Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Been a while since we had a good old-fashioned lock thread...chain or 2 minis?

I'm pretty sure I understand the merits of each. Just kinda interested in what you guys think.

I'm (hopefully) just a few hours away from having a set of wheels worth stealin (deep Vs, Phil double fixed rear, Surly front). Right now I just put a Krypto mini through the rear wheel within the stays, Sheldon-style, and I've got this weird skewer in front that I got at Performance that takes an allen wrench on one side and a crescent on the other to stabilize it. Fine for the crappy front wheel now, but the new one's worth the minimal effort it would take to defeat that.

So, I'm kind of down to either getting another Mini, and locking the front wheel to something as well as the back (best case) or the frame (less-good case). Or, I can get the big ol' Krypto belt-chain for about $60, which everyone says fits through the frame and both wheels. Which would you do?

2 minis is a lot lighter.

I'd do two mini's over a chain anyday. I just can't deal with the weight or putting it around my waist.

I have a mini with a cable for quick stops and for long stops, I have a mini, the cable and a NY u-lock.

I am certainly paranoid about my gear.

I'd do two mini's over a chain anyday. I just can't deal with the weight or putting it around my waist.

I have a mini with a cable for quick stops and for long stops, I have a mini, the cable and a NY u-lock.

I am certainly paranoid about my gear.

If it keeps those wheels on your bike, it's good enough for mine.

Anyone have any experience getting a Mini keyed to another one? I know that Krypto does this, but all I've found online is "contact your retailer" or something along those lines.

I have a mini and cable. Used to just carry the mini, but its gotten worse and you cant not lock everything up. I know the cable will not stop'em but its better then no cable.

And for the record, we all think that this is a better idea than the Onguard locking skewer in the front, right?

i do. who has the best price on the krypto mini's eh?

I got mine from this place, bicyclesource.us. They seemed totally crazy and disorganized, and you have to leave a message and get called back (days later) if you want any kind of customer service. But, what can I say, they've got 'em for $45.

http://bicyclesource.us/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2717

It's the round key in the pic, but they did send the new flat key model.

I bet I'm going to have to go through the company and pay whatever ridiculous list price it is to get them keyed alike. And that would take forever. I'll probably just flex the Chicagoland Bike Fed discount somewhere and deal with the inelegance of two keys.

http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47893895&parent_category_rn=4500826
It's the onguard mini not the kryptonite, but it's only $18

wouldn't it be relatively easy to get a hub stolen by someone just clipping all of the spokes with a bolt cutter ??

wouldn't it be relatively easy to get a hub stolen by someone just clipping all of the spokes with a bolt cutter ??

actually you don't even need bolt cutters to do it. sidecutters or even most needle nose pliers would do it fine. this is assuming you don't have some fancy roadie rims with like 6 of those thick bladed spokes

wouldn't it be relatively easy to get a hub stolen by someone just clipping all of the spokes with a bolt cutter ??

That's a wee bit paranoid

That's a wee bit paranoid

Paranoia (and reason) goes out the window once you see a bike get its stem peeled apart with a crowbar so the thief can make off with the handlebar setup.

- eyefloater

wouldn't it be relatively easy to get a hub stolen by someone just clipping all of the spokes with a bolt cutter ??

I'm pretty sure that this is what spoke fluid is designed to prevent.
C

does anyone know if you can buy two minis that are keyed alike?

paranoid yeah, but I have heard stories of it happening. unconfirmed friend of a friend type stories, but stories of it happening none the less. Obviously not common, bike thieves like speed.

my own personal paranoia, developed after numerous bike thefts, has be using both a krypto chain and onguard mini. Two different manufactures if they try to pick the locks (although I've never actually heard of this happening) and two different styles of locks so they can't use the same attack. Might switch to mini + big cable, but I've actually gotten to the point where I don't even notice the chain at all, put it on and forget about it.

that and I might be the only person out there who cares about locked bike aesthetics. A mini solo obviously looks great. But two minis? that looks sort of clunky. Any ulock front to frame looks bad by me actually. Mini + cable looks good though, and chain through both wheels plus a mini is pretty elegant and about as safe as it gets.

i've been looking at the handcuff locks.
they seem gimmicky at first, but in fact are actually pretty sturdy.

how about a mini and the cuffs?
thats a good one two combo, neh?

that and I might be the only person out there who cares about locked bike aesthetics...

yes, I think you are.

