Stop Signs

[firemanrob]

What is it with "cyclists" and stop signs? I work in an extremely high traffic area for cyclists and I have only seen about 10% at best obey traffic laws (Stops signs, passing laws, and even speeding!). Bicyclists should police themselves since Law enforcement apparently won't do it. You (the lawbreaking element of cycling) drive me to the point of cheering when I get dispatched to a "cyclist down". Very frustrating. If you leave your sense of entitlement at home, I may do the same. See you on the pavement.

[nova]

Im one of the 10% who do obey laws. I doubt its that extream probably the opisit is true. Your just human and more apt to notice thoose who run lights stop signs etc. As for speeding depending on the conditions its kind of hard not to. I hit about 35+ (guesstament) going down the fairly large or long grade hills here where i live. To obey a 25mph speed limit such as in silver creek park would mean riding my breaks down the hill.

This is not a good idea on a bike as you get alot of break fade and if you should need your breaks to come to a stop before they can cool down they would be alot less effective. Also remember speed limits are set based on a 1 to 2 ton car truck etc based on distance needed to come to a full stop. A bike doing 35 or even 45 mph can stop in as short a distance as a car doing 25 or 30. We got alot less mass to stop than a typical car. Not saying a cyclist should speed if its avoidable but that they should not try to keep at or under the limit if it might cause us to get hurt.
Ive had my breaks get to the point where i could not stop at all. It felt like I had no pads left at all.

[firemanrob]

Nice excuses.

Sounds like if your vehicle (bike) cannot safely obey the traffic laws such as "speed limits", without suffering some sort of mechanical failure, then your vehicle is not safe for the road. I will concede that bikes can stop faster than cars, but the mass issue is arguable. Vehicles with more mass simply have larger braking surfaces. This is not an excuse to disobey traffic laws. And, the 90% thing--yeah I'm right about that. We have a stop sign outside the window and I just counted nine out of ten cyclists not stopping.

[Az B]

Do you get this riled up about people that have 11 items in the express lane? While there is a basis to your arguments, your attitude towards "downed bikers" is pathetic. You have no idea what the circumstances are, but you allow yourself a moment of pleasure at the expense of the pain of another human being based simply on your self righteous indignation.

Good job. I'm glad most firemen are not like you.

Az

[CommuterRun]

I don't stop at every Stop sign anymore. I used to when I was riding in Okinawa and cars were everywhere, but now all my riding is done on the rural highways of north Florida. There are many times when you can pull up to an intersection and not have a car in sight in any direction, and sometimes when you do see one he's so far away the Stop sign is irrelevent. So I ask you. What is the point in stopping under these circumstances?

If you are finding pleasure in the pain of others I suggest seeking professional help. The stress of your job may be getting to you.

[nova]

Do you get this riled up about people that have 11 items in the express lane? While there is a basis to your arguments, your attitude towards "downed bikers" is pathetic. You have no idea what the circumstances are, but you allow yourself a moment of pleasure at the expense of the pain of another human being based simply on your self righteous indignation.

Good job. I'm glad most firemen are not like you.

Az


Speed limits need to be modified to reflect all types of vehicals instead of just cars and trucks. We all know a semi can not stop in same distance as a car and the highway speed limits in some areas asign them a lower limit do to this. It only makes sence to me that the same considerations be applied to cyclists and infact to a lesser degree motor cycles that also have far less mass than a car. Say 5 mph more than cars for motorcycles and 10 for bikes.

Lets remember something here speed limits are ment to increase our safty. As cyclists a to low speed limit on a hill increases our chances of accidents. Same is true to a lesser extent for motorcyles. They can also experiance a great deal of brake fade if they must ride their breaks (lesser degree as they use disk breaks and metalic pads that bleed heat off and are less effected by heat build up).

As for the original poster he will carry the lable of troll motorist un till he proves other wise..

Clues to this his reg date is today and his first post and secound are both anti bike. Most likly some one who likes to harrass cyclists and thinks its a sport to do so.
In my many years as moderator for both games and forums ive become quite good at profiling such people :)

Just ignore my grammer mistakes and spelling errors heh

[nova]

Nice excuses.

Sounds like if your vehicle (bike) cannot safely obey the traffic laws such as "speed limits", without suffering some sort of mechanical failure, then your vehicle is not safe for the road. I will concede that bikes can stop faster than cars, but the mass issue is arguable. Vehicles with more mass simply have larger braking surfaces. This is not an excuse to disobey traffic laws. And, the 90% thing--yeah I'm right about that. We have a stop sign outside the window and I just counted nine out of ten cyclists not stopping.


