Mountain Biking - XT vs. XTR

Discuss your opinions on the both

lighter, lightest
expensive, most expensive
works great, works great

That about sums it up.

lighter, lightest
expensive, most expensive
works great, works great

Lighter / Too light
Durable / Less durable
Works great for everyone / Works great if someone else is buying

lighter, lightest
expensive, most expensive
works great, works great

Agreed.

This is the same discussion as Ultegra v Dura Ace. Point is, why would you want to spend so much more when you're getting relatively much less than the previous upgrade (ie 105 to Ultegra, LX to XT)?

You'll note that I can be classified as biased by glancing over my rides' componentry, but I just don't see the point for paying for the extra R. High end Shimano stuff is ruddy good, and I guess I think of the very top end for those who are a) very wealthy; or b) sponsored by Shimano.

Just my £0.02.

Agreed.

This is the same discussion as Ultegra v Dura Ace. Point is, why would you want to spend so much more when you're getting relatively much less than the previous upgrade (ie 105 to Ultegra, LX to XT)?

You'll note that I can be classified as biased by glancing over my rides' componentry, but I just don't see the point for paying for the extra R. High end Shimano stuff is ruddy good, and I guess I think of the very top end for those who are a) very wealthy; or b) sponsored by Shimano.

Just my £0.02.
That post is worth a pint in my book. The highest I'd go on any of my bikes would be XT, (X-9) on a MTB or Ultegra for the road. Leave the race stuff to the wannabe's, sponsered riders, and the guys who have more money than brains

That post is worth a pint in my book. The highest I'd go on any of my bikes would be XT, (X-9) on a MTB or Ultegra for the road. Leave the race stuff to the wannabe's, sponsered riders, and the guys who have more money than brains

Thanks, Raiyn. I reckon the XT/X-9/Ultegra level is where the smart money is spent. Here's why: Shimano brag about the fact that Ultegra is "manufactured to the same level" as DA, and most of the componentry is interchangeable anyway. Paying for the name is exactly what you're doing by buying DA or XTR and when I see an Ult or XT bike I think "there's a smart rider, an enthusiast, a true lover and knowledgable rider" as opposed to "there's someone who's either a poseur, got a very fat wallet, has no idea about the sport or who is owned by a label".

If I was given DA, I'd ride it for sure. But I know what it feels like because I ride Ultegra. Same with XTR and XT.

I have the Princess' permission to spend up to $1,000/month on bikes stuff if I want. And I still won't bother with XTR. Geez, we took the XT/XTR off our tandem and replaced it with X9. To me, XTR is the equivalent of a turbo Corvette in NYC. You're just spending money, with no real benefit. Road gear is different, but there's still better places to spend your money when speccing a bike.

Road gear is different

How?!

How?!
Well, for one it doesn't take the beating that MTB components take. Beyond that I don't know.....



I am definately an Ultegra / XT man though.

The best deals I have seen on cycling right now are getting older XT/LX components and 9 speed ultegra/105 components at deep discounts.

I can't imagine having anything just work better than the XT/Ultegra level. I think above that all you are getting is shinier bits

XT is the best bang for the buck. XTR is nice if you can get it CHEAP (Ebay, etc.). All my bikes run XTR, but it took several months of careful shopping to get the components. In the end, I got a lot of XTR stuff for below the cost of XT's price - but you need to be patient and seek out the deals.

XTR is lighter. If that is your only goal, then there is no substitute IMO. I have not had the durability problems with XTR like some others have, and I race hard and often (and I'm not sponsored by Shimano, either). My shifts are still crisp after thousands of miles. My crankset is still smooth and the teeth still robust. And nothing beats the smoothness of XTR trigger shifters - even if it means 2:1 actuation.

i would go all out for XTR.. lightest,best and the owner in the bike shop offered me a 40% discount because he wanted to clear all the stocks he had for next year..

It's funny when people are talking about bikes and not buying the high end components but when it comes to buying TV's, SUV's, ATV's, boats, etc. you don't think twice about buying the best money can buy. If that's how you think than why not just buy a $10,000 car instead of that $30,000 SUV? Granted there are a few that need a SUV for pulling that expensive boat or 4 runners but realistically most could get by with a low end car. I don't smoke, drink, max out my credit cards, have any car payments so I can afford that XTR bike. At least with biking you get more bang for your buck with the exercise you get. I also shop like shane45.