But as long as you're stuff isn't getting jacked, +1 to you and your stuff for looking good in the process.

I like to carry a small street urchin around in my oversized and stylish mess bag, and pay him to watch my bike while I'm inside having a couple of beers, or whatever. Lighter and cheaper than a chain, etc.

i've been looking at the handcuff locks.
they seem gimmicky at first, but in fact are actually pretty sturdy.

how about a mini and the cuffs?
thats a good one two combo, neh?

I've heard bad things about the cuffs, they are heavy as hell for the size and are fairly easy to break.
I use a kryto chain and a cheap cable for the front. My bike is locked outside all day long so I'm just not sure if a kryptomini would hold up. I still have to theft-proof my bolts so the rest doesn't get stolen.

On-Guard chain + American bodega lock for front wheel/frame. Old chain in an innertube for the seat. Krypto NY lock for rear wheel/frame/through the chainring.

So funny having a 17-18lb bike and more than that in devices to keep it from getting stolen.

http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47893895&parent_category_rn=4500826
It's the onguard mini not the kryptonite, but it's only $18

How are these on guard locks? What's that little switch looking thingy? Half the price of a krypto but not really where you want to cut corners.

Anyone have one of these?

OnGuard are founded from former employees of Kryptonite, or so I'm told.

Their popularity arose post-Krytonite-Bicopalypse. They're ART rated, which is a great thing, seem really sturdy, use flat keys and are a lot cheaper. Even though I use Krypto's (got all three of mine replaced), I wouldn't hesitate to pick one up at that price point.

The only thing I've heard of concern is their key weakness. A while ago, it was apparently quite easy to snap one of the keys they gave you -- and they have you FIVE.

I'm not sure if this is still a problem or not.

From talks with people though, it would seem that people still prefer Kryptonite over an OnGuard even when they have an OnGuard - the brand and name, despite the Bicopalypse, still runs deep.

I have 2 of those OnGuard mini's. I think they work fine. I lock my ride everywhere
and don't worry much about it (knocks on wood...)

wouldn't it be relatively easy to get a hub stolen by someone just clipping all of the spokes with a bolt cutter ??

if you want to be this paranoid about things, then you shouldn't be locking your bike up anywhere.

unless they can build wheels or are looking to hock high-end hubs on ebay, a stand-alone hub is not worth much to most bike thieves.

i hear of stems, bars and seatposts getting jacked, but i've never heard of someone's hub being cut out. not saying it hasn't happened, it's just not something i'd ever worry about.



actually you don't even need bolt cutters to do it. sidecutters or even most needle nose pliers would do it fine. this is assuming you don't have some fancy roadie rims with like 6 of those thick bladed spokes

cutting tensioned spokes off a wheel with a small cutter or needle nose pliers is extremely difficult (trust me!). you need big cutters with some leverage.

wouldn't it be relatively easy to get a hub stolen by someone just clipping all of the spokes with a bolt cutter ??

It's pretty easy to clothesline a rider, punch them in the head, and take off with their entire bike. Maybe you could use a NY chain to lock yourself to the bike. But damn, we still have insecure hubs.

I've heard bad things about the cuffs, they are heavy as hell for the size and are fairly easy to break.
I use a kryto chain and a cheap cable for the front. My bike is locked outside all day long so I'm just not sure if a kryptomini would hold up. I still have to theft-proof my bolts so the rest doesn't get stolen.

I had / have the cuff locks. They're not that heavy, and definitely sturdy. The two real problems with them are that the keys wear out very quickly (they're brass, which is pretty soft - I wore through the sides of both keys they gave in only a year and a half of semi-heavy use - just commuting), and they use a tubular lock design that is suceptible to the whole bic-pen thing, despite what MasterLock might claim (unless they've finally changed to a flat key).

Couriers I know who use them get the keys replaced a couple times a year (lifetime warranty, so no cost).

I have the OnGuard pitbull mini, and really love it. The only issue I have with it is that it doesn't fit around some of the enorrmous over-sized meters here in Montreal. Otherwise, it's a great lock. he keys seem sturdy to me, and they still include 5. The switch-thing by the key hole is a keyhole cover. I taped mine in the open position, as I just found it annoying.