Want to know how many jackass motorists ive watched tare through stop signs and lights or pass to close to other vehicals bikes and cars included?

Today moron in red work pick up with a tool box cap blew on by me about 6 inches from me took a turn to fast nearly putting it in a ditch took his secound turn to fast again nearly in a ditch took his 3rd to fast and did put it in a ditch. Results truck heading to junk yard landed upside down and me well i colected some tools strewn about on the road between first turn and after crash. Got me a nice set of allen keys (snap on full set x 2 one folding one t handled a set of craftsment renches metric ones and a partial set of standard. Also got me a realy nice partial socket set a matco with the right sizes for my crank) He was to busy cussing out the person whos yard and ditch he ruined like it was their fault.

Im going back in the morning to see what other goodies are left behind.....

[CB HI]

I've seen alot of Honolulu fireman and police breaking traffic laws. I had to sue the City to stop fireman from illegally doing group runs on the bike path.

Do you think I should cheer each time I hear of a fireman or police officer being injured?

[nova]

I've seen alot of Honolulu fireman and police breaking traffic laws. I had to sue the City to stop fireman from illegally doing group runs on the bike path.

Do you think I should cheer each time I hear of a fireman or police officer being injured?

Na he dont only if they are a bike cop or something.......

[ItsJustMe]

I obey all the traffic rules whether on bike or car, other than a couple of stop signs that are on always-deserted areas where I can see 1/2 mile down the crossroad and I don't want to lose momentum. Even there I'd stop if there were any traffic.

I'd like to point out however, that I don't think I could find even 1 out of 10 CARS that obey the traffic laws. In my car, when I'm sticking to the speed limit, I get a lineup of 20 cars behind me in very short order. If I actually stop completely at stop signs, I nearly get rearended if there's anyone anywhere near my tail, and I often get honked at. If I go the speed limit on the expressway, I get cars flowing around me like water around a rock in a stream, and if I have to pass someone, I'll have 50 cars behind me, pissed off, before I can get around one semi. It's not uncommon to look in my rearview and have a car approaching me at 20mph or more faster than I'm going.

Not saying it's an excuse, I'm just saying that I don't think there are more than 10% of drivers of ANY kind of vehicles (except maybe school busses) that actually obey they traffic laws.

Look at the wheels of the cars as they go through that stop sign. I bet they hardly ever stop turning. At least half the cars I see going through stop signs don't even slow to less than 10 mph, and the only time I *EVER* see the wheels actually stop turning is if there's cross traffic present.

[oboeguy]

Which one of these are you?

http://www.funtasticnovelties.com/itemsimages/troll%20-%201.5.jpg

[Little Darwin]

I stop at lights and signs on my bike, but have to concentrate to do it in a car.

Sit at an intersection and watch the cars. You could sit for an hour and not see one come to a complete stop. although many will get close...

And as far as someone's suggestion of different speed limits for different vehicles... No thanks, it is bad enough out there already. :)

[John Wilke]

What is it with "cyclists" and stop signs? I work in an extremely high traffic area for cyclists and I have only seen about 10% at best obey traffic laws (Stops signs, passing laws, and even speeding!). .

Cyclists? Make that PEOPLE.

I just sat by the window and counted 50 cars going through the 4 way residential stop on my corner. *ONE* car came to a full stop, fourty nine rolled through at various speeds irregardless of how many cars were in the intersection at the time.

Gee, I wonder how many stuck to the 25mph speed limit???

John Wilke
Milwaukee

[Halfstep]

I totally concur with ItsJustMe's comments. Everyone who knows me says I'm anal retentive (I prefer fastidious and precise but my wife says this only confirms everyone's original assessment). I routinely see a line of cars building up behind me as I pass (at 70mph) a slower vehicle and always watch my rearview mirror at a stop sign to make sure the person behind me is paying attention. These observations lead to the obvious question: WHAT'S THE HURRY!?! Trust me, if you're driving as fast as you can so you're not late to wherever it is your going, you're still going to be late, just not as late as you would be otherwise.

