Brian
10-11-05, 01:24 AM
Expat and Ricardo both say they can't describe their system, then they both turn around and describe their system. Hmmmm. . . .
:)
Have I described a system?
:)
Have I described a system?
View Full Version : VC Extremists: Please Do Not Post In This Thread!
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Brian
10-11-05, 01:29 AM
[SNIP]as long as I know Trek does not sell a "Accident Stop watch" that you can press and stop time from moving until you get to consult you note book, call your mama or go on the Internet and consult what to do, [SNIP]
Sketchy English or not, this is why everyone loves to read what Ricardo has to write. :D
Sketchy English or not, this is why everyone loves to read what Ricardo has to write. :D
Nicodemus
10-11-05, 08:08 AM
Okay Roody, here are my riding principles:
1. Be visible.
2. Be predictable.
That's it. Basic, simple, helpful for most riders if not all, isn't swiss cheese, and doesn't require endless nitpicking of scenarios or pages and pages of discussions. And most importantly *doesn't have a name*.
1. Be visible.
2. Be predictable.
That's it. Basic, simple, helpful for most riders if not all, isn't swiss cheese, and doesn't require endless nitpicking of scenarios or pages and pages of discussions. And most importantly *doesn't have a name*.
LittleBigMan
10-11-05, 09:05 AM
If you can stay out of bike lanes, you can stay out of this thread! :)
Since I am rebellious enough to leave the bike lane on a whim, I couldn't resist posting here, too. ;)
Since I am rebellious enough to leave the bike lane on a whim, I couldn't resist posting here, too. ;)
oboeguy
10-11-05, 09:58 AM
I'm an LCI...
* I ride vehicularly in the streets
* I ride on multi-use trails by our creeks... slowly & carefully... because they are so much more beautiful than butt-ugly Houston streets
* I use dedicated bike lanes
* I used to use a particular sidewalk to get to a former workplace, the sidewalk was bordering a large golf course which did not cross-cut the sidewalk with any driveways or anything... no places for potential collisions... and, being Houston, no peds either. I would then emerge bunny-hopping back into the road
USE WHAT WORKS, KNOW WHERE THE PITFALLS ARE FOR EACH MODE, that's my philosophy
I guess I'm an LCI too, whatever the acronym means, because you ride like do.
* I ride vehicularly in the streets
* I ride on multi-use trails by our creeks... slowly & carefully... because they are so much more beautiful than butt-ugly Houston streets
* I use dedicated bike lanes
* I used to use a particular sidewalk to get to a former workplace, the sidewalk was bordering a large golf course which did not cross-cut the sidewalk with any driveways or anything... no places for potential collisions... and, being Houston, no peds either. I would then emerge bunny-hopping back into the road
USE WHAT WORKS, KNOW WHERE THE PITFALLS ARE FOR EACH MODE, that's my philosophy
I guess I'm an LCI too, whatever the acronym means, because you ride like do.
ricardo kuhn
10-11-05, 10:14 AM
Roody maybe you need to change the Tittle of the tread to...
If you DO NOT have a "Sistem" don't post here
If you DO NOT have a "Sistem" don't post here
ricardo kuhn
10-11-05, 10:38 AM
Okay Roody, here are my riding principles:
1. Be visible.
2. Be predictable.
That's it. Basic, simple, helpful for most riders if not all, isn't swiss cheese, and doesn't require endless nitpicking of scenarios or pages and pages of discussions. And most importantly *doesn't have a name*.
Nicodemus Exelent "SisTeM" very sound aproach since the Most you can do is to manage all the factors that depend on you, from Passive sistems like your Yellow vest with reflective tape and reflective surfaces on the bike (white In the front, Yellow or Orange on the sides and RED in the back) and little blinky lights to a well tune vehicle that respond to your impulses in a almost telepatic way.... to active sistems like semiotically (none verbal comunication) "anounce" your Moves to the people (No Robotic cars that I know so far) sorrounding you, being coherent and predictable and also being Acertive and not a "ScArY CaT" (like the ladys on the Beige mami vans).
the basic prinsiple is that you have very little control on the way others perform or reach to certain outcomes (including the fisical vehicles,, like mass, inertia, road grip,,, etc) the variables are just to many to be prepper (to Trust a Sistem) for every scenario in a intelectual way, Safety needs to a far more "second nature" to really make it work in your advantage., basically if you need to think about what you need to do is already way to Late and you will be on the ground already..
1. Be visible.
2. Be predictable.
That's it. Basic, simple, helpful for most riders if not all, isn't swiss cheese, and doesn't require endless nitpicking of scenarios or pages and pages of discussions. And most importantly *doesn't have a name*.