What's the main difference between XT and LX? Is it definitely worth the jump in price?

What's the main difference between XT and LX? Is it definitely worth the jump in price?

IMO, yes. The differences in durability/reliability/adjustability are more apparent than the jump from XT to XTR.

It's funny when people are talking about bikes and not buying the high end components but when it comes to buying TV's, SUV's, ATV's, boats, etc. you don't think twice about buying the best money can buy.

I don't think that is the case at all. People apply value/price judgements to all things they buy. Especially the big ticket items like Cars, Boats, Etc..........

Now , people spend a disproportionate amount of their money on crap like you mentioned above, but that is a different issue altogether.


I have XT / Ultegra

Why?

what is the point of XT/DA if you are not racing? Where is the added functionality? My XT / Ultegra stuff works flawlessly. How do you improve on flawless functionality? I even race :eek: with XT/ Ultegra. It hasn't broken yet. It might have cuased me to finish 10th instead of 9th. So be it. I will blame my lungs more than my components.

It is lighter and shinier and that is it. That is what you get for your extra money.

what is the point of XT/DA if you are not racing? ... It is lighter and shinier and that is it.

I don't buy that reasoning. We'd all be driving Yugo's if that were the case. I don't need to be a racer to appreciate and desire a Ferrari.

There is also something called "pride of ownership" and the knowledge that certain components are hand assembled and tuned to a better level of fit, finish and functionality - rather than mass-produced.

I find it kind of sad that some of you would consider a non-sponsored rider with XTR or DA a "wannabe" or unknowledgeable. Sometimes good deals can arise making it worthwhile for the rider. My old GT was full XTR because I bought the components for a good price (at the time they were the same price as XT). My track bike is DA and Campy Record... does that make me a "wannabe"?
Also, since I come from the modified car world (BMWs), why is it so looked down upon to want/have the best parts? I just don't understand why there is so much hostility and so many judgements passed on this board. Beware - some of these "wannabes" might just whoop your ass on the trail :)
Rob

I find it kind of sad that some of you would consider a non-sponsored rider with XTR or DA a "wannabe" or unknowledgeable.

Amen, bro.

I work hard for my money. I don't piss it away frivilously. I do my research. I hang with other good riders. I learn from my experiences - and those of others I trust. I have the option to spend my money where I desire. Therefore, there must be some value of XTR (to me) or it wouldn't be on any of my rigs.

I don't buy that reasoning. We'd all be driving Yugo's if that were the case. I don't need to be a racer to appreciate and desire a Ferrari..
No, but you need to be a racer to need a ferrari. My argument was who needs DA/XTR


There is also something called "pride of ownership" and the knowledge that certain components are hand assembled and tuned to a better level of fit, finish and functionality - rather than mass-produced.

Ok, I granted before that they are shinier (your finish comment above) . How is it more functional?

How does XTR 'fit' better than XT?
XTR/DA is not mass produced?
We are not talking about a custom frame here, just components.

I am not saying that having XTR make you a poser or some other thing. that is as ******** as someone putting down someone who has deore on their bike. I just don't see the added benefit outweighing the costs.


I have the option to spend my money where I desire. Therefore, there must be some value of XTR (to me) or it wouldn't be on any of my rigs.

What is that value? I guess that would be my question.

Making sure others are aware of your ultimate financial commitment to your bike?

I just don't see the added benefit outweighing the costs.


Right - but I do. That's really all that matters. :)
Again, smart shopping will get you XTR components below XT cost, in some cases.





Making sure others are aware of your ultimate financial commitment to your bike?
:rolleyes:

Right - but I do.

but what is it? It might be valuable to the OP.


Again, smart shopping will get you XTR components below XT cost, in some cases.


What , smart shopping only applies to XTR components?

Just as many, or more, deals for XT components exist.

Both stink, go Singlespeed.

No, but you need to be a racer to need a ferrari. My argument was who needs DA/XTR

Who needs XT? LX will get the same job done won't it? XT may get the job done a bit more smoothly, but LX will still get the same exact job (shifting gears) done. Let's not get caught up in need arguments here. None of us need to bike at all.