Now, that's not to say there aren't time savings to be had. Let's look at an example: a five mile drive across the city (maybe to a soccer game, maybe to a lunch meeting, who cares). Travelling an average of 40mph, it will take more than seven minutes, and that doesn't even take into account the time it takes to come to a complete stop at the stop signs. If you can increase your speed by even 5mph, you can shave a whole fifty seconds off your trip. Roll through some stop signs, and you might even shave off several more seconds. Of course, the real trick to saving time when driving through town is to catch the traffic lights just right, or if you can't, to follow the advice of the Starman, "Green means go. Red means stop. Yellow means go very fast."

Saving time driving through town is all well and good, but to really spend less time in your car you have to commit to high speeds on the highway. Let's use another example: a 100 mile trip to grandma's (yes, this time it does matter where we're going, grandma misses us). At 60mph, you will travel 60 miles every hour or one mile every minute. So, your 100 mile trip to see grandma will take 100 minutes, or 1 hour and 40 minutes. At 70mph, you will travel one mile approximately every 51 seconds. So, grandma will only have to wait 1 hour and 25 minutes. You just saved grandma 15 minutes of worrying!

To really get some time saving benefits on the highway, though, we have to enter the realm of exceeding the speed limit. Let's save grandma from more worrying. At 75mph, you'll travel one mile every 48 seconds, rushing you to grandma's house in just 1 hour and twenty minutes. Five more minutes of cheek-pinching fun! At 80mph, you'll travel one mile every 45 seconds, barreling down the road in 1 hour and 15 minutes. You can use the extra ten minutes to clean grandma's gutters.

So, while not exactly precise, one can see a five minute savings for every 5mph over the speed limit. But an exact time equals savings because time is money correlation can't be used across the board. Everyone's time is worth different amounts of money. At $9.00/hr, five minutes is only worth 75¢. At $10.00/hr, five minutes is worth 83¢ and at $11.00/hr, five minutes is worth 92¢. It isn't until $12.00/hr that we hit the $1.00 per five minute mark.

What does all this mean? It leads to only one possible conclusion: Drive faster. You'll get to your meeting on time, impress your boss, make more money, drive faster, get to your meeting early, impress the client, take their job offer, make more money, drive faster. Of course, none of this is real money. You'll put most of your increased earnings into a retirement account and you buy gas with a credit card. You'll still have that tenspot in your wallet.

Thank goodness. Now you can buy that king-extra-biggy sized "value" meal.

[timmhaan]

i will never stop at a stop sign unless there is traffic coming. i do feel entitled to do that no matter what the law says.

[steve_wmn]

Sit at an intersection and watch the cars. You could sit for an hour and not see one come to a complete stop. although many will get close...

Most will do what's called a "California Stop", where they almost but not quite stop, check both ways and then roll through and accelerate if the cross-street is clear. I do exactly the same thing on my bike. The problem is it's more noticable when a biker doesn't really stop since you're only slowing from 20 mph to 5mph instead of 45 to 5 mph like the cars.

[Ritehsedad]

So firemanrob, what bikes do you ride?

[firemanrob]

I've seen alot of Honolulu fireman and police breaking traffic laws. I had to sue the City to stop fireman from illegally doing group runs on the bike path.

Do you think I should cheer each time I hear of a fireman or police officer being injured?


I'm sure you are still counting on recieving top notch patient care on that bike path too!

[firemanrob]

Cyclists? Make that PEOPLE.

I just sat by the window and counted 50 cars going through the 4 way residential stop on my corner. *ONE* car came to a full stop, fourty nine rolled through at various speeds irregardless of how many cars were in the intersection at the time.

Gee, I wonder how many stuck to the 25mph speed limit???

John Wilke
Milwaukee


I'n not in any way releasing motorists from thier responsibility. We've all seen how bad it gets when a 3000 pound car runs a stop sign or red light.

[noisebeam]

Also remember speed limits are set based on a 1 to 2 ton car truck etc based on distance needed to come to a full stop. A bike doing 35 or even 45 mph can stop in as short a distance as a car doing 25 or 30. We got alot less mass to stop than a typical car.
Well your wrong on this. A modern car can stop faster than an upright bike when traveling at the same speed. Also speed limits are not set based on stopping distances, they are set on a number of factors including grades, curves, sightlines, lane widths, environment (i.e. residential, urban, rural)

Al

[joejack951]

Well your wrong on this. A modern car can stop faster than an upright bike when traveling at the same speed. Also speed limits are not set based on stopping distances, they are set on a number of factors including grades, curves, sightlines, lane widths, environment (i.e. residential, urban, rural)

Al

Thank you for mentioning that. It always annoys me to hear people say a bike can stop faster than a car. The difference between bikes and cars is that all that mass in the car contributes to keeping the car on the ground and generates massive friction between the tires and the road. Cars won't do an endo because the front brakes locked either (longer wheelbase and lower center of gravity helps here too).