I have a couple OnGuards. The only bad thing I've heard about them is the lock mechanism can jam. One of the Pirates had this happen on a run,when he was locked to another bike. They did manage to get it open finally. I also had one that took a couple tries to open. Ever since these incidents,I've been real careful about inserting the key properly and turning it all the way before removing it,and I haven't had any probs.

Otherwise,they seem like a good deal. Cheaper than brand K,with good ratings.

I had / have the cuff locks. They're not that heavy, and definitely sturdy.

So... Not to scare anyone, but you can break those cuff locks with your hands.

Say you have the lock attached to a pole on one end, and your top tube on the other. Lift up bike, rotate middle chain piece so you are pushing against the chain in the way that it doesn't want to bend, and go. The chain links in between the cuffs break, and you now have a bike with a single handcuff thing around the top tube... Whcih you can then ride home with and cut off with some sort of angle grinder.

Seriously, I've broken those locks with my bare hands by just leaning on it without the bike in there. The bike just adds to the leverage and makes it really, really easy. I'd rethink your lock choices...

-brad

My inner city neighborhood has lots of steel poles with diameters of two or three inches. Mini U-locks work very well...around the rear wheel and around a pole.

My front wheels have allen bolts instead of quick releases. If I'm in a unsafe area, I use a cable lock for the front wheels. I'd only use a second U-lock for the front wheels in a REALLY rough area, or if the bike will be in a public area late at night.

Carrying an eight pound chain (which is what the best chains weigh) is far too much work for me. But, some messengers like them because you can always find something to lock to, including a telephone pole.

brad, you're an animal
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
seriously though,
who ripps locks in half?
oh ,, oh ,, i know
brad does


The only bad thing I've heard about them is the lock mechanism can jam. One of the Pirates had this happen on a run,when he was locked to another bike.

that was ******** annoying!!
its happened to me another time with a different onGuard lock
their tumblers can't be built very well
people be warned!!!

welp im at the lbs right now with the master lock bike cuffs in my hand and all i have to say is devolution... you must be the strongest man ever. My LBS told me to try my best laughing at me the whole time. They told me if i could break it with my bare hands they would give me the pretty orbea hangin on the wall. I wasnt even close.

The Master cuffs failed tests at two bike magazines, and at SoldSecure. It can be opened in seconds by a crook that understands the design.

Master is ALSO the company that refused to exchange its round key locks. Told its customers to take a hike. It also sells a couple of U-locks that can be open by children in under one minute using a tool found in the trunk of every motor vehicle.

Master Lock is a bike thief's best friend. Consumer fraud specialists, pretending to be in the "security" business.

Problems with new flat key locks that "freeze up? The 2005 Kryptonite and OnGuard locks share the same locking mechanism. Inside the keyway, there are plates that rotate. This "rotating" plate design makes the locks difficult to pick. When ALL of the plates are aligned, there is a open, smooth sided key slot that goes to the bottom of the mechanism. Insert the key ALL THE WAY down, and the key turn easily and the lock opens.

However, if you begin to turn the key before the key has reached the bottom plate, you are putting the top plates out of aligment with the bottom plate. The lock will not open. You may not be able to remove the key. If you "force" the key, it will break off in the keyway. This design is on BOTH Kryptonite and OnGuard locks.

To realign the plates, gently remove the key. Insert the tip of the key in just a tad, and twist the top plate into alignment with the second plate. Then align the second plate with the third plate. When all of the plates are aligned, you will see a open "box" with smooth sides that extends to the bottom of the keyway. Insert the key all the way to the bottom, and the lock will easily open.

The new Kryptonite and OnGuard locks have red "stickers" warning people to insert the key to the bottom before turning the key. However, their written instructions do NOT tell you how to realign the plates. If you practice misaligning and realigning the plates while sitting at the kitchen table, you will quickly learn the technique...just takes ten seconds after you have done it a couple of times.

This is a great conversation you've started chicagoamdream! Interesting reading.
Just wanted to clarify about the founders of OnGuard coming from Kryptonite....we've heard this a lot, absntr, but it simply isn't true. Sorry!
Now as for locking choices....well....Fahgettaboudit. :)

This is a great conversation you've started chicagoamdream! Interesting reading.
Just wanted to clarify about the founders of OnGuard coming from Kryptonite....we've heard this a lot, absntr, but it simply isn't true. Sorry!
Now as for locking choices....well....Fahgettaboudit. :)

Hey, Kryptonite Lock! You're welcome! Want to offer me a kickback since I started a thread where the only two reasonable options I offered were your products?

