Classic & Vintage - Miyata(I need T-Mar's help)

Hi, I've found a Miyata 914 SE on auction and wanted to get an idea of the value. It's frame only and in "like new" condition. Anyone know a good price for one? What does the SE stand for? No exact date for the frame is mentioned but it looks like a late 80s, early 90s. I have a Miyata 512 and absolutely love it. Rides better than my Lemond. I've always wanted a 914 since I've had the 512. What could I spend on this (auction wise) and not be an idiot. Thanks for your help.

The 914SE was unique to 1991. The SE stands for Special Edition. The SE used the Shimano Ultegra group, including the headset and clipless pedals, while the standard model used the Shimano 105SC group with a steel, Tange headset and MKS pedals.

The frames for the SE and standard model were the same, except for paint colors. Both used Miyata's Spline Triple Butted CrMo tubeset, which was a very good tubeset. Trying to set a price is always difficult, but I can tell you that the original price for the complete bicycle was $845.00 US.


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Thanks for the info T-Mar. I'm thinking a good price for the frame only is between $150-$250? Does that sound fair? Thanks.

T-Mar, what can you tell me about the Miyata 912? I have been offered a decent price on a nice looking one that is pink in color with Shimano 600 throughout. Was this a top of the line ride? It feels quite light and is a nice shade of pink, but I don't know the year. It doesn't say "912" on it but rather "nine twelve" on the top tube. Thanks for any input ;)

If it is pink, he should pay you..... :D

T-Mar, I got a Miyata here (NU45592) not sure the year. I believe it's a track bike, I've got a picture but it'll show up huge! (I hit zoom on accident). ANy info would be appreciated. Thanks.

T-Mar, what can you tell me about the Miyata 912? I have been offered a decent price on a nice looking one that is pink in color with Shimano 600 throughout. Was this a top of the line ride? It feels quite light and is a nice shade of pink, but I don't know the year. It doesn't say "912" on it but rather "nine twelve" on the top tube. Thanks for any input ;)

NINE TWELVE was the normal top tube designation, as opposed to 912. The model was the top of the mid range range lin-up, intended for triathletes, beginning racers and avid cyclists. There was a line of Professional racing bicycles above it.

Offhand, I do not recall a pink version, but based on the color it's probably from the mid-1980s and possibly a non North American version or mid season color change. There was a black version with a pink head tube in 1984. Do you have a serial number, the model of 600 or know the what the tubing label says?

T-Mar, I got a Miyata here (NU45592) not sure the year. I believe it's a track bike, I've got a picture but it'll show up huge! (I hit zoom on accident). ANy info would be appreciated. Thanks.

If it's white with a black head tube, then it's the 1986 model Pista. The serial number does put it in that ballpark.

Offhand, I do not recall a pink version, but based on the color it's probably from the mid-1980s and possibly a non North American version or mid season color change. There was a black version with a pink head tube in 1984. Do you have a serial number, the model of 600 or know the what the tubing label says?

Thanks! I don't have the serial number of the bike but I will get it for you later today. This bike is the exact opposite of the one you mention....it is pink and the head tube is black, weird. The tubing label says CroMo, that is all I can remember but I will ask the seller if there is anything else, thanks again.

Okay, here is the info that the seller provided me with:

OE27945 is the serial number
The tubing is Spline Triple Butted Chrome Moly Denum Tubes
Dunno about the Shimano 600 group, just that it says SIS Shimano 600

Thanks for any input T-Mar :)

Hi, T-Mar, can you tell me what size bottom bracket my three ten's supposed to have? It almost looks like it needs to be shorter on the non-drive side, than on the other.

Okay, here is the info that the seller provided me with:

OE27945 is the serial number
The tubing is Spline Triple Butted Chrome Moly Denum Tubes
Dunno about the Shimano 600 group, just that it says SIS Shimano 600

Thanks for any input T-Mar :)

Spline triple butted tubing indicates 1986 or newer. While Shimano 600 SIS derailleur was available in 1986, the catalogs indicate that Miyata did not use it on the 912 until 1987. The 912 changed to the 914 in 1989, so even if we assume the derailleur is an upgrade, we are looking at a limited timeframe of 1986-1988. However, I have all three of these catalogs and there is no model 912 with a predominantly pink color scheme. Again, it could have been a change after the catalogs came out or it could be a foreign version.

However, there are a few things you can check out. A 1986 model will have external routing for the rear brake cable, while a 1987 model will have internal routing for the rear brake cable. A 1988 model will have internal routing for the rear brake cable and what appears to be a single water bottle boss, on the underside of the down tube, about half way down.

Hopefully, the above will aid in establishing the model year. Let me know what you find you out, as I'm extremely curious!

If it's white with a black head tube, then it's the 1986 model Pista. The serial number does put it in that ballpark.