And I have to agree that if you can't stop at the bottom of a hill for a stop sign then you are going too fast. Either slow down or get better brakes for your bike.

Fireman is obviously just looking to cause trouble so it's probably best to divert this thread onto a new topic.

[timmhaan]

in an emergency, bikes have relatively poor stopping capabilities. at least with pull brakes.

[Avatar]

Well your wrong on this. A modern car can stop faster than an upright bike when traveling at the same speed. Also speed limits are not set based on stopping distances, they are set on a number of factors including grades, curves, sightlines, lane widths, environment (i.e. residential, urban, rural)

Al

And a cyclist has to worry about flying off his bike when braking quickly.

[PaulH]

Also remember speed limits are set based on a 1 to 2 ton car truck etc based on distance needed to come to a full stop. A bike doing 35 or even 45 mph can stop in as short a distance as a car doing 25 or 30. We got alot less mass to stop than a typical car. Not saying a cyclist should speed if its avoidable but that they should not try to keep at or under the limit if it might cause us to get hurt.
Ive had my breaks get to the point where i could not stop at all. It felt like I had no pads left at all.

Quick calculation assuming 45 mph, zero reaction time, and constant deceleration . Sheldon Brown states that bikes can stop at .6 g; a quick look at road test results suggests thst .9 g is a good figure for a car.

Bike = 113 feet to stop
Car = 76 feet to stop

at 15 mph:

Bike = 13 feet to stop
Car = 9 feet to stop

None of this implies that we should be tolerant toward motorists who do fast rolling stops or blow lights. The car's greater mass and larger cross sectional area still make it a significant threat.

Paul

[LittleBigMan]

You (the lawbreaking element of cycling) drive me to the point of cheering when I get dispatched to a "cyclist down". Very frustrating. If you leave your sense of entitlement at home, I may do the same. See you on the pavement.
This is the kind of "public servant" we could do very well without.

I am a law-abiding cyclist who was attacked by a pedestrian an hit the pavement face-first. I find your comments heartless and foolish. I wonder if maybe you are really a teenager playing some kind of sick joke?

"Firemanrob," if you are indeed a real paramedic, you should consider a different line of work, perhaps working at McDonald's.

[dan828]

I'm sure you are still counting on recieving top notch patient care on that bike path too!

Of course he is, and he should expect to, because after all, that is what you are paid to do, isn't it?

Are you really saying that because this person insisted that firemen obey the law on the bike path, that the firemen will provide less than adequate care to any cyclists injured on that path? Frankly, your posts thus far have made you look overly emotional and reflect badly on your fellow firemen. And I say this being a four year veteran of the US Coast Guard. Never in my life would I suggest that someone is undeserving of full professional rescue services for any reason-- and that you are saying such in an immature emotional outburst in a public forum is ridiculous. You appear to have a temperament not suited to your current line of work. How about you let us know your location and who you work for? I'll forward your postings to your department and let them see what they think about it. You obviously need to have a talk with some senior people in your department so that they can talk some sense into you.

[Merriwether]

I'm sure you are still counting on recieving top notch patient care on that bike path too!

Um...yeah, he's expecting the emergency services to do their jobs, yes. I'm sure that's a lot to ask, what with the firemen having been reminded that they too have to obey the law and jog where only it's legal. I guess that's just another way noble public servants like firemen have to go above and beyond the call of duty, though, right?

[jfmckenna]

Seriously folks the best way to be rid of a troll is to not post at all in reply. I understand the irony in me posting. But he will leave, trust me, if every one of his trolling posts go unanswered.

[firemanrob]

This is the kind of "public servant" we could do very well without.

I am a law-abiding cyclist who was attacked by a pedestrian an hit the pavement face-first. I find your comments heartless and foolish. I wonder if maybe you are really a teenager playing some kind of sick joke?

"Firemanrob," if you are indeed a real paramedic, you should consider a different line of work, perhaps working at McDonald's.