Nicodemus Exelent "SisTeM" very sound aproach since the Most you can do is to manage all the factors that depend on you, from Passive sistems like your Yellow vest with reflective tape and reflective surfaces on the bike (white In the front, Yellow or Orange on the sides and RED in the back) and little blinky lights to a well tune vehicle that respond to your impulses in a almost telepatic way.... to active sistems like semiotically (none verbal comunication) "anounce" your Moves to the people (No Robotic cars that I know so far) sorrounding you, being coherent and predictable and also being Acertive and not a "ScArY CaT" (like the ladys on the Beige mami vans).
the basic prinsiple is that you have very little control on the way others perform or reach to certain outcomes (including the fisical vehicles,, like mass, inertia, road grip,,, etc) the variables are just to many to be prepper (to Trust a Sistem) for every scenario in a intelectual way, Safety needs to a far more "second nature" to really make it work in your advantage., basically if you need to think about what you need to do is already way to Late and you will be on the ground already..
Keith99
10-11-05, 11:31 AM
Okay Roody, here are my riding principles:
1. Be visible.
2. Be predictable.
That's it. Basic, simple, helpful for most riders if not all, isn't swiss cheese, and doesn't require endless nitpicking of scenarios or pages and pages of discussions. And most importantly *doesn't have a name*.
The problem of a sort here is to really be effective in part 2 there needs to be some set of rules all cyclists follow. Of course an individual cyclist can do a lot by just not being eratic. But to everyone else out there you are a cyclist, just one of many, and the best others can do is ask the question what will a cyclist do.
A good example is stop lights.signs. There are so many cyclists that blow both that now all cyclists are unpredictable. Drivers have no idea what a cyclist might do.
1. Be visible.
2. Be predictable.
That's it. Basic, simple, helpful for most riders if not all, isn't swiss cheese, and doesn't require endless nitpicking of scenarios or pages and pages of discussions. And most importantly *doesn't have a name*.
The problem of a sort here is to really be effective in part 2 there needs to be some set of rules all cyclists follow. Of course an individual cyclist can do a lot by just not being eratic. But to everyone else out there you are a cyclist, just one of many, and the best others can do is ask the question what will a cyclist do.
A good example is stop lights.signs. There are so many cyclists that blow both that now all cyclists are unpredictable. Drivers have no idea what a cyclist might do.
Roody
10-11-05, 11:38 AM
Nicodemus Exelent "SisTeM" very sound aproach since the Most you can do is to manage all the factors that depend on you, from Passive sistems like your Yellow vest with reflective tape and reflective surfaces on the bike (white In the front, Yellow or Orange on the sides and RED in the back) and little blinky lights to a well tune vehicle that respond to your impulses in a almost telepatic way.... to active sistems like semiotically (none verbal comunication) "anounce" your Moves to the people (No Robotic cars that I know so far) sorrounding you, being coherent and predictable and also being Acertive and not a "ScArY CaT" (like the ladys on the Beige mami vans).
the basic prinsiple is that you have very little control on the way others perform or reach to certain outcomes (including the fisical vehicles,, like mass, inertia, road grip,,, etc) the variables are just to many to be prepper (to Trust a Sistem) for every scenario in a intelectual way, Safety needs to a far more "second nature" to really make it work in your advantage., basically if you need to think about what you need to do is already way to Late and you will be on the ground already..
Sorry, vato, you definitely have a system. :D
Thanks for taking the time to explain it to us. And everybody else, too!
the basic prinsiple is that you have very little control on the way others perform or reach to certain outcomes (including the fisical vehicles,, like mass, inertia, road grip,,, etc) the variables are just to many to be prepper (to Trust a Sistem) for every scenario in a intelectual way, Safety needs to a far more "second nature" to really make it work in your advantage., basically if you need to think about what you need to do is already way to Late and you will be on the ground already..
Sorry, vato, you definitely have a system. :D
Thanks for taking the time to explain it to us. And everybody else, too!
mandovoodoo
10-11-05, 11:41 AM
The problem of a sort here is to really be effective in part 2 there needs to be some set of rules all cyclists follow. Of course an individual cyclist can do a lot by just not being eratic. But to everyone else out there you are a cyclist, just one of many, and the best others can do is ask the question what will a cyclist do.
A good example is stop lights.signs. There are so many cyclists that blow both that now all cyclists are unpredictable. Drivers have no idea what a cyclist might do.
Indeed. And I have little idea what motorists are going to do!
A problem I see with any described system is that it is unlikely to influence all levels of cyclists. The term may be too broad. It covers commuters who poke along competently, weekend riders of controlled access areas with almost no skill, recreational riders, racers and people who ride like racers and have a mission. The same minimum set of laws governs all these with greater or lesser degrees of effectiveness. Generic laws seem pretty useless under some circumstances. I blow through one stop sign on the way to work if nobody is visible. This is in the middle of nowhere in the countryside. I at least slow for another. Is this unreasonable? I don't know. I seem to be riding exactly like the majority of the motorized folks at those two places, but when I'm driving, I stop.