Making sure others are aware of your ultimate financial commitment to your bike?

Go ride your XT. Why would you care about how much money someone spends on their bike? I'm still running Deore crap. I don't care it someone bucks up significantly more cash for a slight improvement in function. That person's value judgement is different than yours. Who cares? BTW, I can afford XT, but for my skill level, it doesn't make sense yet. When it does, I'll buck up.

Who knows, someone running XTR might deem it's added value above XT great enough to forego Budweiser so they can afford it. Just because you don't think it's worth it doesn't mean it isn't to someone else.

Who needs XT? LX will get the same job done won't it? XT may get the job done a bit more smoothly, but LX will still get the same exact job (shifting gears) done. Let's not get caught up in need arguments here. None of us need to bike at all.
OK to summarize;

Upgrade from LX to XT what do you get ? Stronger, More durable, Lighter

Upgrade from XT to XTR what do you get? Lighter and shinier, some would argue less durable (I won't).


Go ride your XT. Why would you care about how much money someone spends on their bike?

I wish I could go ride my XT It has been raining for 6 days straight so I can't. the trails are under water.

I don't care how much people spend on their bikes. I just wonder why it is so hard for people to admit that XTR is just bike jewelry. Spend all you want. Just don't tell me that XTR is 'worth it' for some functional reason.

I just wonder why it is so hard for people to admit that XTR is just bike jewerly.

Look - my XTR logos are buried under mud and dirt most of the time, so don't give me that crap about it being jewellery. I'm the only one that knows it's there, for the most part. I don't put it there to be admired. I don't put it there to be cool or fashionable. I don't put it there because I'm sponsored.

I put it there because:

a) I can afford it.
b) It makes me faster.
c) It makes me smoother.
d) I have no reliability issues at all with it - IT WORKS.
e) I do not find XT front derailleurs anywhere near the quality and functionality of XTR. The XT cage design sucks (FOR ME.)
f) I can feel a difference between XT and XTR with regards to smoothness of shifts.
g) It's my bike and it feels right FOR ME.

Why don't you start ragging on people that prefer a different level of fork quality - or frame type - or paint color? Why? Because it's all relative and highly subjective. What works for me, may not work for you. Don't criticize my bikes however, especially since you've never rode them.

I don't care how much people spend on their bikes. I just wonder why it is so hard for people to admit that XTR is just bike jewelry. Spend all you want. Just don't tell me that XTR is 'worth it' for some functional reason.

YES!


In all fairness, I didn't say ALL those with DA or XTR are unknowledgable. I was just making the observation that some people who are unknowledgable do buy the top end products without just cause.

It's nothing to do with me how anyone spends their money - I'd obviously never think it was - I just think that it's not worth the extra 75% cost for a marginal performance benefit.

Oh, and to the chap who said that he prefers his components "handmade" with the extra-quality finish, I really hate to pee on his parade but WAKE UP!!! DA and XTR isn't handmade! It's made to the exact specs of XT and Ultegra! IT EVEN SAYS SO IN ALL THE SHIMANO LITERATURE!

I'd love XTR and DA, I really would. But only because it's got the badge on it, not because of performance benefits. I just hate the way it's priced to be elitist when the technology clearly costs so much less. And that doesn't mean I'd love my rides any more with that componentry on them. It's not possible.

Some of you folks are so judgemental, I swear.

Yeah, I have some XTR stuff...in fact, some of it dates back to 1997 and still functions just fine, thank you.

The difference is that I really don't give a rat's ass if someone is riding XT (or Deore, or a rigid fork, or a recumbent, whatever) as long as they're enjoying it.

I get my gear at dealer cost, does that make me less of an idiot than those who buy XT at retail?

heres the deal.. if someone has extra money.. then whats wrong with XTR, if your looking for something thats budget yet good.. then XT is the best option.. just because someone is on XTR does not make him a wannbe.. he just wants the best money can buy.. someone on XT is someone who wants value for money.. but someone on XTR has the best money can buy.. value for money and best are 2 different things..

I'll just point out that you don't "Need" XTR to be a better rider, and having it certainly won't make you a better rider.