If you were innocent in this attack then you have my sympathy. The simple fact is that the majority of the cyclist down calls we get were the direct result of a cyclist sppeding down a grade, running a stop sign, and alot of cyclists running into pedestrians. You recieve the same professional care as anyone else, just don't be surprised when the sympathy has run out.

[firemanrob]

Seriously folks the best way to be rid of a troll is to not post at all in reply. I understand the irony in me posting. But he will leave, trust me, if every one of his trolling posts go unanswered.


Actually I find this very therapudic. Maybe we can all be friends after I get everything off my chest.

[noisebeam]

IThe simple fact is that the majority of the cyclist down calls we get were the direct result of a cyclist sppeding down a grade, running a stop sign, and alot of cyclists running into pedestrians. You recieve the same professional care as anyone else, just don't be surprised when the sympathy has run out.
It is true that most cyclist accidents could have been avoided by the cyclist, even if not legally their fault. But as a person/troll who respond to accidents, I would expect that you should not be making judgements about fault and treat all individuals equally and let those involved in investigation do their job.

Al

[Helmet Head]

Many cyclists are elitist when it comes to feeling they are not beholden to obeying the vehicular rules of the road. Frankly, this probably stems from the reality that they pose much less of a risk of causing harm to others than do drivers of motor vehicles. Never-the-less, flaunting the law not only puts them at greater risk of being hit and injured or killed, it also makes other drivers lose respect for them. It's amazing how much more aware and respectful drivers are of my presence and needs when I act in accordance to the vehicular rules of the road. Just taking my place in line with them at a traffic light, instead of squeezing in on the side, makes a huge difference.

[nova]

Well i should be getting my bike computer in a couple days when i get it ill re ride the route i just did. Speed limits 40 and ill try to keep my speed to say 30 useing my breaks and will see just how close i can keep it to that speed. My guess is it wil be extreamly hard to with the monster grade. It grade 6 min with a grade 13 to 18 at the top.

Hopefully i dont have a heart attack on the route lol

[noisebeam]

Well i should be getting my bike computer in a couple days when i get it ill re ride the route i just did. Speed limits 40 and ill try to keep my speed to say 30 useing my breaks and will see just how close i can keep it to that speed. My guess is it wil be extreamly hard to with the monster grade. It grade 6 min with a grade 13 to 18 at the top.

Hopefully i dont have a heart attack on the route lol
One should always match the equipment to the environment. Just as one wouldn't use skinny tires in a mud bog, perhaps one should use disc brakes in very hilly areas.
Certain models of cars are not allowed to go up Mt. Washington road in NH since their brakes are not good enough.

Al

[firemanrob]

what really burns me more than anything is when i come to a four way stop and I get there before a cyclist, but instead of stopping, the cyclist jams right on through as I start to go. Then if you honk the cyclist gives you the finger! Thats what really irks me.

[firemanrob]

Of course he is, and he should expect to, because after all, that is what you are paid to do, isn't it?

Are you really saying that because this person insisted that firemen obey the law on the bike path, that the firemen will provide less than adequate care to any cyclists injured on that path? Frankly, your posts thus far have made you look overly emotional and reflect badly on your fellow firemen. And I say this being a four year veteran of the US Coast Guard. Never in my life would I suggest that someone is undeserving of full professional rescue services for any reason-- and that you are saying such in an immature emotional outburst in a public forum is ridiculous. You appear to have a temperament not suited to your current line of work. How about you let us know your location and who you work for? I'll forward your postings to your department and let them see what they think about it. You obviously need to have a talk with some senior people in your department so that they can talk some sense into you.

There is a difference between meeting your obligation to provide service and going the extra mile. All I'm saying is I might not be inclined to share my pepsi with you in the back of the ambulance. I enjoy my line of work, but when I see people do something stupid I come up short on sympathy. As far as where I work, not important. I'm just venting my cyclist frustrations here.

[scarry]

In Idaho bikes can legally treat stop signs as "yield".

You are a troll, aren't you.

[nova]

what really burns me more than anything is when i come to a four way stop and I get there before a cyclist, but instead of stopping, the cyclist jams right on through as I start to go. Then if you honk the cyclist gives you the finger! Thats what really irks me.

