requires him to give me 3 feet, there was no oncoming traffic and he had plenty of room to go around me, and the dividing line in the street is not a solid line and he is within the law to cross into the other lane to pass me. He tells me to stay by the curb from now on and speeds off. This has happened on numerous occasions to me and tonight I just snapped. I mean WTF...this guy values staying in the lane more than my life? When I got home I contacted my local PD for what I described as wreckless endangerment. An officer came and took my information and to my surprise totally understood why I was upset. She is going to try and contact the driver and let him know he needs to change how he drives with cyclists present.
I'm a believer in VC. Should I have been further out in the lane to force the guy in the other lane? I think no matter where I was, except for the far right, he would have buzzed me.
Hang in there and keep riding.
77Univega
10-09-05, 09:58 PM
He says I should be by the curb and that he was staying in lane and not crossing the dividing line. --- The motorists we share the road with have had different influences from their original driver education. For many of them (us) it was hammered in that a driver must "STAY IN YOUR LANE". Sounds like your guy is from that era. Motorists need updates on their driving tests to show them their legal options when sharing the road with cyclists.
billwatson58
10-09-05, 10:01 PM
Did you have good lights on? You're sure he saw you before he was right on your tail? I use the Cateye HL-EL500 in front and the Cateye TL-LD1000 in the rear. The rear light is very bright...if he didn't see me he shouldn't have a license to drive.
Hey thanks for the encouraging words. I do plan to keep riding, and hope my original post doesn't come across as whining. It gets old though dealing with inconsiderate cagers that feel their right to the road is superior to yours.
lilHinault
10-09-05, 10:32 PM
I was talking with some fellow riders about drivers and their little indispensible pearls of wisdom they feel compelled to dispense about our riding today. They always have something to say about our riding but generally don't drive that well and get all offended when we tell them so.
EXCALIBUR
10-09-05, 10:38 PM
Hey thanks for the encouraging words. I do plan to keep riding, and hope my original post doesn't come across as whining. It gets old though dealing with inconsiderate cagers that feel their right to the road is superior to yours.
I understand how you feel. I had a similar encounter with a driver a few years back. When I confronted her about nearly killing me by cutting me off so she could enter a gas station, she replied, "You're a bike, you don't count." :eek:
Dchiefransom
10-09-05, 10:50 PM
I understand how you feel. I had a similar encounter with a driver a few years back. When I confronted her about nearly killing me by cutting me off so she could enter a gas station, she replied, "You're a bike, you don't count." :eek:
I'd have made a remark about it being safer on the roads if she was home barefoot and pregnant.
spandexwarrior
10-10-05, 01:33 AM
I understand how you feel. I had a similar encounter with a driver a few years back. When I confronted her about nearly killing me by cutting me off so she could enter a gas station, she replied, "You're a bike, you don't count." :eek:
Huh? Don't count because your on a bike?! I haven't had anyone come out and say it to me, but that is the attitude cagers have. There seems to be the sentiment that killing is okay if the person is on a bike. Which is weird. Maybe wearing a sign on one's back saying, "I key cars which get too close to me," is a thought. Not the best one, because you might have to make good on the promise at some point, and you'd probably do more jail time for nixing a paint job than the driver would for killing you. I wish there was a law where I lived about drivers having to remain so many feet away from my bike when passing. I've come close to making intimate contact with many a car mirror. VC is the best thing for this problem. Taking that lane makes the driver actually have to commit to going into another lane rather than playing "squeeze the cyclist."
EXCALIBUR
10-10-05, 03:03 AM
Huh? Don't count because your on a bike?! I haven't had anyone come out and say it to me, but that is the attitude cagers have. There seems to be the sentiment that killing is okay if the person is on a bike. Which is weird. Maybe wearing a sign on one's back saying, "I key cars which get too close to me," is a thought. Not the best one, because you might have to make good on the promise at some point, and you'd probably do more jail time for nixing a paint job than the driver would for killing you. I wish there was a law where I lived about drivers having to remain so many feet away from my bike when passing. I've come close to making intimate contact with many a car mirror. VC is the best thing for this problem. Taking that lane makes the driver actually have to commit to going into another lane rather than playing "squeeze the cyclist."