I don't know that I can derive a system from that.
Maybe a minimum standards set by the law approach is the best we'll come up with. The same piece of road may be occupied by riders with a 5 mph approach and little skill and at the same time by a 35 mph rider with great skill. Will the same standards really fit both? I think so, if they're minimum legal standards. And I think cyclists know these. I expect to get a ticket if I run a stop sign and a Deputy is there. Actually, I would probably just have the Deputy stop by and ask me to at least pretend to slow down - I probably know any deputy that's likely to be out here. But you get the idea.
Strict VC likely isn't possible on all roads. Rt 321 out here has a 65 mph speed limit. I'm not going to enter the slow lane, merge over into the fast lane, and then into a turn lane. I'm going to slow down, watch, and whip across when there's an opening. I think one would have to be an idiot to do otherwise.
A good example is stop lights.signs. There are so many cyclists that blow both that now all cyclists are unpredictable. Drivers have no idea what a cyclist might do.
Indeed. And I have little idea what motorists are going to do!
A problem I see with any described system is that it is unlikely to influence all levels of cyclists. The term may be too broad. It covers commuters who poke along competently, weekend riders of controlled access areas with almost no skill, recreational riders, racers and people who ride like racers and have a mission. The same minimum set of laws governs all these with greater or lesser degrees of effectiveness. Generic laws seem pretty useless under some circumstances. I blow through one stop sign on the way to work if nobody is visible. This is in the middle of nowhere in the countryside. I at least slow for another. Is this unreasonable? I don't know. I seem to be riding exactly like the majority of the motorized folks at those two places, but when I'm driving, I stop.
I don't know that I can derive a system from that.
Maybe a minimum standards set by the law approach is the best we'll come up with. The same piece of road may be occupied by riders with a 5 mph approach and little skill and at the same time by a 35 mph rider with great skill. Will the same standards really fit both? I think so, if they're minimum legal standards. And I think cyclists know these. I expect to get a ticket if I run a stop sign and a Deputy is there. Actually, I would probably just have the Deputy stop by and ask me to at least pretend to slow down - I probably know any deputy that's likely to be out here. But you get the idea.
Strict VC likely isn't possible on all roads. Rt 321 out here has a 65 mph speed limit. I'm not going to enter the slow lane, merge over into the fast lane, and then into a turn lane. I'm going to slow down, watch, and whip across when there's an opening. I think one would have to be an idiot to do otherwise.
noisebeam
10-11-05, 11:46 AM
...two cyclists weaving in and out of traffic to go around parked cars, then back into the bike lane, then back into traffic, back to the bike lane. .... If you can pick a style of riding that is predictable and everyone understands, everyone will get along.
Adam
This bring to light the problem with saying one rides 'predictably'. One persons predictable may be anothers erratic. Those two cyclist may have felt predictable (stay in bike lane when it is there, go around cars when they are in they way) because they followed a simple rule of their own.
This is why riding vehicularly is the only predictable way to ride, it is the only set of rules that all users of the road are aware of.
Al
Adam
This bring to light the problem with saying one rides 'predictably'. One persons predictable may be anothers erratic. Those two cyclist may have felt predictable (stay in bike lane when it is there, go around cars when they are in they way) because they followed a simple rule of their own.
This is why riding vehicularly is the only predictable way to ride, it is the only set of rules that all users of the road are aware of.
Al
Roody
10-11-05, 11:56 AM
This bring to light the problem with saying one rides 'predictably'. One persons predictable may be anothers erratic. Those two cyclist may have felt predictable (stay in bike lane when it is there, go around cars when they are in they way) because they followed a simple rule of their own.
This is why riding vehicularly is the only predictable way to ride, it is the only set of rules that all users of the road are aware of.
Al
OOPS! One slipped in. Somebody call security!
This is why riding vehicularly is the only predictable way to ride, it is the only set of rules that all users of the road are aware of.
Al
OOPS! One slipped in. Somebody call security!
noisebeam
10-11-05, 12:05 PM
OOPS! One slipped in. Somebody call security!
I thought the rule had already been broken - I also don't consider myself an extremist by any measure. As penance I will ride the wrong way on the sidewalk for 15min this evening.
But fun aside, I wasn't trying to argue for vehicular riding (vr) but just thinking out loud about what 'predictable' means in a social setting.
Al
I thought the rule had already been broken - I also don't consider myself an extremist by any measure. As penance I will ride the wrong way on the sidewalk for 15min this evening.
But fun aside, I wasn't trying to argue for vehicular riding (vr) but just thinking out loud about what 'predictable' means in a social setting.
Al
patc
10-11-05, 01:15 PM
But fun aside, I wasn't trying to argue for vehicular riding (vr) but just thinking out loud about what 'predictable' means in a social setting.
"Predictable" means what the obserserver expects to see. That expectation is based entirely on the observer's experience, knowledge, and awareness of his/her current environment.