It's Green with a white fork, but I'm pretty sure this was a paint job gone bad. I want to see about getting a new powder coat to try and match what it was originally supposed to look like. Any ideas?

However, there are a few things you can check out. A 1986 model will have external routing for the rear brake cable, while a 1987 model will have internal routing for the rear brake cable. A 1988 model will have internal routing for the rear brake cable and what appears to be a single water bottle boss, on the underside of the down tube, about half way down.

Hopefully, the above will aid in establishing the model year. Let me know what you find you out, as I'm extremely curious!

Welp, it must be a 1986 model as the rear brake cable has external routing. It is a pretty nice bike and very light, so I bought it, even though it is too small for me. It is a 54 frame, according to the stamp on the bottom bracket. I am not sure what I will do with it, maybe tune it up and give it to my friend. I will post some pics tomorrow, T-Mar, so you can see it. There is a lot of scuffing of the paint, which is a bummer because it is a gorgeous color. Any tips on how to shine this baby up? Maybe I will wax it and see how that goes....thanks for all the great help T-Mar, look for photos late tomorrow afternoon ;)

Hi, T-Mar, can you tell me what size bottom bracket my three ten's supposed to have? It almost looks like it needs to be shorter on the non-drive side, than on the other.

Truman, I'm sorry but I can't provide an answer. Based on your statement of asymmetry, I assume that you are talking about the overall spindle length? Unfortunately, the 310 used a variety of bottom brackets and cranks over it's lifespan. To complicate matters, the taper end width on vintage cranks and spindles were not standardized. Consequently, mixing cranks and bottom brackets will cause variations in the chainline and things get even messier if you try using new spindles with your old cups.

If you've had your old bottom bracket apart and know the make and number of the spindle, then it might be possible to predict which modern bottom bracket will provide the best match to the original chainline. If you don't have the tools to take things apart, then it's best to take it your LBS and let their mechanic do the matching.

Welp, it must be a 1986 model as the rear brake cable has external routing. It is a pretty nice bike and very light, so I bought it, even though it is too small for me. It is a 54 frame, according to the stamp on the bottom bracket. I am not sure what I will do with it, maybe tune it up and give it to my friend. I will post some pics tomorrow, T-Mar, so you can see it. There is a lot of scuffing of the paint, which is a bummer because it is a gorgeous color. Any tips on how to shine this baby up? Maybe I will wax it and see how that goes....thanks for all the great help T-Mar, look for photos late tomorrow afternoon ;)

1986 would have been my guess, based on the reversed colour scheme, but I hate having to guess. The pink and pastel color schemes were quite popular during this period due the influence of the Miami Vice TV show. Bianchi had a georgeous Electric Rose on their high end models as an alternative to Celeste. I remember similar colors on Colnago, Miele, Santini and Velosport, to name but a few.

As for the scuffing, sometimes you can buff it out by going through repetively finer abrasives. Miyata was acrylic clear coating all the frames at this time, so hopefully it's down to the paint, in which case there will always be a noticeable difference.

It's Green with a white fork, but I'm pretty sure this was a paint job gone bad. I want to see about getting a new powder coat to try and match what it was originally supposed to look like. Any ideas?

Assuming it has been repainted, but the white fork is original, then it is a 1986 Pista. The original color was white with a black head tube. I used to ride one of these in the late 1980s.

Assuming it has been repainted, but the white fork is original, then it is a 1986 Pista. The original color was white with a black head tube. I used to ride one of these in the late 1980s.


Did you like it? What do you think are some pro's and con's to this bike. I've recently been told to watch the frame near the bottom bracket on the down tube for cracking, a friend said he knew of a couple miyatas that had cracked there. This is my first fixed gear, I'm having fun learning to ride it and am excited to get to do some fixing up jobs. Do you think I might be able to find the original decals anywhere? I know that miyata is now in europe, but I'd like to get those. Thanks again for all the info, how do you know all this stuff?

I'm a newbie with another Miyata identification question for T-Mar. I've read past posts and see you are the expert for all things Miyata! I picked up a Two Ten at the local Goodwill and would like to know more about it. The serial number is ND32389. It is a very nice light blue color. Frame is triple butted cro-mo and manganese forks. The crank says Miyata Signature. It has triple chain rings and 5 cogs on the rear. The friction shift levers, front, and rear derailleur say Shimano but I don't see any model number. I'd be grateful for whatever info you can provide!

Did you like it? What do you think are some pro's and con's to this bike. I've recently been told to watch the frame near the bottom bracket on the down tube for cracking, a friend said he knew of a couple miyatas that had cracked there. This is my first fixed gear, I'm having fun learning to ride it and am excited to get to do some fixing up jobs. Do you think I might be able to find the original decals anywhere? I know that miyata is now in europe, but I'd like to get those. Thanks again for all the info, how do you know all this stuff?