Those were her exact words. Yes, the thought of jail time was the only thing that kept me from reaching through the driver's side window and choking her out.:fight:
galen_52657
10-10-05, 05:23 AM
The guy is just an old jackass. You did the right thing if you got his tag and called the cops. Following up with the cops to see what they did and reporting back to the Forum would be cool.
I have contacted the local PD also about similar things and they say get the tag and call.
bshow1
10-10-05, 05:49 AM
Should I have been further out in the lane to force the guy in the other lane?
I would say yes, ride farther into the lane to avoid being buzzed. If you leave room to squeeze in, people will try to take it. If you don't leave room, they have to move left to pass you, like they would any other slower vehicle.
Try it and see if it helps. But choose your battles; if the conditions are too dangerous, find another route.
billwatson58
10-10-05, 07:26 AM
if the conditions are too dangerous, find another route.
I would not call this a dangerous street at all. The speed limit is 25, there are a fair amount of stops, it's tree lined with cribs worth 500K to over a mil (I'm a mile away - south of the tracks where the commoners live) The most dangerous part is it's not terribly well lit, and close to the curb are surface hazards. It's a major north south arterial street through town, so it does have more traffic than streets to either side.
nova
10-10-05, 07:30 AM
I would say yes, ride farther into the lane to avoid being buzzed. If you leave room to squeeze in, people will try to take it. If you don't leave room, they have to move left to pass you, like they would any other slower vehicle.
Try it and see if it helps. But choose your battles; if the conditions are too dangerous, find another route.
Or they just slam in to you and say they didnt see you and this is why bikes dont belong on the road. In the old mans case hed buzz no matter where you were in lane. Hes to cought up on staying in his lane to be safe he would go just far enough in to the other lane to pass wtih safty for his car and thats it.
billwatson58
10-10-05, 07:46 AM
....this is why bikes dont belong on the road. I
I see this thread is morphing into a VC vs anti-VC one and/or a ride on the street vs ride on paths or sidewalks. Bikes have a right to the road...it's a public space...I pay taxes that maintain the roads....can't we all just get along? I just had a funny thought...I'm should to try and ride on the sidewalks for my entire 13.5 mile one way commute. On second thought, no thanks. Can riding in the streets be dangerous? Of course. Are there ways to minimize those dangers? Certainly. Driving is dangerous too. 40,000+ car deaths a year doesn't seem to be discouraging a lot of cagers.
Bikepacker67
10-10-05, 07:59 AM
...this is why bikes dont belong on the road.
Yikes!
I think it's more likely that a certain poster doesn't belong on this forum!
Nicodemus
10-10-05, 08:02 AM
I understand your frustration.
I remember thinking the exact same thing after a double-dooring in the UK: "I'm fed up!" I left the country. Sod it. Any culture that is so backwards and car-loving and barbaric that this is common practice doesn't deserve the benefit of my presence. I'm not going to change the system within my lifetime, so I might as well go somewhere where they DO have a clue.
I understand that you don't necessarily feel the same way, and aren't considering leaving your country. But you have to admit - you're not "fed up" enough yet :p
Bikepacker67
10-10-05, 08:10 AM
I understand your frustration.
I remember thinking the exact same thing after a double-dooring in the UK: "I'm fed up!" I left the country. Sod it. Any culture that is so backwards and car-loving and barbaric that this is common practice doesn't deserve the benefit of my presence. I'm not going to change the system within my lifetime, so I might as well go somewhere where they DO have a clue.
Boy, you sure picked the right place (http://www.eaue.de/winuwd/78.htm)!
Dchiefransom
10-10-05, 08:42 AM
Yikes!
I think it's more likely that a certain poster doesn't belong on this forum!
It's part of an entire sentence, and is put forth as what a driver would say if he/she hit a cyclist riding out into the lane to avoid a crappy road surface on the right.
nova
10-10-05, 09:17 AM
Yikes!