I don't think you can ever be certain of acting predictably, all you can do is act in a way you feel will be most predictable to most observers - based, of course, on your own experience, knowledge, and awareness.
"Predictable" means what the obserserver expects to see. That expectation is based entirely on the observer's experience, knowledge, and awareness of his/her current environment.
I don't think you can ever be certain of acting predictably, all you can do is act in a way you feel will be most predictable to most observers - based, of course, on your own experience, knowledge, and awareness.
marcelinyc
10-11-05, 01:44 PM
Finally in Posting #26 ViciousCycle say the right words Vehicular Cyclist now i get it.
if you are taking about a bicycle that goes at similar speed than the flow of traffic, I totally agree in fact is not only the fastest way but the safest way since is no much disparity on the speeds and you can just "Flow" with the metal cages with out need to accelerate or press the brakes abruptlly...
one thing is for sure you need to have the legs, a well tune bike and for sure know what you are doing.
nuff said.
but you can move faster then pedastians when on sidewalk :p
if you are taking about a bicycle that goes at similar speed than the flow of traffic, I totally agree in fact is not only the fastest way but the safest way since is no much disparity on the speeds and you can just "Flow" with the metal cages with out need to accelerate or press the brakes abruptlly...
one thing is for sure you need to have the legs, a well tune bike and for sure know what you are doing.
nuff said.
but you can move faster then pedastians when on sidewalk :p
marcelinyc
10-11-05, 02:00 PM
SWS - system without a sytstem is the way to go. Roody, sometimes you need to be predictible while other times you need to be unpredictible but then you need to rely on your senses( thinking ahead, hearing, vision but no telepathy please :rolleyes: )
Nicodemus
10-11-05, 02:39 PM
I thought the rule had already been broken - I also don't consider myself an extremist by any measure. As penance I will ride the wrong way on the sidewalk for 15min this evening.
:lol:
But you do actually bring to mind a good point.
One of the most memorable things from my driver's ed classes was about how to remember that motorbikes were different, and they might do things that to a car driver might seem unpredictable. The same rule goes even further to a non-motorised vehicle with a completely different set of parameters.
The 2 rules I gave are actually pretty serious. I don't call it an ideology as such, it's just a simple pair of rules. Also, such basic simplicity allows for interpretation according to circumstances. There is no further narrowing down of "be predictable" into the ethos of riding vehicularly that will accomodate the full spectrum of what "predictable" really means on a bicycle.
I hope that made sense.
:lol:
But you do actually bring to mind a good point.
One of the most memorable things from my driver's ed classes was about how to remember that motorbikes were different, and they might do things that to a car driver might seem unpredictable. The same rule goes even further to a non-motorised vehicle with a completely different set of parameters.
The 2 rules I gave are actually pretty serious. I don't call it an ideology as such, it's just a simple pair of rules. Also, such basic simplicity allows for interpretation according to circumstances. There is no further narrowing down of "be predictable" into the ethos of riding vehicularly that will accomodate the full spectrum of what "predictable" really means on a bicycle.
I hope that made sense.
ricardo kuhn
10-11-05, 03:15 PM
One thing is for sure, if most cyclist were so complicated, or need to follow all this rules I don't think many people will even think about riding a bicycle, were is the freaking fun in that, you guys have more regulations and rules than a maximum serurity prisson and even more sad is that you are the ones fabricating your own gates, steel bars and alarms...
to me bikes (hopefully to other people too) like many other human power vehicles and sports are about FuN and self expression.
the way I see it everybody have allready jobs, school and envimorement that require constant monitoring, rules and regulation sincerlly I don't see the point of bringing all this parameters and procedures to something is soppose to be Freeing, refreshing and at least expontaneus.
Vato.... My Old country is about 6000 Milles from Mejico, so Vato does not really fit my description criteria much, is like if a call you a Gentleman suffering from the execive effect of Ultraviolete Rays in between the upper part of you spine and the lower part of your Cranium...(man being PC can be a Pain in the Bu^^) with out knowning were you are coming from,,,very Unpolite and Un-PC don't you think !?!?!?.
to me bikes (hopefully to other people too) like many other human power vehicles and sports are about FuN and self expression.
the way I see it everybody have allready jobs, school and envimorement that require constant monitoring, rules and regulation sincerlly I don't see the point of bringing all this parameters and procedures to something is soppose to be Freeing, refreshing and at least expontaneus.
Vato.... My Old country is about 6000 Milles from Mejico, so Vato does not really fit my description criteria much, is like if a call you a Gentleman suffering from the execive effect of Ultraviolete Rays in between the upper part of you spine and the lower part of your Cranium...(man being PC can be a Pain in the Bu^^) with out knowning were you are coming from,,,very Unpolite and Un-PC don't you think !?!?!?.