You know how often i come to a 4 way well before any car and cant get my right of way that im intitled to?
Cyclists pick up this bad habbit because if they dont just keep going and theres trafic we will never get through the intersection.
Yesterday on silver creek ride number 3 i had that happen i stoped as i always do if theres even a single car in site (i admit i dont stop when there is zero trafic. When i approach this intersection i can see for a solid 1/2 mile in front and to right and left so no trafic no stop) I got stuck for about few minutes because once the first car who did not allow me to take my right of way was followed by 6 to 8 cars in both directions. Not a single one of them stoped for me. Infact after the first right of way thief cleared the intersection i tried to make my legal left turn and nearly got hit for my effort by the secound car. He cussed me told me to get the f*** off the road like i was the one breaking the law.

So dont you preach to me about obeying laws. I obey every law that i possibly can while i watch cars break them all with no regards to the cyclist whos life they put in danger daily.

There are speed limits that are to low for a bike to realistically obey. I had rangers get me with radar guns and act like they are going to ticket me laughing. They know as most police do that a bike cant really be expected to keep their speed to 25 or in some cases 35 miles a hour on a large or long hill. We have to worry about break fade on such hills. Ive experianced that my self. I seen one bike that had smoke coming off the break pads once on a large hill.

While typing this 3 cars just did about 45 to 60 mph down my little back street with a speed limit of 25. Btw our street has a nice sign stating fines are doubled in this area. Guess the drivers dont give a crap do they?

Would be nice if we could but its just not possible in some cases. Maybe i could go with disc breaks. That would allow me to keep my speed down a bit better than reg caliper style breaks. But not to the point of holding my self to the speed limit.

[dan828]

There is a difference between meeting your obligation to provide service and going the extra mile. All I'm saying is I might not be inclined to share my pepsi with you in the back of the ambulance. I enjoy my line of work, but when I see people do something stupid I come up short on sympathy. As far as where I work, not important. I'm just venting my cyclist frustrations here.

You didn't say that. You basically said it made you happy every time you got a call with a "cyclist down," and implicit in that statement, since you couldn't possibly know the circumstances where the cyclist was injured, that whether or not he was at fault was irrelevant. Frankly, if you wanted to vent you could do it with your fellow firemen. What you came here to do was pick a fight with people that you knew would not be sympathetic to your cause.

Tell you what. Why don't you buy a cheap bike and go on a few rides around your town. Get some perspective.

[scarry]

You know how often i come to a 4 way well before any car and cant get my right of way that im intitled to?

While typing this 3 cars just did about 45 to 60 mph down my little back street with a speed limit of 25. Btw our street has a nice sign stating fines are doubled in this area. Guess the drivers dont give a crap do they?

Would be nice if we could but its just not possible in some cases. Maybe i could go with disc breaks. That would allow me to keep my speed down a bit better than reg caliper style breaks. But not to the point of holding my self to the speed limit.

Way to go nova ;)

[heckflosse]

Although I tend to think this thread was devised for trolling I though I'd add my thoughts.

As both a cyclist and a motorist I tend to think cyclists flaunt the law far more than motorists.
It's not unusual to see a cyclist running a light, mounting the pavement (sidewalk), passing on the inside or leaving the scene of an accident. Whilst motorists also break traffic laws they're less likely to knowing that they can be easily identified and reported.

[nova]

Although I tend to think this thread was devised for trolling I though I'd add my thoughts.

As both a cyclist and a motorist I tend to think cyclists flaunt the law far more than motorists.
It's not unusual to see a cyclist running a light, mounting the pavement (sidewalk), passing on the inside or leaving the scene of an accident. Whilst motorists also break traffic laws they're less likely to knowing that they can be easily identified and reported.

Alot of that tends to be highly area centric. In my area i dont see many experianced cyclists breaking the law. Speeding a bit and the ocasional stop sign yeh. I doubt many of us cyclist or motorist stop at 4 ways totaly when its compleatly obvious theres no other trafic. There are places where id never consider not stoping though. Theres a few places here where your a total moron if you try. In my area theres places where you just cant see very well even if you stop let alone if you dont. I have realy good eye site better than 20 20 at silver creek i can see through the breaks in the trees coming out of the upper parking lots at the stop sign and can easly tell if its safe to go or not. Even then i slow to a mear limp keeping just enough speed so that i dont need to shift down more than a gear or 2. This lets me keep going if safe or stop if its not As I aproach the stop i can see about 50 or so feet of the road way beyond the trees.
But in other places even i cant see.

So if your ever up there and see a guy on a bike looking in to the trees hes not day dreaming or blind its me checking for trafic heh.