I think it's more likely that a certain poster doesn't belong on this forum!
as i said i should have put qoutes around it like this
Or they just slam in to you and say they didnt see you andsay "this is why bikes dont belong on the road." I thought i had orrignally typed say infact i know i did but it just didnt come up. Key board needs cleaned badly and its getting that cleaning after this post. Also it shoudl have been at least some what obvious was saying this is something a driver might say after hitting you. At least i sumed it would be.
timmhaan
10-10-05, 09:26 AM
there is a huge difference in how it feels to drive a car and how it feels to be on a bike with cars surrounding you. from his point of view, he probably felt perfectly safe doing what he was doing. that's the problem with a lot of drivers. they don't put themselves in your shoes. they don't say to themselves "maybe this guy doesn't like a 2 ton machine passing within 12 inches of him". they're just self absorbed pieces of human trash. glad to hear the police will talk to him. i hope they take his license and beat him with their police sticks.
emilymildew
10-10-05, 09:39 AM
I agree that a lot of this kind of thing is ignorance.
I once got into it with a guy who buzzed close to me and we did a back and forth for a few blocks. Finally we stopped at a light and I said, "Let me just say one thing," and he nodded and I explained that when he gets that close I get afraid that I'm going to fall under his wheels or get hit and it's my fear OF MY LIFE that makes me flip out and scream when someone gets that close.
He nodded and told me to have a nice day.
So sometimes all people need is to know that there are humans on bikes who have families and lives and friends and loved ones who deserve to live. Use your knowledge - tell your friends, your family members, your loved ones. Make them see every cyclist as YOU, not just as an obstacle between them and their destination.
nova
10-10-05, 09:55 AM
It's part of an entire sentence, and is put forth as what a driver would say if he/she hit a cyclist riding out into the lane to avoid a crappy road surface on the right.
Yeh i see where the confusion came from though. The post i made or thought i ade right after the first qoute never went through. Normaly forum lags and i go to reply again and double post. So i figured it would do this this time as well guess not heh.
But still yeh it was part of a entire sentence and i should have put qoutes around it as well.
jfmckenna
10-10-05, 10:14 AM
Your nothing more than a turtle. Some drivers will hit you on purpose, some drivers will hit you if they cannot move around you or have to slow down, some drivers will avoid you at all cost, some drivers will stop and pick you up and place you back in the woods where it is save.
Bikepacker67
10-10-05, 10:27 AM
Just an Idea, but maybe we all need to start wearing jersey's with....
1. A family picture laser printed on the back with wording in big letter's that say "Hit me and I will be missed"
2. A Jersey with a list of our goals and ambitions on the back and then big wording that says...."Hit me and my dreams go with me"
3...etc..etc...
I think it would be better to appeal to their own selfishness, with jerseys such as:
I'll Leave A Dent
or:
Next Of Kin, Lawyer
Roody
10-10-05, 10:38 AM
I agree that a lot of this kind of thing is ignorance.
I once got into it with a guy who buzzed close to me and we did a back and forth for a few blocks. Finally we stopped at a light and I said, "Let me just say one thing," and he nodded and I explained that when he gets that close I get afraid that I'm going to fall under his wheels or get hit and it's my fear OF MY LIFE that makes me flip out and scream when someone gets that close.
He nodded and told me to have a nice day.
So sometimes all people need is to know that there are humans on bikes who have families and lives and friends and loved ones who deserve to live. Use your knowledge - tell your friends, your family members, your loved ones. Make them see every cyclist as YOU, not just as an obstacle between them and their destination.
This is a nice way of explaining it to cagers. I hope I remember this.
I think it's funny when the occasional rude and impatient motorist honks or yells at you because he thinks you pulled over too slowly. Then he wants to stop and argue with you for five minutes about what happened. What's funny is that he was in such a hurry a minute ago, and mad because you were "holding up traffic." Now he wants to spend time arguing while the traffic backs up behind him! :D
Another thing I've noticed is that when I'm in a foul mood, I have arguments and confrontations with cagers. When I'm in a good mood (most of the time), there are few if any arguments. Come to think of it, Bikeforums is pretty much the same!
Brian Ratliff
10-10-05, 10:43 AM
Just an Idea, but maybe we all need to start wearing jersey's with....
1. A family picture laser printed on the back with wording in big letter's that say "Hit me and I will be missed"
2. A Jersey with a list of our goals and ambitions on the back and then big wording that says...."Hit me and my dreams go with me"
3...etc..etc...
I was thinking more along the lines:
"Give me a minute, you can't be in that much of a hurry!"
Big bold letters in fuorescent writing.
nova
10-10-05, 11:32 AM
I think it would be better to appeal to their own selfishness, with jerseys such as:
I'll Leave A Dent
or:
Next Of Kin, Lawyer
Lol
Both might work well.
trackhub
10-10-05, 01:05 PM
Excellent choice of lights, BillWatson. I started using the Cateye HL-EL500 when they hit the market last year. In short, it's "the headlight I've been waiting for". I've had people mistake it for a motorcycle headlamp. Haven't tried the Cateye tail lamp. Does it require seatpost mounting , or can it be clipped to a bag? Anyway, it doesn't sound like you did anything wrong.
Most riders with a few years experience have run into this sort of thing at least once. Here's one of my own personal experiences:
Waltham, MA. Intersection of Main street, and stow street, heading east after the route 128 overpass. Big intersection, lighted. Two lanes, one for going straight ahead, one for right turn only. I want to head straight ahead, so I am in the straight ahead lane. It is mid afternoon, on Sunday. No one else in this lane, or the right turn land at the moment.
Soooo,,, From behind me comes a sound of horn. Why, it's an Oldsmobile cutlass, of mid-80's vintage. The driver, female, is very cheesed off. The passenger, male, just has on a death look. The light is red. More horn,longer this time, and some sort of hand gesture in the window. Then, very quickly, the olds veers over into the right turn only lane. It pulls up, the window goes down, and this middle-aged woman with a beehive hairdo, and the leathery face of a lifetime smoker, glares at me, and screeches "You're in the wrong lane, you should be over there!!" No indication of what she meant by "over there". The male companion, (lots of beer muscle, and a big mouth) tells me to "get on the F***in sidewalk!"
The light turns green. They rumble off, with squealing rubber, clattering valves, and lots of blue smoke, heading straight ahead down Main st. from the right turn only lane. I proceed, blowing the whole thing off as just another encounter with someone with IQ lower then their age.
So, who was wrong here? A lane for straight ahead, a lane for right turn only,,, Something difficult about this concept? I was hoping a cop was in the parking lot of the office building that's one block further, but no, not that day. Too bad.
Nicodemus
10-10-05, 01:18 PM
Boy, you sure picked the right place (http://www.eaue.de/winuwd/78.htm)!
Hey, that's great! I'm bookmarking that. In fact, think I might use it to make a point in another thread, tee hee!
The saddest thing is that I'm leaving in a couple of months and don't know where I'm going next. As much as I'm desperate to get out of this country right now, I am certainly going to miss this. :(
Helmet Head
10-10-05, 04:36 PM
I'm a believer in VC. Should I have been further out in the lane to force the guy in the other lane? I think no matter where I was, except for the far right, he would have buzzed me.
Yes, being further out in the lane reduces buzzing. The rule is that you should use the full lane, riding "centerish", unless the lane is wide enough to be safely shared. If sharing means they have to pass you too closely, then the lane is NOT wide enough to be safely shared, by definition.
If you ride far enough right to give them enough room to squeeze into the lane with you, then they will think they can squeeze in with you, and you should be further right.
If you ride further left, such that they have to move left into the adjacent lane to pass, then they generally will. Some people here claim that they get buzzed even more often when they do that, but I don't understand that, because I do that day after day, week after week, month after month, without getting buzzed, Sure, it might happen once every few months, but I'm much more likely to get buzzed if I inadverdently ride too far right and leave enough room for them to squeeze in with me. In fact, I can virtually guarantee a close pass when I do that, and I never blame the driver, because I understand I'm inviting drivers to squeeze in with me if I'm leaving enough room in the lane for them to fit.
Helmet Head
10-10-05, 04:45 PM
I think I get buzzed less when I'm in the center of the lane initially. When I see a car is ready to overtake me, I move to the right IF I'm sure it is safe to do so. Maybe this shows them that I'm not trying to give them a hard time, but also I'm not going to let them push me around. But, really, I almost never get buzzed anyway, so I'm not sure I'm the right one to tell you.
This guy sounds like a real hardhead. Maybe a talk with the cops will shake him up.
Did you have good lights on? You're sure he saw you before he was right on your tail?
Exactly.