Seriously though, how much does it cost/how long does it take to get a Evolution Mini keyed to one you already have?

Also, for the record, I'm with Brenner. I'm not too concerned about anyone snipping out my hub. If anyone in Chicago were to do it, I'm sure I'd be able to find them on this board. One of the reasons I went with a Surly in the front (less-protected end) of this wheelset (which isn't ACTUALLY going to be ready until next week, %$#!!) was to make it less appealing for theft. Of course, that's all relative.

I'm pretty sure that this is what spoke fluid is designed to prevent.
C


yeah but so easy to forget to top it off when changing a wheel and then your facked

Just wanted to clarify about the founders of OnGuard coming from Kryptonite....we've heard this a lot, absntr, but it simply isn't true. Sorry!


All good. I only use your products anyway. ;)

if you want to be this paranoid about things, then you shouldn't be locking your bike up anywhere.

unless they can build wheels or are looking to hock high-end hubs on ebay, a stand-alone hub is not worth much to most bike thieves.

i hear of stems, bars and seatposts getting jacked, but i've never heard of someone's hub being cut out. not saying it hasn't happened, it's just not something i'd ever worry about.




cutting tensioned spokes off a wheel with a small cutter or needle nose pliers is extremely difficult (trust me!). you need big cutters with some leverage.


trust me i've done it, use both hands
but whatever

yeah but so easy to forget to top it off when changing a wheel and then your facked


True, who carries spoke fluid around anymore?

C

Krypto chain and lock and a Krypto mini, every lock up. That is the only way I feel good about it. I am still using a round key model on my chain lock. I took it to numerous LBS's and they told me that my 1998 model did not need replacing. I am going to buy a new one, soon.

As a bike messenger that does not want to lug around a ten pound chain, I always carry the krypto mini evo and gorgon cable with me. Depending on where I am and where I have to secure my bike, I either use the mini alone or the two together. I almost never use the gorgon cable lock alone. For those of you not familiar with the Gorgon, it is the thickest cable lock offered by Kryptonite, 20mm diameter and 76cm long. If I were to leave it overnight I would use a Krypto NYC lock together with the other two.

I have tried both mini locks, and the OnGuard doesn't fit in my back pocket as well as the Kryptonite. I don't like lugging a lot of stuff around so I just use the one lock and locking skewers on a relatively low end bike and hope for the best.

My cheapo OnGuard Bullldog Mini seems secure enough, but it inadvertantly ended up scratching the piss out of the paint on my frame. I lock down tube + rear wheel + signpost very often. The right-angle notch on the shackle's been digging paint down to the metal, and I didn't notice it until rust showed up. D'oh!

Now I gotta blot some ugly rust-oleum on there. Uncool.

Oh, and when I'm without a bag-- my Bulldog Mini fits nicely in my belt. I let out one notch and tuck the shackle in the slack between belt loops. If it's gonna be a long / fast / drunk ride...I just tighten my belt to secure.

The cuffs can be defeated with cutters that will fit in my pocket, just cut the connecting chain and deal with the haning cuff part later. It took 36" cutters and 12 seconds of my 200 lbs bouncing to get through a krypto when my partner's bike got jacked.

You can get matching kryptos direct from the company (at least you could a couple years back) by registering your lock (using the number on the key) and requesting more with that keying. My messenger company has about 15 kryptos keyed the same and all riders carry a key so that we can use bikes/trailers that are locked up in different parts of town.

My messenger company has about 15 kryptos keyed the same and all riders carry a key so that we can use bikes/trailers that are locked up in different parts of town.
That's clever. Do you guys lock your own bikes with those as well? That'd be a good recipe for some really harsh practical jokes;)

I'm thinking, for the time being, that I'll pick up a cable that I can attach and lock with the mini--so, one without a lock/closure mechanism of its own. Anyone got a cool way to carry this without a bag, a la mini in the back pocket? Maybe just clip it closed somehow and wear it across the chest?

carabeiner?

duct tape?