What really irks me is that some guys think everyone should have XTR. More than one girl from the club I used to ride with (NRMB) would be advised by co-workers and shop employees that they needed to look only at XTR equipped bikes. At least the women were smart enough to figure out that there's more to a bike than just the group. One of the girls (a spin class junkie, apparently) rode a flourescent green, 1980's Diamond Back. Full rigid, ancient LX thumbies, cantilever brakes with pads hard as a rock. Valerie, a lovely UCLA nurse, would out-climb nearly everyone, and scream all the way down the hills. Rather humbling.

I'll just point out that you don't "Need" XTR to be a better rider, and having it certainly won't make you a better rider.

Well, of course not. Just like you don't need LX over Deore to be a better rider. It's not about the bike. I didn't see anyone on this thread claiming that. Put any good biker on a rigid bike with old, but functional equipment and they will smoke a poser on XTR any day. But at the end of the day when that expert wants to go back and ride his/her XTR equipped bike, so be it. Not everyone that has XTR is a poser. Probably not even half. Are "posers" not found with all groups of drive train? Or, are they no longer posers when the have a less expensive group?

What really irks me is that some guys think everyone should have XTR. More than one girl from the club I used to ride with (NRMB) would be advised by co-workers and shop employees that they needed to look only at XTR equipped bikes. At least the women were smart enough to figure out that there's more to a bike than just the group. One of the girls (a spin class junkie, apparently) rode a flourescent green, 1980's Diamond Back. Full rigid, ancient LX thumbies, cantilever brakes with pads hard as a rock. Valerie, a lovely UCLA nurse, would out-climb nearly everyone, and scream all the way down the hills. Rather humbling.

That is simply stupid. Anyone can buy whatever pleases them for sure but unless you are a pro and are making a living out of riding a bike you don't "need" any particular level of group. If riding XT makes you ride more, lover your bike more, or whatever, fine, more power to you.

Personally I have XT because I got the whole group cheap when I was building my bike but feel that even XT is more than what I actually needed. I have not interest whatsoever to go beyond XT.

IMO LX is more than enough (at least for my level of skill) and is probably the best value “for me”. What LX lacks is the glamour of XT/XTR but for most amateurs it is clearly enough. Heck I will go farther and say that Deore is all someone like me needs. Deore is as far as I go down the line though.

Discuss your opinions on the both

I think the original point of the thread has been overwhelmed by a number of, frankly, irrelevant sub-points.

I would like to apologise to Dirtjumper66 for corporately hijacking the thread and turning it into some sort of slanging match between XT- and XTR-users.

The thread is seriously mis-guided now, and I would like to say that I never meant to offend any XTR-user, any XT-user or even any LX- or Deore- or Acera-user. My original point was that I use XT because it works very very well. I don't need anything better than it, and I don't think XTR represents enough of a performance advantage to warrant paying the extra for it.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is not wrong. I didn't mean it to sound like that at all.

So can we all please concentrate on our (seperate!) opinions of XT and XTR?

Cheers fellas. :)

I run all XT except LX shifters and I love the setup. XT is SO much better than Deore, its amazing. If I were to build a MTB i would run XT hands down.

i still run acera front and rear, but i've just recently upgraded my altus shifters/levers to alivio shifters and deore LX levers (temporarily until i get my speed dial ti's), and they're good enough for me. the shifts are precise, no ghost shifts yet, they're fine for the riding i do... when my derailleurs finally do break, i'll probably upgrade to used deore just for cheap and functionality... to me, they shift fine, so i'm happy. i don't need XT or XTR, i use what works well.

in other words, i'm a poor bastard and you should all pitch in money to buy me a full XT group you rich *******s :D

in other words, i'm a poor bastard and you should all pitch in money to buy me a full XT group you rich *******s :D

Here's a dollar, now shut up. :rolleyes: Just kidding. There are so many good deals on ebay for new and used gear, you should be able to upgrade pretty easily. If you sock away a few bucks, and then just search 2 or 3 days a week, the opportunity will present itself. Take-offs from new bikes will be your best friend.

i still run acera front and rear, but i've just recently upgraded my altus shifters/levers to alivio shifters and deore LX levers (temporarily until i get my speed dial ti's), and they're good enough for me. the shifts are precise, no ghost shifts yet, they're fine for the riding i do... when my derailleurs finally do break, i'll probably upgrade to used deore just for cheap and functionality... to me, they shift fine, so i'm happy. i don't need XT or XTR, i use what works well.

in other words, i'm a poor bastard and you should all pitch in money to buy me a full XT group you rich *******s :D


Do the right thing. Go singlespeed.

i will next summer.

when i get a bmx.

i will next summer.

when i get a bmx.