Roody
10-11-05, 04:48 PM
Sorry ricardo. my espanol sucks! :)
Brian
10-11-05, 05:03 PM
[snip] And I have little idea what motorists are going to do! [snip]
As an unapologetic motorist myself, I generally have a good idea of what motorists are going to do. After handling auto insurance claims for about 10 years, I have seen every kind of loss, and every stupid move you could imagine. This has certainly shaped how I drive, as well as how I ride. I think it's easier to anticipate what a motorist is going to do in any given situation, based on what I have seen. Nothing really surprises me any more.
As an unapologetic motorist myself, I generally have a good idea of what motorists are going to do. After handling auto insurance claims for about 10 years, I have seen every kind of loss, and every stupid move you could imagine. This has certainly shaped how I drive, as well as how I ride. I think it's easier to anticipate what a motorist is going to do in any given situation, based on what I have seen. Nothing really surprises me any more.
Helmet Head
10-12-05, 12:46 AM
This is an interesting point. To bike the way I do (vehicularly), I feel like I need to ride hard and fast to be safe.... I feel the lower the speed differential between me and the cars, the better it is for me. Not everybody does this, and not everybody is able. What of them?
I ride quite slowly when pullling 60 lbs of trailer/child with my 30 lbs mountain bike, but, never-the-less, no less vehicularly than when I'm on my 17 lbs road bike.
In my experience, speed has very little to do with whether one is able to travel according to the vehicular rules of the road or not.
I ride quite slowly when pullling 60 lbs of trailer/child with my 30 lbs mountain bike, but, never-the-less, no less vehicularly than when I'm on my 17 lbs road bike.
In my experience, speed has very little to do with whether one is able to travel according to the vehicular rules of the road or not.
ArizonaAdam
10-12-05, 12:55 AM
This is why riding vehicularly is the only predictable way to ride, it is the only set of rules that all users of the road are aware of.
Al
Yeah, that's about what I was trying to say, but apparently in a too-subtle way. Be careful about throwing the word "aware" around. Awareness and interest in observing are two different things.
Adam
Al
Yeah, that's about what I was trying to say, but apparently in a too-subtle way. Be careful about throwing the word "aware" around. Awareness and interest in observing are two different things.
Adam
Helmet Head
10-12-05, 01:05 AM
I guess I'm an LCI too, whatever the acronym means, because you ride like do.
I think you would know if you were an LCI... a League Certified Instructor... certified by the League of American Bicyclists (LAB) to teach cycling courses.
http://www.bikeleague.org
I think you would know if you were an LCI... a League Certified Instructor... certified by the League of American Bicyclists (LAB) to teach cycling courses.
http://www.bikeleague.org
Roody
10-12-05, 01:12 AM
I think you would know if you were an LCI... a League Certified Instructor... certified by the League of American Bicyclists (LAB) to teach cycling courses.
http://www.bikeleague.org
Oh hell the Dark Prince of the VC Ninjas snuck in with two posts in the middle of the night. I guess the National Guard was busy guarding something else.
http://www.bikeleague.org
Oh hell the Dark Prince of the VC Ninjas snuck in with two posts in the middle of the night. I guess the National Guard was busy guarding something else.
Brian
10-12-05, 01:16 AM
Oh hell the Dark Prince of the VC Ninjas snuck in with two posts in the middle of the night. I guess the National Guard was busy guarding something else.
:D At least you didn't make some flippant remark about lack of reading comprehension skills or something to that effect. Perhaps the DP of VCN just misread the title of the thread?
:D At least you didn't make some flippant remark about lack of reading comprehension skills or something to that effect. Perhaps the DP of VCN just misread the title of the thread?
Helmet Head
10-12-05, 01:20 AM
I hope you guys are not implying that I am a VC extremist.
I'm just a humble advocate of the practice of vehicular cycling, of course.
I'm just a humble advocate of the practice of vehicular cycling, of course.
Brian
10-12-05, 01:23 AM
I hope you guys are not implying that I am a VC extremist.
I'm just a humble advocate of the practice of vehicular cycling, of course.
And I'm one of those forum members with just a passing interest in cycling, who rarely posts.
I'm just a humble advocate of the practice of vehicular cycling, of course.
And I'm one of those forum members with just a passing interest in cycling, who rarely posts.
marcelinyc
10-12-05, 01:28 AM
^^15.85 posts a day, you need to ride more
Brian
10-12-05, 02:07 AM
^^15.85 posts a day, you need to ride more
Agreed. As soon as I figure out how to shorten my work day, and change the weather. Even though winter is finally over, it's been rainy and very windy. I do squeeze those posts in during my working hours though.
Agreed. As soon as I figure out how to shorten my work day, and change the weather. Even though winter is finally over, it's been rainy and very windy. I do squeeze those posts in during my working hours though.