Roody tends to ride positioned centerish in the lane, and "almost never gets buzzed anyway". Coincidence? I don't think so...
EXCALIBUR
10-10-05, 07:50 PM
Haven't tried the Cateye tail lamp. Does it require seatpost mounting , or can it be clipped to a bag?
The Cat Eye TL LD1000 tail light can be mounted with the provided seat post clamp. It can also be clipped onto a back pack or pair of shorts. It is by far the brightest tail light I have ever used.
chipcom
10-10-05, 08:06 PM
Soooo,,, From behind me comes a sound of horn. Why, it's an Oldsmobile cutlass, of mid-80's vintage. The driver, female, is very cheesed off. The passenger, male, just has on a death look. The light is red. More horn,longer this time, and some sort of hand gesture in the window. Then, very quickly, the olds veers over into the right turn only lane. It pulls up, the window goes down, and this middle-aged woman with a beehive hairdo, and the leathery face of a lifetime smoker, glares at me, and screeches "You're in the wrong lane, you should be over there!!" No indication of what she meant by "over there". The male companion, (lots of beer muscle, and a big mouth) tells me to "get on the F***in sidewalk!"
The light turns green. They rumble off, with squealing rubber, clattering valves, and lots of blue smoke, heading straight ahead down Main st. from the right turn only lane. I proceed, blowing the whole thing off as just another encounter with someone with IQ lower then their age.
I enjoy ignoring them, pretending I am deaf and like just noticed them next to me screaming, then I do some sign language stuff - no I don't know much sign, but I can usually work in an 'American Bird'.
"No habla, gringo" is entertaining as well. ;)
spandexwarrior
10-10-05, 08:09 PM
there is a huge difference in how it feels to drive a car and how it feels to be on a bike with cars surrounding you. from his point of view, he probably felt perfectly safe doing what he was doing. that's the problem with a lot of drivers. they don't put themselves in your shoes. they don't say to themselves "maybe this guy doesn't like a 2 ton machine passing within 12 inches of him". they're just self absorbed pieces of human trash. glad to hear the police will talk to him. i hope they take his license and beat him with their police sticks.
Get this, though- in my experience, they don't want to put themselves in our shoes. Let's get real here. Most people only protect activities when they have a personal stake in it. As long as gas is affordable, these drivers can never concede of a need for themselves to bike. I had a little discussion with someone about bikes v. cars. This person said, "Well, driving is progress." As if speed in transit were the only issue, and anything slower was backward. These people who think this make no account of how much they have to work to pay for their vehicle. This is why we are treated like crap. Drivers see biking as backward. They also don't understand why anyone would put themselves in harms way. BECAUSE WE ARE TAKING A RISK THEY FEAR US. Fear can make people do things they wouldn't ordinarily do. Some people have contempt for people who in their mind are doing something risky and stupid. So they flaunt that contempt at the expense of our lives. Also there is little consequence for them should they do things that are dangerous to us. This is because, the majority of society sees driving as "progress," smart and efficient. The negative aspects of driving never enters these people's minds because it is never discussed in any public forum. So the real message drivers want to send with us is, "Get with the crowd, quit slowing me down, or I will use my superior status to make you think twice about biking again."
spandexwarrior
10-10-05, 08:20 PM
CARS PASSING BIKES -- CLOSE ENCOUNTERS & WRECKS
By Steven M. Magas, Esq.
About a year ago I was asked to contribute a chapter to a new book entitled Bicycle Accident Reconstruction and Litigation. The book has just been released and, while you won't find it on the New York Times bestseller list, it does offer some fascinating insights into bike accident litigation from all over the country.
One of the most common bike accident scenarios involves motorists colliding with cyclists while overtaking them. It's not difficult to understand why. My experience is that motorists perceive that lane lines are absolute and believe that they cannot cross them when passing cyclists. If they can squeeze between you and the lane line, they will do so no matter how close they come to you. Once they break the plane and cross the lane line they will usually allow sufficient room to pass. [I modestly call this the "Magas Phenomenon."] In Effective Cycling," John Forester recommends riding in the center of narrow lanes and just to the right of cars in wide lanes in order to encourage the motorist leave the lane to pass you and to give you some room to dive if you need it!. Cars still manage to frequently collide with cyclists during the execution of the passing maneuver and in Bicycle Accident Reconstruction and Litigation there is a virtual catalog of dozens of reported cases on this issue.