Your riding skills will thank you in a year if you go singlespeed now.

dude i know how to ride singlespeed. hell on my bike i only use 3 speeds really. 2-3, 2-5, 2-7.

normally 2-5 anyways (i dont shift very often) so i'm just about singlespeeding anyways.

Ok, XT vs XTR. I've never like the M960/965 levers, and I never will. The M952 levers look like the M750 levers, and for the 158g weight saving, you're paying about an 80% premium. At the dealer level, that works out to 50 cents a gram.

Functionally, there's more to the debate than just the levers. Cable routing, quality, adjustment, and cleanliness all play a big role in shifting performance. All shifters require the connection from the lever to the derailleur to be in good working order, otherwise you've just wasted a wad of cash.

Without getting into the rapid rise debate, I'll point out that for years, the XTR rear derailleur has been the gold standard for road and MTB tandems. It stands up well to the power of 2 people, and shifts smoothly on a bike where the standard rear derailleur cable is 3000mm long, instead of the usual 1700mm. Front derailleurs have such a simple job, there's no reason to take one over the other. New bikes even spec the FD one step lower than the RD, simply because it saves a few bucks, without affecting performance.

On to the other bits now. Cranks are purely a matter of personal choice. Shimano copped some bad press for cranks that were hard to service, or had bad seals. It's my opinion that cranks are one of the parts you should rarely have to think about, once they're installed. As far as brakes, it's not usually XT vs XTR. I'm sure the choice is more often between Shimano and every other brand, so I won't offer opinion there.

p.s. Kona, the only bike I ever raced was a single speed.

The whole point of this topic was to let people figure out of XT or XTR was right for them and if it was really worth it to pay the extra money for the XTR my opologies to anyone that was offended or upset about the topic.

The whole point of this topic was to let people figure out of XT or XTR was right for them and if it was really worth it to pay the extra money for the XTR my opologies to anyone that was offended or upset about the topic.

No need to appologize.

Your riding skills will thank you in a year if you go singlespeed now.

So says the "mountain biker" who recently "discovered" being able to sit while climbing.

This forum is a laugh a minute.

So says the "mountain biker" who recently "discovered" being able to sit while climbing.

This forum is a laugh a minute.



Chill dude. I've been mountain biking for years, and I still "discover" new things / techniques just about every time I ride.

Glad you're perfect and we make you laugh, however. What's your NORBA ranking, by the way?

So says the "mountain biker" who recently "discovered" being able to sit while climbing.

This forum is a laugh a minute.

I've known that I have been able to sit while climbing, I have climbed while seated when the bike was geared. I'm more known for my DH abilities than I will ever be climbing, I'm enjoying climbs now, but I'm still slow on them, I've always been slow on the climbs and always will be slow on the climbs. I've accepted that, not all mountain bikers are the same.

Absolutly right! The funny thing with MTBing as opposed to road riding is that your MTB rig gets crashed all the time. Why anyone who doesnt race would put XTR on a bike that gets crashed all the time is a mystery to me. They both, (xt/xtr) for MTBing and for the road (Ultegra/ DA) are functionally equivilent (and the weight difference is miniscule). I personally have XT on my mtb and Ultegra on my roadie. I would upgrade my roadie to DA over Ultegra if I had money to just throw away but for aesthetic reasons only. I like Ultegra but the DA stuff is so pretty, and there is nothing like a pretty road bike. Its like looking at a pretty woman.

Phew! What a relief. I feel good about having XT stuff on my 1st new bike =)

So says the "mountain biker" who recently "discovered" being able to sit while climbing.

This forum is a laugh a minute.


I've been hitting it hard for over 20 years and will be the first to admit I'm still learning.

Both stink, go Singlespeed.single-speed bikes still use brakes ,bottom brackets and cranks .:D