Roody
10-12-05, 07:12 AM
Working hours? What happened to the work ethic down under? At least we wait for our break time in the USA!
royalflash
10-12-05, 07:58 AM
I hope you guys are not implying that I am a VC extremist.
I'm just a humble advocate of the practice of vehicular cycling, of course.
not that humble- in another thread you said you were a master vehicular cyclist :)
I'm just a humble advocate of the practice of vehicular cycling, of course.
not that humble- in another thread you said you were a master vehicular cyclist :)
Brian
10-12-05, 03:52 PM
Working hours? What happened to the work ethic down under? At least we wait for our break time in the USA!
When your day runs about 12 hours, you do as you please. I run a lot of reports and crap throughout the day, so I post in between while they're running.
When your day runs about 12 hours, you do as you please. I run a lot of reports and crap throughout the day, so I post in between while they're running.
anchojoe
10-13-05, 12:16 PM
Thanks for the Complement Cyclaholic...
I took a long long time to write this because for me is very emotional, I can tell you so many stories, so many almost "Death experiences" being pin in between two buses going at 35KpH on my board,, man I'm so glad i never Jump and always ride it out...
those were Incredible days, everything was so intense, the smells so pure,, the smog so dense, the smiles of some people on their cars when they were stuck on a traffic jam so sweet, the envy of the ladys all dress up going to a party on a car pack with people full of smoke and cheap perfume when I was carring my girlfriend on my rear rack of my bicycle with a big old Pillow and everything on the way to some date just enyoing her company and the sometimes silence that let you hear the wind and feel the rain...
Bicycles, skates and human power machines ussually have this wonderful speed to it,,, like a read one time somewere,,,"fast enogh to get to the forest, Slow enogh to see the trees"
Whoa! Ricardo you should be "writing" in addition to "riding" You have the gift...
I took a long long time to write this because for me is very emotional, I can tell you so many stories, so many almost "Death experiences" being pin in between two buses going at 35KpH on my board,, man I'm so glad i never Jump and always ride it out...
those were Incredible days, everything was so intense, the smells so pure,, the smog so dense, the smiles of some people on their cars when they were stuck on a traffic jam so sweet, the envy of the ladys all dress up going to a party on a car pack with people full of smoke and cheap perfume when I was carring my girlfriend on my rear rack of my bicycle with a big old Pillow and everything on the way to some date just enyoing her company and the sometimes silence that let you hear the wind and feel the rain...
Bicycles, skates and human power machines ussually have this wonderful speed to it,,, like a read one time somewere,,,"fast enogh to get to the forest, Slow enogh to see the trees"
Whoa! Ricardo you should be "writing" in addition to "riding" You have the gift...
ricardo kuhn
10-13-05, 07:19 PM
Whoa! Ricardo you should be "writing" in addition to "riding" You have the gift...
wow.... thanks Joe
i'm so self consius about my gramatical mistakes and miss spells I feel like my brain does not really flow, at least is not like the "Water fall" that you ussually get taking in spanish or even En Ingles..
but you are right, I just re-read the paragraf and i'm pretty content with the way it came out, In fact I feel the claustrofobia of the ladys on the stinky car so I guess I did just fine.
thanks again for the complement..
I was just trying to remaind people WhY we ride Bikes,, well at least why I like to ride them...
wow.... thanks Joe
i'm so self consius about my gramatical mistakes and miss spells I feel like my brain does not really flow, at least is not like the "Water fall" that you ussually get taking in spanish or even En Ingles..
but you are right, I just re-read the paragraf and i'm pretty content with the way it came out, In fact I feel the claustrofobia of the ladys on the stinky car so I guess I did just fine.
thanks again for the complement..
I was just trying to remaind people WhY we ride Bikes,, well at least why I like to ride them...
MaxBender
10-13-05, 07:50 PM
VC or not, the laws of physics overrule the laws of traffic every time.
Roody
10-13-05, 08:11 PM
When your day runs about 12 hours, you do as you please. I run a lot of reports and crap throughout the day, so I post in between while they're running.That's weird. . .
Here in the northern hemisphere the days run about 24 hours! :D
Here in the northern hemisphere the days run about 24 hours! :D
Dchiefransom
10-13-05, 08:21 PM
12 hours? Do you tell people you're working half-days?
Brian
10-13-05, 08:21 PM
That's weird. . .
Here in the northern hemisphere the days run about 24 hours! :D
Taken out of context... Yeah, I start around 5:30 AM, and after work, I still have to try and look after what's left of my business. So I usually post between about 6AM and 8:30PM local time.
Here in the northern hemisphere the days run about 24 hours! :D
Taken out of context... Yeah, I start around 5:30 AM, and after work, I still have to try and look after what's left of my business. So I usually post between about 6AM and 8:30PM local time.
ricardo kuhn
10-13-05, 08:36 PM
VC or not, the laws of physics overrule the laws of traffic every time.
Exactlly my point...
plus is a few social Modus operandy that can be predicted,,, actually a very optimistic guy call MuRphY got most of them pretty well figure out...if you get my drift.
Exactlly my point...
plus is a few social Modus operandy that can be predicted,,, actually a very optimistic guy call MuRphY got most of them pretty well figure out...if you get my drift.
ricardo kuhn
10-14-05, 12:16 AM
So I was reading on This Tread (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=146056) and suddenlly realize another "Aception" A.K.A. about the "Vehicular Cicyclist"..
I do know I'm going to get in a lot of trouble for saying this,, but what the He^^ are this guys and gals thinking...!?!?
please please.... tell me this is NoT what V.C. means,,, that you take a whole lane that can fit a whole car and you (On POrpuse) slow the whole traffic down to your Lamme A^^ leasure pedal cadence...(I never see fast riders doing this, only the very slow ones, the Un-acertive ScaryCats, with the safety yellow jacket and the little mirror on the helmet..sorry for the generalization, but they prove to be always the same).. and please don't tell me "But is not sufficinet space on the side of the road... in this country is always space on the right side of the road and if is not find a better route or become a better rider so you can ride in less space with confidence.
Anyway that is So So lamme, the only thing that this sistem accomplish is to slow the moment of everybody (cloging the stops signs and lights even more) with out any reason to justified exept your own little Ego and this "I'm going to teach them a lesson" because i'm just such a evolve little creature and I know better that they do...
that is just so arrogant and pointless, the only thing that accomplish is making everybody even more stress out and get the people piss-off at EVERY Bicyclist not just a few.. plus the car will try to pass as fast as possible when he thinks he can maybe causing a accident, Yes I know is not reason to be in such a hurry and in need to get anywere that fast is the Typical "race to no were... fast,," but that is their choice not yours to stop them as long as they are under the legal speed limit and following the rules of the road.. but that is the way some people like to life their life and the bases of the "land of the free" .
personally I'm really tyred of seeing accidents (Live i Berkeley the land of the ultrageeks) cause by cars going over the double yellow because a Stupid and clueless bicyclist was riding in the middle of the road and the car decide to do a ilegal manuver and cross the yellow line, in fact a friend of mine dye do to this on a bicycle/car accident when the car move over and Graig was coming into a turn and did not see it,,, yeah yeah who cares who was at fault,, (my dear friend is not here anymore no matter what) actually if anybody was, is the lemmo rider trying to make a Statement with a bike acting like it was 8 feet wide.
YeS I know the guys on the cars can slow down and also come to a stop when the bicyclist is on a hill,,,, but they DON't (i see it time and time again),, I also have another friend on a wheelchair do to this, but this time was a motorcycle/car ( no matter what the cars always win)
so if this is part of what a VC rider does,,, I think we need to rent a Jumbo jet and buy a bunch of Body bags and take the silly "MIddle of the road" 7MpH riders to a enviroment not as "Forgiving" as this country to get "A can of Woop A^^" just to teachthem how to be polite, skillful, wise, fast brain, street smart and not arrogant.
Again remenber and I'm human power appasionatoo and i spend a very big part of my life moving under my own power (ussually very fast,,well as fast as I can) but also understand other people have diferent options and opinions and I'm nobody to force them to accept what I think is right in the same way they have no right trying to make me be like they are...(basis Of Demotracy and not autocratic nations)
as a Bicyclist, a Skater, a motocyclist I always ride my vehicle sharing the road and trying to be "Helpfull" as much as I can with out gepardizing (putting under risk) my safety, I just think is the correct thing to do,, just remenber "If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem" yeah cars sucks,, Hell i don't even know how to drive one and i dislike them as much as the next guy maybe even more(they are heavy, obsolete, arrogant, underuse in terms of load capacity) but for now they are the option of the mayority, I also know we need to be advicates for a new and better future, but slowing traffic down is for sure no the way do it...
Ricaro "patineto" A.K.A."Skateboard man" kuhn
If you were riding 5 feet from the sidewalk in Bogota, you will be as good as gone in less than five minutes...
I do know I'm going to get in a lot of trouble for saying this,, but what the He^^ are this guys and gals thinking...!?!?
please please.... tell me this is NoT what V.C. means,,, that you take a whole lane that can fit a whole car and you (On POrpuse) slow the whole traffic down to your Lamme A^^ leasure pedal cadence...(I never see fast riders doing this, only the very slow ones, the Un-acertive ScaryCats, with the safety yellow jacket and the little mirror on the helmet..sorry for the generalization, but they prove to be always the same).. and please don't tell me "But is not sufficinet space on the side of the road... in this country is always space on the right side of the road and if is not find a better route or become a better rider so you can ride in less space with confidence.
Anyway that is So So lamme, the only thing that this sistem accomplish is to slow the moment of everybody (cloging the stops signs and lights even more) with out any reason to justified exept your own little Ego and this "I'm going to teach them a lesson" because i'm just such a evolve little creature and I know better that they do...
that is just so arrogant and pointless, the only thing that accomplish is making everybody even more stress out and get the people piss-off at EVERY Bicyclist not just a few.. plus the car will try to pass as fast as possible when he thinks he can maybe causing a accident, Yes I know is not reason to be in such a hurry and in need to get anywere that fast is the Typical "race to no were... fast,," but that is their choice not yours to stop them as long as they are under the legal speed limit and following the rules of the road.. but that is the way some people like to life their life and the bases of the "land of the free" .
personally I'm really tyred of seeing accidents (Live i Berkeley the land of the ultrageeks) cause by cars going over the double yellow because a Stupid and clueless bicyclist was riding in the middle of the road and the car decide to do a ilegal manuver and cross the yellow line, in fact a friend of mine dye do to this on a bicycle/car accident when the car move over and Graig was coming into a turn and did not see it,,, yeah yeah who cares who was at fault,, (my dear friend is not here anymore no matter what) actually if anybody was, is the lemmo rider trying to make a Statement with a bike acting like it was 8 feet wide.
YeS I know the guys on the cars can slow down and also come to a stop when the bicyclist is on a hill,,,, but they DON't (i see it time and time again),, I also have another friend on a wheelchair do to this, but this time was a motorcycle/car ( no matter what the cars always win)
so if this is part of what a VC rider does,,, I think we need to rent a Jumbo jet and buy a bunch of Body bags and take the silly "MIddle of the road" 7MpH riders to a enviroment not as "Forgiving" as this country to get "A can of Woop A^^" just to teachthem how to be polite, skillful, wise, fast brain, street smart and not arrogant.
Again remenber and I'm human power appasionatoo and i spend a very big part of my life moving under my own power (ussually very fast,,well as fast as I can) but also understand other people have diferent options and opinions and I'm nobody to force them to accept what I think is right in the same way they have no right trying to make me be like they are...(basis Of Demotracy and not autocratic nations)
as a Bicyclist, a Skater, a motocyclist I always ride my vehicle sharing the road and trying to be "Helpfull" as much as I can with out gepardizing (putting under risk) my safety, I just think is the correct thing to do,, just remenber "If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem" yeah cars sucks,, Hell i don't even know how to drive one and i dislike them as much as the next guy maybe even more(they are heavy, obsolete, arrogant, underuse in terms of load capacity) but for now they are the option of the mayority, I also know we need to be advicates for a new and better future, but slowing traffic down is for sure no the way do it...
Ricaro "patineto" A.K.A."Skateboard man" kuhn
If you were riding 5 feet from the sidewalk in Bogota, you will be as good as gone in less than five minutes...
Brian
10-14-05, 12:23 AM
Go ahead, Ricardo. Tell us how you really feel. :D
Helmet Head
10-14-05, 12:47 AM
please please.... tell me this is NoT what V.C. means,
It's not.
"Cyclists who ride in the center of a lane needlessly impeding faster traffic are sometimes mistakenly referred to as vehicular cyclists; yet by definition a cyclist who needlessly impedes faster traffic is violating the vehicular rules of the road and is hence not riding vehicularly."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling
In other words, if the lane is wide enough to safely share side by side with a car, than it's reasonable and vehicular to keep to the side. However, if doing so encourages motorists to pass in their cars dangerously close to the cyclist, then riding further left, forcing passing motorists to move into the adjacent lane to pass, is warranted.
It's not.
"Cyclists who ride in the center of a lane needlessly impeding faster traffic are sometimes mistakenly referred to as vehicular cyclists; yet by definition a cyclist who needlessly impedes faster traffic is violating the vehicular rules of the road and is hence not riding vehicularly."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling
In other words, if the lane is wide enough to safely share side by side with a car, than it's reasonable and vehicular to keep to the side. However, if doing so encourages motorists to pass in their cars dangerously close to the cyclist, then riding further left, forcing passing motorists to move into the adjacent lane to pass, is warranted.
Roody
10-14-05, 05:48 PM
I'm not a scaredy cat but i"m in no real hurry to die either. I'm not slow as a turtle or fast as Lance, just average. Ricardo talks like only superfast riders who are suicidal should be riding. That would leave most of us as pedestrians!
I-Like-To-Bike
10-15-05, 08:21 AM
I'm not a scaredy cat but i"m in no real hurry to die either. I'm not slow as a turtle or fast as Lance, just average. Ricardo talks like only superfast riders who are suicidal should be riding. That would leave most of us as pedestrians!
Perhaps the OP will provide the appropriate definition of "VC Extremist". Also if/why he thinks he is exempt from application of the title.
Perhaps the OP will provide the appropriate definition of "VC Extremist". Also if/why he thinks he is exempt from application of the title.
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