An interesting case arose in Idaho in the 1960's. A 14 year old boy was riding on a narrow gravel shoulder of a two lane 24 foot wide highway. A motorist came upon the boy at 55 mph. A disinterested witness said the boy appeared to be having problems controlling his bike on the gravel and said the motorist neither slowed nor steered left. As the motorist approached, the bike operator sweved left onto the roadway in front of the car and was killed. The point of impact was one to two feet onto the roadway. The court ruled that the cyclist was entitled to use the right edge of the roadway as a matter of law since Idaho law, like Ohio law, requires cyclists to ride as far to the right as is practicable. The court stated that a motorist may not assume that a bike operator travelling on the berm will stay on the berm since he has a legal right to ride on the roadway. Kelley v. Bruch (Id. 1966), 415 P.2d 693.
In a 1987 Ohio case a motorist argued that he lost the cyclist "in the sun" while passing The jury, for some unknown reason, found the cyclist to be 20% negligent when the motorist struck the cyclist. The court determined that the motorists argument was not a legal excuse to hit the cyclist and found that the jury made a mistake when assigning any blame for the accident to the cyclist. Howard v. McKitrick, Lexis Slip Opinion, Ohio App., July 2, 1987.
In Ohio, a passing motorist must sound a horn before passing and the motorist is negligent if he fails to do so. However, courts have also held that a horn blown in an untimely fashion which scares a cyclist and causes the cyclist to move unexpectedly or lose control is also negligence. In one case a cyclist heard a horn close by, turned to look and moved left into a passing car. The jury found the cyclist to be 95% responsible for the wreck, but the trial judge reversed the jury's findings and found the motorist to be 75% responsible!
The bottom line...keep an eye in your mirror and watch out for those passing motorists. Take up your fair share of the roadway and make motorists get into the other lane to pass you. Drive defensively people....as a famous TV character used to say..."Let's be careful out there...."
ch0mb0
10-10-05, 08:35 PM
Many of the elderly have become used to driving a certain way over the years, and they'll find it hard to ever change. And their reflexes aren't what they used to be - I'd feel better giving that guy room and letting him get out in front where I can see him.
CB HI
10-10-05, 08:39 PM
Or they just slam in to you and say they didnt see you and this is why bikes dont belong on the road. In the old mans case hed buzz no matter where you were in lane. Hes to cought up on staying in his lane to be safe he would go just far enough in to the other lane to pass wtih safty for his car and thats it.
And if you are farther in the lane before he tries to squeeze by, you now have more room to the right to give yourself that shy distance as he begins to move by.
Cyclaholic
10-10-05, 08:48 PM
I was thinking more along the lines:
"Give me a minute, you can't be in that much of a hurry!"
Big bold letters in fuorescent writing.
How about "all arguments settled with Smith & Wesson"
or - "you honk, I shoot"
or - "you hit me, I'll hit YOU! (not your car)"
my favorite - "$3 a gallon? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA"
Cyclaholic
10-10-05, 09:10 PM
Exactly.
Roody tends to ride positioned centerish in the lane, and "almost never gets buzzed anyway". Coincidence? I don't think so...
Helmet Head, I ride in the middle of the lane when I have to, I even push over towards the far side of the grease line - more than the middle of the lane - to avoid nasty manholes right in the middle, and I get buzzed AND honked/yelled at, as opposed to just buzzed. The problem is not VC, the problem is ignorant selfish, negligent drivers that deserve a clublock to a fender (or back of the head)
In the morning it's a lot worse if Im running late because it seems that so are the motorists, if I leave earlier the motorists are a bit more relaxed/less inclined to buzz me, I assume because they're running on time. In the evenings I notice the idiotic behaviour is nowhere near as frequent but the ones that have a problem are far more aggressive, unlike morning peak when thy seem to just want to speed to work in the evenings they have the time to pull over and take the day's frustrations out on you with a tire iron..... not a definitive study, just my experience.
whatever6304
10-10-05, 09:11 PM
Many of the elderly have become used to driving a certain way over the years, and they'll find it hard to ever change. And their reflexes aren't what they used to be - I'd feel better giving that guy room and letting him get out in front where I can see him.
Second that. No offense to any of you seniors, but the elderly (around here, at least) are waaayyy more concerned about staying in their lane than they are about responding to anything on the road.
Cyclaholic
10-10-05, 09:13 PM
Tonight I'm riding home from work, it's dark out, I'm about a mile from home on a residential street. The street has some rough spots near the curb so I'm maybe 5 ft from the curb instead of being closer to it. There is no oncoming traffic, and there's plenty of room for someone to pass me. A car comes from behind and passes me seemingly very close, maybe 1 ft. I catch up to the guy at the stop sign. He's about 70 yrs old with the wife in the car as well. I ask why he couldn't have cut me more slack. He says I should be by the curb and that he was staying in lane and not crossing the dividing line. I tell him Illinois law requires him to give me 3 feet, there was no oncoming traffic and he had plenty of room to go around me, and the dividing line in the street is not a solid line and he is within the law to cross into the other lane to pass me. He tells me to stay by the curb from now on and speeds off. This has happened on numerous occasions to me and tonight I just snapped. I mean WTF...this guy values staying in the lane more than my life? When I got home I contacted my local PD for what I described as wreckless endangerment. An officer came and took my information and to my surprise totally understood why I was upset. She is going to try and contact the driver and let him know he needs to change how he drives with cyclists present.
I'm a believer in VC. Should I have been further out in the lane to force the guy in the other lane? I think no matter where I was, except for the far right, he would have buzzed me.
I really enjoy going to Critical Mass and corking intersections after a few of these sort of incidents. It's a better release of anger and frustration (for me) than acting on the rage at the time of the incident.
mac
10-10-05, 11:22 PM
A car comes from behind and passes me seemingly very close, maybe 1 ft. I ask why he couldn't have cut me more slack. He says I should be by the curb and that he was staying in lane and not crossing the dividing line. this guy values staying in the lane more than my life?
I've been in the same situation here as well. I was on an empty residential street with plenty of room for cars to go around me, even drive completely in the oncoming lane if they wanted to. But this middle-aged balding hippie barely squeezes by me. I yelled out, "HEY!" and he stopped. I rode up to him and said loudly, "You almost hit me!" His response was slurred as if he was still on the reefer but said that it is dangerous for him to cross over the center divider and I should have gotten out of his way. :mad: I was on my way home from a ride and was too tired to lay into this a-hole so he just drove away.
spandexwarrior
10-10-05, 11:29 PM
...this middle-aged woman with a beehive hairdo, and the leathery face of a lifetime smoker, glares at me, and screeches "You're in the wrong lane, you should be over there!!" No indication of what she meant by "over there". The male companion, (lots of beer muscle, and a big mouth) tells me to "get on the F***in sidewalk!"
This reminds me of something funny. I was coming home from Critical Mass, riding with 3 other people, one of whom was a teenage cyclist. We were going fast, taking the full lane since there were three of us, and we were on a very narrow street. This car comes up behind us and starts honking frantically. Well, this teenager with us yells at the driver, "Get on the sidewalk!!"
mac
10-10-05, 11:30 PM
How about "all arguments settled with Smith & Wesson"
or - "you honk, I shoot"
or - "you hit me, I'll hit YOU! (not your car)"
These are better. We must take a position of strength, not weakness. "Oh please don't hurt little ole' me or my mommy & daddy will be really sad." Weakness only encourages you to be preyed upon. Remember the wimps in gradeschool who kept cowering down to the bully? Well they got picked on even more. No, be assertive, be aggressive, but do realize we are in, basically, our underwear while they are encased in 2+ tons of steel.
UmneyDurak
10-11-05, 12:07 AM
--- The motorists we share the road with have had different influences from their original driver education. For many of them (us) it was hammered in that a driver must "STAY IN YOUR LANE". Sounds like your guy is from that era. Motorists need updates on their driving tests to show them their legal options when sharing the road with cyclists.