IMHO, the Pista was a great, entry level track bicycle. It was the most common bicycle at the velodrome. The frame design, execution and materials (triple butted CrMo) were very good. The fork and components are where the cost cutting was done on the bicycle. They are good, but lower level. The other drawback, was that it came only in a limited number of sizes. Unlike the higher priced track frames, which came in 1-2cm increments, the Pista had 3-4cm increments. The only problem that I ever had with mine was that I once dropped the chain. I don't recall hearing of any major problems from the other two dozen or so people that rode them. It was good enough for me to race against and occaisionally beat some national team members.

This is the first time that I've heard tell of a Miyata frame failure (outside of abuse) in all the years that I've worked on them. In my opinion, Miyata had excellent Quality Control. The frames were consistently well manufactured. Statistically, you are bound to get some failures, particularly when you produce at the volume of Miyata, but based on my experience Miyata probably had one of the lowest failure rates of all the manufacturers.

Koga Miyata has recently opened an office in the USA, but these bicycles are labelled Koga Miyata and the logo has changed. I'm not aware of any source for original, vintage Miyata decals, which is why I am working on the artwork for some. If you are interested in getting a set, send me a Private Message.

I'm a newbie with another Miyata identification question for T-Mar. I've read past posts and see you are the expert for all things Miyata! I picked up a Two Ten at the local Goodwill and would like to know more about it. The serial number is ND32389. It is a very nice light blue color. Frame is triple butted cro-mo and manganese forks. The crank says Miyata Signature. It has triple chain rings and 5 cogs on the rear. The friction shift levers, front, and rear derailleur say Shimano but I don't see any model number. I'd be grateful for whatever info you can provide!

The Signature crankest was made for Miyata by SR. The serial number places it in the 1984-1986 timeframe but the crank and tubing narrow it down to 1985 or 1986. There were blue models in both years, so I can't narrow it down without further info or preferably a picture. The derailleurs are likely Shimano Light Action series. The model 210 was the bottom of three models in Miyata'a Grand Touring Series. However, there was also a Sports Series of entry level bicycles, so the 210 was actually more a low, mid-range model in the overall line-up. I don't have the orignal price, but based on similarly equipped models, it was probably around $300 US.

Thank you for responding, T-Mar.
By "assymetry', I meant that the non drive side crank was much farther away from the BB shell, than was the drive side crank, which seemed to be perfectly positioned. This was with the crankset I originally set up on the bike.

The frame came without a BB, so I can't tell what was in there, before. Currently, it's running a 113mm x 72mm (IIRC) Shimano cartridge BB, with some Campy cranks I picked up at a garage sale. With this crankset, here's a several millimeters of space between the cranks and the BB shell, but the chainline isn't too bad, and it rides very nicely as a daily commuter, so it'll probably stay like this, till other projects get completed. So far, I've spent more money on bar tape for it, than any other single part.

here's the bike, as it rolls, now. I did get the funny bend out of the rear brake cable. ;)
http://dirtdawgs.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10005/normal_310%20left.jpg


Truman, I'm sorry but I can't provide an answer. Based on your statement of asymmetry, I assume that you are talking about the overall spindle length? Unfortunately, the 310 used a variety of bottom brackets and cranks over it's lifespan. To complicate matters, the taper end width on vintage cranks and spindles were not standardized. Consequently, mixing cranks and bottom brackets will cause variations in the chainline and things get even messier if you try using new spindles with your old cups.

If you've had your old bottom bracket apart and know the make and number of the spindle, then it might be possible to predict which modern bottom bracket will provide the best match to the original chainline. If you don't have the tools to take things apart, then it's best to take it your LBS and let their mechanic do the matching.

The Signature crankest was made for Miyata by SR. The serial number places it in the 1984-1986 timeframe but the crank and tubing narrow it down to 1985 or 1986. There were blue models in both years, so I can't narrow it down without further info or preferably a picture. The derailleurs are likely Shimano Light Action series. The model 210 was the bottom of three models in Miyata'a Grand Touring Series. However, there was also a Sports Series of entry level bicycles, so the 210 was actually more a low, mid-range model in the overall line-up. I don't have the orignal price, but based on similarly equipped models, it was probably around $300 US.
Thanks very much! Now I'm wondering is it worth considering some upgrades to this bike? It seems to have not been ridden much, is in good shape, and fun to ride. I'm considering upgrading the brake pads, levers, and replacing the brake cables. I'm new to this and don't know if it is possible to change things like parts of the drivetrain, or is it even worth it? Am I going to gain performance (smoother shifting, etc)? Would I be better served by looking for one of the higher models in the line? Do the higher models have "better" frames or components? Sorry for all the questions, this sport/hobby is becoming addictive.