It was funny couple higkers were looking in to the trees and asked what I seen I said well nothing in the trees. just a red pick up ford i think coming down the road. They just laughed and said oh just then it passed their expresions were prety funny.

[operator]

firemanrob = troll
next please.

[CPcyclist]

What is it with "cyclists" and stop signs? I work in an extremely high traffic area for cyclists and I have only seen about 10% at best obey traffic laws (Stops signs, passing laws, and even speeding!). Bicyclists should police themselves since Law enforcement apparently won't do it. You (the lawbreaking element of cycling) drive me to the point of cheering when I get dispatched to a "cyclist down". Very frustrating. If you leave your sense of entitlement at home, I may do the same. See you on the pavement.

I think you maybe exaggerating a little bit. From what I have seen I would say there are equal numbers on motorists and cyclist who break the law. Both sides need to learn respect for each other. I have a hard time believing that the law breaking is so one sided.

I know around here Cars tend to bully cyclist in to breaking to law.
I have been pushed through stop signs by big trucks.
I have been passed more often then I pass by car with inches between myself and the car.
I have been passed by cars while I am doing the speed limit.

I am with you on one point I would like to see the laws enforced much better related to cyclists and motorist/cyclist interactions.

I will leave my sense of entitlement at home the day Motorist do the same. IMO motorist have a much greater power in this equation and should show greater responsibility.

PS. I hope to never be looking up at you from the pavement.

[Roody]

What did the Hispanic fireman name his two sons?

[Az B]

What did the Hispanic fireman name his two sons?

Jose and FiremanRob.

Az

[firemanrob]

You didn't say that. You basically said it made you happy every time you got a call with a "cyclist down," and implicit in that statement, since you couldn't possibly know the circumstances where the cyclist was injured, that whether or not he was at fault was irrelevant. Frankly, if you wanted to vent you could do it with your fellow firemen. What you came here to do was pick a fight with people that you knew would not be sympathetic to your cause.

Tell you what. Why don't you buy a cheap bike and go on a few rides around your town. Get some perspective.


I just wanted to express my concerns to the people who are causing them. I can vent back and forth to my coworkers all day long (and I can tell you every one of them feels the same way I do!) but it won't do any good if the message never gets to the people who need to hear it. Just don't pass me on the right and let me go when it's my turn at the stop sign. Don't flip me off when you run a stop sign and I honk--it was your error. Conversely, I can admit that I have been in the wrong as far as right of way with cyclists, but I give a wave of apology and not a finger!

[Roody]

What did the Hispanic fireman name his two sons?
Jose and Hose-B.

[chipcom]

I don't stop at every Stop sign anymore. I used to when I was riding in Okinawa and cars were everywhere, but now all my riding is done on the rural highways of north Florida. There are many times when you can pull up to an intersection and not have a car in sight in any direction, and sometimes when you do see one he's so far away the Stop sign is irrelevent. So I ask you. What is the point in stopping under these circumstances?

If you are finding pleasure in the pain of others I suggest seeking professional help. The stress of your job may be getting to you.

Ahh Okinawa...ever spend time up in the main islands? I loved riding in Japan - cept when I had to bail off the road cuz two locals were driving side-by-side towards me, taking up all of a road that was barely wide enough for them. I didn't complain, I would have been in the wrong - it would have been rude to interupt their conversation! ;)

I don't come to a 'complete' stop for all stop signs, but I sure as hell slow enough to ensure that I can cross the intersection safely and come to that stop if I need to. I agree, coming to a complete stop each time, every time, makes no sense...the point is safety, not anal conformance - cept to those who are overly anal.

The OP does have a point when it comes to many who just fly through and disregard traffic laws, though they are obviously not reflective of all cyclists, as the OP insinuates. Just goes to show that the actions of the few reflect on the many. (wow, I just had a Spock moment).

[chipcom]

What is it with "cyclists" and stop signs? I work in an extremely high traffic area for cyclists and I have only seen about 10% at best obey traffic laws (Stops signs, passing laws, and even speeding!). Bicyclists should police themselves since Law enforcement apparently won't do it. You (the lawbreaking element of cycling) drive me to the point of cheering when I get dispatched to a "cyclist down". Very frustrating. If you leave your sense of entitlement at home, I may do the same. See you on the pavement.

So are you a rookie or still just a wannabe 'fireman'? Most experienced firefighters tend to know that sometimes it is better to just keep your trap shut and have folks think you a fool, rather than to open it and remove all doubt, as your post has.