Speaking of driving tests. I remember that in that DMV book it actually had an example of what to do when there is incomming car and cyclist in your lane. Correct behaviour was to slow down, let incomming car pass. Then pass the cyclist when it's safe. Too bad most people missed that part or slept through it during drivers education in school.
slagjumper
10-11-05, 06:49 AM
I think that older folks are soon to be cyclings number 1 safty problem, if they are not already. I was appalled to see a web site that advocated that "seniors" should only make right turns, to avoid the challenge of timing the turn with traffic that has the right of way. Avoiding rush hours and dusk driving where also mentioned. The baby boom buldge is moving up in age.
Nicodemus
10-11-05, 06:59 AM
CARS PASSING BIKES -- CLOSE ENCOUNTERS & WRECKS
By Steven M. Magas, Esq.
About a year ago I was asked to contribute a chapter to a new book entitled Bicycle Accident Reconstruction and Litigation. The book has just been released and, while you won't find it on the New York Times bestseller list, it does offer some fascinating insights into bike accident litigation from all over the country.
One of the most common bike accident scenarios involves motorists colliding with cyclists while overtaking them. It's not difficult to understand why. My experience is that motorists perceive that lane lines are absolute and believe that they cannot cross them when passing cyclists. If they can squeeze between you and the lane line, they will do so no matter how close they come to you. Once they break the plane and cross the lane line they will usually allow sufficient room to pass. [I modestly call this the "Magas Phenomenon."] In Effective Cycling," John Forester recommends riding in the center of narrow lanes and just to the right of cars in wide lanes in order to encourage the motorist leave the lane to pass you and to give you some room to dive if you need it!. Cars still manage to frequently collide with cyclists during the execution of the passing maneuver and in Bicycle Accident Reconstruction and Litigation there is a virtual catalog of dozens of reported cases on this issue.
An interesting case arose in Idaho in the 1960's. A 14 year old boy was riding on a narrow gravel shoulder of a two lane 24 foot wide highway. A motorist came upon the boy at 55 mph. A disinterested witness said the boy appeared to be having problems controlling his bike on the gravel and said the motorist neither slowed nor steered left. As the motorist approached, the bike operator sweved left onto the roadway in front of the car and was killed. The point of impact was one to two feet onto the roadway. The court ruled that the cyclist was entitled to use the right edge of the roadway as a matter of law since Idaho law, like Ohio law, requires cyclists to ride as far to the right as is practicable. The court stated that a motorist may not assume that a bike operator travelling on the berm will stay on the berm since he has a legal right to ride on the roadway. Kelley v. Bruch (Id. 1966), 415 P.2d 693.
In a 1987 Ohio case a motorist argued that he lost the cyclist "in the sun" while passing The jury, for some unknown reason, found the cyclist to be 20% negligent when the motorist struck the cyclist. The court determined that the motorists argument was not a legal excuse to hit the cyclist and found that the jury made a mistake when assigning any blame for the accident to the cyclist. Howard v. McKitrick, Lexis Slip Opinion, Ohio App., July 2, 1987.
In Ohio, a passing motorist must sound a horn before passing and the motorist is negligent if he fails to do so. However, courts have also held that a horn blown in an untimely fashion which scares a cyclist and causes the cyclist to move unexpectedly or lose control is also negligence. In one case a cyclist heard a horn close by, turned to look and moved left into a passing car. The jury found the cyclist to be 95% responsible for the wreck, but the trial judge reversed the jury's findings and found the motorist to be 75% responsible!
The bottom line...keep an eye in your mirror and watch out for those passing motorists. Take up your fair share of the roadway and make motorists get into the other lane to pass you. Drive defensively people....as a famous TV character used to say..."Let's be careful out there...."
:lol: wrong. Bottom line is that bikes are not cars.
But some interesting cases nonetheless. Cheers.
mimis
10-11-05, 08:36 AM
many times a week i pose the same dillemma to myself: is it wiser perhaps to ride in the middle of the right lane practicing any vehicle's right to go as slow as they like in this lane (we call it emergency lane in my country)
This troubles me every time-happens very often during each ride-a car nearly scrapes my left elbow or when the airdraft shot by speeding buses derail my front wheel..
Taxi , school bus drivers and senile cowboys are by far the most careless for cyclists, especially the loners.Team riders are much more respected as their bulk blocks the right lane.
All we need is luck on our side nothing else can save us