Thank you for responding, T-Mar.
By "assymetry', I meant that the non drive side crank was much farther away from the BB shell, than was the drive side crank, which seemed to be perfectly positioned. This was with the crankset I originally set up on the bike.


The frame itself was probably not built with an assymetry. If you can identify what specific make + model your cranks are, you should be able to find out what width bottom bracket you need. The frame should have little impact on this. (assuming everything is well aligned, properly dished wheels, etc).

The frame itself was probably not built with an assymetry. If you can identify what specific make + model your cranks are, you should be able to find out what width bottom bracket you need. The frame should have little impact on this. (assuming everything is well aligned, properly dished wheels, etc).

That's good to know, and embarassingly, should have been obvious to me before now. I'll find out what model cranks are on there.

Is there a place I can look it up, or shall I just bring that information back here?

The model 210 was the bottom of three models in Miyata'a Grand Touring Series. However, there was also a Sports Series of entry level bicycles, so the 210 was actually more a low, mid-range model in the overall line-up. I don't have the orignal price, but based on similarly equipped models, it was probably around $300 US.

Data point - my 1988 Miyata 215ST (touring model) cost me just under $300 US on end of year clearance. It came equiped with "Signature" cranks.

John D.

Is there a place I can look it up, or shall I just bring that information back here?

Sheldon Brown has a bottom bracket width list, albeit a pretty anemic one. Bring it back here, and maybe someone will know. Then send all the pertinent info to Sheldon so its available in the future.

.... Bianchi had a georgeous Electric Rose on their high end models as an alternative to Celeste. I remember similar colors on Colnago, Miele, Santini and Velosport, to name but a few.

It is funny you mention that Bianchi Electric Rose color as there is a vagrant around here that rides one of these and it is gorgeous. I only see him when I am driving, but if I ever am on foot/bike, I am definetely going to ask him if he would part with it. In fact, it was with that beautiful color in mind that I purchased this Miyata....it is a fantastic pale shad of pink, sadly not as fantastic as that Bianchi Rose, but close. Here are the pics, I wish this frame were my size but it is a 54 and the lowest I could ever go is a 57. Too bad, as I think this bike is great for 45$. Maybe I will put it up on eBay, pink Japanese Kierins go for mucho dineros, maybe a pink road bike will too ;) :) The rear wheel on the bike now is just for riding around the 'hood as the one that came with it is in pretty rough shape. Again, thanks for all your help T-Mar ;)


http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/871/miyatafront3cy.jpg
http://fapomatic.com/61/miyata_side.jpg

What is the differnece between the 512 frame and the 914 frame? They are both triple butted right?

Does anyone know the generic Miyata naming protocol? I'm assuming that it starts at 100 and increases in quality to 1000.

What is the differnece between the 512 frame and the 914 frame? They are both triple butted right?

Does anyone know the generic Miyata naming protocol? I'm assuming that it starts at 100 and increases in quality to 1000.

To answer the question properly, I need to know the specific model year(s) that we are talking about. However, both bicycles are in the Miyata mid-range series, use the same basic geometry and were intended for avid cyclists, triathletes and novice competitors. The 914 has a STB (Spline Triple Butted) CrMo frame with CrMo stays and forks. While the 512 uses STB CrMo in the main triangle, depending on the year, it may have lower grade stays than the 914. There may also be a difference in the fittings.

As for the numbering system, the following is an edited version of one of my previous posts.

9x and 1xx series were sports/entry level bicycles.

2xx and 6xx series and the 1000 model were touring bicycles, with the level of bicycle increasing with first digit in the series.

3xx, 4xx, 5xx, 7xx, 9xx series were mid range competition/fitness bicycles. Again, the level of bicycle increasing with first digit in the series.

In general, a 2xx series touring bicycle would be roughly equivalent to a 3xx series competiton/fitness bicycle in terms of component levels, frame materials and value.

The top line, pro series, racing bicycles were generally given names, with the Team Miyata and Pro Miyata being the most common.

1xxx series and x000 series bicycles, with the notable exception of the 1000 touring model, were generally competition/fitness models with non-ferrous frames.

The above are general rules of thumb. There are exceptions. You may have noted the missing 8xx series. I've never seen one. You would think that based on the even numbered series, that it would be a touring model. It would also be reasonable to assume the same of the 4xx series, but the sole example that I've seen was a mid range, competition/fitness model.

Most people feel that the last two digits in a three digit model number indicates the number of gears. While this is true in many cases, there are so many exceptions that I do not consider it a valid rule of thumb.

T-Mar,

Where would we be w/o you? :)

I don't think I've seen a thread with so many questions asked of and answered by one person.

Good thing b/c about all I know about Miyata is how to spell it (and what I read in your replies :) )


:beer: